Conversation 679-015

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You were going to wait until after the Florida primary.

I thought it would be better to take that down today.

I just suggested and said that I would make a much deliberating decision.

uh because he's not going to announce his decision because he doesn't want to

the Florida primary, or because I'm going to have a decision to be influenced by it.

But it will be Monday, I think you can say, Monday the President makes a decision.

Monday the President, yeah.

So I have to honor the Florida primary, but he said I was not going to be influenced by it, or he didn't know what he was going to say.

So that ought to be considered a national problem.

People in Florida are going to price themselves on a national problem.

It would be of no interest to me.

But do you consider this a major national problem?

I think it is one you can rest in.

I think if you could get across even more, it would be a great thing to do.

I didn't go further than say that the President was trying to find a medium of money to find a decision to do that.

Okay.

I think that's what I'm saying.

I did not want to have any indication about what it would be like to destroy a prime minister.

And that's why I did it today.

I don't know what it is.

Time is bad.

Headline of the start of the night is sickness at poking bottom.

Yeah.

The State Department was to take a sunset on it, but I thought this humiliation would be long for another 20 years.

I could get out tomorrow and send them to the level corner service officer.

The ground was worse now than many times since the days of McCarthy's witch hunts at another anguillette.

They were both speaking of the way the next administration has devoted the State Department to help the region make the U.S. foreign policy making for most areas.

But does it matter?

Does it matter that Secretary of State Whitmerge did not attend the President's meeting with legendary Chairman Mao?

Or that Henry Kissinger, who did, has set up a little State Department in the White House?

On the top floor of the State Department, there lies an emphatic note of Rodgers and his chief aide, Erwin Booker, saw spoken by many quite likeable men, first and foremost, all of the members of the team.

I don't have a hand paper here where you can see it.

I just thought you'd probably have seen it.

All right.

For them, this is pretty good from their viewpoint.

For them, events that matter more than the parochial malaise of talking about what's hand-wringing her teens are the real achievements of Nixon's own foreign policy.

First question ought to be whether the system's working well overall for the nation's center of interest.

Okay.

So, what do you think?

What do you think?

Senator Roberts, there's a question.

There's a question.

And it's 5632.

It didn't go out this night, but there were 53's that went through once.

And also there were just two that went down.

They say that the headlines, they're releasing Thursday, the headline would be, President's Popularity Now Highest Rating in 14 Months.

They also included in the release the question, how effective do you think President Nixon's trip to China will be in terms of improving world peace?

Very effective 18, very effective 50, not at all 24 out of 28.

Ours is higher than yours.

Well, we just put it exactly that way.

Yeah.

We asked a better question.

That's still a pretty good, pretty good answer.

68 affected.

We were saying not at all.

We dropped the bottle guard. 20.

5% that sort of didn't think it was going to be mature.

Well, all in all, in a way, knowing, as we do, that it did go up probably more than they're saying, it's just as well that they're not saying it as long as they say it's going up.

Yeah, our show is 59 and 28, which is quite a spread, isn't it?

Yeah.

Well, it's three points, which is still more than this study.

No, they're actually three point different from them.

No, but when you take the disapproved, you know, you've got to add up to it.

You've got, you see, I was in 28, and they got 32 disapproved, so it's four plus three, right?

Correct?

Yeah.

It's still good.

I'm surprised they don't show it more than that.

I mean, it's a good day to...

53, do we have to do it?

57, 58, 59?

Rob, in that back of your list, you've got a lot of these gallops that are playing some games.

It's basically what he finds.

Although I think ours is pretty close.

We want to remember 50 stations where he had this before the loss.

That's what he had.

That's right.

Ours went right back to where it was before the loss and so it is.

Yeah.

Of course there are problems.

You just got to sort of hold this ballpark above it.

Above it.

We can't market it.

We can shake 23, almost 23 million shares.

It's all 330.

All the indicators, all the stories are, you know, the indicators, better or not.

Tomorrow, we have to release the executive order on security classification.

All right?

We're going to open the conference on it, because they started writing something there.

All right.

Fine.

Question.

They're recommending a signing ceremony with the heads of state, the men's justice, CIA, HGNC.

To sign an executive order is kind of a monkey thing.

I don't like signing ceremonies, so they're not going to do that.

They'll go out and they can, you know, I mean, we'll just sign it and they can drink one, you know, there won't be no signing ceremony.

I think you get, no, we're doing that, you know, it's just, that's back to the old way, we're not doing that.

You know, I think the golf is flying around these days.

What are the economic pressures that I realize, you know, there's temperatures that go up or down.

I mean, we look at a lot of standards, and I support some of those.

And the debt economy's been concerned about that.

After all we did last year, we didn't go above 50%.

Well, now we have.

See, many missed that story when we took off in China.

I think you're down to 53%, don't you think so?

You got that moved and you got... this shows her going on up rather than any backing off or holding, so you have something there.

It is what it is.

As I said, it's like the glass pearl.

I don't think it is either, but it may be.

It may be by some nutrition.

No, it isn't.

It isn't, but because of the Harris analysis.

I read that paragraph you referred to.

The Harris analysis is anywhere near the mark.

We'll have this region on the 13th.

You can't do that.

I do feel this, we find an awful lot of intelligent people

I mean, who I had to do to be cool for this trip, would you not say so?

Yes, we were on set all the time.

The leadership, we had a lot of people, and if you haven't, if it was good for our own people, except for the nuts on the right, there was a lot of enthusiasm, a lot of pride, and a lot of anything that stimulated the troops.

Proud of our people and that sort of thing.

and that's it between 65 and 70 that's see that's why we've got to stand i guess

Maybe they just wouldn't believe it until we put ours on, but we did about 60%.

They've done too many other polls.

The Becker poll at the end came out.

Becker showed about 65, 65, I don't know, just a little more than that.

But the Manchester paper showed 55, and the Becker showed 65.

But what do you believe?

Did he show 65 or did he show 65?

He showed 65.

I guess it came up to 69, didn't it?

That's right.

That's why he went up again.

Because he hit two bolts at the end.

No, because... No, because I think he could get this through.

I just don't see how McCloskey, after all that work, could do less than 20.

And I think Wolves is over here at 10.

That's my theory.

So that's 30.

So if you get a little bit above that, you've got 32.

And also you've got to remember, there are people who vote.

The question is, who else?

You see my point?

That's right.

And the other fact you have to have in mind, the term that our people out there say, well, nobody's going to win anyway, and I don't need to vote.

I hope that doesn't mean anything else that I'm about.

That's another factor that these polls are not measuring.

All right.

That's the one thing that might hurt musketeers, regarding the actual boat.

And musketeers may not have a boat, but they're going to have a boat.

Yeah.

Well, all we know is that we've got to hold on to the train, then, and musketeers can finish.

