Nixon, Haldeman & MacGregor on William P. Rogers and Henry A. Kissinger

3:47:16You know, there has to be an intelligent man who's got to see the terrible irresponsibility
3:47:40him, who would tear down and have nothing to offer, his place, or have a double standard, receive power and so on and so on.
3:47:50He's just one of those factors.
3:47:54And he's quite an impressive guy, my friend.
3:47:56Gale, that's your copy, your autographed copy.
3:48:03It won't sell much, but it'll have a .
3:48:06There's a lot of good reference stuff in it.
3:48:08I've read it.
3:48:09I've gone through it pretty much, getting a lot of examples that really scoop things up.
3:48:29Some good songs and a lot of good stuff on how the President writes his own speeches.
3:48:34Right.
3:48:34He's got a chapter titled, Over Their Heads to the People.
3:48:40Which we're going to start a little more of now.
3:48:41Talks about that.
3:48:44He's got some great historical stuff too.
3:48:46Doesn't he?
3:48:48He's very ancient of all.
3:48:52Great Jefferson quote.
3:48:53Either way, he's got a few.
3:48:58Could I suggest that for any of our people's hope, hope is fine.
3:49:04We can't afford that.
3:49:10I don't know if I could send a few around, no.
3:49:13But we're getting some.
3:49:15I hope somebody would give it to you as a present.
3:49:17You know, people do ask, what can I do to help?
3:49:21Well, I'm going to, you know, they all write this thing, they're building this big thing about how to heat the earth.
3:49:27And I'm going to make the point.
3:49:30Any questions?
3:49:32I don't hate the press at all.
3:49:34I just understand them.
3:49:37I'll be glad to talk with anybody about the press after they've read the Keough book and the Akron book.
3:49:47But I have no interest in talking to anybody about the press until they've read both books.
3:49:52Because obviously we're not talking in the same wavelength until they've read these.
3:49:56Then if they want to discuss the whole press question, there might be some merit to it.
3:50:00But if they haven't read these two books, they don't know what I'm talking about.
3:50:08Thomas Jefferson, who makes a point, was very well treated by the press, wrote in a letter to James Monroe,
3:50:1840 years of experience of the wretched guesswork of the newspapers, of what is not done in open daylight, and of their falsehoods even as to that, I rarely think them worth reading and almost never worth notice.
3:50:40James Polk.
3:50:43During the Mexican War, he sent a secret emissary to Mexico to try to negotiate a settlement, try to keep it a deep secret, but the press found out about it.
3:50:53And so Polk wrote, the success of the mission I knew in the beginning must depend mainly on keeping it a secret from that portion of the Federal Trust and leading men in the country who, since the commencement of the war with Mexico, have been giving aid and comfort to the enemy.
3:51:07That's the President of the United States.
3:51:10In a role, you know, a funny version of the president.
3:51:19Oh, he talked about the journalist's narrow bigotry, the most envious malignity, the most base, vulgar, sordid, fickle-mouthed scurrility, the most palpable lies.
3:51:27He said he's the worst at it now.
3:51:33He said his successors would find that the regulation of the press is the most difficult, dangerous, and important problem they have to resolve.
3:51:42Yeah.
3:51:43And of course, everybody uses a long-term period to run that.
3:51:48Yeah, but...
3:51:49Yeah, instead of just hanging on link links, you pick naturally, you pick some of the others.
3:51:52Everybody uses link links.
3:51:53He was bad at reading and so forth and so on.
3:51:55What Cameron probably didn't have, and it's because of the computer, it's not our fault, but I just haven't had time to do research on this.
3:52:10It's totally vicious and I'm suppressing it.
3:52:14That was maybe long before I had any budget.
3:52:19I'm glad he wrote the book.
3:52:26Throughout Richard Nixon's public career, he had faced hostility from most of the men in the major media.
3:52:43While this problem for him was in many ways much more complex than that which John Adams had faced,
3:52:49He would not quite agree that it was the most difficult, dangerous, and important problem of all.
