Conversation 694-002

Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

I'll save that for the end of the ITP case.

Well, what are they going to say?

Yes.

Sure.

It's a marvelous story.

It's perfect.

In fact, I wrote a political inquisition, and I said a bedside inquisition in the hospital.

He'll get it.

And the major thing is that he's going to start, he's going to demand now that they terminate the hearings unless there is some other evidence to be offered that bears upon the fitness of Mr. Klein, who used to be Attorney General.

Now that...

The crack that we're in is that Eastland on Sunday, well, the crack that we were in is that Eastland on Sunday said, if you do that, you're going to lose a batch of Democrats.

That's my feeling.

However, we got to Eastland this afternoon, who had not read the press accounts of what happened in Denver, and gave them a complete fill-in, as Marty did, on what had happened, including Kennedy's question.

And Eastland, according to Marty, exploded over the telephone.

He said, that's outrageous.

He said, absolutely outrageous.

He said, I'm going to...

Yes, sir.

God damn it, why can't we get that out?

Well, we've got to attend to him.

We've got to attack him.

I was going to say that one of the wire services said it was acrimonious, but somebody ought to attack him who's there.

That's right.

Will Marlowe do it?

Well, I talked to Marlowe before he left the plane for back here.

I wrote him an old Irish attorney, and I told him, well, he ought to get out there and say, as a defender of women, I attacked with vicious tactics, and the senator attacked him.

Well, that made him a woman.

He didn't have to get the fact without being...

Well, Rusk has been asked to use it, and they.

Scott has been asked to use it, and they.

And they're having a joint press conference at 4.

Cook has been asked to, and I think he might.

And we've prepared one for Dole, if he'll give it.

So if somebody will attack Kennedy, you're going to surface the issue.

But Eastland... Eastland might.

Apparently he got very angry over this.

He said, I want that woman to finish her testimony.

But I'm not going to subject her to that sort of treatment again.

We're going to permit her to finish her testimony by affidavit.

And I would like to have her affidavit concluding everything she wants to say, put it into the committee record.

And then I'm ready to join with the Republicans in hollering to bring this thing to an end now.

Eastland has been very slippery with us at times, but if he means what he says, next week we might get these things ended.

Not this week, because Eastland won't come back from Mississippi this week.

In fact, half the Senate is gone.

They're just taking the week off.

Already?

Already.

What the hell are we having a leaders' meeting tomorrow, then?

I was wondering, I saw that, and I was wondering what you did have on the agenda.

You know, really, though, the conduct of this Congress is so disgraceful that somebody's got to hurt you in the ass.

Well, McGregor's agreed to do it Friday, as at least for openness.

Let him.

Well, if he briefs out here...

And if he gets angry about some of the things we haven't done, I think he'll get some pressure.

But Clark is willing to do it.

Well, we do... Marianne is supposed to deny the White House, but hasn't yet.

No, and... And won't.

Well, we have a second problem there.

He's in the Barbados.

And we've been trying to reach him by phone, or his lawyers have.

The difficulty...

Your point is, it wasn't anything to do anyway, but... No.

The difficulty is, Mr. President, that he thinks he did talk to tenants.

I don't mind it.

And so we're trying very hard to nail down the collapse.

He did.

We don't want to lie about it.

That's why I'm being a little bit careful.

Until we're able to get him on the telephone.

The story I got this morning is from Garrity.

And Garrity said, no, nobody ever called.

That was a made-up thing.

This idea that he only put this out as a way to stop everything.

That, of course, doesn't sound right to me.

No, that was Gary.

Thank God we didn't have Ziggler or Warren to knock on the laptop.

We can't deny that.

Simmons doesn't recall it, but if Marion does, we just have to get that resolved somehow.

What did he say?

What the hell was Simmons doing here?

Well, he was running the convention.

Yes.

I mean, he was in charge of setting up the convention arrangements.

So he would have been the logical one to talk to ITT if they had made a convention pledge.

And if anybody would have talked to him, it would have been logical to him.

We don't want him to deny it.

