Nixon, Haldeman & Kissinger on ITT case and Richard Kleindienst

3:07So that can't be canceled.
3:17That is one that he is a friend of a friend, has to do with a senator.
3:31As far as all you should know is he's a guy that wants to, that is supporting you and has never met you.
3:39Simply wants to shake hands.
3:44Some other people are wrong.
3:45We will not be there or anything else.
3:47It's a very strange thing.
3:58Yeah.
3:59It's a shame because he's working the campaign.
4:02He isn't working.
4:03He's a very large contributor.
4:05And we don't want to set him up for any kind of a meeting here.
4:11He knows that?
4:12Yeah.
4:14Uh... Jackson obviously wants a job.
4:26Why the hell do you need one?
4:29I'll give you the best job you can get.
4:31He says he doesn't want another job, but when he's leaving, have a look.
4:37Sure.
4:43Yeah, and this was going to be, and this is part of the reason we did it, was going to be Joan Crawford.
5:11But she's sick or something now, so I ain't lying.
5:13They're just coming instead.
5:18Let's do it with the...
5:21I think it's just all... Oh, I suppose then she's... That just tied you to the cancer, right?
5:34That's the only reason?
5:36That's the only reason.
5:46Well, there's another thing we can do.
5:48They cannot hurry.
5:50There's a thing that we can add that I don't think you want to, and it's the type.
5:56The whole drug story you said, and he did, but I don't think we need to.
6:01I think, well, I don't know.
6:03Maybe I'm not.
6:04It's a little shaky right now.
6:12That's fine.
6:13Good.
6:24Going back to this ITT thing, I had a session with Clint East, saw McGregor last night somewhere, and said, I'm too gracious, so I've got you out of this Eastland thing tonight.
6:38And that got me very disturbed.
6:41He called me, and I don't know what happened, so I wanted to anyway, but I went to the coast this morning, reviewed the biddings, where we stand now, and the point of our...
6:54We now get into the other subsurface of McGregor is deeply distressed by that.
7:09He wants to deal with Michael.
7:11Well, he points out that, and Colson, of course, is totally in agreement with him, that, in the first place, Claiming doesn't know anything about what's happening on this case.
7:21He has, as he said, stayed out of it.
7:23The lawyer is saying he is leisure, not able, and claims to be no leisure existed.
7:31And that would have been one of the, if they had followed their, which is just one really example, if y'all like, we can call that a shot.
7:41We're not, that's what we're talking about.
7:43That we're talking about only the one thing on the daily with Eastman.
7:49Okay, but Eastman is calling McGregor on a continuing basis asking about the Republican counts.
7:55Do we have the times?
7:56Is Vaughn going to be back?
7:58He called yesterday afternoon to reconfirm his commitment to vote with us on closing hearings next Thursday.
8:06And I can call a vote.
8:09No problem.
8:10And Clark says, I don't know how I'd turn off that kind of contact with Eastland.
8:17He said the other thing that you're not being told the full story on is that Eastland's real plan here is to go for an acting attorney general, not to go for a confirmation.
8:28Eastland asked McGregor yesterday or the day before for assurance on behalf of the president that the president would keep calling Eastland on as acting attorney general if they were not able to get to a floor vote.
8:45Park makes the point that if we turn the Eastland contact over to Kleindienst, you've got a battle between these two.
8:54Martin said to Eastland, Kleindienst's presence made the pitch about the serious philosophical differences between McGregor and Kleindienst, that you need not be concerned about that when McGregor's motives in this are perfectly clear.
9:08Martin said to Colson,
9:12in other people's presence that they should not bring McGregor in on this because obviously he wants to sink Plunkett because he wants the job.
9:18So you see this factor is in there on their side.
9:25McGregor's concern on our side is that in trying to get the confirmation, which is what he's after,
9:34Mitchell, Kleindienst, and Martin have pretty conclusively proven in their track record that they aren't as smart as Eastland.
9:40They have misjudged every
9:43that the Eastlands told them so far.
