Nixon, Passman & Kissinger on Foreign Aid and Legislative Relations

5:02:49How are you?
5:02:50I don't know what you're talking about.
5:02:52One of them was the CEO of that city.
5:02:54And you've got a strong grip?
5:02:55Yes, sir.
5:02:55Strong grip, strong grip.
5:02:57Okay, so that's what everybody says.
5:03:01What do you got in your hand?
5:03:02Is that a pistol?
5:03:03No, no, no.
5:03:04I'm hoping that I have one of your pencils.
5:03:05Oh, yeah.
5:03:06He said I don't do this sort of trick right now before he says it.
5:03:09Yeah.
5:03:10Thank you.
5:03:10Good.
5:03:11Yeah.
5:03:12No, I'm going to tell you that one.
5:03:15You don't need to give anything to anybody.
5:03:18You just, you know, they know you.
5:03:19I see you have a photographer here.
5:03:24Oh, absolutely.
5:03:27Now, let's do that.
5:03:29Now, listen, I'm going to try and not get a profile.
5:03:36Yes, sir.
5:03:37Good to see you again.
5:03:43We're gonna make it a little reason we're close because I know our target is to, they drafted me long enough to turn.
5:03:50They need to go back and draft me.
5:03:51They don't want to punch me.
5:03:53They need to go back.
5:04:06You got another one?
5:04:08No, I promised 15, but I couldn't see it.
5:04:13I did it for radio, I mean telephone.
5:04:21Yes, the church, the auditorium, 12,000, and we've got the theater, 3,000.
5:04:35We had about pretty close to 7,000 outside.
5:04:37We anticipated such a meeting, so we set up that.
5:04:41Outside, it was a madness meeting, and it was all so definite.
5:04:44That's what I understand.
5:04:46Yeah, we had a little time getting that through, remember?
5:04:49Yeah, we had a little bit.
5:04:50Yeah, one thing, we were so nervous that the man operating was going to get through.
5:04:57Well, Tommy, how do you get along with all your prima donnas?
5:05:02It's a terrible situation we have there.
5:05:04I don't know how we could run this country without you and George Mayotte just in here.
5:05:07I don't know how we could do it.
5:05:09You have more trouble with the Republicans than the Democrats.
5:05:14I guess the Republicans are with you more than the Democrats.
5:05:17I have more trouble with the Republicans than the Democrats.
5:05:20I have more trouble with the Republicans than the Democrats.
5:05:27My trouble, of course, then, from Mr. Fulbright and Mr. Elder and Mr. Frostmire, I don't know, just the micro-fractures there.
5:05:35But if you do your homework, you don't have too much trouble.
5:05:40Yeah, well, if you know more than they do about it, that's the whole trick.
5:05:44It's still a mighty trouble if they've got these smart young guys working for them.
5:05:49Well, I don't know.
5:05:50I can't comment.
5:05:50What can you do on the security assistance?
5:05:52Can you save them for us?
5:05:54Yes, I want to make an observation and give you some facts.
5:05:58Right.
5:05:58You stop that kicking out when you're ready.
5:06:00All right.
5:06:02Only one other man in Washington knows this, it's Barrett Goldwater.
5:06:05I called Barrett Goldwater several years ago and asked if he would come to my station for a third party address on 33... Oh yeah, Barrett Goldwater.
5:06:17So Barrett was sent to John Rosewood Island.
5:06:18You know, I was a Republican race, Republican in the last four years, and I changed my party affiliation because
5:06:28I couldn't run for public office.
5:06:29We didn't have a Republican.
5:06:31He was never so glad to vote for her.
5:06:33I'm not a Democrat.
5:06:34I'm not ugly about my party because I'm a member of the Democratic Party because there's only really one party in the state of Louisiana.
5:06:42I have nothing to sell.
5:06:44I don't want to buy anything.
5:06:46But I'd like you to appreciate my position better to know that background, that I've only voted Democratic twice in my life, in the National Elections.
5:06:57I'm historically Republican.
5:06:59They get pretty liberal, too, you know.
5:07:01And I might as well be in proud of my own party.
5:07:03I don't know some of these birds on the hill, Pete, opposed to you.
5:07:06So I'm not a renegade.
5:07:09And I won't be one of these hell-brained persons to know that I supported you the first time for Christmas towards the last time, and I'm supporting you this time, and I mean enthusiastically, but I'm not doing it in such a way to be classed, you understand, or radical.
5:07:26I'm doing it the right way.
5:07:29And usually, my people follow me pretty closely.
5:07:31I'm not coming in and making a fool of myself.
5:07:35Now, I don't embrace all of your policy.
5:07:37You know that.
5:07:38You're asking policy.
5:07:39I, ooh, gee, I get so angry sometimes.
5:07:41I'm at war with my father-in-law and my friend.
