Nixon, Colson & Clawson on ITT scandal and Dita Beard memorandum

5:32:48But there's an old strain.
5:32:53I can go tomorrow or later this afternoon.
5:34:38Mr. James Keele.
5:34:41He was barred off by our staff.
5:35:20That's him, Mr. President.
5:35:21Hi, how are you?
5:35:22Mr. President, this is Ken Foster.
5:35:23Yeah, sure.
5:35:24Mr. Lee, you've met him.
5:35:25Yeah, I've met him, sir.
5:35:27See you.
5:35:28See you.
5:35:29Thank you.
5:35:34Thank you.
5:35:53Well, I find it was very easy to make the transition from Mrs. Graham to over here.
5:35:57You know, I was just thinking, I just got a call from Jim Keele, somebody.
5:36:00He said he'd come in very, very late.
5:36:08I tell you, Don, you know, it's like Thomas Wolfe's, you know, I'm convinced that we can't go home again.
5:36:16Right.
5:36:16We can't go home again, for sure.
5:36:18I figured by April 11th, they might, they might.
5:36:22The real problem, I think, that our national press have, and I mean, I don't all have, but it's a, we all know that everybody in government is too damn sensitive about press criticism and any other kind of criticism.
5:36:36But I think perhaps some of the press have to learn to be
5:36:42I'm not so sensitive about criticism, and I'm just assuming that every time somebody says anything, they're trying to repress them.
5:36:48That's what it is.
5:36:49They're trying to repress them.
5:36:51I mean, obviously guys and freshmen make mistakes, just like these guys.
5:36:56Hello?
5:36:58Yeah.
5:36:59Hello?
5:37:01Jim, I wanted you to know that they just brought me in an autographed copy of your book.
5:37:07I can't tell you that I read it, but I just looked at the titles, and I imagine it's very good reading.
5:37:13I hope that some people have the good sense to buy it.
5:37:16If they don't get that, I'm going to see that some of my friends receive copies of it.
5:37:21But don't give it, let me tell you, we're going to buy it.
5:37:24And it sounds extremely interesting.
5:37:26Is it going to, do you think anybody will review it, or will they black you out?
5:37:36Well, they sort of sank that effort, but I don't think they could review it much.
5:37:41But in your case, I guess they really have to review yours because of the position you held, don't you think?
5:37:48Right.
5:37:50Well, boy, I hope they do.
5:37:52And as I say, I'm just sitting here with Cam Glossman, who's come with us now.
5:37:58He used to be in one of the publications here in town.
5:38:05And I just said, you can't go home again now.
5:38:11That's your problem.
5:38:12Yeah, I hope you enjoy it.
5:38:13And I hope your other opus is coming along well, too.
5:38:21Right.
5:38:23Yeah, I talked to them, and I got ahold of them.
5:38:24I tried to get the kids, me and others, I'm trying to recall them.
5:38:30I just, you know, things of that sort are so hard to recall, but I think they've probably given you a little flavor.
5:38:38Yeah, right.
5:38:40Right.
5:38:46This is on a personal stuff, yeah.
5:38:52Close.
5:38:52Oh, shame.
5:38:54Boy, those are the hardest things to find.
5:39:08Well, okay.
5:39:09Well, we mentioned, I'll see that I talk your book up without ever having read it.
5:39:15Don't, but don't, but assume I never read it.
5:39:18You see, I would knock down my credentials as being an only thing if I read a book.
5:39:25Yeah, it ought to.
5:39:26Okay.
5:39:27Well, I give our best to you.
5:39:28Bye.
5:39:40Well, let's go.
5:39:41Where did you, uh, you, uh, you, uh,
5:39:50That's where Ben Bradley recruited me.
5:39:52That's right.
5:39:53And then you, before that, were you looking close to... No, I worked for Paul Block Jr. Cools.
5:39:58Toledo?
5:39:59Toledo, Pittsburgh, Monterey, California.
5:40:01Monterey, what a wonderful place.
5:40:02Have you ever been to that?
5:40:03I made one quick visit with Paul Block.
5:40:04I used to know the fellow that used to have that picture.
5:40:07He's a farmer guy, and A.I.D., and a black farmer.
5:40:22But I'd like to know.
5:40:25That's like the Philadelphia Bulletin people bought the Santa Barbara Free Press.
5:40:30There's only one reason to buy it.
5:40:32That is because it's a nice place to go to.
5:40:34Monterey is a wonderful place to go to visit.
5:40:36Oh, and I should ask you for a mention on the bill.
5:40:39Oh, yes, it does.
5:40:40Because it's in an area where...