9:45Well, you had the impression that we were leaking the confirmation matter to Comp Line Eastman.
9:49No, sir.
9:50I told them that that was the only thing that the Comp Line Eastman was a contact with Eastman, because he drank something they tossed with him, and we needed commitment from him.
9:57But we're working every other damn thing the way we want to.
10:00Well, but part of the reason they want to take the Comp Line is to talk to Eastman.
10:04They don't object to Kleynes talking to Eastland, they object to being closed off from contact with Eastland.
10:10On the basis, well, that's what we pretty much agreed to yesterday, and that's exactly what Kleynes agreed to, and told, remember Kleynes flatly said, you've got to keep Mark McGregor away from Eastland.
10:24That goes back, you see, there is a McGregor-Eastland problem also, because in the campaign against Humphrey,
10:30McGregor argued we need to change it in the Senate so that we won't have all those Southerners dominating the committees.
10:37And Eastland apparently has that in his paper ad.
10:41But McGregor doesn't like it.
10:46But McGregor's gotten around that with him on other things.
10:49And thinks he has a good relationship.
10:54The other thing is that
11:00Klein each now said, you can't talk to Eastland after 5 o'clock.
11:03That was a direct reference to a meeting Marty and McGregor had with Eastland at 6 o'clock the day before.
11:10And that's when, among other things, Eastland got back to the point of, the way we've got to set this up is to keep Klein in his acting attorney general.
11:19And Klein each seemed that he weren't going to buy that.
11:22He now knows that he won't buy that.
11:25He knows it, but Eastland doesn't.
11:30was trying to talk to her and say, oh, I see a point there that, well, this is all, a lot of this is all, this, you know, some of it is the usual thing that goes on in stats.
11:42But the thing to do is to use everybody.
11:44Everybody you can.
11:45I certainly think that it turns into a relationship with Eastland.
11:49In my opinion, Eastland's a good man to talk to.
11:52was on the Justice Court.
12:02Let us see what he can do.
12:04Let us see if he can get a commitment.
12:07But when we talk to Mike, he's just fine when he talks about the commitment.
12:12The one thing that I think is important is that we've got to declare that Greer has got to continue to talk to all the Republicans, you know, on his count, and we'll do so.
12:24or you got another thing there's no reason why economy spot shouldn't get the fan to work on the urban problem maybe there's a way to get an urban that we don't know about do you agree i agree that maybe there is part of it part incidentally the other side of all this that comes out of the
12:53public stuff to a certain degree is that they're they aren't going to get a clean cut vote on stopping the hearings which is the i think maybe the principal problem what they're going to get is a compromise thing of hearing x number of moral witnesses of course worse setting up a subcommittee with teddy kennedy to continue the
13:18that has turned to continue the, is that what the Republicans are going to vote for?
13:22They may.
13:23That may be what all this Scott stuff is coming up with.
13:28But that's what Teddy is voting for.
13:31And McGregor and Colson are both convinced that claiming to you that we only lose three votes on the committee is wrong and way off.
13:45Well, I have doubts about that too.
13:48But also McGregor and Coulson could be off on the other side too.
14:03Sure.
14:04But they're, as McGregor always has done, and I think it's the right way to do it, is they count doubtfuls as negatives.
14:11They only go, they try to go solid on grounds.
14:15So that no one in God said, oh, I think that's probably right.
14:20I think that's probably all right.
14:45This gets back to the department versus White House, Mitchell versus White House, and all that kind of stuff.
14:53And you'll have the same problem.
14:55We talked earlier about who's going to be the cops in San Diego.
14:59But there I know we're not going to be the cops in San Diego.
15:03I'm going to keep that one step away from us, even though we'll be money.
15:06I just want one step away from the White House.
15:10Do you agree with that?
15:11Yeah, I think so.
15:11I mean, I just think it's a...
15:25This one, I must confess, I have no confidence in finding these things, much less in Martin, in terms of what they can do, what they know, how to work.
15:38And they're single-minded.