I don't want any people lying about this damn thing.

No, thus far we've been very, very fortunate that the stories have cracked very well.

I don't want to get us in that position.

Marion, Gary... Why didn't Marion say the only conversation he had with anybody in the White House, with the Christianas, was simply with regard to the convention details, or with regard to hoping he'd stay at the Sheridan Hotel or something?

Oh, it's true.

That's what they said.

That's what they had said.

Yeah.

That's the kind of conversation he had.

It was an old conversation.

See, Timmons is not in the line of fire on this ITT thing.

He talked to Plant and they're in trouble.

No, Timmons isn't, and that's why it... Well, we may get it clarified before 5 o'clock, because we've asked ITT to get something out on the record.

Timmons is a miserable goddamn...

organization to handle their PR, whatever it is, in front of the crisis.

But then after that, I mean, by any means, shake them down to their IT.

Well, the trouble is they have ten people in the act.

That's true.

They're all fighting with each other.

And you can't make a decision, and you call them, and they're in the middle of a committee, and they've got lawyers and investigators, public relations people, and they're watching them.

They always need one man.

That's right.

If you just could put one person to make the decisions, it'd be a breeze.

They did all right for us on Saturday, putting out those test reports.

Yeah.

They handled it very well.

But most people just find it like they're going to be all for it.

Is there anything, or do you think that's all?

No, that was what we wanted to do, but they didn't want it.

They didn't want to do it unless they were called in.

The two experts felt that it would look like they were promoting themselves.

Yeah, I would love to have done that, but...

We were on such thin ice getting what we wanted out of them that I didn't want it.

Well, we'll see.

The committee goes on with its hearings.

The Republican system calling on the experts.

Sure.

Absolutely.

But I think if indeed Eastland is mad, and I...

I think what we have to be prepared for is that the Senate may not confirm it.

I'd say the odds now are very tough.

I've been saying that all along.

I think that...

Wally Johnson had always said that he couldn't be confirmed, and Mitchell said, oh, yes, he can.

But I don't think, I think Mitchell misses a little bit.

He always said he worked, because, you know, naturally he recommended it.

But if he isn't going to be confirmed, then you should get it over with, and I'll send another name down there, and that's that.

At this point, we wouldn't lose a one.

If we had a vote tomorrow, we wouldn't lose a single Republican.

Pure Republicans.

They sacrifice this.

That's right.

That's all the more reason why I want to force the issue.

I want to get them to have to face it head on.

All they have to do?

Well, they're going to... And the committee's got to get on to other business.

Somebody ought to start slashing the committee.

What the hell is he doing with the moratorium?

Get him on the moratorium.

The busing moratorium legislation.

That's supposed to be next, isn't it?

Yes, sir.

Why the hell would they get him on that?

That's a good time to start.

Well, I'm not sure I can sign this thing.

HR, what?

What?

Change my mind.

I did have you know sign it, Tom.

I had a thousand dollars.

It'll save you.

I had some serious doubts about it.

I decided to take another check on it.

You could have checked the Ziegler right away if it was going to breathe it.

It's breathing now.

It was supposed to start at 3 o'clock.

Oh, it's breathing on this one?

Yes, sir.

Send it back in.

We're done.

I think what you'd better do is get a... Oops.

He understands he's already...

That's another good line of attack, but they can't handle the busing issue as long as they're trying.

Try and get some people on the phone on that.

What the hell?

Why don't they get off of this and get the busing legislation over here?

Yeah, but Griffin would love to sit.

Why doesn't he say this?

Yeah, I'll get Griffin to sit here.

He's here at 10.

He's hung up there.

You just said the Senate is hung up here.

You're bussing to try to go forward.

We'll maybe use this with tomorrow's colloquy.

Today we have, with Scott, Rusker, Cook, and Dole, we have a pretty good lineup.

The Senate just opened today.

No, but Rusker and Scott had their press conference at 4.

Cook, we had a range of press conferences at Delos when he arrived from Denver.

And Dole was put out of safety.