Because, Bob, if we get 65, we've done all right.

What's your grade?

Sure.

I didn't think it was a 60.

I had it on.

Anybody want to test it on a 60-12?

It's a 69.

I think this one's a 69 or something.

What about the tracks?

The others?

I picked on them somewhere.

I don't understand them.

It's a 3-3-3-3-5.

Sure.

Okay.

Two dollars.

It's a problem.

And it's a problem really for the administration because it seems to be so necessary.

The foreign policy, you know, in your administration is, by every extension, it doesn't go very well.

And there just shouldn't be this difficulty.

I'm not sure how to direct it, but I'm prepared to do anything that will be helpful to you.

I don't think it's a good thing, and I don't think it's necessary.

I think that as far as we are concerned, and I'm concerned, most of the things we've done have been done successfully under your leadership.

And we have some things that we deserve more.

Well, it's pretty close.

It's pretty close.

And I think what has happened now, as a result of the chamber chat and a few other things, there is a feeling that it isn't working as far as I'm concerned, as far as the State Department is concerned.

As Bob and I talked, it may well be that 500 is the full estate of 500.

And I don't wholly agree with the people who have been playing about morale.

And I said that because I didn't want to put out such a last problem.

But this, the thing that happened in China, was really an imminent trial in China by all the reporters who were there, without exception.

and other things, and there are stories, in fact, that the Chinese themselves told the press that, that there is some split between the U.S. and the paper, and it's in both, I guess it's in both, Time and Newsweek and so forth.

So I think from your standpoint that we ought to try to correct it somehow.

I have a feeling, based on the mail that I get, that I can be a tremendous, well at least not tremendous, but I can be a sun doctor in the campaign.

And the things that I do where I seem to get tremendously good responses, and I could be wrong about it, but in checking my mail, for example, it's always there.

It's favorable with young people and with young students and so forth.

I'm not sure if there's anything that will be helpful to you.

What do you think is, what do you think is the, when you say what can be done, you know, the, I suppose the,

I don't think we can do anything about the significant other.

It's just part of the course.

They cut up Dulles.

They cut up Rusk.

And basically they didn't cut them up because they were trying to cut up the administration.

It was really horrifying.

The State Department bureaucracy didn't tell us to piss before we died.

I was out there throwing the cake.

But they were opposed to Dulles and his policies and Eisenhower and his policies.

So I think you just, as far as that is concerned, we can talk about discipline and all that sort of thing.

We can keep, I mean you'll have no problem with Burwell, you won't have any problem with your top M.O.I.T.s, but I think people there, well I know we're having, we have a similar problem on A.G.W.

and I was talking about it earlier this morning.

So I expect the busing thing, we might get some reservations.

Mr. President, I don't think it's quite the same, Mr. President.

I think that they support you.

At least they support your policies, and I think they support me.

And things are going pretty well, at least until the China trip.

I think that they do feel hurt, more than anything else, by the feeling that we don't trust them.

You take a fellow like Marshall Green, you don't really witness his health.

He's doing a hell of a good job out there, huh?

I think Joe Sisco is an exceptionally capable fellow.

I think my fellow man is tops.

I think Newsom and Astor's the best we've ever had.

He's supported the position on Southern Africa and on Golo and so forth.

I don't believe that it's the same as...

I'm not talking about the way they're putting that down the line.

I think that's the problem.

What could be done?

Because the stories they put out down the line, they think they're talking to the State Department for what they're doing.

If they are, I think they're putting that out as an help.

I mean, they're probably embarrassing to the Secretary.

They're embarrassing to the people.

I don't think I'm going to do something like that.

I don't think she's the right to seize upon any kind of an inspiration.

I understand that.

When they have a difference of view, they just love to go out and talk and babble around at the cocktail parties, and it gets them the very press.

But I don't think that you're in control of this.

He said, I'm trying to die, and I feel the same, too.

But I do think that we do have a problem.

We have a lot of some people who don't like submission.

So I think the real, that's what I'm trying to answer the question, how do we overcome?

So that's one of the things to do is to do our very best.

I thank you for being aware of the problems that might be here.

This is not Mark's son.

This is my mother's name.

This is Eddie.

My mother was born.

Eddie, my older brother, died.

So, we ought to be able to, we ought to be able to work on the system.

I mean, basically, communication and so forth and so on, so that we can build from this.

The story of this clown and the star and I will be making this thing.

And you know, you should be able to find out where he is.

But the point is that, uh,

I will handle it.

I press things.

And this Thursday, I'll be in the office.

And I want to be on the other side of the system.

And every second that I'll be...

I think I should say, too, that one of the problems I have now is that there don't really

So they want to come in the way of us.

And you can see that in all the traffic.

They say this doesn't make a difference.

And that's important because it breaks our ability to

to conduct foreign affairs.

Most of what we do is implementing the cost.

It's just rash.

Green is doing it very well.

But if we send Martin Green around, the word is that he won't do anything.

And then I'm satisfied.

I can see them all, and I said I didn't appreciate your impression.

I said, well, I agree, and I said, I'm talking to you.

You're exactly what the situation was, and I said, yeah.

I said, I just wanted to know about the case, but whether that was a very casual one.

I wouldn't say I was pretty on the left.

I probably decided not to take it.

Well, I think that because of this thing, maybe tell a lot of stories.

I see.

Well, there might be this, too.

It might be that if you go now, you're going to be on the left.

That's right.

That's the fact that there's some opposition.

I think it's...

serious to the generalised preferences for political reasons in the organisation, and so I'm not concerned we can delay that, but...

I've got a couple of comments to make, John, if we can't do it now.

If we, uh...

The important thing really is to win the election and all these other things.

Let me ask you this.

Is there any reason to be now left in America?

They don't think there's a common goal, don't you?

Right.

Oh, there's nothing else in the foreign policy area that comes up except those of the candidates, is that correct?

We don't have the dates up, and we've got to question our OAS on the middle of that.

The OAS?

Yeah, one we were going to go turns out to be when the OAS is here.

Well, of course, one thing is that...

The OAS is just ambassadors, isn't it?

Yeah.

No.

I won't be here.

No, the point of this is... Oh, the point of this is...

So you have to be here for that whole thing.

You don't think I should have to do that to you?

Well, yes.

I think I gave him a dinner.

Why is it such a... What I thought I'd do on that, Mr. President, is take him down to Mount Vernon for lunch.

And then if we still have the boat, is it still in Sequoia?

Yeah.

If I was today, it would be right in the middle of April or something.

Oh yeah, it would be right in the middle of April.

And then if you could have a dinner for them, just give them a toast and we'd have to have a speech.

There's nothing much to say to them about the problem.

Yeah.

That's a big box.

They start at 11 to 15, but we can go to California earlier, which is probably the thing you do.

Let me see.