3:52:53But he knew it was a problem, and he set about to deal with it in a characteristically pragmatic way.
3:52:59That's his lead into Over the Heads to the People, and got after it.
3:53:02And he was going to get all the way to New England.
3:53:10He's into the Cambodia thing and the campus bombs.
3:53:15He has the whole story of the bumps and how they blew that up, quoting each other.
3:53:20He has the whole chapter on how they told it like it wasn't.
3:53:26He has that straight up Rumsfeld's office where the, you know, Drew Pearson said he had almost stepped in.
3:53:41He's got a lot of good stuff, and it's all solidly .
3:53:46And he hits Hurd and all those people on a chapter title reverence for .
3:54:04got a chapter called Breakfast in the Jungle, which is he knocks the guy, Christopher Irwin, breakfast.
3:54:10Now that's distorted.
3:54:14And he quotes the Vice President's thing, then runs all the commentary.
3:54:21He has your November 3rd speech in the appendix, and then the commentary on each of the three networks following your November 3rd speech.
3:54:30He has the transcripts of all of the commentary.
3:54:32And then he's got the Vice President's Des Moines speech on that.
3:54:37That's over here.
3:54:39It's a good piece of work with some usable stuff people can pick up.
3:54:46That's all that we have here.
3:54:50A lot of the science .
3:54:54That's why I didn't go to the Great Iron.
3:54:55I didn't mention this to you, but I thought I'd make one of them this year, so it didn't appear.
3:55:01I was just totally out.
3:55:03I'm going to the Great Iron.
3:55:04It's the most prestigious trade.
3:55:07I'll never go to the White House for a response.
3:55:15At that time, the end of April would be perfect.
3:55:22April 30th is a Sunday night, and that would be good if you wanted to do that.
3:55:27He'd like to do this thing in the evening.
3:55:28Good.
3:55:30And it would be an evening party, and then he'd love to have you stay at the house overnight.
3:55:35Yeah, we should.
3:55:36Come back to Washington the next day.
3:55:38Right.
3:55:38Right.
3:55:41So you can do that if that works out.
3:55:44Right.
3:55:49I disagree with that date, frankly, in terms of that.
3:55:53And then I'll see if we can't work the California thing out.
3:55:57We'll just go ahead and do the county thing anyway.
3:56:00Because I think on Texas, I'd like to shoot it in and out rather than do, if you see my point, the idea of doing several things when you're in a state is ridiculous.
3:56:13It's a waste.
3:56:15And I'm inclined to think that we ought to go to Texas two or three times, perhaps, and set a road.
3:56:22Yeah.
3:56:22I don't know.
3:56:24You told me that probably we can't do San Angelo.
3:56:27I told them we couldn't because that was the Canada trip.
3:56:30Yeah, I told them that before.
3:56:32That's all right.
3:56:32Let's agree on the 30 days of the date and say we'd like for him to go forward.
3:56:37That's a good time for us.
3:56:38Well, either we, at the end of that, we'd like to stay overnight and he could come with Ivery and, you know, if they want him.
3:56:46And let us come back with us on the plane.
3:56:50Let's drop that.
3:56:52No, I didn't want that.
3:57:21What did he say from his viewpoint on China?
3:57:23Did he have any reaction to it in any way, or did he just generally speak what he wanted to?
3:57:28Because he got what you could tell when that was part of it.
3:57:54And I, if I could look back, whatever the city wants to make of that finance thing, it's like the debate, right?
3:58:03We have to just say, hell, I'm not going to, I mean, we'll do what the law requires, nothing more.
3:58:09We're not going to go to that contest.
3:58:10That's like, that's, I think, that's, right, we've got to sort of take our own ground and hold it, regardless of what the opposition wants to play with it.
3:58:20Okay.
3:58:21The law, we put it on it.
3:58:26And I guess the figures say that's all being handled, which stands to do.
3:58:29But all that, all the requirements, we have nothing to hide.