5:07:43But it's something we do without answering your question.
5:07:48As you well know, I say, I didn't do anything.
5:07:51We, this is your full year of support and assistance for the Miami military, because we had facts.
5:07:59And I had the face on the other side of me.
5:08:02and not so sleep these same Jews on the ground.
5:08:05Now, Mr. Gold on my side was Levin Zeebo, on the foot of his I-61 right now.
5:08:12So we had him outgunned because he had, he had been inflexible.
5:08:17Now, as far as I'm concerned, I keep saying my word, or my offering, that I am going to pull out your supportive citizens
5:08:30And I'm going to put out your literary program, your statistics program.
5:08:36I had to work very closely with John Hanna.
5:08:39You know, he's a delight.
5:08:41He's one of the most terrific men that I've ever dealt with in my life.
5:08:44He's an old horse trader.
5:08:45He puts it on the line.
5:08:47Mr. Chairman, we're just asking price, but taking price.
5:08:49Let's get along with hearings.
5:08:51And if you're asking price, we'll be open to decide on taking price.
5:08:54Sure, you're welcome.
5:08:55I said, no, no, John Hannon, no, no, John Hannon, if he fired him, I'd give him the chair.
5:09:00He's the only man I've ever been able to work with.
5:09:02And we get along on everything.
5:09:04It's both terrific, and I'd say the same thing, the courage that he would have worked with.
5:09:09He is wide awake and aggressive.
5:09:13So fortunately, I have tested people I've worked with.
5:09:17Now, I apologize for sounding off.
5:09:20I'm greatly concerned, Mr. President, about two things.
5:09:25We came to Congress together 26 years ago.
5:09:29I've never been a foreign aid enthusiast.
5:09:32I'm greatly worried about multilateral foreign aid.
5:09:36You have some people in the Congress who are determined that they will destroy 5908 or 7248.
5:09:44Let me just say this before you go on so that you'll know our feeling.
5:09:52One day,
5:09:54If you have not done so, then I can't agree with this particular ranking.
5:10:01I want you to express your concern about that to Connolly.
5:10:04Connolly, you see, sits in the driver's seat.
5:10:07He is exactly the same way.
5:10:08I might overstate it and have to do it, but the second point is we're concerned about all that thing.
5:10:13Now, the point is, though, and I notice whenever you get to your list, I see all those things in that slide.
5:10:20But the point that I make is, Otto,
5:10:25It's not only making the case, but it's also
5:10:33It's also getting the Congress to do enough in other areas.
5:10:38You know, if you're going to do it, you've got to do it one way or the other.
5:10:42And in the multilateral field, we have to be sure that since we put up so much money, we've got to have more to say with how the money's spent.
5:10:51Isn't that your concern?
5:10:52I mean, we put up all that money, and they spend it any way they please.
5:10:55It's worse than that, Mr. President.
5:10:57Better agree with the states.
5:10:58This will make sure development long-term.
5:11:01Which I think, I don't know, Tom, I should develop a loan for 100,000, I'm delayed.
5:11:06Oh, this account, this whole country, I don't know, we're up to date on possibly one stock.
5:11:13Even the country book of diplomatic relationship, our country is still paying their development loans.
5:11:18It's coming back in.
5:11:19So it's coming back.
5:11:21Now let's look at just one statement of your mother.
5:11:23I believe that is your item in the National Development Association.
5:11:29This started off many years ago.
5:11:31They wanted 180 million, three $60 installments.
5:11:34I touched about that, but we went along with them and didn't cut it.
5:11:39We gave them three $60 million installments today.
5:11:44Therein, the total amount they're asking for item is a median of $656 million, I believe.
5:11:52But I want to get the right ones.
5:11:56I'm going to leave this with you.
5:11:58So actually, they're up to $320 million a year.
5:12:03and asking this year for a supplemental out to go to the year that's coming to them now, plus $321.03 to $604 million as compared to six of the previous.
5:12:14Now, what do you have here?
5:12:17I'm going to leave the term 50 years, no interest.
5:12:23Three-quarters of one percent are no interest at any time.
5:12:27Terms, 10-year grace period, no repayment at all.
5:12:34In subsequent 10 years, one percent per year.
5:12:37So at the end of the 20 years, if they keep their installments, they will return 10 percent for the right of cancellation.
5:12:44comes back and nothing, no prediction for any of it to ever come back into the U.S. Treasury.
5:12:49Now, the Asian Development Bank, the same thing.