No, there are really virtually no one in the Senate today.

He was saying that half the Senate is gone.

I have to start the week.

So we have a meeting tomorrow.

I hope for what?

There's a Senate meeting tomorrow.

She doesn't make any difference to the Senate.

The question is, is the Senate able to do business?

The goddamn Senate, the fights are all the way.

I know, I knew that.

But they didn't meet today, so they had a reason to be away.

Their Senate was closed.

I guess why the Senators haven't left.

And they're going to stay away like Easter.

Like Eastman said, he wouldn't be, wouldn't come back this week at all.

And the Ruskers said that Gurney had gone to Florida, and that he and the Papayas had gone to the west coast.

You see, that's a committee.

Don't have any illusions that they're going to be back here for the next meeting tomorrow.

There's no vote.

Are they having a vote tomorrow?

I don't know.

I'd like to say that, you know, talk about the vote there.

How are they going to earn their money?

Well, I think you've done the forgetting.

I think you've done as good as you can on the thing.

The thing about it is this, that now Merriam says he's afraid he did talk to Timmons.

So, what did Timmons say?

Timmons said he did not until after this event.

Then he talked to Merriam.

Merriam may not remember.

That's the whole problem.

Well, it wouldn't surprise me in the end.

That's the point.

I told, we've never gotten out there now on any line that we haven't, that we've denied it.

But the point is, they say he talks to him, he had an adventure, and it's about the staying at the Sheraton Hotel.

I talked to Gary this morning, and he said it was just a ruse to get

He didn't tell the truth.

I don't want him to deny it.

For Christ's sake, don't get down that road.

And don't hit Dennis down that road.

It's not any worth a damn.

They'll say, well, now, everyone call Timmons down.

Well, I think talking to Timmons, for example, it would...

If they had probably planned it, for example, that would be different, because he doesn't do it at the convention.

It's a little like a straight deal, so I'm sorry.

See?

But the town is going to practice it at the convention.

Well, that's right.

In fact, that's the first thing that actually made that point.

One of the points that he made was that if he would give this money, the president would stay at the hotel, or that would be the president's headquarters hotel.

The tenants was the guy at the White House that's handing convention arrangements.

It would be logical to ask.

So for Christ's sake.

I think he did agree that that would be the corporate hotel or whatever they asked.

Well, for Christ's sake.

Well, everybody has understood I was staying at a hotel.

But they have a setup, you know, with all the

White House people that are going to be here for the platform thing.

Ziegler just put out the fact that I'm sitting in San Clemente already.

I think he did last week.

Well, I've started doing any of it in this prison, and I wouldn't get on it.

In fact, if you agreed to the sheriff, it won't be the headquarters hotel.

You've got to knock that off now anyway.

I mean, there's no reason to stick out there and get your head chopped off or, you know, I'm just going to have it.

You were talking about that, that Jeanine would withdraw this thing because they said it wasn't going to be here or something.

That's good.

See, that was part of his, that was what he was doing.

He's got a new hotel that hasn't built yet.

It's going to be done in time for the convention.

That's right.

In order to launch that new hotel, they wanted to have it be there.

Yeah.

That's what he had testified to yesterday.

It was her idea to get business into their new hotel.

Fine.

All right.

It's not going to be the headquarters hotel.

I just can't do it now, Bob.

It's too late now.

I don't care what it is.

Since the goddamn convention, that's good, too.

It's Wilson, the rest of the crew, but not anyway.

I don't agree, John.

Right now, you go walking into the Sheraton Hotel, there'll be pictures, there'll be the television picture, there'll be the ITT.

I don't think you should go into any hotel and say, I'm not, but we shouldn't have it as the president's...

It means that we must be, we must be oblivious to what the PR is on this one.

I just walk away from it.

Then you can't go to Arnold Smith's hotel either, I guess.

I couldn't agree more.

Just stay the hell out of the hotels.

Use a motel.

Use nothing, anything.

He said it's a valley high.

Yeah, sure.

It doesn't make all that much difference.

What was that place?