3:58:34And he puts out a hell of a big, long list at some point, or at least so many contributors.
3:58:45He counted that musketeers, they leave alone very much.
3:58:49The Jews, their pornographic stuff, they leave terribly alone.
3:59:36He's here, you know.
3:59:44I haven't talked to him either, so I'm just buzzing.
3:59:51I can't be able to speak.
4:00:02And to Jess go, you know, I know this is a problem.
4:00:05He must be thinking about it, too.
4:00:11I hope he can.
4:00:12It's quite clear.
4:00:13Don't call him out on lunch, though, if he's having a lunch.
4:00:18Just let us know where he is.
4:00:24And I think it's another, I mean, the third, we've got Jess Henry.
4:00:29But, you know, Robin Poole,
4:00:32Because Bill was beaten to death.
4:00:35Henry's under more, Bill's under more attack.
4:00:41Henry's been under very severe attack.
4:00:42I didn't see anybody come to his defense.
4:00:44Do you remember the Anderson papers?
4:00:48Yes.
4:00:48Henry was under pretty brutal attack then, Bob.
4:00:52We forget that now.
4:00:55No, I remember it because Henry is very much aware of the crime.
4:00:59You know, there's whole Indian policies.
4:01:01Henry's here.
4:01:01And he would say, I'm going to get ready, you know, to challenge that if you're called.
4:01:06Because nobody was defending him, you know.
4:01:08Did anybody take the time in there?
4:01:13No.
4:01:13No?
4:01:18They didn't.
4:01:23You just can't have a breakup, can you, Bob?
4:01:31And yet, how the hell can you live with it?
4:01:35With Bill just looking over your shoulder every minute of the time.
4:01:44I'm not going to spoil it, baby.
4:01:48I don't know.
4:01:50I think we've just got to keep it in Bill.
4:01:54Incidentally, I keep the Grinner thing.
4:01:57I don't want cabin officers that have turned it down for their own reasons to change their mind because I'm there.
4:02:09I think they look sort of silly.
4:02:13I think we have one problem with Bill's case.
4:02:17His failure to be there would be noticeable to them.
4:02:22Plus, we've got a little problem with him.
4:02:24He thinks he's going to California with you.
4:02:26I kind of think I've got to tell him you want to tell him.
4:02:32You say that I couldn't work it out.
4:02:35We had a project.
4:02:37I had to do that.
4:02:38I've got to stay with him.
4:02:40I'm stuck with the damn thing.
4:02:42Oh, Mark, how's the dentist?
4:02:44Hey, Mark.
4:02:44Hi.
4:02:45I had some gum surgery this morning.
4:02:48Holy Jesus, that's tough.
4:02:49But, uh, you've still got to see, uh, Joe Lowe came to see you again.
4:02:55I seem to be able to talk, all right, as far as I know.
4:02:57My mental processes, I hope, are not dull.
4:02:59But, uh, no, I guess I have the same thing about the finish.
4:03:05I have to, you know, hold on.
4:03:09Good Lord.
4:03:10Don't cure it the way Mitch did.
4:03:11Well, maybe I'm mistaken.
4:03:13I don't know just what he had.
4:03:14He had all this teeth taken out.
4:03:16Oh, I didn't know that.
4:03:18Yeah, I think 100%.
4:03:19Oh, I didn't know that.
4:03:21All I've got is teeth.
4:03:22That may not be wrong.
4:03:24He has a lot of teeth.
4:03:27No, I'm not that big.
4:03:30Periodontists, I think is what they call it.
4:03:32That's a gradual deterioration of the gums.
4:03:34That might be true.
4:03:38Look, I'd like to talk to you a little about this flap between Rogers and Kissinger.
4:03:41I mean, this is sort of one of those things, but it does seem to me that Doc Hart would want to be there.
4:03:57It does do.
4:03:57I think he should be there, but I think the way it's got to be handled is, is it still that he can't come on Wednesday?
4:04:04Yes, that's true.