5:12:51It goes out, no prediction for anything to come back in American Development Bank.
5:12:55So I'm writing to these people.
5:12:56I thought you were going to throw me out on the head.
5:12:58I've been given these people.
5:12:59I'm sure to tell on this much, but I am determined to cut it.
5:13:03And I've insisted that these people not go out and give us these entanglements until we have had an opportunity
5:13:11to look this thing over.
5:13:12Of course, they always say this is a breakfast program.
5:13:16We're a great band with that.
5:13:18They don't have all the answers.
5:13:20And so, less reverses if we can because then we complete control.
5:13:26We know not when the project is funded, in what country, and in what amount.
5:13:32It's just, we have no other detail in town.
5:13:35It's just fine check.
5:13:37I'm not overstating the case.
5:13:39On your other program,
5:13:40There's nothing that you would ask for that I won't fight for, and I'll do so in such a way that I'll be successful.
5:13:46You can just rest your case that I'm going to fight for your supporting assistance and your military assistance program because I'm very committed to what you're doing, including the Vietnam War, only a fool would admit that, and I look into quite a few fools.
5:14:03Yes, I'm one of their dancers, because he's working for that, but I'm looking for you to do anything.
5:14:11cost us 17 years, and we're down to some 43,000 over the five years old, you're going to reduce the cost to about a billion one.
5:14:20It's only going to cost about a billion five, so the net cost is 400 million.
5:14:23Now, I don't care what Mr. Fulbright and Mr. Bruck are, these people do.
5:14:29If they don't have authorization that will block me, you can just get all the vouchers before they're sued.
5:14:38You're going to call the shots.
5:14:39That's confidential.
5:14:40Tell me what you want.
5:14:41That's what you're going to get.
5:14:43Now, there's just two areas that I'm going to raise hell in, and that's Marshall Island and the police.
5:14:51I don't want to say anything.
5:14:55You have a very fine young man.
5:14:56I don't like him very much.
5:14:59But this good life is right.
5:15:00I don't say anything.
5:15:01I'm sharing it with you.
5:15:08This thing has cost over a billion dollars.
5:15:12Over a billion, 61 billion dollars is what that thing cost.
5:15:17How do you like this?
5:15:18They have 10, Ron, 14 countries.
5:15:21There is reason.
5:15:22Get out.
5:15:22Oh, yes, they have.
5:15:31and they've been asked to leave for different reasons.
5:15:34Fourteen countries, now this is this, not one by-law or technical aid employee has ever been asked to leave the country, even if they break off.
5:15:46And they have never known what they needed.
5:15:50This is the key factor.
5:15:52But not to mention the social fact that you'll send a job for one of the other.
5:15:58What are you going to do about it?
5:16:01Here's what I did on the East Coast.
5:16:03I want to be fair with these people.
5:16:05The racial place was put up in 72 last year.
5:16:09And I was 50 to the job before I would have given them any more than a 72.
5:16:13As such, one day they came back.
5:16:16Well, I say you violated every law in this tax code.
5:16:19We have lobbied 50,500 four-page letters to every Peace Corpsman on the face of the earth, 30,000 letters to every former Peace Corpsman, 8,000 letters to all parents of Peace Corpsmen, and 2,500 letters to every member active.
5:16:33You violated every law.
5:16:35Well, that's my business.
5:16:36I don't mean to say that.
5:16:39No, I mean that I sent the GAO down.
5:16:43But you can't put your finger on any good.
5:16:50It's the magic.
5:16:51It's completely committed to these accomplishments.
5:16:53And if they don't flow down loud, I have to waste a lot of my time on these things.
5:16:59Now, I can assure you that you'll have no trouble just giving me John Allen.
5:17:08Let me know the name of him.
5:17:11And of course, before I had to do this, I called out.
5:17:15And I called the minister.
5:17:16I said, you can just let me call it over.
5:17:18Do you know what a pipeline is?
5:17:21Yeah.
5:17:21Well, get this money in there.
5:17:23Know what I mean?
5:17:26Then when you've obligated it, you give them the legislation operating on contained resolution, put it on the pipeline.
5:17:32How could you cut it back to $350 million and put $199 billion in the pipeline?
5:17:35You see, these people ought to use their heads up more than hang their hat on.
5:17:42You have no words with anything in place except for the Lord God.
5:17:48And that's the only two.
5:17:50And let me ask this, if we could do this, I would have an understanding.
