Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 686 › Conversation 686-006

Nixon, Franklin & Kaufman on Women's rights and Government appointments

Friday, March 17, 1972 · 9:56 AM–10:08 AM ET · Oval Office

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Franklin, Barbara H.; Kaufman, Judy; Gutwillig, Jacqueline G.; Allan, Virginia R.; Arnold, Margaret Long (Dr.); Bethel, Paul (Mrs.); Blair, Lorraine L.; Connor, Julie Casterman; Cunningham, Sarah Jane; Griffin, Robert A.; Hacke, Maxine R.; Hamel, Charles M. (Mrs.); Mealey, Margaret J.; Palmer, Hazel; Revercomb, Chapman (Mrs.); Wasserman, Daniel H. (Mrs.); Wischer, Irene; Koontz, Elizabeth D.; East, Catherine; Whittaker, Bertha; White House photographer; Nixon, Richard M. (President); Franklin, Barbara H.; Kaufman, Judy; Gutwillig, Jacqueline G.; Allan, Virginia R.; Arnold, Margaret Long (Dr.); Bethel, Paul (Mrs.); Blair, Lorraine L.; Connor, Julie Casterman; Cunningham, Sarah Jane; Griffin, Robert A.; Hacke, Maxine R.; Hamel, Charles M. (Mrs.); Mealey, Margaret J.; Palmer, Hazel; Revercomb, Chapman (Mrs.); Wasserman, Daniel H. (Mrs.); Wischer, Irene; Koontz, Elizabeth D.; East, Catherine; Whittaker, Bertha; White House photographerConversation686-006 on Tape 686 (tape position 00:16:39–00:30:15)StartFriday, March 17, 1972 at 9:56 AMEndFriday, March 17, 1972 at 10:08 AMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 686-006 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon met with members of the Citizens' Advisory Council on the Status of Women to discuss the evolving role of women in American society and the administration's commitment to gender equality. The discussion centered on increasing female representation in government appointments, including the judiciary, the Council of Economic Advisers, and the Atomic Energy Commission. Nixon highlighted his recent appointment of Marina von N. Whitman as evidence of his efforts to make breakthroughs for women in traditionally male-dominated professional fields.

  • Women's rights
  • Government appointments
  • Citizens' Advisory Council on the Status of Women
  • Gender equality
  • Marina von N. Whitman

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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· Timestamps are positions within the full tape recording.
16:50All right, we're on scene, ladies.
16:51It's fine.
16:51All right.
17:28Uh, I'm sorry, we have to wait.
17:29That's good.
17:29No.
17:57We're working on it.
17:57We're working on it.
17:58Yeah.
17:58Oh, yeah.
17:58Yeah.
17:58Yeah.
17:59Yeah.
17:59Yeah.
17:59Yeah.
17:59Yeah.
17:59Yeah.
17:59Yeah.
18:23We've got it down here.
18:24That's a good view.
18:24That's a good view.
18:25That's a good view.
18:25That's a good view.
18:26That's a good view.
19:26Oh!
19:50Well...
20:18Well, I got it wrong.
20:42yeah yeah
21:01Right, right, right.
21:26Watch this.
21:39Watch this.
21:45Thank you.
22:11It's sort of wonderful that you've come down here and we can use you as a prop, sort of community care.
22:19Well, let me tell you, if I really didn't care, I really kept it when I go to that White House.
22:22My wife, of course, and Trish and Julie, who are out in the country, feel so strongly that there's a very new edge in regards to the role of women.
22:32This is the important thing for us to bear in mind.
22:38Yeah.
22:40And that, when I say too active, this does not mean that some of the views that some of us have here, especially women, of course, serve a very important part in the endurance of all these interests.
22:53On the other hand, you can see when you take women, as we do today in our country, when they have education and all the rest, and when they're all, they were, it is no longer necessary to spend all that time in the house it used to be.
23:09You can't take these intelligent, creative people and just expect that they're going to do something.
23:16They want to do something that they must be recognized and recognized on the basis of, well, you call it equal rights, whatever you want to call it.
23:23I think perhaps sometimes we get too bogged down in equal rights and that's what's working.
23:30Of course, I support it.
23:32The important thing is for us to realize the status of women as far as I'm concerned, and as far as the streets are concerned.
23:42We constantly recognize that we want to upgrade, and we appreciate your advice on it.
23:49I think that one recent appointment is an indication of our evidence.
23:55And one of the great difficulties is that there's a tendency to find people who are very well-to-do.
24:00Well-to-do.
24:00Well-to-do.
24:00Well-to-do.
24:02We have a last few weeks to see the map.
24:03Well, that's what I want to know.
24:04We have a great United States.
24:13Well, they always think that they have a mandate to run.
24:18Now, you don't serve a point for that.
24:20What we're trying to do is to make breakthroughs in areas where women have never been before.
24:26And, you know, there's a little run that's been put in front of the Supreme Court.
24:31Now, the very fact that this is considered is a move forward.
24:36And coming up the line are numbers of people in my direction that I can interview
24:41At the lower courts, there will be women in the Supreme Court at some point.
24:46But I can give you another example, the one that I have used.
24:50I mean, the fact is, I appointed the first woman ever to serve on the Council of Economic Advisers.
24:56Now, she's a brilliant woman.
24:58Her father was John Bob Lyon, you know, a great physicist, and that's his rep. She's a brilliant woman.
25:05And we appointed her because she was a woman of all women.
25:10The fact that she was didn't hurt.
25:13Because among her colleagues, Herb Stein, a very famous economist, they said, this woman is in the big leagues.
25:23She can handle anything.
25:25And now there she is now.
25:27Nothing's been done before.
25:28There are women economists.
25:29So we've got one thing.
25:30And that's what I'm trying to look for.
25:32Take places like the Atomic Energy Commission.
25:36I'm speaking of what we can do.
25:40It just occurred to me that, uh, uh, here's the thing.
25:45We've never met a woman on it.
25:46But aren't there, isn't there someplace in this country a good woman in this business?
25:50There must be.
25:51I don't know if we'll find one, but we'll find it.
25:53See, that's what, I just want you to know that's where I am.
25:56But apart from that, uh, all these technical things, let me say, it's good to see you.
26:00We appreciate your, your advice.
26:04And, uh,
26:09Oh, the best one.
26:13I can't read it.
26:17I can't read it.
26:58I'm afraid what this is.
26:59This is, this is the place that
27:29Uh, uh, hang on.
27:32Remember when we were out there eating these old things?
27:42Thank you very much.
28:07That's right.
28:20Thank you very much.
28:20Thank you very much.
28:48One second now.
28:53All right.
28:54All right.
29:13Thank you very much.
29:13You're welcome.