4:04:05I just verified that with Dick Cook, and I- And it's important that you, or that they tell Henry that you have talked with the community, the people that they feel very strongly admire, may not be down to do that.
4:04:14But Bob Hart, because he's been our strongest supporter, has got to be there, and it would be wise of him not to because we haven't even found him to be there.
4:04:25I will, Mr. President.
4:04:26I've called Dr. Morgan's office.
4:04:27I haven't spoken to him in person.
4:04:31He has a lot of teeth.
4:04:33No, I'm not that big.
4:04:36Periodontist, I think is what they call it, and that's a gradual deterioration of the gum.
4:04:41Look, I'd like to talk to you a little about this flap between Rogers and Kissinger.
4:04:54but it does seem to be that Doc Hart would want to be there.
4:05:02It does do.
4:05:03I think he should be there, but I think the way it's got to be handled is, is it still that he can't come on Wednesday?
4:05:08Yes, that's true.
4:05:09I just heard about that with Dick Cook.
4:05:11It's important that you, or that they tell Henry that you have talked with the community, the people that they feel very strongly admire, may not be down with you.
4:05:16But Bob Martin, because he's been our strongest supporter, has got to be there, and it would be wise of him not to because we have to meet him about his being there.
4:05:31I will, Mr. President.
4:05:32I've called Dr. Morgan's office.
4:05:33I haven't spoken to him personally, but I requested an appointment to go up and talk with Dr. Morgan.
4:05:39I should go up and visit with him, and I don't have to.
4:05:41I would also like to have you invite Dr. Morgan, Dr. Morgan, Dr. Morgan, Dr. Morgan, Dr. Morgan, Dr. Morgan, Dr. Morgan,
4:05:54That gets it away from Henry's Rogers and so on and so forth and so on.
4:06:05I think Rogers is wrong about this.
4:06:07As I understand it, you have his man present with you there.
4:06:12Yes, sir.
4:06:13And it is actually a difference.
4:06:15We've done these things with Henry and the Foreign Relations Committee members at Blair House on two occasions and once at...
4:06:23before I was on your staff, sir, either at Fulbright's home or at John Truman Cooper's home, I can't remember just what, but Dave Avschar has been president on each of those occasions, and he's the head of congressional relations at the state.
4:06:40Which I said the bill at our home last night, and I emphasized to him again on that.
4:06:47on the phone this morning, and I said, Henry called me to keep this game a week ago Friday and emphasized that he, Henry, wished to do nothing to undermine, diminish, or in any way detract from the position of the Secretary of State.
4:07:04And it was Henry who insisted that these informal sessions be scheduled only after the Secretary of State had appeared before each of the committees to make his report.
4:07:17Bill Rogers, Mr. President, responded by saying, well, I meet with the committees in public and then Henry meets with them in private.
4:07:27And he said, I don't think that's helping.
4:07:30Well, I...
4:07:31He wanted to make sure he was in public.
4:07:33You can't just say, I didn't notice that.
4:07:35You also know that probably when you've got a category that's not equal, then you are going to have a constitutional crisis, are you not?
4:07:43They're going to demand, because that's what we're trying to do as our church, and the purpose of this is to undercut that.
4:07:49What is the bill where they can have a God damn, have to straight arm them and say that this and this and your man, nobody can see?
4:07:56No.
4:07:57He can't do it.
4:07:58He's not being very rational, is he?
4:08:01No, sir.
4:08:02I fear that Stuart Alsop probably called the Secretary of State to advise him in advance of the story that appears in the Newsweek this week, which is a bit of medicine, I expect, from Bill.
4:08:14Of course it is.
4:08:16Totally.
4:08:16Totally.
4:08:20I said to both of them...
4:08:45I said to both Bill Rydman and Henry Kissinger that, you know, couldn't they get together in my office this afternoon?
4:08:50And I was sure that, you know, I'll be in any further trouble.
4:08:55I didn't get a, let me put it this way, I didn't get an affirmative response from either one.