What Art says is it starts Tuesday the 11th and runs through Saturday the 15th.

Well, uh, I don't have to get into the names of what I've said yet.

Well, but I was planning to be back in California anyway for that time.

Well, not unless, unless you go around and you think you'll have a press thing on the 12th.

Right.

And then, then we were talking with Canada on the way back the 13th at 5. 5.

That it would be gone then for the OAS.

No, it would be back to the head of the country.

Or the night of the 14th.

Well, see what I mean?

The last day everyone should be given anyway.

Sure.

I think you're right.

It may look like a sort of final thought.

One thing that would be helpful, I think, and I don't think it's important,

How do we do it?

We need to make it clear that I'm going to be in charge of the Moscow visit.

We can run it any way we want to, and obviously the White House staff should do the preparation because it's just as interesting as it is in China.

But I think that, first place, one of the principal subjects will be the Middle East, and one of the principal subjects will be the European Security Conference.

both of which I think he picked up.

And if there was some way either to have

It probably wouldn't work for me to go in advance, although it's a possibility.

Or to have someone like Martin Miller-Grenko or Al Haig or somebody so that we're, you know, paid in on it.

You know, we don't plan to have, uh, we're not planning any advance.

We haven't had any advance in this case.

We didn't plan to have any go, uh, and it's just a...

Yeah.

Despite the other trips of coffee, or we had, like, European trips, because that's the issue, because we had diplomatic relations.

No.

Just the advance thing, though.

Just the advance thing.

Which is what we've done.

On the other hand, because of diplomatic relations, we've done, on all of them, we've always avoided, on the advance, any...

...substantive contact with the other government.

All the contact has been at the protocol office and down.

We have sent communication security and we've sent... ...we've sent to take you this advance.

At this instance, we would send an advance, I presume.

No, no, I think I did the... Oh, we did the China advance as long as we could.

What's his name?

Sokka?

I don't know.

I don't know if they're military or anything.

Ron.

Oh, Ron Walker?

Yeah.

Well, he didn't kill himself, but we were thinking of that.

Well, I tell you how many we could possibly kill.

the planning of the Moscow message that we're really talking about.

Let me get some thoughts on how we could do that in terms of getting the thing .

If you, of course, know, you will not have the problem.

Of course, you were in Moscow for one night, and I was.

We will not have the problem at all.

The problem will be in .

In China, in Moscow it can be as tight as speaking.

I mean, you just look in there and there's, God, if you think of Chinese or Japanese or Chinese, Moscow is the worst.

For one thing, I do not want to stay in the Russian guesthouse.

I'm going to stay in the embassy.

The embassy is a visit, but there's been no agreements or any of that sort of thing.

They raised the subject.

Uh, no, we haven't got any of these.

Yesterday, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they,

I'd rather get away with that, though, because you said the Gettocks in Romania and Gettocks in Romania are the finals, so you had those two there, yeah.

If I can speak with that, yes, I can.

The embassy is also a secure one for you to talk to.

I mean, you've got to go in for a treat.

Right.

I think that this might be a good practice.

Now, you've heard my day of talking to hospitals.

This is my day.

I'm sure it's fine for you.

Let's see.

But on Moscow, you don't have a problem because you see, as you know, there, the

the whole, the whole, the plenary sessions and so forth, they have collective leadership with Brecht at the family table, and he is the leader, rather than the case of China.

Mao is not, he is the figure, the legendary, but the other guy is the leader.

And so as far as Brezhnev is concerned, in fact, I'm not even sure that they will be meeting together.

Maybe, for example, one thing that could work out would be a statement on the counterpart thing that you might meet with Mr. Seaton

But I think we have a very good effect.

I don't know.

It seems to me that either one, I don't know.

I doubt.

From what little I had read about other visitors there, Brown, for example, said he saw them at a sacrament wedding.

He apparently had a long talk with Brezhnev, and I supposed to see him there.

I said, no, I saw him at a sacrament wedding.

You might check this out to see how they treat the other sex, but there's no problem at all on Kamala's position.

His impression is that we probably have a heel given to him, I think.

Even though he is, he'd be just like, what is his title?

I think you just called the chairman of the party.

The point is that he, like I said, is the head of government, and I am confident that from what I have heard, the president will be the host.

And also, we can arrange, we have one other, it's very, very different.

We have possibly subject matter that is actually broken down in a way that's... We've had some in China, but as you know, they're not the same distance than what you think of the huge trade baggage that they're going about.

Not just trade, but trade, the...

grains in that area.

Then, of course, we're getting more and more subject to things, things like committees, things like the, like the European, the European Congress, things like, well, in the NYC we can't discuss salt possibly.

But there's a, there's a, there are quite a few subjects that vary, that vary, of course, and it will be one where I would assume

We would have substantive announcements to make during the course of the visit, rather than waiting until the end.

Yes, but we were doing a lot of work on this money bill, and it's having a whole study to do with it.

I thought the meeting was a matter of adjournment.

No, no.

Yes, sir.

Well, I haven't talked to him, but I have a chance to talk to you.

Well, let me just finish.

He is doing good work on it.

Five years ago, he just had a recommendation.

I said, fine, but... Well, I haven't talked to him.

I really want to talk to him.

I feel like there's a way to go after Russia.

All right.

He's a good man, but I think you may want to change after the election.

And I think that's...

Well, we've got a good man here that I think we ought to fill in.

Well, coming back to this, I would like, if you could work it out, to get the word out that I'm planning the topic to supervise the Soviet trip.

We'll do it just the same way.

I'll work closely with Henry.

But I think what Henry talks is really what he does.

He tells everybody what you say and what Henry says.

So the word gets out.

That's right.

What I'm saying is that I literally am not going to see the ring until much, until very, very close, well, shall we say, until I can reach the board and see what the situation is, because I know how he operates.

Go ahead.

Well, if you could say, for example, in some public stations that I was working,

and supervising the planning for the trip, in cooperation with the NSC staff and so forth, will do it just the same way, but that type of thing, because the impression is created in the press that we are just told after everything is completed, we're cut out of it.

And that's the part that's painful, as far as the difficulty, the difficulty of areas of the, uh, at, uh...

If you say to him, don't do it, it's going to be... Well, the planning thing has to be done from here.

Because, you know, we've got to...

It's got to be done from here because of the, you know... Well, what do you mean by that?

I'm not talking about the logistics of it.

I just, I don't understand why...

It seems to me that downgrade, rather than building up, that the way the trips have been conducted in the past is the way this trip ought to be conducted.

and that you as Secretary, just as Henry has said, and everything he's put out, his backgrounder, his off-the-record one, and everything else, that he consulted with you and with the President on each item of the agenda, got his instructions, and then went back to this Deputy Foreign Minister guy and did the drafting and all that, that that's the role you want to be in, and that you're in the position of...

being a principal in this thing rather than in the position of being a guy doing the background work.