NARA Description

On March 17, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Barbara H. Franklin, Judy Kaufman, Jacqueline G. Gutwillig, Virginia R. Allan, Dr. Margaret Long Arnold, Mrs. Paul Bethel, Lorraine L. Blair, Julie Casterman Connor, Sarah Jane Cunningham, Robert A. Griffin, Maxine R. Hacke, Mrs. Charles M. Hamel, Margaret J. Mealey, Hazel Palmer, Mrs. Chapman Revercomb, Mrs. Daniel H. Wasserman, Irene Wischer, Elizabeth D. Koontz, Catherine East, Bertha Whittaker, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:56 am to 10:08 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 686-006 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 686-6

Date: March 17, 1972
Time: 9:56 - 10:08 am
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Barbara H. Franklin, Judy Kaufman, Jacqueline G. Gutwillig, Virginia R.
Allan, Dr. Margaret Long Arnold, Mrs. Paul Bethel, Lorraine L. Blair, Julie Casterman Connor,
Sarah Jane Cunningham, Mrs. Robert A. Griffin, Maxine R. Hacke, Mrs. Charles M. Hamel,
Margaret J. Mealey, Hazel Palmer, Mrs. Chapman Revercomb, Mrs. Daniel H. Wasserman, Irene
Wischer, Elizabeth D. Koontz, Catherine East and Bertha Whittaker; the White House
photographer was present at the beginning of the meeting.

[General conversation and greetings]

     Group photograph

     Role of women in America
          -Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon
          -Tricia Nixon Cox
          -Julie Nixon Eisenhower
          -Homemakers
          -Education
          -Equal rights
                -Constitutional amendment
          -Appointments
                -Race
                -Jews
                -Supreme Court
                     -Lower courts
                -Council of Economic Advisors [CEA]
                     -Marina von N. Whitman
                           -John von Neuman
                     -Herbert Stein
                -Atomic Energy Commission [AEC]

     1971 Report of the Citizen’s Advisory Council on the Status of Women

     St. Patrick’s Day

     The People's Republic of China [PRC] trip
          -Gifts

                  -Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon
                  -New York
                  -San Francisco
                  -Hang Chow

      White House Rose Garden

[General conversation]
     -Education
           -Aid

Franklin, et. al. left at 10:08 am.

Also recorded on March 17, 1972

  • 686-001 7:51 AM · 23 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 7:51 am and 7:58 am.
  • 686-002 7:51 AM · 31 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 7:51 am and 7:58 am.
  • 686-004 7:58 AM · 10 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the Oval Office of the White House from 7:58 am to 8:04 am.
  • 686-005 9:54 AM · 41 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 9:54 am and 9:56 am.
  • 686-007 10:09 AM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:09 am to 10:13 am.
  • 095-002 10:13 AM · 1 hr 24 min — President Richard M. Nixon and members of the National Security Council, including Vice President Spiro T. Agnew, William P. Rogers, Melvin R. Laird, Gen. George A. Lincoln, John B. Connally, John N. Irwin, II, Richard M. Helms, Adm. Thomas H. Moorer, Ronald I. Spiers, David M. Kennedy, Gerard C. Smith, Philip J. Farley, Spurgeon M. Keeny, Jr., [Name withdrawn], Gen. Royal B. Allison, Paul H. Nitze, Henry A. Kissinger, Col. Richard T. Kennedy, Philip A. Odeen, Helmut ("Hal") Sonnenfeldt, and Gardiner L. Tucker, met in the Cabinet Room of the White House at an unknown time between 10:13 am and 11:54 am.
  • 686-008 11:55 AM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:55 am to 12:00 pm.
  • 686-009 12:00 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:00 pm and 12:05 pm.

All 55 conversations from March 17, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 686-006, March 17, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/686-006 (accessed October 3, 2026).