4:09:01I got a non-response.
4:09:04What'd they say?
4:09:05I didn't push it.
4:09:06You can't push it.
4:09:09Although I can say this, that
4:09:12Why don't you try to put him on a day later and leave this week?
4:09:17You could do that this year.
4:09:19L.A. just came in this June and said we're going to reschedule it.
4:09:23And I tell Bill Rogers that we are going to reschedule it.
4:09:26Because part of Bill's complaint was that
4:09:29He thought, no, it'll be, he thought, part of us that it wasn't, he thought that we'd be scheduled to deliver it.
4:09:36Well, this is not true.
4:09:38We asked him deliberately to be after his schedule.
4:09:41We waited for him.
4:09:42So that he would be the first one out.
4:09:46And so Henry would back him up on every point, which he has always done.
4:09:51Mr. President, Bill said to me last night and again this morning, I thought we had an agreement that you and Henry would advise me or consult with me before you set one of these things up.
4:10:01And I never thought we had such an understanding, and I so told him, and he said, well, it's my recollection.
4:10:06Well, anyway.
4:10:08Well.
4:10:08But was Bill's man present when you were setting up or something?
4:10:15Bill, the State Department guy was at that meeting on Friday.
4:10:18Friday afternoon.
4:10:19Why didn't he go tell him?
4:10:21Well, he's... You should have told him.
4:10:23Is that what he means?
4:10:24That's right.
4:10:25He said you or Henry should have consulted with me on the timing of everything.
4:10:29Okay, so the answer to that is, yeah, you're right, Bill, we should have.
4:10:33But now, you know, so we did.
4:10:35And we told your guy.
4:10:36What the hell difference does it make?
4:10:37I've also, Mr. President, tried with Bill Rogers, again, both last night at my home and this morning, to say...
4:10:44You know, how the House members feel that the Senators have been given something that they haven't enjoyed.
4:10:52And our House members support us, and we need them to support us on war powers and a lot of tough things that are coming along that may sail through the Senate.
4:10:59We've got to stop them in the House.
4:11:01And he told me that the conversation at your house last night was all to the point that the House members said they wouldn't go, that they would boycott Henry's hearing, that they were on Bill's side.
4:11:10If that was said to the Secretary of State, it was not said in my presence.
4:11:14He said it's a block, he said he wouldn't go, and then this was in the afternoon, and just the men were sitting around.
4:11:19Well, I imagine one would have said that.
4:11:22And then Wayne Hayes said, no, sir, he wouldn't.
4:11:26But Hayes said...
4:11:27to John Sherman Cooper.
4:11:28You'll have to take care of the Simonton award thing all by yourself because I'm going to be at the warehouse.
4:11:37ASIC?
4:11:37Yes.
4:11:39They'll also maybe start reading things into it.
4:11:44Bill should not allow them to stay.
4:11:46He should have said, you're a damn fool.
4:11:47You should go.
4:11:49That's what he should say.
4:11:50I should.
4:11:51Why doesn't he speak up and take, whether it's all part of the game or all that?
4:11:54For Christ's sakes.
4:11:56He doesn't want to do this damn thing.
4:11:58I should say.
4:11:59He's busy.
4:11:59He's busy as hell.
4:12:01I should say, Mr. President, that during the dinner, we had three tables of eight each.
4:12:05Bill Rogers was seated to my wife's right, and Clem Zablocki was at that table, and Clem brought up the whole question of the Kissinger-Rogers thing, and Bill knocked it down.
4:12:14Bill...
4:12:15Barbara said he very affirmatively just said why there isn't anything to that.
4:12:20I have the best relationship with Henry.
4:12:22We're both working for the president.
4:12:23Barbara said he was very effective during the visit in knocking it down.
4:12:27Well, that all happened after what the hell happened.
4:12:30Well, all I can conclude, Bob, is that...
4:12:32He found out about the briefing, which he didn't know about.
4:12:36He called it his own match of a total joke.
4:12:38Yeah.