The State Department should be working with the NSC at a staff level in getting the background materials together, which they do.

You're going to run into an unbelievable thing, though, that's going to be hard to sell, it seems to me, if you get into trying to present this as being done in a different way than other trips, where you've got a position that's a brand.

If you go on the basis that all the trips, including the train thing, ought to be shot down on the basis that it was no different than any other.

You always, when you travel with the person, you don't always travel with them.

Well, I mean, it's a good travel.

I do run into those things, but I don't think that the timing is right.

i don't think that's that would sound right i mean that's how what the hell is that that's just

uh for the purpose of uh on the other hand let us let us let us let us see uh what uh how the thing is going to break down because the probably the talks over there there's going to be so much to do so much to do that we we've got to have the

the working groups that they might have to break into more than two to get it done.

And I'm assuming that we have that number of subjects because, as you can imagine,

John Bergeson.

John, I had to listen to the follow on everything.

And everything.

And of course, he expressed his opinion on everything.

And he was...

one of those guys who does everything himself and goes on top of everything.

But I understand that Gresham does not operate that way, because Steve does a lot of things, and Gromyko does things.

Well, Gromyko is not a member of the following group, but apparently Gromyko is used

very differently from the way that the Foreign Minister in China was used.

I think that under those circumstances that it's very likely that when I talk to President, he's going to be sitting there talking about, you know, probably the usual big picture stuff that I had to go through with all of them.

that it would be expected that the people would recede.

I don't know what their practice is, but it proceeded to not sit in.

On this thing, I would think that that could be a possibility.

Now, here's another thing.

One thing we've got to put her to do, that is why I want you to make a very hard line on every cabin officer who wants to go.

I said, no.

Because you see, if you get the, we've sent butts, butts over there are going to send it.

This test is a great thing.

But on trade, for example, we can't take Peterson.

I feel that the trade, the grading, all these things, we've got to work on having in mind the political effects rather than just the economic effects.

So we're, the kind of things that President Kennedy talks about, from what I've heard, that's his meat and potatoes.

He talks trading, he talks

the, uh, the, uh, everything from computers, et cetera, et cetera, for he's a great, he's a great expert.

It would not be, uh, it certainly wouldn't be, uh, if he's doing that, then I was impressed that it would not be looking that way to me.

I think there's somewhat, somewhat more of a division of power or a division of authority in the sequence of doing it.

What I'd like to do is just let me put my mind to it.

First to a survey of how they operate, and then I know what the problem is, and then to a way of how we can have this thing done in a way that I think is a highly substantive way.

Now, here's one thing I want to say.

The China trip, as you know, we couldn't say anything until the end, because the delay had such a bad feel in the hole that they didn't read it back.

And you know, everything we had in mind, it was not on Russian.

I'm inclined to think that it would be a great mistake for us to wait until they had even if we could or wanted to because I think we want it to be very different from the time of day.

What I would like to do is to have the first two days there talk and then start having an announcement every day.

We usually do, and we've got to be...

Whenever you get into that, the reason I thought I'd add to this is I think that here's the way, for example, you could take the, make the first announcement, you know, an announcement on this one, an announcement on that one, you see what I mean?

So that it's more, so that it's more, well, it is quite, it is the same, well, it's far more important because it's going to have a great massive reducing impact, but...

But you, like, like the, the, you know, you know, we had the briefing in the press of the U.S. address.

That was something.

but here the newsies will just be panicked to get the news and if we without we we we want to keep this very closely held and we plan to you know what the russians agree that i think they would like the idea because it distinguishes them from the chinese and then if we could come along and then we could say well the secretary of state uh will uh will be depressed on uh uh on uh an agreement that is in reach today in the soviet union united states

That's the kind of thing that I think makes a lot more sense than necessarily the experience of the thing.

And I think, too, that in terms of the planning, that we can get out, starting around the, you know, and realize it's so far away as to within two minutes.

Well, what is the right time to do it?

The week of May 27th is the working day.

We haven't announced any dates.

The best of what they're working against is under 10 and what we're working against is under 10.

Other embassies have been told by the Russians about that.

You told the best today.

Yeah, I don't know why we, now that China's passed us, I don't know why we don't announce today.

Yeah.

Well, the 22nd, that's the day, that's Monday, was the day of arrival in Moscow.

Which was the same as the day we arrived in New York.

Going back to the points that you were making, I don't know.

Really what I'm concerned about is the, not the appearance of publicity, but the fact.

In the case of The Rush, you know, when I talked to Kimiko, she talked to me about, you know, we'll be in touch with each other about the trip.

And one of the brilliant things I said to her was, you know, I want to report back to Kimiko.

Now it seems to me that if we can, if we can, in fact,

Participate.

Participate that way.

I don't mean planning.

I don't mean who sits at what meeting.

I'm not talking about press conferences that we get to listen.

I'm talking about the fact that this is what's known.

All the diplomats know it.

And, uh, you don't overcome it, I don't think you don't overcome it by social amenities, I mean, the person, the sex, and so forth.

That's what I'm talking about.

And I don't think, though, I wouldn't downgrade the fact that if you, uh, if you go out and announce that you agree on that sex, that looks like, that proves a substance.

I mean, it wouldn't help my view.

Well, on that point, as far as I'm concerned, the maximum publicity ought to be yours.

And I am in the interest of cutting in on that.

But I am interested in the action.

I should go out and .

And I think, as I say, we can be trusted under the same circumstances.

And they're all for you.

You know, you really are.

I think the China trip was great.

Well, there's the thing though, if they say so, instead of saying that the State Department is being humiliated, then people wouldn't believe that the State Department is hurt.

The reason these stories are built is because they jump on them.

But Bob, at the point you...

There's nobody...

So they're going to want to find somebody...

Okay, okay, okay, I agree.

In every stop, he's been doing it all over the world.

And we, and everybody in the safety department, Al Jenkins, we had a meeting with all that kind of people, and Al Jenkins got up and said, this was a tremendous success, and the fact that it was sold out for it went to the whole business.

I did it for two hours.

Now, it isn't really fair to criticize, I mean, I realize, why does it know anything?

I'm not criticizing, I'm saying this is the basis of the kind of stuff you get.

Even Marshall Green, when he went in, it was at Henry's briefing in Chiang Kai.

He didn't say, this is a great communicator.

In all my years of work here, I can't, I've never had a prouder moment or something.

He just came out and said the Secretary met with the Foreign Minister 17 times, with the Prime Minister three times.

I think that's all right.

I think they are a couple of times.

I'm not saying things like that because, you know, it's just a matter of whether you undersell or oversell.

Sometimes it's more effective to undersell.

But it's not.

Believe me.

I don't.

Well, except that they would be secretaries.

Secretaries stay in.

