Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 692-004
Date: Thursday, March 23, 1972 at 5:03 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.
Recording device: Oval Office
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/692-004

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:00] with the pay board will continue but upi said this is a fight to finish we intend to win it win it the president said dp has applied not going to
[0:24] Well, that's representative of any special interest torpedo and sink effort to control inflation, so that's a good word.
[0:30] Yes, sir.
[0:31] They did a fight to the finish of the high-end just before I came in.
[0:35] That's good to know.
[0:37] It also has the finish of the idea of fighting media.
[0:40] Right.
[0:41] Fight to the finish?
[0:42] We can fight to the finish.
[0:45] Woodcock is not going to be on.
[0:48] I figured he would.
[0:49] He had an announcement at about 4 or 5 today.
[0:53] It was so funny.
[0:55] He blasted us, too.
[0:58] God, he blasted us.
[1:02] It's all right.
[1:04] I think it's a good thing, also, reading the fact that he represents 17% of the workers.
[1:12] Woodcock, they all have 20%.
[1:14] And they don't represent all that.
[1:15] I mean, there's a hell of a lot of better members they don't agree with, but it's in me.
[1:22] Well, I think the devices work pretty well, don't you?
[1:27] Absolutely.
[1:28] They've been walking around.
[1:29] Now, George, I want to just very briefly, not the film, I think they'll use that film on Jubal Charlotte.
[1:37] Well, we might get it along with it.
[1:43] I'm sorry I didn't time it, but I think it was less than two.
[1:47] 287 words.
[1:48] It was less than, I don't know, a few minutes.
[1:51] Of course it did, but I think we used 140 words.
[1:55] It was about two minutes, a quarter of a minute.
[1:59] And it may have been too long, but I couldn't really cut it any less.
[2:01] I couldn't cut it any more.
[2:04] That was the right length.
[2:10] I think also that, of course, I'll cut that out.
[2:13] It took time, but we were referring to the statement.
[2:16] Yeah, yeah.
[2:17] That was the idea.
[2:18] But the fight to defend the main thing.
[2:21] Also that the people were trying to demean the wrong.
[2:27] They did well.
[2:28] No leader, no matter how powerful the president is, can put himself above, you know, and he has pretty good lines.
[2:38] Yeah.
[2:45] Now there's a call tomorrow with the president.
[2:49] Three o'clock.
[2:50] Sure.
[2:50] So I have three.
[2:50] I think we'll give them 30 minutes, probably, enough tomorrow.
[2:57] I plan to be very brief in the answer tomorrow.
[2:59] I guess the Russian side of the idea, and all that crap, I don't know.
[3:05] I'll take some time to answer the questions.
[3:09] Pat and I talked about that.
[3:10] Not Wallace.
[3:12] Pat, you said if I could gain something by getting a different kind of Wallace than Muskie, then screw it.
[3:22] In the memo we sent, I stated my view.
[3:25] There's also this Watson thing.
[3:28] I don't think you should touch that either.
[3:29] The Secretary... Why don't you say I have confidence in him?
[3:34] You have confidence in him.
[3:36] Now, they may get into the question of...
[3:39] Fulbright's came out of the committee hearing and said, but I don't think you should get into that so much.
[3:49] The secretary feels that he has committee good shape not to move to, I'm giving you his view, not to move to a congressional hearing on it.
[3:59] what he told them, that Watson was a contact point and a communications link, and that there weren't going to be an extensive negotiation there.
[4:06] And if there were extensive negotiations, well, then there would be specialists involved.
[4:11] Specialists involved?
[4:12] I mean, they're a kind of sort of ambassador.
[4:14] But if they asked about the Watson thing, I think you could just refer that to the White House statement.
[4:19] It really didn't have anything to add, except you have confidence in it.
[4:23] It was as good as I thought it was going to be.
[4:26] Right, and he will continue in his role as we initially announced.
