On March 21, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, White House operator, George P. Shultz, and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the Oval Office of the White House from 1:00 pm to 2:15 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 690-011 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
Don't go to any other mission.
Just don't go to any other mission.
We probably may have to wait for a lot of days, but tomorrow is a big story.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
That's fine.
They do.
I mean, I'll say it's fine.
I mean, it's fine.
I'd be grateful.
That would be fine.
You know, I believe...
Who'd they do it for first?
Oh, yes, they were.
They were.
You think we are?
Yes.
Then maybe we ought to.
What's the first one?
I don't know.
I think there's so much underdrug here with IT and G and so forth that we can clear away.
I'd like to better it a night or two weeks from now.
I'd like to better it the other way.
It's been on television too, you know, so what do you think?
I think...
I was thinking of this for one thing.
Why don't I... Why don't I do an actual broadcast on the drug, particularly if I come up with something to stick around with its recognition?
What do you think?
I think it's something worth to consider.
I think we should see how this plays today.
Why don't we do that?
Yeah.
He's gone.
Yeah.
I was going to say, one way to be certainly a drug is something we can get virtually right on.
And I just say all the right and tough things, but I don't know how much of it gets across.
You do one name for broadcasters now, and have some of them.
Yes.
What the hell is the good thing?
I would do a prime.
I'd go 7.30 to 7.30 and I'd cross the country.
I think it would be good.
I agree I could possibly do it.
I'd run into a damn tough, strong statement that I ask you all to join in this fight against drugs.
And then now what?
Oh, here's what we have.
We spent $600 million.
I signed the bill.
We've got this new law enforcement.
But it's not what we really see.
It's the very houses of cooperation of the American people.
And also, as I can see now, we have a lot of reports.
I just walked in on the drugs bill signing.
They're gonna walk out.
Yeah, yeah.
Byrne's saying that is a jackass damn thing.
And, uh, just like, uh, it's a crazy thing now.
But, uh, it's a different way.
Who the hell's bringing the grapes going out and sucking the goddamn grapes?
And I wish that, in all this business, that any and I could have seen this, too, in Pueblo, where he says that now the government is worried about the dollar and all that sort of thing.
How am I worried about the dollar?
I'm worried about the dollar, too.
That's right.
but we're gonna, John's got a plan on that.
What's it go to?
What is it?
What is it?
Yeah, what's the CBI, gentlemen?
What the hell?
I just can't go through with it.
And everybody's going for it.
Most people, majority.
Try it.
Try it.
It's good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No.
Well, you made his dedication good.
You made his dedication good.
Yeah, right.
I want you to have Connolly banning, banning Archer of the interest rates today.
Can you do it?
Make a public statement.
Archer, I mean Connolly.
Orson.
You know, all right.
Well, the industry is totally opposed to our policy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, Art was in charge of the data committee to keep industry
Yeah.
Good.
Well, I think you did it right, right?
Yeah.
That's right.
He knows our position.
He has something wrong with my neck, too.
They'd like to blow this thing.
But if he blows it, it isn't all that bad for us either.
And we're going to have to take it on and let our Democratic candidates support George Meany.
I'd like you to do that.
Oh, I can say now.
No, you're absolutely right.
I just, uh, I, but I, I want to say, I don't think it's going to be that.
I don't think they have ever come out as advocates of freedom.
Hell, they don't want to act for that.
There are more controls.
But we'll see.
All right.
Thank you.
Do you have any other questions about the conference?
Or do you plan to have conferences staged about interest rates on a glove?
You say that is completely opposed to the policy of the president, the secretary of the creation of this administration.
That does not represent, he's speaking only for himself.
What do you say to him?
Come on, you say it.
I have a question.
You can do it.
It would be important for us to have a conversation.
It's totally up to you.
Before you do that, we'll call Tom.
Tom, that's all right.
Tom, don't reply to the questions.
That's what I thought you could say.
That's what I figured.
Fair enough.
All right, do you want me to do this today or wait until tomorrow?
Well, I'd like you to do it, frankly, today for the reason that the
Do you have anything to say tomorrow?
I don't have anything to say tomorrow.
I don't have anything to say tomorrow.
I don't have anything to say tomorrow.
I don't have anything to say tomorrow.
I don't have anything to say tomorrow.
Sorry about the full language.
That's what we had to do with the .
I think the Chief Justice is by far the best candidate if you get him to do it.
That's one of my suggestions.
I think, and telling the President also is, but it's the Virgin All-Captain, Officer Chicago, and members of the White House staff.
I was just going to be a little bit.
I was planning to be on the west coast.
I was flying on the west coast to be there in the present situation.
I was planning on... Well, you won't be on the west coast.
I was planning.
But I was planning to be there.
He was.
Oh, he was.
Everyone was saying that.
For example, I was planning to be on the west coast.
I was planning to be on the west coast.
I was going to fly and be there in the east coast.
I just can't accomplish it.
I can't do it and not do the others.
I'm not doing any of the others.
I can't do this because I'm going to be out of time.
That's right.
Okay, on the matter we were talking about before, I think this Thursday it's better to do it in the office.
Yes, sir.
And then do the, as you said, the two weeks after that on TV.
I don't, I, in evaluating this Thursday, I think some consideration should be bound with the ITT questions.
Sure.
And I think you can get those, you can handle those better here than the CDI questions.
Well, I'm not so concerned about that.
But the ITT questions, I think you can handle them here, and that's a better place to handle them than on nationwide television with the president.
Yeah.
I'm responsible for that type of question.
What do you think, Bob?
Well, my concern is a different one.