5:40:43or people who know about that.
5:40:44And actually, there are just an awful lot of papers in smaller towns, suburban towns, and just on my campus.
5:40:51I think that's good.
5:40:52Return on the investment is much, much higher.
5:40:57That's very good.
5:40:58Yeah.
5:40:58I was originally a labor reporter out of the southern state of Michigan.
5:41:02You were from Detroit?
5:41:03Yes.
5:41:03Oh, yeah.
5:41:05I hear Mr. Hoppe, when he was only president of Local 299, he tried... You know, I feel a little bit, uh, a little bit, uh, denied that I was one of the few people in the government that never met Jack Motto.
5:41:13One time, somebody told me, after I got off the plane, I think when I was vice president, we didn't have any, I don't even know if it was the government, I'm not sure, I didn't know if it was a direct commercial,
5:41:35In fact, before her and I drove back, it was almost sitting across from the next, that was Jimmy Hoffa.
5:41:49They say he's quite a guy.
5:41:52I knew him, I knew Dave Beck, who was quite a guy, too.
5:41:55I mean, he may have been pregnant, but maybe Hoffa was.
5:41:58But I'll tell you, there was nothing wrong with his backbone.
5:42:02because of God, which often impresses me.
5:42:04I mean, I don't mean it simply because a person has guts that he has the right to the credit, but nevertheless, these spineless morals that run around, they don't send me none at all.
5:42:18It was very true.
5:42:19Hypocrisy and sanctimonious softness, and they aren't the kind of things that make countries
5:42:28When Jimmy gave his word at the bargaining table, you could count on it for the duration of that conversation.
5:42:32The same is true of Dave Beckham.
5:42:34All the people up there in Seattle swore by him right back.
5:42:38They said to Jim, I mean, you know, God, they have the old man.
5:42:44Of course, we didn't know him.
5:42:45He was a test driver.
5:42:47But Beckham was a follower of the command.
5:42:52I don't know.
5:42:52I don't know.
5:42:53I watched Jimmy go through issues and answers with the president about three weeks ago, four weeks ago.
5:42:56I mean, look.
5:42:58He did.
5:42:58He put out one of the most impressive performances.
5:43:02Did he?
5:43:02I've seen a man on television do it.
5:43:05He was spurring.
5:43:06He was crisp.
5:43:07His words were well-chosen.
5:43:08He asked quick with his answers.
5:43:11And he gave that impression of real guts.
5:43:14I mean, he gave the impression of a strong, determined character.
5:43:17It's quite interesting to hear that.
5:43:19And as Chuck and I said to each other later, we couldn't have written a better script.
5:43:23Oh, that's right.
5:43:24Oh, he was just great.
5:43:26He really was.
5:43:27He was asked who he would endorse this year, and he said he wouldn't endorse anyone.
5:43:32At this point, he wasn't good.
5:43:33And then he said, he was asked, who do you think is the best qualified man in the prison?
5:43:38And he said, well, Melvin Wilcox.
5:43:41And he said, well, he asked if I'd been here now, and I think it's, I think Richard Henson's the only man.
5:43:46I have tea.
5:43:47Would you like tea or coffee?
5:43:49He called us all up seven years ago.
5:43:52Yes, sir.
5:43:52He called me.
5:43:53He's got a heart that's strong.
5:43:55Sure does.
5:43:55He's so strong.
5:43:58And he said he's the only man who's as well as I do.
5:44:29that you will find as a former member of the press, at least on sabbatical and the
5:44:43But it's pretty difficult, you know what I mean?
5:44:47I mean, it was difficult for Clark and all of us.
5:44:50He was a proud, decent guy for the press to get.
5:44:53I'm sure he enjoyed it, but he was laughing it back.
5:44:57I'm sure you may find the same thing.
5:44:58I think it's good, however, for those who have been honest members of the press to be in the administration for a while, to see the other side of the living glass, and to realize that
5:45:11You know, I found that the trouble with Charlie and I is that we're so much alike that the rumors
5:45:39See, he's a Marine.
5:45:39That's why he finds all his problems.
5:45:42Well, maybe not so.
5:45:43Go ahead.
5:45:45No, I think that I tried to, when I was writing for the Post and covering you, which, by the way, the three trips to California in 1970 made a Republican out of my wife, we covered you on all three of those California trips.
5:45:58Yeah.
5:46:00But we tried to write fairly about you, and that's how I got to know Charlie and Fred Malick and some of the other people.
5:46:07You got to know Malick.
5:46:08He's a great fellow.
5:46:10And I was one of the temptations of joining you was the caliber of person you had working for you.