Beautiful.

It's 68th.

It's the old U.S. Grand.

The old motel.

It's so nice.

Cortez?

Oh, Cortez, not bad.

I'm worried about her.

Well, on this one, though, believe me, it isn't going to be the hotel, the official hotel of the president.

God damn it, if it is, we're just out of our minds.

What happened to this money tonight?

Oh, they turned it down already.

They were $3,000 or something like that.

$25,000.

Yeah, that's bad.

I think at this time, I wouldn't allow anything to hang out there.

But you don't need to.

It isn't a question as it was earlier when it had been a confession for proof.

But at the present time, with all the dust that's up there, you just don't raise it to truth.

Well, you don't give them something that they can miss.

There's nothing more to that.

There's some way to keep the story going for another day.

Some way to get another story at a later time.

See, that's my theory.

I don't mind fighting, but I don't believe it.

I don't believe in giving people open targets.

When somebody, for example, is under assault, low profile for a while, you know, sticking his head out, getting his head rubbed, his brains knocked out,

But, on this one, what you have to do is to get, despite what he said, is to get a vote.

It's one way or the other.

And get it rejected if necessary.

And then go on to somebody else.

Well, the prospects of getting it rejected are less like horses for a vote now.

And I think everybody, even the Justice Department guys who are fighting us on this early today, they've now come around and agreed that if it drives,

And they call me eleven witnesses that they still have on the witness schedule.

Well, they're never going to get to him.

That's the point.

He'll never get to him.

It'll be at the Democratic Convention.

That will be his speech, every speech.

That's what they're trying to do.

And we're infinitely better off getting Clinton each rejected than having him hang, I think.

That's right.

We should force a vote and not worry about which way it goes.

Either way that it goes is better than it not going.

Well, we were panicked that Eastland wouldn't approve of this press conference, and so Rusker and I agreed we wouldn't call.

And Marty didn't call, and to my amazement, Eastland said, great, about time you guys got clear cooking.

ITT still hasn't been able to reach Marion to get first-hand information.

They'll issue the statement as soon as they can.

But they want to be careful, because he is supposed to be a witness, so they don't want to put out a statement that will be laid out to him.

You just got picked up on there.

That was not a news story.

He said that was an original memorandum.

Telephone call.

The White House phone call.

If he starts up, I'm sorry you got that phone call from the White House.

Yeah.

And she's referring to Mary.

See, that's why he has to be very careful now what he says.

Yeah.

That's the opening line, if you remember.

And, or I'm sorry, EJG got that phone call from the White House.

Gary, it's unclear whether it was Gary or Mary.

Yeah, that's what she said.

I'm sorry he took that call from the White House.

Do you think that was Tim?

No, well, they were afraid of it, and we think it was Gleason who called Gary, and that we were prepared to be able to just deny no White House call.

But now Merriam thinks that he also got a call from Timmons, which Timmons does not have a call, and until we can be sure Merriam is cleared,

It isn't, you know, what they're trying to make something out of is the new figure, $600,000.

Why the hell would you say that?

I don't know.

That was, that took us all by surprise.

It wasn't in her statement.

She just worded out, God knows...

She did very well with that one exception, that one slip.

$600,000.

How much did they give?

IQB?

How much?

I thought it was $100,000.

Actually, $100,000.

$400,000 was pledged.

$100,000 was given.

The $400,000 pledge was in a couple of parts.

And it was actually only 200 in terms of the cash guarantee.

And the balance was goods and services.

That's what started the whole... And that pledge was not a pledge that they would give.

No.

It was that if they were unable to raise the money from other sources, they would underwrite a shortage.

That's right.

Up to that amount.

And the $100,000 deposited nearly as... Well, actually, it's a good business investment for a hotel, particularly if they got me to stay there, which, of course, I would never do.

Well, even if they made it to the headquarters hotel, because, Christ, look at the publicity, all the platform hearings, all the bust that comes out.

That hotel, the kind of blackstone hotel, nobody had ever heard of it, except for the property.

You understand it cannot be there.