My concern is I think we can go on nationwide television every three weeks and should.
But I just don't think you could go on every week.
I just don't feel that you could go on last week and then come on again with the press conferences.
Wouldn't you think there's something to that?
Something, yeah.
I don't think it's a different, in any different way, so I don't think there's any .
I think your argument of wanting to kind of get the press in some degree of a way
Also, you can't say we haven't had a press conference for seven months or something, you know.
They could have said, well, if you can get to any of the other questions, you can bounce back and just say, I covered that press conference on Saturday.
I think it's well and clearly.
You have to use the loud air mic in order to make it radio.
You don't have to, but you have a lousy radio thing if you don't.
I see.
They aren't going to use the big ones, though, is that it?
No, the model they're like, it's a peanut size.
They have a new, very small one.
They use two, one on each side of each other.
Either way, you'd have to walk in here and put them on in here, or shall I?
No, you could have them put on, and then we'd bring the press in.
In other words, I'd just be here.
You'd be standing there, and we'd have them outside the door, and once that's in place, then they could come in.
I would do it that way instead of walking in.
We'll go that way.
I don't like to come in and have to put a mic on someone.
They probably wouldn't know it.
I don't think we need to say anything.
So I'm actually just saying that with that mic.
No, it's true.
I'm just saying it does so that we can get out of it.
Make it available for radio.
Make it available.
Interesting note from old Julius Klein.
My God, he's a little high-fiving.
He says, for many years, Mayor Daley, in spite of all political differences, has been a close friend of mine.
As a matter of fact, the day before yesterday, we visited discussing our city's problems.
Today, at a luncheon party for St. Patrick's Day, Mayor Daley said, quote, if you have a chance in communicating with the president, tell him his speech about busing last night was excellent.
I like the president.
He's a great man.
This isn't the first time the mayor has uttered these remarks to me.
I presume Daley would be chiefly concerned about collecting his own county and state tickets, but I promise you I'd relay this message to you.
I appreciate you giving it to the president.
It is, though, I mean, Daley's, he knows, you know, flying pedals himself as a guy.
I was thinking when I'm talking to Ron about doing something.
I'm doing 15 minutes on drugs on national TV.
Have you signed this bill?
We have this, we're spending $600 million.
We're stopping supply of drugs and so forth and so on.
And we've got to call on God.
We will rigorously enforce the law.
We will provide treatment.
We will stop the sources of crime.
We need your help.
We need your support.
And the Marijuana Commission will report over that time.
And I'll say what I rejected.
And I can say that I'm going to the utilization of marijuana.
I'm going to the so-called heroin treatment before this event ends.
Thank you.
What do you think of the idea?
I think it's a good idea.
I think just do something good, right?
I mean, sort of a fireside chat at 7.30 in a sense.
You could do it at 7.30 in Miss California, but not until then.
But nevertheless, 7.30 doesn't box anybody off.
It's a hell of a lot of people.
Now on this one, I think that you'd better get somebody like you can't write the goddamn thing, but if you did, somebody ought to give you an L-line.
And so the words are...
I saw, for example, a pastor on the pamphlet that he got out on drugs.
and uh, presentation of the code name that it shows, which of course I did this, something that American staff were done, but where, uh, they put it as the quote from the president on the front of the pamphlet with a picture, a good strong picture, and the rest of it says it.
Drugs is our number one problem.
It must be dealt with in a variety of ways.
When I saw a variety of ways, I got into a few.
And I thought, maybe say, we need, I use the word all-out war or all fronts or the speckle or this, that, but in a variety of ways, it just pissed off into the stream.
It's typical of what we get out of that shop over there.
Yeah, even if you want to make that overall statement, you've got to say we've got to attack it.
Attack it in every direction.
We've got to attack it on all fronts.
On all fronts, yeah.
We've got to attack the problem of the attic, the problem of the pusher, the problem of the exposed.
Yeah, well, you can sure water it down in a variety of ways.
Well, now, what in the hell does that show at Tulsa?
Except that there are several ways.
Well, what that really does is it can't be handled.
That's right.
That's a brush on Scott's life, the money and commission.
But in a variety of ways, it really says we don't know how to handle it.
Which may be the truth.
Oh, but it sure is the thing that says it's the truth.
Well, here's the thing to say.
There's ways to handle it.
We just kick the hell out of it.
We enforce the law.
The way you talk about it, the thing you talk about, I'm sure because it's all this jammy crap, it's not the stuff to talk about.
Well.
I mean, that's what they hit me on.
I know.
Well, you've got to look up.
Remember what I said?
I know.
You've got to say, well, look, they hit that on me when I got out there and I didn't do it.
Right.
Well, what gets, who cares about the Chinese stuff and treating the addicts?
The mothers don't because their kids aren't addicts.
No.
And they're, they should be.
You just don't worry about that.
What you're worried about is this son of a bitch who's going to come up and try and slip a pack of marijuana to your kid.
Or heroin.
Or heroin.
Because I want to finish.
Or LSD.
Or LSD.
Or slip something in his Coca-Cola.
Yeah.
Right.
That's what you're worried about.
You're not worried about addicts.
Nobody knows an addict.
But everybody knows a kid who's been smoking marijuana.
Well, let's face it.
people are not concerned about anybody but themselves exactly they're not concerned about the other kids who's uh well the kids aren't addicts anyway there aren't enough addicts addicted kids to matter and it's this typical thing it's like the you know like take take mental disorders uh everybody should uh
You know, it's like old Jim Rhodes.
He said that, of course, it's his typical boulder way.
I mean, the 1960s was when I was traveling around here.
I mean, it was before the election.