5:46:15They are.
5:46:16They're good men.
5:46:17They call us like we call them.
5:46:21Because we pay them.
5:46:25Well, it's too bad you had to step right into something like, what is it, IT?
5:46:30Thank goodness he stepped into it, Mr. President.
5:46:32He's so... Well, it's one of those things where I mean, I was looking for...
5:47:00And your name ditched him.
5:47:02He was never recovered.
5:47:04His side was never recovered.
5:47:06His name ditched him.
5:47:07They had to spin off, which was apparently the best one.
5:47:11Of course, he was a big loser.
5:47:13I don't know what the others were.
5:47:17Davis, Davis, Davis was pretty funny.
5:47:20The second part of the settlement, now the point was that even though it was not a settlement, it was a much more ambitious country, was the settlement lineup was a fix.
5:47:33Well, Griswold, let's leave out McClain.
5:47:36Griswold was a man we inherited from the Graves' administration, a paragon of virtue, a folly that everybody thinks is above the law.
5:47:44People who was raving about him, he continued in the solicitor general, he's just very conceited.
5:47:50He knew that he'd get his ass beat in the Supreme Court.
5:47:54Griswold didn't like to lose cases.
5:47:55It's like he didn't like to lose the Pentagon papers case.
5:47:58Although he argued, well,
5:48:01So, there's that, and all the lyrics, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the,
5:48:30Well, because the Sheraton Hotels gave $100,000 to the San Diego host committee.
5:48:33Now, is anybody in his right mind thinking that would be a consideration in particular in case of any influence on the White House?
5:48:44My God, I might even get money for a convention.
5:48:48It's easy as possible, but I can't get the day out.
5:48:51That's easy.
5:48:51I don't need more than going to San Diego.
5:48:53My choice was Chicago.
5:48:54That was where Robin and I stayed out.
5:48:56And I was for Chicago first, San Diego second, Miami third, those were mine.
5:49:00But I said, take any one of the three.
5:49:03But nevertheless, there's your problem.
5:49:06Now, obviously, you've got the case.
5:49:08And I must say, though you do get reasonable credit, it's very uncultured.
5:49:17What's the latest in today?
5:49:18Well, a few things have been crystal-spread.
5:49:22The Crooks letter I employed reasonably well.
5:49:26We didn't get more time to give a special break.
5:49:29The Post carried it.
5:49:30CBS had it last night.
5:49:32But more importantly than that, it's created a little bit of a stir for people that began to ask questions.
5:49:38leaking out some bits and pieces of information that may come out tomorrow that is going to get to some real questions of credibility in the memorandum.
5:49:49How long, really, can the thing that I think is important is that, having been an old investigator, just keep it going.
5:49:57Are they going to keep it going so long?
5:49:59I don't think there's any way you can stop it.
5:50:03Somebody was saying, for example, well, if Clandy's just withdraw his name and stop everything else,
5:50:08Well, they just continued to get a little blood.
5:50:09Do you agree?
5:50:10Oh, I agree wholeheartedly.
5:50:11I mean, I thought somebody came in here and got me through a lot of the office.
5:50:13I said, well, it's not very false or wrong.
5:50:15I mean, I mean, quite a decent and honest man.
5:50:16So true.
5:50:17The second point, what you're trying to do is you're all about to do something.
5:50:23You're going to say, well, I'm going to see something here.
5:50:31I mean, I'm all for it.
5:50:32If anything is wrong, I'll go.
5:50:33I mean, I'd be the person to be ruthless as it can be.
5:50:38Well, I'll tell you, when something like this, which is open, I understand, a legitimate matter is questioned.
5:50:45But this memorandum,
5:50:49In my view, looking as an old investigator, it's false in its face.
5:50:53I mean, it's obviously an exposed fact.
5:50:55We don't mind.
5:50:56That's what I mean.
5:50:57I don't mind.
5:50:58I mean, you can guess it.
5:50:59But that is my own reasoning.
5:51:00I'm like, it's false.
5:51:02It is.
5:51:03It is.
5:51:03People get it.
5:51:04Maybe I should investigate it.
5:51:06In this case, I don't know what else.
5:51:11As they have reported back today, what I have been absolutely convinced of for a week, can I say to my right, was not written by Lita Beard.
5:51:18It's not what you get from the second.
5:51:20Not written by her.
5:51:22Not written by her.
5:51:23That's what we know about that.
5:51:24They're working on ATT&CK, and they believe it might have been someone else inside of IT&T, or it may indeed have been inspired by Jack Anderson's secretary.
5:51:34His name is Opal Ginn.
5:51:36Have you ever thought of getting her on?