I don't care what, in the name of God, anybody says it cannot be at the Sheridan Hotel.

Just back off of that, if you agree.

Yes, sir.

There's three sheriffs on top, so it can't be that young.

I should say that.

That'd be at the Hilton on down there on the hill, too.

I like that very much.

No, not this time.

Where's Bob Wilson?

He's lying around the way someplace.

We're hoping we can keep him out of town for a while.

Consenting of Hawaii, he is unbelievable.

Yes, he is.

Wouldn't he be a disaster?

He was only here one day last week, and he made a big fuss that he wanted to testify.

Because he had to be out of town the rest of the week.

We finally turned that off and got him out of town.

I don't think he's here this week.

Happily, he's staying distant.

It's confusing as hell.

Well...

I think nothing else is more important to you.

Because...

I think you're right, though.

The backs of our guys haven't been fighting, calling for a vote, and shouting filibuster and smear.

Well, we might even have to boycott the hearings this Wednesday.

The plan was to bring Janine on this Wednesday, and then have an executive session a week from Wednesday,

He'll have a great opportunity without us.

Well, that's what I was thinking.

It is a good witness.

Yeah.

He doesn't need us.

Because our guy doesn't have anything they want to drag out of him.

No, hell no.

In fact, we...

He'll volunteer all the questions he wants.

Yeah.

He's well primed.

But we can raise hell today and raise hell tomorrow, and then Wednesday boycott the hearings, which would be a good signal.

And then Rusko wasn't too keen on that, but I think I'd get him around.

They don't know when they're getting raped.

That's the problem.

They just don't know.

They really don't.

They believe that these guys are trying to be fair, honest.

Ruska had a tabulation of the record of the hearings to date, and 33%...

Of all copy of the transcripts, of all pages, has been Ted Kennedy's questioning.

He has had one third of the hearings, total, which Ruskin said he was going to use at 4 o'clock today.

And the Democrats have had 70% of the questioning time, to 30% for the Republicans.

So it just shows you how poor our fellows are at this.

Well, they have a ten-minute rule, you know, ten-minute... And Kennedy just keeps going.

Apparently they don't enforce it.

And our guys voluntarily observe it because we play by the rules, so...

Oh, that's really, that's what we've been doing.

37 hours behind in questioning.

So we'll take the first 37 hours.

They are now, they're going to start addressing that.

But we have to get caught up first.

Maybe force that issue in that committee.

Take our long supper now.

Right now we have the votes in the committee to get Kleinke's out.

Yes, sir.

To get him out of the committee...

There'll be a hell of a battle on the floor, and a possible filibuster, and the real question is whether we can get 35 senators to break the filibuster.

Well, if you can't, the thing to do is to claim to withdraw.

If he's filibustered, there are ideas.

He must not be in a position where he's still up.

At the time of the Democratic Convention, you understand that law.

You just cannot have that situation.

You couldn't afford it.

Why?

He's already in a forced situation.

Can he come out of there?

Well, it's a straight and party line vote.

Yeah, if it goes in a party line vote, it's a different issue than if they let him die.

If they let him withdraw, it's a huge blast to go over to become Mitchell's deputy running the campaign where we need him.

Let's see if we can get him through for assist.

If we can, that wipes the slate clean.

They'll never let him up.

I see it.

I see it's going to be a filibuster.

Kennedy and Tenney are just playing this for all it is worth.

Don't let him.

We got real guts.

Well, it doesn't even take guts.

All it takes is a minimal amount of intelligence.

It's a good audience for them.

That's right.

What the hell, that's the way they're going to make themselves.

They're putting their thought in our heart, and we just don't have enough guys.

It's true.

It's really sad that we don't.

Well, it's harder to fight because the offense has the super advantage and stuff like that.

The defense isn't.

Terrible disadvantage.

Yeah, but even when we go on the offense...

When we're on the offense, it's just offensive defense.

Yeah, well, of course, they have a terrific advantage.

Perhaps we haven't beaten them range on all the time.