The other day, he said, you know what it is?
He said, all these people, you know, all they want to do is metal us.
He said, they come down here, these people, three or four hundred of them, and they were fixing around, and they were talking to the money sliders, and all the rest of it.
He said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said,
He's right.
There's a hell of a lot more neighbors that he can buy on.
He did a lot better.
He has an enormous number of buyers that he can buy jobs from.
That's what he said at first.
Get them off the streets of there and kill the people.
Now, we all know that mental institutions are a horrible thing.
I can see...
Why do we have a bunch of psychiatrists sitting around making people who are not mental cases mental cases?
You know, psychiatry is a goddamn racket, in my opinion.
There are some that are important and necessary.
Most people would do a whole lot better with a preacher than a psychiatrist.
There's no question on the drug side that stopping the supply is important because people know if there isn't any, then nobody will buy it.
They like their stuff about the church, and that's good.
And the other thing is getting the goddamn pushers where they want them.
And they like them, right?
They hang them.
And then education.
Educating the kids.
They talk about that.
But that's a tough one to peddle.
You can educate the hell out of them, but it just, educators couldn't get anywhere.
That's exactly it.
But mostly the pushers.
It's get the guy that's peddling him rather than the kids that's got a little of it.
Because kids will try anything that comes their way.
Yeah.
Drugs are usually doing their best.
But let's think about just doing a speech on the day of the event.
Hypo the issue again.
He was like, why are you legalizing marijuana?
We were talking about it last night.
John was saying, I wonder what would happen if we did a drug thing every week.
And I said, I thought that's what you were supposed to have been doing a year and a half or two years ago.
That was our plan.
Just do the drug thing every week.
And hit something hard every week on something that we're doing on drugs.
That doesn't mean the president going out and selling his marijuana products.
That's what I do.
Well, I'm not so sure.
I had a very good line that I, you know, I, of course, can't use the talking parts of the other.
They had this gobbledygook about drug addiction, and the rest came here, and, of course, they're very conscious of Jesus, and they get the rest of the time.
And he does it great.
You know what I said?
I said, he found, he came into this, there were nine government agencies where he'd been in this.
After he'd been in the job for eight months, I asked him how many did he find.
There really aren't.
He said 13.
He said, that was for sure.
People were there.
I said, now this isn't necessarily bad, but also we have to reopen.
There's a lot of petty bureaucrats competing with each other, empire building, and more interested in building their bureaucracies than they are in dealing with the problem.
I said, I told him to stop this.
I told him to knock heads together.
And I said, I told him to knock heads together, and either they cooperate or the heads will roll.
That's the words I used.
But it is ridiculous these damn little things that keeps farting around and fighting with each other and appealing to each other.
We got, incidentally, that thing did get pretty good coverage.
Yeah, I heard.
Two network qualities.
CBS mentioned it, but I was on.
The other two had good film.
I checked the New York, all the New York local stations gave it five minutes or better.
Good.
Detailed coverage of the whole visit, you know, all the way through.
But we knew we'd get good local coverage.
That was great.
The national was good.
made the point, had you and your little talk at the airport, which was good.
It was good being in that setting.
It's good that part of it is what, it's always worth taking the long trip and everything else, I think, just to get into a different place than sitting in your Oval Office all the time.
Now the other thing, it was,
Speech to a live audience at 7.30?
No.
The best way to handle a drug thing is fireside, don't you think?
Yes.
So anyone who can do a speech to a live audience, it's not because of speech, it's to be oriented to a live audience.
He raised the thing in that Rogers memo about the Stockholm conference, you know, having him drop by there.
Can't do that.
Well, yeah, I think he probably can drop by, but the plan on that now is to have Russ Crane head the delegation rather than a cabinet officer because you've got several cabinet officers
for a day in this last two weeks so roger could go as a star performer outside the delegation in other words and i don't think you want to build him this is a big delegation of you know 15 people that all right i'm sorry
But Bill could come in, you know, just star in it for maybe one session, make a speech or something like that without being under the delegation.
I know you don't want to get into it, but if it beats back on the ambassador, go around again.
That's fine.
I have to get into it.
What is it now?
He wanted to run over, but I don't have all the time.
I'm not going to run over, but I don't give a shit whose ambassador he is right now.
Okay, well, I just want to make sure I get bears into this.
We can, what are we going to get an ambassador if we don't have one?
Germany?
Pakistan.
And Barnum had recommended, the ambassador that's leaving, had recommended Newman, and Henry occurs in that.
We've got to be having Afghanistan now.
who is not career, is Nixon.
Fine.
And as I guessed, done a good job.
Fine.
Then we were going to send Brimmer to Finland to get him out of the Fed, but Holland is staying in Stockholm, so you can't send another bloke to Scandinavia.
So he's suggesting offering the post to Wiley Buchanan.
Now, I had a session with Rogers and, I mean, I'm sorry, Mitchell and Stans.
today on, you know, the people, he's got some people we still need to pay off.
He's got ambulance coming in in a hurry.
And both of them just plead that we not give Wiley Buchanan an ambassador post because he hasn't done a damn thing for you.
And it's known that he hasn't.
They said if we are going to give him one, Stanton would like to hit him first to get at least 150 out of him and then let him take it.
And if we don't get it, he ought not to get the post.
Apparently he does.
All right, don't give him one.
I don't really care about him.
I'm just trying to get him the hell out so he doesn't bother us.
But then you can't just sell him.
Who's got a Kissinger Rogers thing on that?
We were going to send Swain out of the salon to get him out of Cambodia, which we have to do.