5:51:37I haven't thought of getting her.
5:51:39I remember I said to her, I understand.
5:51:40Which I like very much.
5:51:41They won't call her.
5:51:42Well, Eastland is playing a very cute game.
5:51:46On the one hand, he's trying to help find these, because he's going to be smart.
5:51:50And he wants to get the hearings over with and get findings confirmed.
5:51:53On the other hand, he is not going like this.
5:51:57He's not going on his way to cut down Teddy.
5:52:01Now, there are two things that are happening tomorrow.
5:52:03We discovered that Mr. Turner, who was the anti-crush chief under Johnson, proceeded in the choir, was presented with a prosecuted memorandum in the
5:52:15I.T.P.
5:52:16case.
5:52:16They're calling us.
5:52:45And the idea of getting some other law school professors and American Bar Association people who will say in testimony, and I think this would have to be covered, that this was the biggest settlement ever, among other things, which you can't find in print, is the agreement that
5:53:03that IT&T couldn't acquire any other company for 10 years without the permission of the Justice Department.
5:53:10That just kind of .
5:53:11And acquisitions is the way your stock goes.
5:53:14That's right.
5:53:16We've got some of that in the works.
5:53:18We've got some other people that come in and support us.
5:53:22And we're putting top pressure on two areas,
5:53:28are people on the hill with a sitar because every one you have to educate from scratch.
5:53:34The first one already there, I guess I'm gonna try to exploit the
5:53:43Lack of authenticity.
5:53:45On that story, though, what about Dina?
5:53:49Is she in or out or sideways?
5:53:52She's sideways at the moment.
5:53:54Her lawyers have been talking to her, and we've been getting third-hand reports.
5:53:59And she herself says she doesn't remember preparing this memo.
5:54:03That's her latest story.
5:54:05But she's holding something back, because I'm convinced she knows who did prepare it.
5:54:10I'm convinced that it was a memo that she wrote, and someone took it and rewrote it to add four damaging sentences, because they're non-exceptives of another four damaging sentences.
5:54:24Well, I'm just reviewing that with confidence.
5:54:29The memorandum talks strictly about...
5:54:32I thought we had an understanding that we would only be talking to certain people about this case.
5:54:40about this contribution to the city of San Diego.
5:54:44And now I understand that Ned Garrity and you, the administrator, are upset about the fact that the commitment is in services.
5:54:56And then she says, believe me, this is not what Hal said just after I talked to Ned.
5:55:00Wilson called me to report on his meeting with Hal.
5:55:02Hal at no time told Wilson that our definition would be in services only.
5:55:06In fact, quite to the contrary, the divers will cash you more, and certainly some.
5:55:10Then comes... That's good.
5:55:12Yeah, then comes essence.
5:55:13I am convinced, because of several conversations with Louie, Louie Nunn, Ray Mitchell, that our noble commitment has gone a long way toward a negotiation of mergers eventually coming out as Al wants it.
5:55:24Certainly the President has told Michigan to see if things have worked out fairly.
5:55:28It is still only McClaren's victory, though, so we are suffering.
5:55:32Right in the next sentence, which says, we only know how, we all know how in this big mud, but this is one time you cannot tell you and Ed one thing and Wilson and me another.
5:55:44The business of a commitment and the emergency negotiations that you and the Attorney General is interposed in between one logical thought, which is,
5:55:56We all agreed what this was for.
5:55:58Now the signals are being changed.
5:56:00God damn it, you can't tell me one thing and somebody else something else.
5:56:03And in the middle of that comes the only damaging sentence in the whole damn letter, which says, I am convinced that our noble commitment has gone a long way toward our negotiation.
5:56:14The merge is eventually coming out as hell wants it to.
5:56:16Certainly, the president is still official to see the things we worked at.
5:56:20Fairly, it is still only the point in time.
5:56:21It looks as if I was sitting here worrying about a $400,000 or a goddamn convention.
5:56:29I couldn't care less.
5:56:30But, in fact, I did care about this settlement.
5:56:34Only because I was watching John.
5:56:35I had a crush on John.
5:56:38And I figured, where are you getting some of the money from?
5:56:42Nothing to do with settlements here in this office.
5:56:44They know it.
5:56:45That is the trouble.
5:56:46That is the trouble they can't have.
5:56:49But this fellow was a phony.
5:56:50That sentence, those sentences, do you think those sentences... Well, of course you can't get a person who's on the booties or a family who's likely to put in an irrational
5:56:58I know, Mr. President.
5:56:59The whole thing... Not in the middle of it.