Secretaries stay, of course, in respect to the bill.

But the point is that I'm going to be on the bureaucracy a little bit.

But you're not going to be able to control it.

I'm totally resigned to it.

They're going to talk to the press.

And I speak to the bureaucracy.

I'm not speaking on a large scale.

I believe that there are all the R, not by tees.

And they're OK.

But down the line, there are guys that get them impressed, and then that creates an impression.

I think the love, I want to say, the press won't print that type of thing.

They print the criticism.

It's quite true.

I mean, I have gone and every time I've arrived at a country or come back to this country, I've said, well, I can tell you very well.

You're not English.

But I tell you that I have never seen the State Department more supportive of a president and his policies than this department.

They really believe in it.

They favor the things you do.

They really do.

Well, another thing that I've been asked to do by Romania, I've had another request by Romania and Yugoslavia to visit them somehow.

Now, maybe after, we can't do it right after we leave the Soviet Union, I suppose.

I know.

They would love that.

I know.

We can do it.

Look, as far as you know, they're going to have to do it right after.

Well, I'm not going to read it, but I think I...

after they got to the Russians, done.

There isn't a damn reason at all, as I see it, for them to not go to other countries.

Well, for many to know, I've got to go to Israel, and I've got to go to Iran, because I promise that you agree with those things.

I think you should go to Naples.

Well, I'm going to Iran, but if you may, could you let me ask, so if you can pick another place, is there any way you could go to...

Poland.

They've asked me to.

Which we haven't been to.

You see, Poland would be extremely interesting.

For us.

You see, there's a hell of a Polish vote.

And, uh, I think Czechoslovakia would burn Russia too much.

I don't think we could do that.

But Poland and Yugoslavia and Romania could all ask.

And in case of Romania and Yugoslavia, Yugoslavia just came in the other day and we were injured as well.

But they haven't had Romania.

I have a poll.

You haven't had the polls.

We've got more polls here than we do.

I can't vote.

That would be a direct slap.

If I had votes, a direct slap, the Secretary of State would go to three or seven people.

That's not a poll.

We don't want to throw up the Russians.

But on the other hand, at first the Secretary of State goes in and talks to our friends, our friends in the street guard and our friends in that.

Now I think it's definitely speaking to the, their, that, is that it talks much more effectively than it would in Latin America, for sure, because that is, that's a big, that's a big,

Uh, you would do that after the trip.

You would stay in Europe.

You know that.

So I could.

I could go back.

I could do it a month later.

I could go to New York.

I could go back.

There was something to be said.

I could go back.

I said, I'm just taking a lot of the moment.

Worked out for days.

for you to go back maybe two, three weeks later and make a second story, because the Russian trip will of course drown and take a while.

But the Romanian, going to the troops and going to some countries like that, I think could be, that seems to me, could be a good thing.

And we would not have to tell the Russians before my wife would have to get out.

I wouldn't, you see, I don't think we should do anything.

So we should tell them to let it be true.

That's what I meant.

And that, for that reason, and that is another argument, per se.

What you could say is that, you could say, I hope to come sometime.

I can't give you any date now.

And they lay off three weeks.

And they were on a hell of a walk.

I've actually told so many people.

I mean, Russians couldn't do this.

They couldn't bust.

They couldn't thrash.

They weren't there.

That would be quite a deal.

Yeah.

The other thing that I would, that sounds like a sad thing, but it's not.

It isn't small.

If it's not inconvenient to do so, I think it could be useful, likely, if you were on one of the trips than on the two.

If you stop on that trip, then you're both.

I did not plan to see him, you see.

I mean, to me, it would be the only point.

If I could stop on the way back, I was thinking of that the other night.

Well, I could do whatever it took you to go, and I didn't do the book, you know, and get him to report it.

I think it would be very, very, very good.

Maybe right after nature would be good to put you on there.

And is there any way?

I guess you can't do the big stuff.

It's just too...

It's not as if that's all that happens.

Yeah, but it is.

There's so much happening that way.

I'll tell you, Mr. President, the Middle East is in a mess.

You know what I meant?

It's really something.

Well, I guess we've got to knock the speaker out.

We've got to knock it off the boat.

But I knew what we were doing.

We were doing what we were doing.

You know, this...

Combined organizations.

He said that he thought you'd get a much bigger Jewish vote this year.

Did you see that?

Yeah.

You know what he said?

He's complaining so that we have more phantoms.

You get some of the intelligent

pro-Israel, U.S. students.

You know why?

No, we're not.

You've got to, you know, you've got to, for a reason that's totally different from the reason that Democrats get.

They care for the Democrats because they think the Democrats are going to give back to the rest.

But the very intelligent, tough children will give an oath to me for another reason.

Because they know that their danger is not their danger to the Soviets.

And they know that only we can hold the ring against the Soviets.

And they know that no Democrats sitting here would dare do it.

And they doubt that even I might.

But they think that I might be the last reason.

No doubt about it.

I haven't seen either of them.

But I remember when I talked to them before the election.

and you know how he talks, and he said, well, he said, you know, I don't even get the Jewish voice, let me tell you something, he said, he said, I am in here, I'm supporting you, I don't tell you why, he said, there's a question in college, he said, I know that you have a question, he said,

And I think that's the hard part.

If we could get that line across to a lot of, to a lot of Jews, it would mean a lot.

In fact, you might do.

This really is true.

How do you take the Jordanian thing?

What the hell is all about?

We're reading 6.3 and all the rest.

It was about Russians.

But we haven't moved it.

Who knows?

I mean, a little Israel will last about one hour against Russians.

And if the Russians support the Egyptians by manpower, they're finished with food.

And so that's what they want us to do.

But can you imagine a Muskie or a Humphrey or a Teddy Kennedy standing up and eating for Israel against Russians?

No.

That's the whole issue.

Let me ask you this.

Do you think that if you're having the OAS here, and do some hard financing work out, you ought to go to the Canadian trip?

If you come away from the OAS in Canada, excuse me, I plan to go, my parents plan to go to Africa, and we do that, as David said.

They tell us, they tell us.

Well, we have to get their agreement back.

We ought to bring a lot of tax revenue.

There is not a date set.

Well, if we get set, then to go, which I don't think I'm doing.

That's the dark secret.

It just happens that I'm arranging the schedule in such a way that I have to be in California on the Saturday night of the hour.

I think he insisted that if you would like to consider that you are planning to go out, you see, I'd better go out and make a stop in the country and decide where Kansas City is going.

We've got a whole bunch of them.

We've got to figure out which one to do.

That's good.

I've been asked to speak at some colleges.

Maybe I could combine that and speak at

When we actually do Southern California, one of those answer questions is Southern Cal next time.

If you could do Southern Cal and is there any college in Northern California that would be safe to speak at?

Maybe San Jose?