And Henry had suggested moving Whitehouse to Cambodia.
Well, Whitehouse was just moved to Vietnam to replace Bergen.
So what else do we have?
Nobody.
But Henry is saying that you were aware of this and that this is your order.
Now, I think he thinks they're trying to keep Whitehouse somewhere.
You know, this is all a maneuver.
All I want to find out is whether you care.
We'll work it out if you don't care.
As long as you don't care.
He's a good man in Cambodia.
The most important thing right now is a good man in Cambodia.
Okay.
Another thing about Cambodia I mentioned to Henry was that I had Ribero there, some military guy there.
Okay.
Now, Buss is apparently back out of Spain because of the business conflict and he wants to stay in Washington.
Yeah.
So, you told me so, so he is out.
They're saying we can send Ribero there, which would be good from Spain's viewpoint.
But that's a hell of a post to use for somebody who has a bit of good.
And we've got some people that we need to do some good with.
Well, I'm going to be one of them.
I don't care.
Then we've got the question of the bunch job at the United Nations.
Rogers has recommended Pedersen and Buffum, the guy in Lebanon.
Kissinger is strongly against Pettersson and sees nothing to be gained from Buffa.
I think Sponyhand might be interested in it, and Kissinger supports Sponyhand.
Why not?
Offer to Sponyhand.
Brad Morse wants the job and is planning to leave Congress.
Why not him?
So there's a problem with putting Brad Morse in Kitter's camp.
We could try pointing at first and let him turn down, which would give him a flattering thing.
Right.
If indeed it is flattering to him.
See, we offered him a bastard at the U.N. Of course, this is a stamp post.
He might like this better.
Give it to Morse.
He's my choice.
But, good God, Mike, he might have killed a son of a bitch better than me.
We don't.
We don't.
I would think maybe Henry would be glad to get in there to get him out of state.
But I don't think that Roger's strong.
But why reward him?
Well, yeah, I guess it's a reward.
Just so you know, your friend Frank Leonard is back in the newspaper business again.
He's doing the Nixon re-elector now.
This is volume one, huh?
And it's, it's, it's, you do a great job, you know, doing, we're awesome on Wisconsin.
You know, all this, a lot of pictures of the guys, the people that have been out campaigning.
And, uh...
All right, we'll hear some doers.
The re-election committee is doing this, the Reagan committee.
I think it's great.
I think it's a good enthusiasm.
But Leonard is a genius for this.
Pat, partner, activist, too.
The back page is fatness.
Great pictures, Harry.
Marvelous.
Well, that's great.
Yeah, that doesn't get that cranky, does it?
Well, thank you, sir.
We got a lot of good reviews.
We do.
What we're running into here, of course, with Meany is Mel Boggesson.
And I want to thank you, and thank George, and thank you, and thank you, and thank you, and thank you, and thank you, and thank you, and thank you, and thank you, and thank you, and thank you, and thank you, and thank you, and thank you, and thank you, and thank you, and thank you, and thank you, and thank you, and thank you, and thank you, and thank you, and thank you, and thank you, and thank you, and thank you, and thank you,
And I mentioned that, you know, I was going to say something.
Connolly's view, well, don't punch too hard, he said, because we really don't have that much to gain.
But he said kind of, you know, do it with a soft glove, kind of tamper him around the face a little bit, he said.
But he said refer primarily to intermediate and long term.
And he said maybe approach like, well, you're sure that if I'm asked, I'm sure that Dr. Burns went talking about intermediate to long-term loan interest rates because the president's position on that is very clear.
He's not anxious to see them rise.
He wants to see them come down.
And that's what the wage price board is all about.
And then bring about a decrease in interest rates.
And then point to the fact that mortgage rates are coming down.
We hope to see them drop even further, as indicated by the January and February figures.
So I'll take it kind of that way if you approve.
Oh, sure.
All right.
All right.
Yeah.
I want to talk to you about that.
Cal then too, a small one, Euro-G. And what they have in mind isn't exactly what Henry told us they had in mind.
Which is, I kind of wondered about.
But they have in mind, it's not an hour, they have in mind a half hour.
And they don't have in mind prime time, they have in mind 10.30 on Sunday night, Easter Sunday.
And they would go a week later at 10.30 on Sunday night.
Also, they don't have in mind any review of China at all.
They have in mind Henry's conceptual outlook on the three-cornered foreign policy business, and the Middle East, and a few things like that.
So, Ron said he has the distinct impression, not impression, he's obvious,
What Cal wants is a philosophical discussion on how Henry Kissinger is putting together the U.S. foreign policy.
And Ron said, I think even no matter how Henry tries, he's going to have a problem getting it around to how Richard Nixon did.
But he said there was no way to guide them into the direction of asking the kind of questions we had in mind.
They're asking.
Now on that basis, I see nothing that we can do.
I just feel like it would be getting rid of the philosopher.
But that doesn't help us a bit.
He's known to be brave.
But what I would do now, he's panting to do things.
Get some dates for him.
Father's not getting him to Chicago.
Don't you agree?
Yeah.
But I wouldn't do this at all.
Just say they haven't offered good enough time.
They haven't offered.
And bring him not to talk to him anymore.
Tell him, just get your mom selling the Navy after Russia and we'll get a better offer.
Put it that way.
See what I mean?
But this is a bad offer.
It's a bad time.
It's not enough time.
They don't want to go into the China trip.
They said they'd rule out going into the China trip.
Why do you say rule it out?
Of course, you'll talk in a cut column and find out different things.
I know what they're up to.
No, let's say they, not that they'd rule it out, but that's obvious that's not what they, they're not, they don't intend to get into that at all.