4:12:39And, Mr. President,
4:12:41Perhaps I should have, you know, taken control of it.
4:12:43No, I don't think you've got to.
4:12:44You know, we do so much.
4:12:46But so much is, why do we have to call our own people if we have a guy there about us?
4:12:55You know.
4:12:55I know.
4:12:55Well, that's the point.
4:12:56You figure you notify him that you have this staff man.
4:12:59And also, what you've got is therefore not intentional.
4:13:01If you have this man, you're not trying to hide very... No, and we've had to reschedule the session with the House, which...
4:13:08The last schedule was Wednesday.
4:13:10We had to reschedule it three times.
4:13:12And I am of the opinion that I said to Dave Abshaw, now we've got to reschedule this thing with Henry, so knock it off your calendar for whatever the original date was.
4:13:22I can't prove that I said that, but it's my recollection, Mr. President, that I did.
4:13:29Do you think Abshaw knew about it as well as the other guys?
4:13:31Well, you're not right.
4:13:35Oh, God.
4:13:37If he did this, it was purely oversight, not intent.
4:13:44And they retired me at the very best.
4:13:48It's a problem, and Bill is extremely sensitive, and rightly so, about these damage attacks.
4:13:55He's got to realize the impact's real here, not the level of the impact.
4:14:01I mean, it's a little bit hard for Paul.
4:14:04Everybody's got a share of vanity for him.
4:14:06He's not realizing it.
4:14:07You remember.
4:14:10I didn't see Bill in here say, what can I do to defend Henry when Henry was under enormous detachment and he had vanished in that.
4:14:17Do you remember that?
4:14:18Yes, sir.
4:14:19They tore his living for Jesus.
4:14:20He dug himself, you know, practically.
4:14:22He was under enormous detachment.
4:14:25Did anybody call him and say, what can we do to help Henry?
4:14:28No, sir.
4:14:31In fairness, we have to realize that I've never seen Henry come to the state, but I've never heard what Bill said in the presence of your wife.
4:14:40Barbara said Bill handled it very skillfully and just sort of said, why?
4:14:44Glenn presented too bad.
4:14:46That's just a bunch of newspaper talk.
4:14:47But you see, the whole purpose of our influence is to create the impression that the administration is divided.
4:15:02It's, and also every, I thought like Bill should know better, he's been around in Washington a lot longer than Henry.
4:15:11But Clark, you know very well, it's par for the course.
4:15:15You always have to talk about who's gonna be thrown out, who's gonna stay in.
4:15:19Somebody is here for a little while.
4:15:21Somebody's a disfavor, somebody's an invader.
4:15:25And 90% of it's great.
4:15:26Isn't this true?
4:15:28It's just not true.
4:15:29And another thing, Mr. President,
4:15:31Nobody cares much about it except a small circle around Washington, D.C. or out of Minneapolis and I dare say Whittier and elsewhere.
4:15:39It doesn't matter.
4:15:40Sir, we don't know Whittier.
4:15:41We don't know who the hell they are.
4:15:44John Powell, a rock star.
4:15:46I'm a soda pop.
4:15:49Oh, that's sure true.
4:15:50It's like that Stuart Alsop column, you know, this be a...
4:15:55So even though there's a lot of turmoil in Washington, even though it's agreed it's about Congress, it doesn't change anything.
4:15:59Of course, the problem is these folks move in these social circles.
4:16:03Bill has written something in which there was also written that they're lacking in the Secretary of State.
4:16:07And so forth.
4:16:09Bill believes this.
4:16:09And to give a last laugh after the press,
4:16:22And that is not true either.
4:16:23I don't think they are either.
4:16:26Well, some of them in that incestuous little group, some of them probably are.
4:16:30Because they need a lot of diplomats.
4:16:31They just don't know about the diplomats.
4:16:34Well, they matter.
4:16:35He's Secretary of State.
4:16:36They are a whole different matter.