Even though the chairman is with them, he gives them the courtesy of his advantage.

Yeah, he's been weak up until now.

We may sit in his back at this point.

I think if he feels he's got a Republican revolt on his hands, he'll come around.

Because he's been trying to keep harmony on both sides.

Bussing thinks it's a pretty good idea to get the bussing issues back on that.

That's right.

I just feel about the fact that Rickards should say, we've got to get this busing amendment out.

I'll talk about it.

And he ought to say that the committee is delayed, and we're not going to get it through.

They can't come to the conference doing this.

No.

They've got to get this damn thing through.

That's the president's footpiece.

Mm-hmm.

That's the party's footpiece.

Oh, and busing piece.

What all happens turns on on that issue.

Unfortunately, we've got Scott here, and it's a team for it.

The leaders have to be in the army.

Now that would be a good thing to come out of the leadership meeting.

It won't come out of Scott.

It's very important to do that.

But you see, you can't say there was Scott and Scott was for the other people.

Even before there was Scott and Scott.

Maybe if there's going to be a briefing on busing, Scott would be glad to step aside for Griffin.

If Griffin's up this year, let him get the credit.

Maybe it would be very different with that.

We'll bring Griffin in and see what's going to move on this.

Yeah, the system minority leader has taken responsibility for this legislation.

It's a good way for Scott to get off the hook and Griffin to get some proof.

I'll check and see if that's true.

I don't know.

I think you're right.

Whenever you can.

We'll stay with us because the trouble is you've got a very poor bunch of cast characters, Chuck.

It's your problem.

The case is a good one, actually.

I mean, it's, just like we say, it's so immense talk to them.

That's fine.

Just admit it.

Don't state how immense he talks to them.

They called, Janine called him and said, or somebody, whoever it was, Gary, and said, would you stay at our hotel?

And he said, well, I can't, you know, stay.

Or maybe he's got something in writing where it says it's going to be the headquarters of Charlton.

I don't know what the ITT has said.

I don't know what they have said.

No, we've been altered from this side.

And through all Whitehead sites.

He was out there this week when he was supposed to check.

And he was given this.

He was out in San Diego.

Hopefully he's doing exactly what he should do, but we've got to check it out.

This is nice to be sure, I must say.

I don't see how you're going to be able to kill it, though.

I must say, you've got to keep dropping this, not leave the rest, but I must say, looking at it from the standpoint of the other side,

And looking at the fact that they only got two months.

Do they want anybody to do this through April or May?

Well, two months and a half, April, May, middle of June.

Well, they're getting to June, and that's dead.

But you see, Christ, they have a moment to go with that long.

And I think we better start thinking about what the alternatives are.

We better start thinking about what our clients might not have before.

That's what I think.

Well, better than withdrawing this person.

Yes.

You should get a vote.

But you can't get a vote.

No, but better than a withdrawal would be for him to take the gloves off and do what we wanted him to do once before.

And that is just raise holy hell that these hearings that he asked for had turned into this inquisition.

And that, by God, a woman's life was almost sacrificed.

Life turned around.

You see, he might get mad if he could get outraged

The reason he didn't want to do it before, he didn't want to jeopardize the vote.

He's going to lose the vote.

He cannot be confirmed.

You see, the thing is, I can watch this closely, and I never believe a problem he's got.

But declines cannot be confirmed, Attorney General.

Not now.

That's the way it's going right now.

That's right.

So under the circumstances, what you have to do is to make the best of it.

You should make the best of it.

The best you can make is for Clint East to cut loose.

He's got the... Well, so he cuts loose, though.

What happens then?

Oh, then they vote him down.

And they reject him.

But you see, then the case is they voted him down because he stepped forward and said...

I don't think they'll let him get to a vote.

That's my point.

They voted him down fine, but how the hell did he still get by that point?

You mean the fact that he attacks him, makes him vote him down?

Well, he could give him another make.

He could demand a vote within 30 days, or two days, or something like that.

What he could do is turn the tables by saying, I asked these people, and what has happened now is that decent people are being smeared.