But they'll get into China as it fits into the forward.
He doesn't want to go back.
That was the point.
I don't want to look back.
I want to look ahead to how this all fits together in a great scheme of things.
Now that, I can see it right now.
He makes his own speech.
It's great.
Yeah, but it doesn't look like he's running for anything.
Well, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
Well, good.
It's a good building you're talking about.
Well, otherwise, Henry is the worst catcher.
That's right, everybody.
Just get it to let us program a little bit.
That's great.
With this meeting thing, do you want to consider meeting with Fitzsimmons at some point for a breakfast or a thing?
We'd have to.
Obviously, you can't do it now until...
Hang on.
I haven't tracked on anything with Fitzhimmons.
He's our friend.
Haven't.
But we'd better wait and see how this whole board thing works out.
Just have him in the office.
I'd just like him to drop in and talk with me.
Yeah.
Fair enough.
Be sure to post all his other problems.
Try to keep Fitz in line.
This is Chuck.
The board of us.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Sure.
I'd like to have Fitz come and see me.
Good.
We've done well by the way.
Yeah, but what I mean is you should have a talk.
Yeah.
You've been into the White House.
You see, I am not, I am not, I have great respect for .
But I have total lack of confidence in the fact that .
And he knows it, and never makes a .
The other thing from all our people is a plea that we reconsider the National Alliance of Businessmen for a reception.
The reason being that they've taken on this jobs for veterans thing on top of everything else.
They are delivering on it.
They're having a hell of a time keeping it going on it.
The guy that's now the chairman took it at our urging, Gordon Metcalf,
Shake their goddamn hands again.
Yeah, or maybe even not shake their hands, but just let them have a reception with some booze and you go in and talk to them for a few minutes.
It may be easier to shake hands.
Wow.
But it's... Jesus Christ almighty.
It is unbelievable.
I know.
Unbelievable.
But this is, you know, they keep saying they've produced three-fourths of a million jobs over the last...
three years by placing blocks and minorities.
And then now we're doing, go ahead, your request is that, go ahead, you have to shake their hands and that you've got to show personal interest once a year.
They wanted a dinner, I suppose.
They wanted a dinner, sure.
And they want three things, as usual.
They always, they want you to do their board meeting and share the board meeting thing.
But the one most effective thing is that reception of the regional chairman.
Because there's new people each year.
Do it at some time.
You know what I mean?
You know what I mean?
When I'm not heavily, I don't mind when I can get them the hell out in a reasonable time.
You remember Bob, I told you the last time, do it never again.
Just a little.
Okay.
I'm in for a sleep.
I guess that's what we do.
Well, we do a lot.
But there is what we do.
We understand.
A lot of things we do.
For the wrong reason, really.
But it's... That's right.
And that caps it.
Very good answer.
I don't know why those guys take those jobs.
Why does a guy on Metcalf who's running the biggest goddamn retail enterprise in the world take time to do that?
They all do it.
They do it because of their public interest.
They want to show that they're interested in the country and not just making money.
I don't frankly have to do it, but...
Well, they over, you know, that's the reason why that guilt complex they push businessmen into, which is so wrong.
They overlook the fact that making money is the best thing they can do for the country.
And doing well, making jobs, sure.
Because they don't believe in their own system, right?
They feel like they've got to do the charity stuff.
I'll tell you, there's, I can't tell you how strong it is in my own conviction when I leave this office.
I'm not the one.
Simply what a solid, unitary thing.
I mean, that poor Eisenhower they dragged into the Eisenhower College.
That's why I'm trying to keep loose from that goddamn foundation.
I'm not going to be involved in having to raise money for the Whittier College.
Well, that's why you should keep a little loose from Whittier, too, though.
Should I get the foundation too close to drive anyone traveling?
I agree.
But my point is, I'm not going to do the Boy Scouts of America.
I'm not going to do the Boy Scouts of America.
I'm not going to do the National Alliance for Businessmen.
Or any damn thing there is.
Well, boy, I can see it.
The heat, the heat on you is just going to be unbelievable.
Of course.
I'm not going to harm a president.
You know, just the best skills you can get at the top of their letterhead, you know.
Oh, hell, I'm not going to go out on the 11th and use my name here.
I don't, I'm not going to let my name be used for anything.
You agree?
Well, that's what we said when we came in.
We backed off of it.
And I think you had to back off of it as president, right?
I'm not.
There's just too damn many things that you're not.
You just say, well, as a former president, I do not allow the use of my name for any activities that are involved with fundraising.
Period.
Isn't that what it is?
Don't you?
Well, any honorary activities.
I just want to tell you.
Do you, for example, people didn't think we could get away with the idea of not accepting honorary degrees, you know?
Yeah, some people are on here.
Now, look what a hell of a goddamn mess I'd be in if I had an honorary degree.
Look what a mess I'd be in.
You know, they said, well, you have to accept that at least some of the bitches come to your office and give it to you.
But most usually, you have to go out and make a speech.
That's what they give the degree for.
I wouldn't do an honorary degree or in a goddamn school in this country, I would do an honorary degree for.
None.
None of my speech.
We ought to get something out of Egg that we're letting him off the hook on the street.
I don't know why, but I don't want him to go easy on him.
I can't lie.
You understand?
But you agreed to talk to him, so I'll tell him.
Don't you agree?
I'll make it sound harder.
He did say that it was much against the president's will.
He thinks it's the wrong thing, but he didn't want to pressure him on something that you felt was a strong thing about him.
You know what I mean?
Just a little of that so he feels a bit of a guilty.
He'll still get home.