4:16:39I could see last night that George and Lola Akin and Johnny Truman and Lorraine Cooper are very respectful of the Secretary of State and Mrs. Rogers.
4:16:49I'm not sure.
4:16:50I didn't see any indication
4:16:52Anybody who was there last night, Bill Meyer and his wife were there.
4:16:56They know the game.
4:16:57They know what this is all about.
4:16:59This is it.
4:17:00The only way you can lose to that kind of thing is if you react as a back.
4:17:04It's the only way.
4:17:05I guess we'll put out a story in the effect of Robert's insistence.
4:17:23It's Doc Morgan's inability to be there.
4:17:28I will say that on my own initiative, I rescheduled it because it wouldn't be right, I know this from 10 years of experience now, to have a session when the chairman of the committee could not be present because they're having a discussion about it.
4:17:42So they can hear.
4:17:48Let me ask you one other thing.
4:17:57Bob was, I was talking about
4:18:08all the work that he's done and so forth.
4:18:10Do you think as we get further along, we're going to run into some problems with some parts of the flags and so forth?
4:18:17I'm wondering.
4:18:19I'm wondering, you know, you've got it right in there.
4:18:21Maybe I think you may have to sort of reduce it to your Republicans.
4:18:23I think we will.
4:18:24You see my point?
4:18:25I thought...
4:18:26I thought it was going to happen.
4:18:27I said, I don't think so.
4:18:28I don't think so.
4:18:29I said, you're pressing on a piece of it.
4:18:35No, I think you're right.
4:18:37Right.
4:18:38You know, the basic idea was sound.
4:18:41But I think you're right.
4:18:43And what we looked at was the...
4:18:58We look at war powers and we look at this business and all the things that are going through the Senate and we're going to say to the House Foreign Affairs Committee, you know, you've got to stand up for the Senate.
4:19:08You've got to do it differently.
4:19:09I think in terms of the future, you've got to realize that we're a part of the game.
4:19:18Does he really, to the letter, he's fighting like hell all these months to get the picture in?
4:19:25I don't require, I wouldn't let any of your people get into it.
4:19:26He stirred up his courage and his hearts and said, Jesus Christ, it's going to get a lot rougher.
4:19:36I mean, you take this whole idea, and I agree with you on that.
4:19:41But once you look at it from the merits,
4:19:43So, in everything we've said, we've gone very far.
4:19:46Heidi and Pete's stock goes down 12 points today, and the announcement was made.
4:19:51They might have a $2 billion investment.
4:19:54They didn't like the sentiment.
4:19:55Janine bitched about the goddamn sentiment.
4:19:58So the second, they both testified and are honorable guys, and for sure they had different ideas.
4:20:04The third one, though, is the most important, is that in terms of the
4:20:18because of the contribution.
4:20:19Let us assume that this works, that we were unbanking, banking, and all that stuff.
4:20:31Does anybody in the joint mind think that the Justice Department would make a settlement because of a stinking little contribution made by the shared hotels?
4:20:39We went to four hotels in San Diego for your identification.
4:20:41They wouldn't even, because God, they can get that money from any place.
4:20:44You know, it's the way it is.
4:20:45So you've got to just ride it through.
4:20:46It's too bad, isn't it?
4:20:47That's the game.
4:20:48It sure is today.
4:20:51We have tried to...
4:20:54I should say I have tried to determine some strategy to bring hearings to an early termination.
4:21:02No way.
4:21:02Because whereas Jim Eastland likes conservative judges that you appoint and has been helpful in the Justice Department in other ways, he is, after all, a Democrat and one...
4:21:16I...
4:21:17and say to him, we ought to try and terminate these hearings before the end of next week.
4:21:21He said, well, I've got four senators on my committee who've asked me for these witnesses.
4:21:26And he said, I can't very well say no.
4:21:29So he is not going to be helpful to us in this country.
4:21:45Thank you very much, Chris.
4:21:46You're welcome, Bob.
4:21:49Well, I'll let your teeth on you.
4:21:50No, I regret this.