[4:30] See, that would be the launch of this government.
[4:32] Now, have you covered planning
[4:36] What have you said about that?
[4:39] Well, I had a question on Flanagan.
[4:42] I said, well, Mr. Xavier, answer that question.
[4:45] I responded to the Flanagan thing when Eagleton took him on.
[4:48] And it's got pretty heavy play.
[4:50] And I expressed your confidence in him that he's being wrongly attacked and so forth.
[4:56] But I didn't relate it to... Is Flanagan going to make a statement?
[5:00] There's not much pressure for him to do it now.
[5:03] See, what I've said, what we've said, the position we've held on long is that McLaren has covered his involvement, and he'd be willing to respond in another appropriate way.
[5:13] Would the president invoke executive privilege if he was called gentleman?
[5:16] That question's not before us.
[5:18] They haven't asked him to come.
[5:20] If he was asked, I'm sure executive privilege would apply.
[5:24] Uh, but, uh, McLaren is on it.
[5:26] I think so, because the Flanagan thing is not...
[5:30] He has indicated to you the confidence that I have in Mr. Flanagan here.
[5:39] That's what I thought.
[5:40] I think that the more I can throw out the questions I don't want to answer, by throwing them off to you, the better.
[5:51] Or Mr. Mitchell, for example, is covering that.
[5:53] The Justice Department.
[5:55] I have nothing to add.
[5:57] Mr. Mitchell has done this tonight.
[6:00] I think though this device, when we have a really good story, is a way to do it.
[6:07] Do you think so?
[6:08] Yes.
[6:08] And the film always comes off very well, I think.
[6:13] Yeah, but going out and getting them right at 4 o'clock with a good, sharp, hard-headed stick, that'll make the news.
[6:21] Now, that's better on than if I go out and make a speech.
[6:24] Don't you think so?
[6:25] It's a very good idea.
[6:27] A 15-minute speech about me, and I don't belabor the goddamn thing.
[6:31] It'll get it across.
[6:32] It fights the fish.
[6:33] You know what I mean?
[6:37] I may have delivered a little too hard on it, but I don't know.
[6:41] No, I don't think so.
[6:41] It won't come over.
[6:43] I think you were very, you did not appear angry or too, but you appeared firm, but relaxed.
[6:51] And I think the presentation on that was good.
[6:56] We need sometimes a little anger, too, I suppose, from people.
[7:00] I don't think that people support me necessarily.
[7:03] Well, I don't think so.
[7:07] He has, you know, some support in the labor ranks.
[7:12] But the people out in the country, you know, they support the president who's trying to get something done versus the guy who's trying to undercut or attack the president.
[7:31] Really, most attacks against the President have a Boomerang-ian effect on an attacker, to a great extent, because the American people, most people don't like this.
[7:43] I was generous with him.
[7:44] I said, I respect him as a powerful leader, organized leader.
[7:49] That's as far as I would go.
[7:52] They had earlier said that they had something in which I rejected.
[7:56] George Shultz wanted me to say that I respect him for his great service to the country and times past.
[8:04] Why don't they meet up that way?
[8:05] Don't you agree?
[8:07] Screw it.
[8:09] He's going to be hit.
[8:10] Hit him.
[8:11] No, he hits us.
[8:11] He's insane.
[8:12] He respects us.
[8:12] All right.
[8:12] We'll just stay right out there.
[8:15] We're just going to fight him.
[8:16] We're going to fight him.
[8:18] It's going to be a fight to the finish.
[8:21] And they've got a fight to the finish line.
[8:23] Yeah, that's an interesting one.
[8:26] And a torpedo attack.
[8:28] A torpedo attack.
[8:28] Could I continue?
[8:35] The other thing, too, that people can't help but overlook is the fact that you had breakfast with me.
[8:41] You've had ongoing breakfast with me.
[8:45] The guilt was over the day before.
[8:47] So the effort on your part to communicate with the man has been there, and then he walks out and makes a blatant statement.