Because, you know, really,
The general doesn't order.
The general's wishes are commanded, sir.
You know, we always heard that.
The admiral doesn't order.
Your commanding officer's wishes are commanded.
And it's only when you're dealing with a recalcitrant, belligerent son of a bitch, you say, oh, that's an order, sir.
You know what I mean, sir?
I actually can understand that.
Every mother means she's got to try to tune itself to find out what you want and then do it.
If I express a little bit of a wish, that's a command.
I don't even have to express it in the other face.
I'm not going to be in that position, you know, anyway.
He just hates that thing so...
I know.
So, he owes us one, doesn't he?
Yeah.
I think we're right in not doing this thing.
I'm totally in the right position.
I think you're right.
Well, you can argue that both ways, but I can also see that the use of television until it runs out of their damn ears is necessary.
I don't think I, I think we're in a fortunate position that I have not overused it.
You know, I mean, I really have.
Don't you agree?
Yep.
I'm not in Johnson's position.
That's a given.
It's hard to figure that we should have that much of a shift in tree leaves when we have two good primaries.
Well, Bennett's quick argument is that the approval thing
You've got to look at it as a barometer on a current basis that when something kicks it up, it goes up, but it doesn't stay up.
The only way it keeps going up is a sequence action.
And any sequence going the other way, it'll go down.
There is no residual effect to it, I should speak of.
at least in the .
No, he thinks it did, but not in the approval barometer.
He said the approval barometer isn't where you look at that.
That's a current rating.
His contract's the residual effect kind of thing.
And his argument is that, and Harris, of course, doesn't think the approval barometer is a good measure anyway, and has argued that it's not.
Now, Harris, of course, on that scale that he uses,
Apparently, you've got to move up on the strong, which is a very good thing, which makes you, you might believe in something, but, you know.
On the other hand, the thing about Menem's figures that are extremely interesting as compared with Gallup's is that now they must be correct.
When Gallup, when our figures both in January and in February and now, and when Harris' figures show this gap must be, Gallup is the guy that's out of step here.
Don't you think so?
with this Gap 342.
The muskie gap is there on the Hempsteads, or would you not agree with me?
Our coal could be wrong once, but it doesn't have to be wrong three times.
It doesn't have to be wrong steadily.
That's right.
And, you know, those dents and everything.
Those enormous figures.
Well, and the muskie drop has to be reflected in trial heat as well as in standing in its own plumbing.
Do you think it would be better to go out and do the pressure thing tomorrow?
No.
Never give them a chance for a television shot.
I think that's the one wrong thing to do.
Where they can pick out the one bad and negative question, which they'll always do.
They'll always pick out the piss on the question.
That can get the worst of any world.
That's the one thing I really think is the wrong way to do a press conference.
Make them do it live.
Do it in here with radio for the whole thing.
Radio, I like it.
Don't you like radio?
Or do it here with no coverage.
Right.
Or go on live television.
They can carry them.
That's right.
And if you go online, you gotta go on 7.30.
Go on 7.30 at least, yeah.
7.30 is the best time for me, right?
Yeah, it's hard to crank up late at night.
It really is, you know.
They want to keep going all day, you know.
You're not used to it.
Also, it's curious.
You know, the acting's healing now, doesn't it?
It could have some effect.
It hasn't had a great effect yet.
I don't think so.
That's certainly got an indication of it.
It's, uh, but that could have extra report points in the poll.
Uh, what, what it shows you is that it's had an effect, it would appear, a pretty, a fairly substantial adverse effect on 10% of the people.
Because only 30% are aware, and only a third of them have any major reaction.
Those 30%, those 10% might have been partisans.
Well, pretty well, I guess.
That's what you've got to then look at.
And I'm looking.
They're doing a process check on that.
Are those the same 10% that are against John Buck, against John O'Neill, against John E?
They are.
They're not aware of it.
All that says is they're in a state of mourning.
And if you only had 10%, that does us no harm at all.
Maybe we ought to go worry about it.
And be careful.
Well, they don't get any support.
They don't help us study if they're trying to get those...
You can argue they're good for backing him up, but who needs them?
You can't get these damn ones to come up with all the wrong things.
There's Mike Schaefer and Lawrence Rockefeller.
Each one of them comes up with a statistics commission.
Every one of them comes up with the wrong answer.
And especially with Tex McCurry, that's right.
Yeah, good.
You find something.
10 projects he wants to go over and get one over.
Is he going to work?
Yeah.
He is working.
See, he's been working.
He's been coming down.
He doesn't want to be paid in real.
He's got his money.
Yes, he's got some things going.
And we've got to be careful because part of what he's been pressuring for his clients.
But he wrote me a memo on the 10 things.
And he says, I put a dollar sign in the margin on each of the ones in which I have a
A business interest so that you don't deal with any of those.
Get 10 copies of Russell Kerr's Children and the Conservatives.
You're writing the book?
Yeah.
I don't think I did.
I read it pretty fast.
Well, I read it years ago and I picked it up again and just jumped through it.
I don't agree with the program terms in general, but of course his great-brother was a conservative mind, which is a lot better for us, but this is the most brilliant, the greatest of 1954, and devastating critique of the liberal approach.
And incidentally, the liberal approach, Bob, is still one that works itself, and the meetings are on here.
I just don't agree with the goddamn liberal approach, you know what I mean?
Yeah.
And it is a marvelous critique.
You've got to, I want you to... Huh?
You said get 10 copies, right?
You want to send them?
I want to read one.
Christ read one.
It's got some goddamn good rhetoric in it, too.
But once he had it, it solid-minded a little.