4:26:50Do you have any proof?
4:27:23No, I don't.
4:27:25I haven't gotten any more since we talked.
4:27:33Hopefully we can get some today.
4:27:34Mitchell this morning said they were eating bait.
4:27:39He thought they were getting some.
4:27:43He didn't ask me that.
4:27:44He said it's...
4:27:46But he had that in his report.
4:27:51Do you think we're going to be...
4:27:54I don't think you accomplish anything there.
4:28:02You throw maybe to the wolves that the wolves just take the order.
4:28:11They're going to run right out and buy it.
4:28:22Their interest is in claims at this point.
4:28:29I'm interested in the bill.
4:28:32I'm glad we have Clark in.
4:28:34He did speak up that it was a blocking thing.
4:28:37But he does.
4:28:38But then what in the hell is he talking about?
4:28:41Is he playing two level games at it?
4:28:47He does.
4:28:48In his interviews, he does a good job on that.
4:28:50He answers that question very well.
4:28:52And he keeps going back to the, we've got a good one policy and it's working.
4:29:03That's the test of whether the setup is right or not.
4:29:09No problem.
4:29:11See, he has to, for his own public interest,
4:29:14His public posture has got to be that everything is just fine.
4:29:22His people drop all their believable things, etc.
4:29:26And then he believes that as well as being pushed by that.
4:29:32So he gets all disturbed internally.
4:30:06The people saw the speech, saw your speech.
4:30:26Over the edge, that's what I'm hearing.
4:30:36They didn't say what the people thought.
4:30:39The people were out ahead of the commentators.
4:30:48Hmm.
4:30:49Yeah, which is why I get the speech going.
4:30:53Listening ears, or accepting ears.
4:31:00Why not all of you, starting down?
4:31:03Just about right.
4:31:04I mean...
4:31:08to start on our auditory programs.
4:31:14And I guess there's really not a better thing to do than a press conference.
4:31:19I've just thought it all through.
4:31:22It's better than a speech.
4:31:23And it's better than a parade.
4:31:25We talked about those other kinds of Q&As.
4:31:28And you just, nobody else asks the questions, right?
4:31:31And also, if you have a problem, you can't even carry it.
4:31:34You're going to be bound in Detroit.
4:31:41That was so good, but it wasn't as good as the press conference.
4:31:44It wasn't.
4:31:44No, we didn't have a spark.
4:31:45It also couldn't carry it.
4:31:50Remember?
4:31:51Yeah, just wanted to say that.
4:31:55Regional.
4:31:55I think the main thing to do is to go right ahead and try to bust one out of there about every three weeks.
4:32:02Is that correct?
4:32:03Yep.
4:32:04And do it on TV.
4:32:05And let them carry it.
4:32:08Because they will.
4:32:09As soon as you go back on TV, they'll start streaming the TV and television.
4:32:11That's the plan.
4:32:14Good.
4:32:15Then when you're not on, then they'll say, oh, I thought you had the television.
4:32:18That's been sold out for them.
4:32:19They're asking to hear about a localized press conference.
4:32:23Yeah.
4:32:24All right.
4:32:25They're going to get them out.
4:32:32Right, Nick?
4:32:33Right.
4:32:33Good choice.
4:32:34Correct.
4:32:34I can see this.
4:32:35He's a fighter, too.
4:32:37And it just burned to his ass, and it was a little squeal as we changed the date of this meeting, and that's it.
4:32:45Yeah.
4:32:46That's about it.
4:32:47Thank you for your statement.
4:32:50You know, and because he... Yeah.
4:32:53He's worried about being placed.
4:32:55I don't miss it at all.
4:32:56It's all about it.
4:33:08Oh, why not?
4:33:09It's going to be quite an hour.
4:33:13Is it?
4:33:16One of us is going to get so near to that door.
4:33:19Where is it?

Nixon, Haldeman & MacGregor on William P. Rogers and Henry A. Kissinger

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on March 13, 1972

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