5:17:56We don't ever want to believe.
5:17:59Oh, I'm fine.
5:18:01I'm there to see.
5:18:03I sent that to everybody.
5:18:04I sent one to call me.
5:18:05The first thing, he's going to 16 days a year.
5:18:07Don't tell me more.
5:18:08I don't know.
5:18:09I don't know.
5:18:11What I was trying to say is we'll give you the code, but there may be an occasion when Henry will have to call you.
5:18:21And if he calls, I don't want to put you on that kind of a spot.
5:18:25I will never do it.
5:18:26But only if I think the national security is involved.
5:18:29There may be an occasion where on something that will really have to happen, and I'll have Dick do it and say, Henry, don't use it.
5:18:38Well, he never does.
5:18:39We don't use the big gun, and he is the big gun on this sort of thing, unless it's needed.
5:18:46But your relationship is, you understand what I mean.
5:18:49Now, for example, what if I take someplace like Cambodia?
5:18:56We might have a very serious problem there.
5:18:58We just got to have some money.
5:19:00We may have to call you.
5:19:02I have said, you'll hear from Matt, you'll hear from Henry, put the money.
5:19:05Will you do that?
5:19:05I have given you my word.
5:19:07We won't ask you unless it's national security.
5:19:09As far as things like Peace Corps and the rest, you've got to make up your mind.
5:19:14Do you understand?
5:19:14Well, I didn't know if the person who suggested it, they said, back me up 100%.
5:19:18I said, is he going to be passed when it's going to be the indictment?
5:19:21It's separate to the national.
5:19:23I actually gave it separate to the campaign.
5:19:26And since we gave them separate iPods,
5:19:29I began getting very high when I actually got caught in line.
5:19:33And I told you, I was listening to you gentlemen, but I didn't find some major conviction.
5:19:37We had to defend him.
5:19:38So I had Mr. Kistinger, Dr. Kistinger, you, Mr. Freddie, caught me three times a day at the meeting.
5:19:43And I was, my apology was, no, I'm the president, Richard L. Nixon, who you don't know.
5:19:48Good.
5:19:49Well, we're not doing that.
5:19:50We won't ask you for your thoughts.
5:19:53You're not going to ask for anything.
5:19:56We don't want to waste any money.
5:19:59I must say, Connelly, who is looking into this, he's not safe.
5:20:04But he is a traitor.
5:20:07You see, he's on all fours.
5:20:10And he became horrified.
5:20:13He says, you see, the main trouble is, this is just...
5:20:17It just isn't the interest, the other thing you've mentioned.
5:20:20But it's whether or not the aid is doing any good for us.
5:20:24Whether these countries are going to have an aid, a country that hasn't given us a team.
5:20:27We're not going to have to buy a lot of money.
5:20:30Honestly, we don't need to get along with a lot of money.
5:20:33We can control the other countries.
5:20:36And at first, college is great.
5:20:39It's great.
5:20:40But...
5:20:42He meets with Mr. Mahon and Mr. Bolton.
5:20:44I'm the guy that's going to decide what level he's going to be.
5:20:48It might be that he wants to talk to me, actually.
5:20:50Now, I don't intend to have any circumstances to put anything that my president wants, he's going to get.
5:20:57I must have that understood.
5:21:00Well, look, and you, uh...
5:21:05You know, between now and the time you're in Russia, you can't do that.
5:21:31and all sorts of things.
5:21:33Well, the invitation came through, but some of them, they put this guy's pressure on me.
5:21:40He wants the power to do the mission.
5:21:42I'm very much impressed, okay.
5:21:45And he wants it there.
5:24:06We're going to have a Baptist preaching here Sunday.
5:24:07The head of the Southern Baptist Church.
5:24:11His name is, I don't know, you probably know.
5:25:37No problem.
5:25:41Don't hesitate to let me know if there's any difference of opinion.
5:25:46We'll talk it through.
5:25:47What about your wife?
5:25:51You're going to your secretary.
5:26:07You've got another man.
5:26:14There's all you've got.
5:26:20That opens up for all your old girls.
5:26:27This is wonderful.
5:26:29How many secretaries do you have?
5:26:30You always curve them all.
5:26:31Do you remember, Dick?
5:26:33Mr. President, Mr. Redsburg came to work.
5:26:35I have three offices.
5:26:38No, don't tell me.
5:26:38Wait, no.
5:26:39Three offices, 14 secretaries.
5:26:40So 14 only have it?
5:26:42Yes, I have five up here.
5:26:43No, I have nine up here.
5:26:44Nine.
5:26:44I have 65, 68 by the last of the year.

Nixon, Passman & Kissinger on Foreign Aid and Legislative Relations

AI Summary

Audio

Transcript (AI-generated)

NARA Description

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on March 13, 1972

Cite this conversation