I mean, it's a...
They're out of stuff, but they're also very wrong.
At least, that's the only good thing about this drug thing, I think, is that I've learned about it.
horrible idea that we ought to have heroin maintenance.
In other words, that the way to handle drugs is to maintain these people, keep them on drugs so they won't come in crying.
Why not come up with that?
Why not come up with that?
If you're going to do that, why not do a euthanasia?
Why not just give them a Mercy Jones so they don't suffer from the drug?
Well, you're giving them something, so you're giving them heroin, so nothing destroys themselves.
You know, it's wrong, it's wrong, you know, but you do it.
I can give other examples, but I can't think of a good one at the moment.
Boy, and a lot of these jackasses, and Jackie, he's not this way, he's rather more hard-line than somebody.
There are more soft-headed people on crime than anyone else.
Death is the main problem for American civilization.
They don't want people to be forced to take any of their knowledge.
Because it incriminates them.
You see what I mean?
They're out in Vietnam, inviting urinalysis, and I want it in the name of God.
You see what I mean?
In the name of civil liberties and that sort of thing.
And then around the hill, they don't allow any discordance.
But people who
Connery.
Biceps.
That's not early.
Schultz.
Schultz.
Richardson.
Garner.
No.
Wouldn't agree with that.
Price.
Won't agree with it, but at least...
I won't be overboard.
We may have to give down a little too.
We have to.
I just thought for some people that you don't have to give a can of grease.
Right?
We could one day put down Russell Kirk, you know.
I was thinking of my schedules.
What is more stimulating to me is to have some politician come in.
spend 45 minutes to talk.
I don't care who it is, sometimes it might be a congressman or a senator, you know, you learn something then.
Rather than he's got it, if I don't learn anything then, I have to put on a show.
You realize about all this, they didn't tell me anything.
They're waiting for me, they sit there, here I am, going on a show and I give them a goddamn compliment and walk around and shake their hands and then a pep talk.
It's a total, I mean, it's, well, sometimes I like to have an idea fed to me, something that's really valuable.
from intelligent people, not good people.
Speaking to that, I raise one representative point, and it's not, you don't need to do a thing about it, but just for future guidance.
You know, we had, we put Rose as the minister, because of the pressures there and so forth, she's gonna be the, at least the candidate for head of the World Rapids Alliance.
Uh, he was perfectly all right.
He's a good friend and all the rest, but he is not really up to the...
I mean, several of them haven't met, but I really think that all those church services, just like on the physical things, that unless the pressures are enormous, I guess absolutely enormous, that we should go for pretty high quality, you know what I mean?
That's, uh, just to probably put it in the back of your head.
What we did at the beginning, yes, I know,
But then everybody wants you to come preach.
And you've got to preach.
You see, there are a lot of good preachers there.
We sure are.
But he was good until he was started.
He was adequate, but he's not on top of life.
But he isn't up to what he ought to have in the lives of some.
He's just my kid.
I would agree.
I would know it.
It's half the proudest day of his life, and all that, of course, though.
We do all too well when we run these arrival ceremonies.
We've got some beautiful men out there.
It's too bad they have to be in Washington, because you don't have them.
I don't know.
You see if you go down the turnstile on that one side of your spot, it just happens to be near New York.
It's just impressive.
The thing is, it would be very removed, but you know, kids in Washington don't care much about this sort of thing.
There's a lethargic in her reaction.
Oh, yeah.
Any former guest that ought to be jumping up and down the shed and like, who's a great guy, which you can't do.
But this time, it's so much better to do it this way than to drive through empty streets.
Yeah.
We really got this done, huh?
Well, just think, it was an awful thing, going out to Andrews and riding an open car all the way into Washington with a few blacks throwing stuff at you and nobody paying any attention to these people.
I used to come riding in with those guys.
Oh, I used to.
My dear, we did go to Andrews in LaGuardia.
I mean, national.
National, that's right.
We cross the bridge.
What a true honor, right?
Jesus Christ.
And finally get the White House, they have the White House staff, and they'd be ensuring that it feels a little better.
And for the West, for the way the writers belong, they don't get the feeling at all that it's a bad reception.
You know, they think it's good.
Why don't you see a good view of America?
This is a beautiful setting and everything.
Instead of in that trip, the streets are watching it.
I'm sure it's a disaster.
Some box was coming in from that shoulder.
It was actually pretty heavy.
Give some thought to that truck thing.
Yeah.
Boy, the truck hit me hard.
Stopped me in Istanbul, just for a few hours.
Nine or eights from your post.
But, uh, I mean, you could do it around in Istanbul.
Maybe the problem is whether or not we're going to anything that would increase the idea.
What about coal?
What do you do about the energy?
What about the national problem?
What do you do?
What do you do with the capital?
See, that's his point.
What he's saying is that if you just stop and if you want to just look down there and see what I've been at, of course he's checking if you want coal.
On the Florida schedule, we will try to have a briefing on Friday, but as far as you feel, that wouldn't work.
No, I think it will.
I think Friday is better than Wednesday.
You can tell them there's going to be big news, and the way you try to surround the rest of the night is something they're going to make the news.
But I think Friday would be a good thing in Florida.
There is a feeling, you know, I guess, that we should have a briefing.
They're thinking back to a couple of things in the first year when we did get some of that.
And being hypersensitive to anything, which they are now.
I mean, they're just like a scrape for all the nerve drive.
If anything ever says that, you know,
You know, the fact that you're on a breath, or that you sat down, or that you don't know very well what to do, that you're supposed to run full tilt all 24 hours a day.
And I just don't...