15:40What they want is to help.
15:41It's a little different than what you want.
15:47Although, ultimately, the best for everybody would be for Kleindienst to be confirmed.
15:52Yeah.
15:53Well, at least we've made this much progress.
15:58In our own thinking, we know that we cannot have Kleindienst back in the Attorney General or the Continental Credit Convention.
16:09Correct.
16:11I just wonder, I guess it's counterproductive, whether Kleindienst ought to make that very easy.
16:21Do you mean so that we can force her to move forward?
16:25Or try to?
16:25Clint Eastwood would have to say the president won't do it.
16:31Clint Eastwood said Eastland won't do it.
16:32I clearly understood that there is not a question here of Mike continuing his acting attorney general for anything other than another month or so in time, another time.
16:41In other words, sir, it's all the name of an unpersonal racist in Eastland.
16:51The other thing that disturbs McGregor is that last week he came to McGregor and said, you've got to get in this thing and pull it together.
17:06We don't have the resources over here to work with these people.
17:12Well, I hope you didn't overstate it to Client Hiker in that argument.
17:17We didn't.
17:18Client Hiker only said McGregor should get out of the Eastman drill.
17:23He didn't talk about anybody else.
17:25That's right.
17:26He just had a relation with Eastman.
17:27That's right.
17:28McGregor's point is you can't run this thing on two tracks.
17:32You can't have...
17:36Marty, what you're talking about is Marty.
17:38It's Marty who we'll be working with, not Kleindienst.
17:40As Kleindienst pointed out, Marty is my representative.
17:43He speaks for me.
17:46Marty doesn't track with anybody, and all our people have said that all along.
17:50He wouldn't track with Mitchell.
18:00Probably you can't, but there's one thing I do know that I'm right on, on Eastland.
18:07Eastland is tricky, untrustworthy, and does things from highly personal motives.
18:14Now,
18:16Eastland has never done anything, how we talk about the votes and all the rest, he has never done anything with potential or fine deeds that is strictly or untrustworthy.
18:25Yeah, on the judges and so forth, he kept his word on that.
18:28He worked all the way through it.
18:30I don't think in Clark's case that he does that, that he would have, that he's just going to take it from Clark Pencil, because he considers it to be an art of the liberal.
18:40That's what I feel is the problem.
18:44That's right.
18:44Eastman hasn't been tricky, but they have relied on Eastman, and Eastman hasn't been able to deliver.
18:51Well, and isn't that contrary to thinking that we're relying on Eastman at all?
18:55I'm just trying to get Eastman's commitment that he himself will bring the thing up to a vote on Thursday and come and vote with us.
19:04And then, well, we've got that.
19:06Well, Clark says that we have that.
19:08Yeah.
19:09And vote with us.
19:10Well, then, why do they think Eastman are quite a subcommitment?
19:13Is that a thing that they can vote?
19:15Because they may not get it.
19:16See, what Clark disagrees with me is how the vote will go.
19:49That's in my hand, because it didn't get put easily in my column.
19:55And Republican bygone, it didn't get...
19:59I mean, I haven't figured through it, but I think it seems to me it got in the organ.
20:02Except for the pressures of the publication.
20:10Not necessarily a subcommittee, but a few more witnesses are a little bit here, a little bit there.
20:28Mikey's working on it.
20:31Everybody else is working on it.
20:32Scott, et al.
20:34What's your recommendation?
21:03Okay.
21:05Well, certainly my view is that they should use all the players.
21:09Sure.
21:09I don't believe, in other words, when I could set it up between you and Kleinke, I would set it up with you and Marty.
21:16I said, Kleinke used to talk to you.
21:18You're not going to talk to Marty at all.
21:20And Kleinke used to get his own counsel.
21:22Didn't it seem to you that Conley did rather well?
21:27Right.
21:30All of that's
21:32Because he did lose.
21:34He was a big story.
21:36You're going to help him for election, I assume.
21:51Contributions, he must even contribute.
24:50What are you going to do about that?