And also, I can't allow the Justice Department to go without these things.

It's a very important matter that I've got plussing interventions that I have approved.

That's right.

And this is weakening the whole world.

It's really quite true.

By doing that, submitting his resignation, or his withdrawal, effective the 15th, that there hasn't been action in the Senate by that time.

Do it two steps at last, which will cause them to scream and might begin to search a little further.

And then a quiet thing saying, in order to not impede the operation of the department, all of us, the Senate must act.

If the Senate doesn't act by the 15th, I will be gone.

By the 15th of April?

No.

You're saying it is clear that the Senate...

The way I might put it this way, it's clear that the Senate Democratic leadership has determined to delay this confirmation and not bring it to a vote.

This is a highly irresponsible act.

I will not allow the Justice Department...

Officer, I revere the use in this way.

If I have not confirmed with the 15th, I'll submit my resignation.

All I ask is to vote, up or down.

But, uh, let's, uh, we've been out there all this time.

Yes, sir.

Well, in a way, it's better than just withdrawing his name, because he's doing it on a fighting basis.

Yeah.

Throwing the gauntlet down, up or down.

He's forcing us to vote him out on that fight.

How are you in action?

Yes, sir.

You can't, you,

I asked for a vote for the Senate.

I said, we've had these hearings for four weeks.

I asked for a vote for the Senate.

Then they'll all scream and say, well, you can't throw, you can't issue an olemate under the Senate.

I say, I'm not issuing an olemate.

This thing's gone for a month now.

I asked for it.

He's not hearing what I asked for.

He gets to repeat that.

You've gone on a fainting expedition to detain the life of a woman, to become another woman, a mother of five, and return to circumstances like that.

And you've defeated the progress of the Justice Department.

Well, you really have an attorney general and a deputy attorney general who are awaiting confirmation.

You really have the top two officials of the department that are in London.

That's great.

See, they haven't determined... Is he involved in any of this stuff now?

No.

No, Eastland is dead set.

For a deputy?

Yeah, he almost lost it last weekend.

Why?

I don't know why it is.

Eastland just doesn't like that very much.

He's a nice client, so he says.

Oh, my boy.

That ploy just might work on top of everything else.

There ain't got to be any more nominations to mention that Senate this year.

It does give him a hell of a feel, doesn't it?

No, we can't do it.

We just can't.

We just can't do it for the people that you send up either.

That's just rude.

And everyone you send up, they're going to find some tie to something that they can make a hearsay connection on.

Well, I think you better understand, without really relating it to what my ideas are, you better sit around and think about this with it.

You thought you had screwed along too long, and you've got to cut it off one way or another.

I think it has something to do with why these can't make it.

I don't think it will be confirmed.

I think it will either be filibustered.

It will be voted in, it will be revoked, but it will never go along.

It will never go along.

It will filibuster through the convention, and then we're dead.

And we've got a hell of an issue then.

Yeah, because I'm a hell of a live issue.

This way, all of this stuff, with nothing found wrong, all of this stuff will have been washed away.

I think that...

It's quite important to keep Pete's profile pretty low for a while.

And that's why I want to tell them when they're here, that they have a big public side, and what they say, the guy from Canada is going to say it, meeting with Blanningham at the White House, and it's got that man.

And race, holy hell, man, can't win.

Well, excuse me, you know what I mean?

It's a...

But that's when I say it isn't fair, it isn't fair, and it will change.

But at the present time, it's a hot problem.

You know, we must close our eyes to that, even when our peers and friends are falling ill. Let's face it, it's about the same situation as Murray was, you know, at the present time.

Well, if they haven't negotiated, why don't they move everybody in to negotiate?

It needs to be confirmed by the Senate, and it needs to...

But Flanagan can't do it.

It shouldn't be done at the White House anyway.

I don't want the White House to learn.

I don't want you talking to all the other people and all the other companies and all the rest.

You know what I mean?

So you've got some people roughing their harpoons off for you?

Yep.

And you agree with Biden also?

Sure do.