The hard-working president is the one thing we don't have any problem with.
And they make the point that you do... Sure, they make the point that you're out of the line, that you go to these places.
And to Camp David, for that matter.
But...
They also make the point that you work there.
Could you get a very, very, very, very small sample, maybe 300 or 400 ?
So you said the question .
Would you pay the debt penalty for ?
You see what I mean?
For hard, for traffickers, yeah.
Hard drugs.
Okay.
I wonder if people know what hard drugs are.
Well, maybe heroin, or one of the dangerous drugs.
Or you could set up the question so that you have a great concern about drugs and drug addiction.
and on and so forth.
Some have recommended a death penalty for those who engage in interstate and traffickers across state lines and so forth.
You see what I mean?
Like the Lindford Law for kidnapping.
Put it that way, like the Lindford Law for kidnapping.
Now, you might say, you know, the Lindbergh law provides a death penalty for kidnapping.
There are those who believe that they should have it or not.
I believe in it.
I'd like to know how strong a son of it is.
Maybe this is too strong.
Maybe that's just too strong of a person.
I doubt it would come up with any men.
But I would like to know how strongly people feel about the damn son of it.
I have a feeling that Congress should never pass it, but that would have one hell of a bearing on the traffic law.
What do you think?
I don't know.
They don't kill anybody that gets a penalty.
You don't hear anybody like that.
That's super important.
That's the whole of California.
See, it may be a moot point anyway.
Maybe we should.
Well...
life in prison without parole, and why don't we come up with that?
Maybe don't include that in the parole.
We've talked to a lot of people about life in prison without parole.
I don't know what you can have on the issue here.
That's what the damn parole thing is, is life in prison without parole.
For anybody engaged in that life in prison without parole, I don't think many people can oppose that to you.
Son of a bitch knows that he's going to be engaged with the government.
He goes to the pen and he stays there the rest of his life.
Should have, should have.
You know, if he had it on the right kind of offense, his death is going to go a lot better than mine.
But he can't do it.
It's a good line, you know what I mean?
I'm scared that the bureaucrats and all of them are sitting right there.
It's the non-managed together, they don't cooperate, they have to roll.
We've just got to get a little better on it, because it is a pending, it really is terrible, the government about this goddamn bureaucrat.
He can't fight about a thing like this, isn't it?
Who's going to get the credit?
Who's going to have the biggest office?
Who's going to have the, who's department is in, you know?
They all do it, though.
I know.
Don't you think you always have a price off if you didn't work hard, too?
He's only ever gone.
Oh, good.
He worked his ass off.
He's taking vacations.
Would you be sure that George Bush next speech is that he gets talking points
and the other members of the cabinet do on, you know, the next part of it.
George should just go out and make a speech about what he is doing about the UN, what a great job it's done.
He doesn't.
No, he hasn't.
He doesn't understand what the job is.
But the next support, I want to see Peter Shatner.
It's, it's along that line and getting that Monday thing out about world reaction to the Shatner thing.
I also told Ron that I wanted him to make some talks on Shatner.
you know what he could i think you should i think children should you know you've got anybody that's intelligent should never miss an opportunity when you're around to do it let's use our talent now you know the lines that happened there and i got you to be in a very
uh, a very, uh, objective thing, and then I, and, and, and then possibly why, why do we have to do, uh, do anything else?
Exactly.
We have got to explain the China thing.
I, it may be that, and I don't know what you say about that, and I'm kissing your fingers, I don't, I don't know the question, but maybe I can do something.
Okay.
On the other hand, my idea, obviously, is one who, if you go back, by all means, we all agree on that.
Someone just told me that, that, uh, they heard Scalmy.
He spoke here at a luncheon.
They heard him?
Yeah, and he just did a superb job.
Oh, I thought you said they heard him.
No, they heard Scali at a luncheon, at some group luncheon here in Washington.
And he comes on and he says, I'm a Democrat, registered Democrat, have been all my life.
I have spent all my life in the news business observing the people, and in foreign policy in the news business, observing people.
who are the leaders of the world and have all the other contenders in the way they work.
And throughout that time, I've observed Richard Nixon.
And I've been a great admirer of Richard Nixon through his public career.
And I always felt he was a very outstanding, capable man.
But then he goes and he sort of twists it around.
He says, after the China trip, I had the privilege of going to China with Richard Nixon, seeing his accent.
respect and understanding of his great skill and ability has increased 40 times from what it was before.
When he goes into, you know, that human testimony, you know, you get up and say, honey, by the way, it's like a stone, like imposing, you know, how he was doing.
Yeah.
And that's what that was.
As I told you, I don't know what he does in private sessions, because he made it differently.
But Henry does not get this across in his book.
He really doesn't.
Well, he's got too much on the plate himself, which is... Well, he's got more to talk about, you know.
Well, Kwanzaa's just telling me that he's got a thing on Sunday night where he's taking over the top talk show in Detroit, who he purges for an hour and a half, right?
He's going to conduct the show.
Well, they pick it up and it shows my quote.
We're so fortunate that we do.
And they have a bunch of old men.
But we can't even get, see if I can stumble through this.
It's not that it's stacked up, but I was invited to the election.
I read the general election.
George Smith, not just for his therapy.
And that's George's therapy.
George's therapy is a therapy.
So, our research is about three hours.
Cocoa waste produces, you know, not one destructive thing.
There is a destructive thing.
It doesn't add anything to the...
But you also think about when we first came here, you did every day, was that right?
That's right.
Every day?
Yeah, we started at 10 every morning and went until 6 every night like that.
That's right.
So I think we're doing great.
Yeah, it's better.