Davis.

Huh?

The University of California in Davis, which wouldn't be a bad idea.

Great.

It never ceases.

It sure is now.

Why?

Is Berkeley under the question?

I don't think so.

I've got a daughter that teaches there.

She's pointing out to me that they'll teach you there.

I don't, you know, I mean, of course, I don't like somebody, a hell of a thing.

Somebody would walk up to her and speak and get away with it.

It's a risky thing, but, you know, sometimes that's just what you want to get out.

True.

You come out and you go, what's up?

It's after the Russian and China summits.

Well, this is between them.

Between them, all right.

We're like each other, yeah.

But with the Russians coming up, and with the war being on, cashing us down with two or whatever it is, three, I mean, a few anti-war people, but what in the hell do they want?

I mean, we're going pretty well.

I mean, one of the reasons that we have this little flap about the state of the White House is because they've got nothing else to criticize.

That's right.

What were the cashings last week for?

I don't know.

Well, you know, last week, if you notice what they did to the 26th, CBS went on and said, cash restored this week to six.

This is a quote.

Restored this week to six.

The highest any year in all of the year.

Highest this year.

Restored to six.

You know, I want that happening in time.

I mean, once a minute, it just shows you.

It's a lot of it.

It's a year ago, it was triple.

A year ago, it was 69.

Now it's six.

It's no longer an issue.

Well, I suppose that we've got hours to deal with it.

God knows what we can do about it.

But eventually we've got to know what's done.

We've got to test that story out.

I must say, your opponents look pretty sad in the pension.

You didn't watch it.

You watched that debate.

I guess it really was bad, but I didn't see it.

To me, it's really to me, it's a heartbeat.

I don't know if it was any good.

Somebody came to the audience.

At the audience, yeah.

Why didn't they come to the audience?

They all, it was a... How did Lowe's come, and how did you get here?

I'm asking you.

Well, they did very poorly in real terms.

They had no spark level.

What did they do that makes that speech attractive?

Well, here's what they did.

They started out and said each of you will speak for five minutes.

There were five of them.

So they spoke for five minutes, and at the end of four minutes, maybe it was four minutes at least, four or five, at the end of three minutes, we'll tell you

And you've got another minute to go, and then in ten seconds, we'll tell you you've got ten seconds.

So they sat up there like little puppets.

and spoke their pieces, and then the announcer would say, one minute to go, and they'd get 10 seconds to go.

Can you say that?

Yeah, right, while they're talking.

And the first one was, it's crazy, Bob, Paul, or whatever his name is, who's too young to run.

He kept holding up a rat.

He held up a rat, so he's not qualified.

put them on the debate and when they got on to uh must keep the government uh they would you know perfectly all right and then after that they had three questioners and they asked one question and then they had left all five of them answered the same question

for a minute.

We have a thing I was going to say over there.

And, well, you can never make a choice.

There can't be one equal to two.

Now, I can't debate.

I find that you can't.

I'm very willing to.

But you can't sit here knowing what you do until you agree.

Oh, I wish you agreed to the hard line.

Sure.

No, absolutely.

I don't think you should consider it.

I completely agree.

No, sir, I didn't consider it.

Well, I've got to say, though, that if you take the press conference out, why can't you debate what stands for that?

Because your press conference is a different thing.

You're answering questions at the base.

Also, the press conference, I can't say why I'm not going to answer that at the base.

At the base, I can't answer that.

He isn't answering that because he's afraid to, rather than... Is any press conference at the base a different thing than ours?

No, I just think we haven't ever had a base before then.

Well, I just think it's all a person's business.

Well, of course Johnson didn't debate.

Mm-hmm.

Well, Humphrey, uh, well, Husky's point was very good.

You know, he's already been, he's copped out on it by, by saying, well, I reduced the base of McGovern, remember what he said about the decision, to head and head.

Because the, the guy behind always wants to bait the guy ahead.

And he's not gonna, I don't know the people, I think, who are, who are, who are, who are, who are, who are, who are, who are, who are, who are, who are, who are, who are, who are, who are,

The, uh, this, I think Teddy Kent is going to do all he can to make this actually keep him in the lab as long as he can to serve.

I think he's the only private one that has any great interest because it makes a little bit of a stricter away from his performance.

And I think that's a good case to consider.

How do you think you're going to do it?

I don't know.

Zeke might well turn it off until we get that brought up to testify.

Why?

Because he was on the good on television last night, and he's been in silence since he was totally employed.

Yes, yes.

Yes.

She must be there.

No, she must.

She was Ted Rogers' secretary for the Sixty Campaign.

I don't know if you remember, but she was a real power.

She would come across and shout at everybody and say terrible words.

She's a professional.

Frankly, more.

And I've heard of these guys.

So I went to his room and I thought she looked a little familiar.

I said, no, it wasn't just the one that finally changed.

She was the one who has, I had a recollection.

I said, I had seen that woman.

You know, I told you.

Yeah, I said, by the way, girls.

Those idiots who are going to see her some day on accident are going to turn up for them and use the keys to their head.

The whole thing, though, is a goddamn frame-up.

Not, but, but, in this sense, she did what every lawless gentleman does.

Says, I had three of our own people on my ship.

His roast was present to God that much as the lunch they had at the Kentucky Derby, you know, his breakfast, brilliant.

At the low time, there were 300 present on the wall.

She came up and said, oh, there's not two minutes, that was a three-hour lunch.

Something about history repeats itself.

You know, I had that investigation of the five percenters, and one of the things that I developed, by way of evidence, were the letters that they wrote to their companies.

explaining what they had done.

Which I've never heard of any other facts.

They always build themselves up, which other stuff is going to help us.

And, uh, get all of us out of the way.

Well, this of course is

And of course, the thing is, when that concerns me, I thought it was a contribution to the Nixon committee.

No contribution to the Nixon committee.

No.

It's a contribution to the state of San Diego to put him on that convention.

Who cares?

Why did he share it in no time?

I'm not going to say it.

It's just terrible.

It's just stupid.

And the 1910 case was a tough one.

The 1910 did it again.

as good a settlement as they want, because you're in here bitching about the settlement, not to me.

You know, there's no way you can win over them.

But I agree, I can get it out of the way, but how can we do it?

Kennedy is the only one that could benefit.

I don't think it's having any impact on the election itself, but I think that it could help him a little bit by finding out that other people have troubles.

Maybe a little more difficult to talk about his problem.

Um, and I think that's the reason he's got, he's got a lot of investigators running down there.

He's got a little bit of justice going through the RGT file.

So he's the one that's trying to make sure.

Well, I think he's going to cooperate as far as he possibly can.

You know, even if they can have longer sessions or something, just to get it behind him.

He's in kind of a sticky position, I guess.

He can't very well close it down without getting under the committee, which won't let him do it.