[9:00] That's good.
[9:01] That morning show gets quite a play.
[9:11] Yeah, right.
[9:13] I loaded two of them.
[9:15] Would you point out that it's been an hour of green?
[9:21] That's a very, very, very good.
[9:24] but it's been very, very important on the reaction of China to this issue.
[9:33] And I know, I know, I know, I know that in these, in these countries, there's going to be a lot of people, a lot of people, a lot of people, a lot of people, a lot of people, a lot of people, a lot of people, a lot of people, a lot of people, a lot of people, a lot of people,
[10:03] You know, that's stupid Watson.
[10:06] Why anybody that's, you know, who's an ambassador or a senator or a congressman is the same.
[10:12] Of course, those guys are very, very nice.
[10:14] Our poor ambassadors will pay for a lot of jail and horror houses.
[10:18] Sure.
[10:18] It's horrible.
[10:19] You know what I mean?
[10:20] Sure.
[10:21] After one of those guys who became common this fall.
[10:24] Uh, he's, uh, he won the last house of the sheriff's general's office.
[10:34] It's unfortunate, though.
[10:37] Oh, okay.
[10:38] He was on a public airplane.
[10:44] I mean, on a... On an airplane.
[10:46] And the head of the store, Mr. McCree, didn't hear anything from him.
[10:55] Well, apparently the report is that he was stuffing money in her.
[11:01] Exactly.
[11:05] But the Secretary told me that just in a phone call...
[11:12] But he's doing something again?
[11:14] No, but he has done this before.
[11:18] The Secretary told me... Not since he's been ambassador?
[11:21] Not since he's been ambassador, apparently, years ago.
[11:23] And the Secretary says people know that too, so that's just a conflict of faith.
[11:30] Okay.
[11:37] Well, I think tomorrow is a good idea.
[11:39] Good idea is a good way to wind up the week.
[11:42] And then I set us up for going to my East Room conference just two weeks from now.
[11:48] Right.
[11:49] And then two weeks from now will be a good time.
[11:52] I'll get a chance to do one East Room then, and I'll follow up with another East Room about three weeks just before the Russian trip.
[11:57] That'll be the time.
[11:58] That'll be good.
[12:00] Get a mark, catch a mark.
[12:03] I don't want to get you into something.
[12:23] I'm glad it's working.
[12:25] The radio is speaking up.
[12:33] Better not say that.
[12:34] Better not say that.
[12:36] Well, I would indicate that I'm not there to work, though.
[12:43] What do you want to cover this time?
[12:47] What I can say is President spent the weekend at Camp David.
[12:51] He had a number of papers to go over.
[12:53] He had a number of things that he had to put aside briefly while in a payboard situation.
[12:59] He's a
[13:03] It's a domestic area, right?
[13:05] We're working with domestic policies and beliefs.
[13:10] Why don't you say beliefs?
[13:18] Say some speeches.
[13:21] That really spooks.
[13:22] Then you can say, when is the Canadian?
[13:27] April.
[13:27] Well, it comes the next weekend.
[13:31] You understand?
[13:33] You don't want to say it.
[13:38] You say it's going to be on domestic matters, on domestic matters that we involve the whole domestic program.
[13:47] You say it's going to be on private matters.
[13:51] You say it's going to be on the government sharing, the federal reform, the environment.
[13:58] So at least it would be, you know, it would be most useful to
[14:02] believes that we're almost at Easter recess, but no action on the major initiatives that the President has recommended.
[14:11] I don't know if you could say that one or two, why don't you put that out there?
[14:16] No action on the major initiatives the President has recommended, or at least they're working on a program for, to prop the Congress into action before they have to adjourn for the Democratic convention.
[14:32] The time is running out.
[14:33] The time is running out.
[14:36] This Congress has got to...
[14:38] It's spending its time.
[14:44] It's got to be caught up in things.