And if it is, I frankly like it.

I think he could do it.

I see no problem in that.

No, it's the White House again.

Well, he's the domestic counsel, which is at least a separate vote, but it's, well, let me put it this way, it's the individual right now in the White House that's trying to, and so we can't have Whitaker, Senator Pete Spielberg, things you just don't want the White House to do.

No one hurt Pete's feeling if Pete understands this.

It's a dirty game.

It's a protection to him.

He's in a position now where you can't put him on negotiating.

For the rest of this year, he can't do it until after the auction.

Then he should move into something else anyway.

That's right.

He's got to function as an inside guy, not dealing with outside people.

With regard to this...

I'm trying to generalize.

I think that the only fault that I would think of that has the qualifications for the job who might be confirmed or not, too long a hearing is greater.

Right.

We're at this stage where it doesn't make any difference who taps the Congress anyway, so that's probably the rule that most people have to make.

But we cannot, we just can't continue to hang on to this.

It's quite easy.

It's rather clear to me that Colston fought a good fight.

God bless him.

Without him, we'd be deader than we are.

But at least we've got our Jews up to a point.

It's actually worth it.

They're all here.

And if you come to that meeting too, I don't remember we can't, we sometimes have to face up because of the flight, but not continually delaying.

Now we had fought for four weeks, and got the asking off of us, so the thing to do is to cut our losses and get out.

well they've got to look at them if we can't cut it off which we tried to do and i don't think we we don't i don't see that we see anything now yeah that will

Give us any, there's a step up, because I don't know how to say it.

If, for example, they had a clear-cut proof in the typewriter, which they didn't get because of the FBI letters, if they had a clear-cut, that might have done it, but they didn't get it.

We used to kid ourselves about it.

It's a confused deal.

That helps us better than having a half-clear-cut the other way.

And hence it helps.

I don't think it's so bad.

I don't think it's hurt us around the country up to this point in a substantial way.

Not in a substantial way, no.

It's eroded some, you know, some of the lustre of a lot of that country.

Sure, probably.

And that doesn't hurt you very much.

It's her government that's more or less on the wrong side.

Well, then we offer the...

This administration, I've had as long as...

There's nobody on the tape.

Nobody's taking a goddamn thing.

You know what I mean?

And that's something that ought to be gotten across.

Gary Johnson sold it by.

We haven't gotten a thing.

I mean, they look around.

As far as my personal wealth of work is concerned, it's the same as it was when I came in.

It's not just somebody else.

It's everybody else in the place.

I know that the only one they care about is me.

I mean, you know, Johnson, everybody knew he was on the tape.

And nobody did let him get away with it.

They let him get away with it.

I don't leave stories about it.

But on the others, for example, our cabin officers, none of them are steel, stolen.

And none of our staff people steal, you know what I mean?

We all know that.

So that's why this is such a lousy, bad rap.

And all over the stinky goddamn convention, which I never wanted there anyway.

I had an intuition about this son of a bitch, you know, we shouldn't have.

But you know, whenever you get fly and those people working on things, it always gets screwed up.

I can't blame them either.

They were the only ones with us.

Instead of letting me ask you about the Saturday you cancelled, I don't have to.

I think that's perfect.

But I don't think it's necessary that she said that.

And I think they, I wonder if it's necessary even if she goes down.

I really don't think she should, you know.

It's quite awkward for me to bring her in.

You see, then I have to say, well, she's got to stay and shake hands.

She wasn't going to shake hands, I guess she was just going to, I mean, well, you know, what the hell.

I wouldn't even take her.

Or could you, could you just have the, have Rose call it?

Yeah, Rose, the United Medicine Council.

See the format's changed, and you don't need to go to that.

See what I mean?

Yeah.

Call her right away, and support her on it.

Okay.

See, I can get out faster, and I'm not going to be able to, sorry for you, I'm just going to talk for ten minutes.

That's all we need.

Don't tell them what a great job they're doing.

You're glad their lives have come to stand.

We appreciate all their support.

But let's work on it, of course.