Well, I don't think so.

I don't think so.

where the important thing is to get the assumptions, to get the, and the, but it also, also is important is the appearance.

So the appearance side is not going to be a science, because it's, it's very, very true.

The assumptions side, we're just going to, we're going to get, we're going to get it out.

I think also, Mr. Kirby, at some time, I know this won't be up to you, but I want to suggest that at some time,

And then one service, if something is happening on occasion, if you could come over and just express your appreciation for some of the things they share, it will help.

It won't change them, but if they so feel, you know, the group is, to begin with, I tell them, I say, Trace, a lot of you don't just come into the office so you can have your feelings heard.

You know, I don't, you know, it's like some people enjoy it on their own.

Why don't you do this?

Why don't you, really, why don't you find an event like, uh,

Maybe we're getting an award ceremony or something.

That'd be nice.

I'll figure something out.

If I just come over and look a little, that'd be like, maybe he did it.

Maybe I can say something like, Alex Thompson retires.

But you have that award for top 10 officers or some kind of thing, don't you?

Yeah, I actually put it up.

I think it might do that in this stand and people too.

I've met a lot of people and I know a lot of them.

I think I've met a lot of people.

You know, we put out that foreign policy report today, which many staff are over it, so it's a question of time.

I think it got a pretty good play on the wire, as it did on the early wires.

But if you look through that, as I said to Prescott, if you look through that, you see what the State Department has done.

A hell of a lot of activity now.

The foreign policy should be conducted by the President of the United States.

That's why I am a President.

Uh, did I say you might look at that in your times?

I've said quite a few things like that in the magazine section.

The things you say are perfect, and I'm going to play you down on this.

There's never any problem there.

I've got to testify before Fulbright tomorrow.

Are you going to be on and honoring, I mean, going on the record and opening the cameras?

Well, I won't get much family attention because it's a... Well, no, I don't care.

I'm glad you're moving.

I'm glad that you heard this because it depends on other developments.

But on Thursday afternoon, I made an in-office thing here to just scrape away some of the domestic stuff.

I don't want to get it out of the way so that when I do a televised, which I may have in a couple of weeks time, and then...

So, uh, that'll be mine due on tomorrow, and I'll, I'll follow up next week, and I can, uh, I'll be good.

I'll treat you.

I pointed out at the press conference the other day that somebody asked me just one question, unfortunately.

I said, I don't understand what this life is about.

We've got five semifinals.

Uh, we've conducted them all the same way.

In the case of China, I had met on two occasions with the

I used to separately, one and a half to one and a half, we had two plenary sessions.

I said, this has already happened.

I said, I didn't meet with people, I didn't meet with Papa DeLone, I didn't meet with Grandma DeLone, I didn't meet with Sato DeLone.

And that's not in your cell, that's not the way you .

Some of those, you know, the British plenary session was very, very short.

I don't think the Germans had, they didn't have these, no.

No, I guess not.

It's basically a problem of atmospherics and we can correct it all right.

But it'll help a lot, first it'll help if the contractor, it'll help a lot with diplomats, which is not so important for them.

But it'll help a lot with my standing in the campaign.

I said, yeah, how could we compare to do a lot of work?

We can't do it if there's not nobody, but if they go to the, if I go to a campus, they say, what the hell, you know, why do you want me to do this?

And I'm like, it's terrible.

So I don't mind seeing diplomats for a while, but if they ever come in...

I mean, I don't like to see foreign ministers say, you know, I keep pushing them off, but they always have a recommendation.

That's weird.

How many minutes?

That's pretty well.

Oh, yeah.

Well, I've got to go to the VFW now.

Just a little bit.

Are you going to do it?

I'm going to do it.

I guess the...

Good morning.

I know Dick goes out and takes a brief piece of it, but please take a second to place it.

I think it's quite early on.

This is a better way to read it than to take a piece out of it.

And we've got to talk about the comments.

The comments are good.

What does he mean by several relations?

Are you firing him?

Yeah.

Are you going to do a second check?

Yeah.

I said, well, can we move together?

I'm Anderson.

We can't do that.

We've got a problem that's there in the middle of the creek for some time, the Russian trip.

In other words, we have a perfect answer in several respects.

Well, there ain't going to be no advance.

Thank God we cut off Henry's living there.

He was raised there recently and we didn't want to go to Moscow before this trip.

He wants to go.

Huh?

He wants to go.

But it can't be done?

I don't think it should be anyway.

It just, that isn't a good idea.

Then it looks as if you're totally incompetent.

You have to send Henry out to do everything for you.

Well, I, I, we've got to put that down here.

There was a reason for him going to China, huh?

I think we got away with fine.

There is not a rush going on, I guess, appearing to be maybe the, maybe the true, I guess, curiosity.

That's another reason why I'm somewhat concerned about him.

about the television program that he goes on.

Yeah.

It's a mixed bag.

Yeah, sure.

Yep.

The second point, though, is that Bill says that he wants to be in charge, and you know, I had to, I finessed that, you know, stand on that kind of, kind of charge, in terms of why, you know, he was in charge of the substance.

Well, he can't do that, but we know why.

But on the other hand, I've hit him pretty hard on the fact that he's got to admit Bill and some, something to talk about, you know, and his, his, what he did in China.

Do you agree with that?

Yeah.

I haven't talked to Henry about the Russian guy.

I don't know how that format, I don't know if Henry can understand that format.

But Henry has got to be hard-line.

He is not going to Russia.

Well, I see him going hard-line all the time.

He locks it in every once in a while to see whether it might float again.

Well, here's where Henry Seager was overplaying, that he had worked his thing out for him, and we have good communications with Graham, and Thomas, and so on.

One thing that Henry could do is to bring Bill in to something.

He could agree to talk together, I don't know, but...

I think after VDIU and then discipline Bill on what's going on there, we could take a chance on that.

It's a less chance, in a way, than the chance we take by not doing it.

I guess that in our idea of how to have a little talk, or for that matter, I could do it.

Because, you know, I just looked at who that is up there.

As I let Henry have a platter of his own, I went up and said, well, why don't we divide some of these things up and so forth and so on.

Now Henry, of course, is like a mother who aren't babes.

That's the way he goes.

He'd go out and, well, he's got a problem there.

A very real one in the building.

Bill thinks he's soft with the Middle East, and a good part of it has been in his department.

He had a geek in the Jews in line.

Well, Bill's been terrorizing the Jews, trying to be protective, we're gonna protect them and so forth.

Bill's fine with it.

I mean, he said on one hand that he supports our policy together, and he said it was the

I don't know how he could.

I think he does, to a degree.

And they sure as hell don't come from here.

He knows that.

That's where he's got a problem in trying to peddle his line, is that there hasn't.

That's why I made that point of Henry being, you know, doling him up and all that.