5:57:01The only damaging material in the memo is out of context with the rest of the memo, and that's why I'm saying... Out of context.
5:57:07Out of context.
5:57:08It's one complete thought with a damaging paragraph interposed in the middle of that thought, which just doesn't make sense.
5:57:15And even in an inebriated condition, I don't think that you... You might put the damaging paragraph at the end of the letter, actually, but you wouldn't interrupt your thought to include this in there.
5:57:27And that's what it is.
5:57:27It's an out-of-context paragraph that is most damaging.
5:57:30And it is.
5:57:31It's right in the middle of the book.
5:57:32You see, it's just a book.
5:57:34It's thrown in there.
5:57:36Because the first amount they probably did get was...
5:57:38So when are they going to have her or anything?
5:57:39Is there any chance to get her deposition or anything?
5:57:43Or what's going to happen?
5:57:45Well, what we have now, Mr. President, are depositions of sorts that her own lawyer has taken.
5:57:51extensive notes and she's initialed, but so that we're protected and if she should die, there's some record being kept.
5:57:59But the committee investigators are there and the two members of the committee that are to be appointed may be able to interview her by Wednesday or Thursday in her hospital room.
5:58:14And I am not sure that we want that to happen until we see what happens tomorrow in the executive session.
5:58:20If they have an executive session, then there's a possibility of impeaching Anderson's testimony or holding him in contempt on this charge that Cook made yesterday, which, by the way, has them very upset that we can't anticipate a return.
5:58:36Having given it to Ted Kennedy, he's going to say, well, I'm sorry.
5:58:40It doesn't make him look great.
5:58:42Well, he answered right away.
5:58:43He should have told him right away, no.
5:58:45But he answered, he said, I've just got to get them back.
5:58:47Why the rest of you do it?
5:58:48Well, the rest of them were asking for it, so they wouldn't give it.
5:58:52From a public relations standpoint, the problem that we're facing here is a very interesting one, in which Anderson, Kennedy, and Kennedy's staff, and the general news media covering this, are indeed comparing notes and sharing information all around.
5:59:11We've had several instances in which we've talked to a newspaper reporter only to find Kennedy's man talking later on and bringing up that.
5:59:21So we're really in difficult shape.
5:59:25The very reporters who are covering the hearings and reporting the hearings are working with Anderson and with Kennedy.
5:59:31And that's the real problem that we're facing.
5:59:34So you have to be investigators.
5:59:39That's why, for example, when the Marlowe-Cook letter went out on Saturday for release at 6 p.m. on Sunday, Anderson immediately had it, Kennedy immediately had it, even though no reporter actually sat down and wrote the story until Sunday afternoon, which has led me to tell everyone concerned, let's hand-deliver these things at the last minute whenever we want to put out some sort of a release.
6:00:04Because the intelligence that Anderson and Kennedy have is so good that we're just not going to be able to have something in a report that stands for three or four hours.
6:00:14Jimmy Flug and Mike Epstein are out of the Justice Department, and they're the two staff people who are honcho out of the Justice Department.
6:00:24And that's a real problem.
6:00:25Kennedy has decided he's going to rule.
6:00:27He's going to stay with it.
6:00:29That's, that's a double incentive for us to prove this memo fake and bloated.
6:00:33I don't think you, you really think you have a chance to prove it?
6:00:38Yes, sir.
6:00:41How?
6:00:41How?
6:00:41What happened?
6:00:42She said, you've got to, you've got to get Anderson's secretary.
6:00:45How the hell?
6:00:46She's not, she's not alive.
6:00:47But you don't need a bearded secretary who says, yes, I remember the memo, but there's something funny about it, because it never referred to President Nixon or the Attorney General.
6:00:55If it had, I would have remembered that, and I know it didn't.
6:01:00Well, she's helping Canada.
6:01:03And we may be able to get her.
6:01:04We do have a statement from her.
6:01:05We know that's what she said.
6:01:07Yes, sir.
6:01:08How people would say she's fixed.
6:01:12Maybe.
6:01:13We also have this one out today that's her testimony of every employee of IT&T that they've ever served.
6:01:19We also know that Jack Anderson turned over the original to the committee, which means they got that security statement.
6:01:25Oh, well, there are about six elements of it that are very curious, including the fact that in the way in which it reads, I must say.
6:01:33And then, of course, the blow would be if Dina Veer will tell really who did it.
6:01:39I still think she's covered.
6:01:42I think she's involved in making this story.
6:01:47And she's... Who do you think she's leading?
6:01:50I think Jack Anderson's secretary.

Nixon, Colson & Clawson on ITT scandal and Dita Beard memorandum

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