I did a couple of those things in your presence so that when I talked to him without you there, he'd notice.

He'd notice that...

This is, you know, you have to back off.

I don't want to get very far.

He realizes that he hasn't taken it seriously enough.

He realizes that.

I'll talk to him about this consideration of the coalition.

I don't think that exposes any significant problems.

I would think it would be good for us politically for somebody to go to Poland.

We just can't be in a position to concentrate.

Well, you know, I mean, I agree that he should go to Latin America.

In my opinion, I would still go on.

I don't know about you.

But I think he... You don't think he's backing off?

You have to worry about him.

You know why I said that he's worried?

Because the collective did a terror practice for the rest.

But he never bites a tongue.

That's the point.

He's got to go to the tongue.

And he could have done it.

And he could have done it if he would.

You know, I think he really committed himself today to all of my respect.

I can't dream what kind of schedule I'm letting in at the press conference today and at the committee hearing tomorrow, whether we're being treated as a policy.

It has to do with this state of his policy reporting, policy reporting, which he put out today, and that's why he starts talking about it.

And that's why he had to give a little push to that, and the questions were all on that.

Don't tell Henry about the fact that Bill says he should be in charge of the Russian ship.

You know, because Henry will never forget that and keep reminding us that Rogers wants that.

We've got to find a way to work Rogers into it.

Some substantive participation.

When they need to do, for example, a telephonic, we can say we're going to telephonic where he's dressed to be.

Take Rogers and Henry with you and have them say what you're having.

You're holding up for meetings on preparation for the Russian trip?

No, not for doing the preliminary work.

No sir, that's only a month before the trip.

That would be helpful.

I don't know if Henry is buying enough things to talk about there.

He stepped in.

He stepped in to play the oboe a little bit more.

I kept probing him, probing him, probing him a little bit.

I said, well, very well, I understand you're getting involved and so forth.

And he tried.

It was too late for that time.

And also, Rogers did play the game a little bit.

See, that's how the practice would come in and would go along, and Chris Henry won't tolerate it.

When he's in his creative process, he won't tolerate anybody interfering, whether it's Ziegler, or Saling, or Rogers, or anybody else.

And he's wrong on that, because all of them could help him.

Listen.

Somebody should be talking before you understand their response.

Chris Henry is not impellable.

He's been good, but everybody used a little belt.

Well, we all can get an idea we haven't thought of yet, and particularly where he's not good is in deciding how to write the story for the goddamn reporter.

You know, he never makes it that way.

He never makes it that way.

No, he doesn't understand that at all.

He's always trying to answer responsibly, which makes him look brilliant.

So they all sit back and just review a brilliant background.

Then they write about what we want written.

What the hell does that prove?

I mean, I do not apply, as I said, I do not think it's a helpful sign.

I don't think it's serious.

And Jim, it isn't helpful to have the kind of stuff written with the effect of being, as you know, far more serious than our children are.

Our children know this when they write that, uh, that, uh, this here is a man who planned all this thing and worked it all out and I executed it.

And I just never thought it would be the best thing to do in my lifetime.

I think it is.

Sure.

I think it's probably the best thing to do in my lifetime.

You got it.

Oh.

Okay, boy.

It's good that I mentioned that.

I saw that he won't come back tomorrow and raise him.

So I'll just check.

It could be.

He's got quotes attributed to that.

At a level point, I always thought it was going to do something this way.

Next up here, this way.

Do some thinking about this and try to get Henry on salvo and then say, well, we ought to follow through and this is where you're going to handle the trip.

We certainly got to know just exactly.

I mean, there ain't going to be no advance person.

I really mean that.

I'll let you explain.

That's just decided, right?

Yeah.

your normal logistic advance, or you just could tell we have an embassy to work through there.

So if I'm making boldly, I didn't realize that that's kind of the best we had.

I know we've told him that before.

We have.

The other day, he said one of the days of the Russian trip, and you remember we told him?

I was there, remember?

We gave it to him.

He's the original base.

He said, I had a dog.

He said, you had a chance.

He said, well, everybody's passing around.

Well, what do you think this is?

It's just straight heroin in your body.

I guess.

That, that one really startled me because we, it was before China that we talked about that one, wasn't it?

Yes, there's a data that told me that we had tall cities.

And we did.

And they are working states, they aren't, they're just a firm announced state yet.

We ought to announce a part of them.

I don't know, is there any reason not to now?

Let's see why there would be.

Well, send that in so you can get that done.

Announced states.

My proposition, Bob, is one that Bill cannot do.

That is, Henry doesn't want Bill to even talk to Sabrina before this trip.

Don't you agree that we cannot enforce that kind of rule?

I don't see how you can.

You can.

You can do it.

Then let Henry, Bill,

Yeah.

That's what would be ideal, if Henry would just figure out a way of doing that.

So, let me have the meat, so they all work together.

I don't know if you can hear me.

Yeah.

Well, I think we better get Bill back on some of this stuff rather than just pretend he's right about it.

Well, I mean, he was.

But, you know, it all seems that he's not being treated right or something.

He's the one that's got to stand up.

Okay, well, he's running over here and that's playing through the fact that what they're saying is right.

He's got to play through it and just get it over with.

Well, let's face it.

Also, the stories created by God and stated by the bureaucracy, you know, can make better policies, or not.

He says, trust us, not trust them.

In fact, you know, he didn't trust them.

He'd be a little smarter if he played a cup with them and not trust them, and realize he has enemies there, just like he did.

Right?

Yeah.

It's the best we have on both.

People don't think that his ambassadors don't take him seriously.

They're probably impressed with him taking him seriously.

But that's his fault, not ours.

Is that your point?

Sure.

Why is it his fault?

Because he doesn't set himself up to be taken seriously.

He tries to defend the charges against him instead of counterattacking, or instead of attacking me and taking the wrong decision.

When he runs around protesting, how often does he talk to the other side of the police?

Of course, I didn't sit in the meetings.

I never sat in the meetings.

Well, he barely did a little.

That was from our talk last night.

Word.

He jumped on that.

You know, he's a fat boy.

He's defensive.

He's a defensive man.

But he's got to get that in his own mind.

He's got to put himself in any of the hell with you guys.

I'm doing a great job as Secretary of State.

I know you do.

No, I want Henry to steer doing what he's doing instead of trying to pretend that Henry hates doing it.

You've got to tell us what you just said with the State Department, the plan and everything.

What did you just say?

I'm going to get him to steer the plan.

What did you just say?

That's what's wrong.

Even if they did it, they don't plan a goddamn thing.

Because they can't do a thing unless I approve it.

It's not true.

Well, there you go.

There you go.

One chair is a match.

Three, one time three.

Well, we just have to change it.

Put one like this.

This chair belongs.

No, this chair belongs there.

Here's the other one.

That's the other chair.

That was the other one.