24:53Do our people have any thoughts still about planning?
24:56They don't want to write a letter now or anything.
24:59They want to talk to her.
25:03Yes, sir.
25:04If that makes any difference, sir.
25:16they don't want to go beyond that they want to go where go beyond an off-the-record conversation mrs elsa never heard you you know
25:44It was an interesting party.
25:46Afterwards, I thought to myself, we're going to have to do that every time.
25:50Oh, yeah, but you really, you did it with so much fire and so much deception.
25:56And they never heard it before.
26:00Oh, she was absolutely flabbergasted.
26:04And I said, well, I hear that every day.
26:05I called on him, we had a little talk, and I called on him.
26:10Yeah, but you did 95% of it on China.
26:14I really... No.
26:15It wasn't...
26:16I mean, I picked it up from you.
26:19Here's all of it.
26:25And it was really done with great force and also how you compared them to other leaders.
26:35Too bad we can't do any of those.
26:38i thought that was you know one thing about joe i hadn't realized he's becoming very very old what is this raw now that's what i'm concerned about
27:04I don't know what that's about at all.
27:07Well, got it.
27:08That's it.
27:35You may recall, I said it for some time, with the major thing you have to have here, if you have this straight up and down partisan vote, there's no problem.
27:45I mean, it's, it's ridiculous.
27:47If you count on every Republican running off, see, they gotta call, uh, call this thing partisan.
27:56It was interesting that, uh, that, uh,
28:03They didn't comment on a very good point.
28:06Yeah.
28:08Sure did.
28:14And in exactly the way we want.
28:16They put the squeeze on it.
28:19I've worked out the right kind of people.
28:21I worked out with Connolly going down to Texas with him to talk in Houston.
28:27We asked him.
28:27I asked him about that.
28:29Good.
28:29Well, how about Dallas?
28:31He thinks Dallas, too, and he thinks that it's better to be an actress in Dallas than tap driver.
28:39Oh, yes.
28:39There's no question about that.
28:41Oh, yes.
28:42I know.
28:43That's correct.
28:43Oh, yes.
28:44I know you did it.
28:45I'm just supporting what you're saying.
28:47The point is that...
28:52He says he can get the key people that Tack wants, he can put into his crew.
28:57Exactly.
28:59And so the way we'll do is do lunch in one town and dinner in the other.
29:04That's great.
29:06And so... And he'll go down with me.
29:11What did you, you know, Joe was telling Bob Alsop was weak with Pat.
29:19That's where I'm at.
29:23Because he's poor.
29:24He polls for left-wing liberal organizations like he polls for anyone.
29:32And always told them what they want.
29:34He does a phone call, he's the guy that does all the phone calls with Evans and Novak, where they both say to, well, they go around in these stories, and they finish, and Dave Grover works with them some, too, where they talk to 17 people in the state, and then they say that, you know, the results are such and such.
29:52Yes.
29:55McGregor thinks that Laird is probably behind the Senate's cancellation, then.
30:01I think so, too.
30:03Sanders told me last night.
30:06Yeah, but McGregor thinks Laird probably put him up for that.
30:09Well, he may have.
30:10No one will.
30:11He said, I don't know anything about it.
30:15I said, well, he said, look, he said, you know, I just greatly appreciated this long talk we've had tonight and the chance to hear reviews and all so forth.
30:24And he said, I don't think there's any real need unless you want me to come down today.
30:28That's what he said.
30:30The one thing that I'm curious.
30:31I see one that Larry's gotten him to get out of it because he doesn't want to be put on the spot in front of the presidential powers.
30:41question and the only thing I want to get that that that oh
30:48Because Senator doesn't want to be put on the spot.
30:50On the other hand, I can't have Senators come because they want to come, right?
30:54But if you're self-departing, if you've got to make them come, then he's setting up a red party.
30:58We better watch what's happening here because Senators point that he isn't prepared to talk to you unless you're here somewhere.
31:05That's a lot of bullshit because he's prepared to give a long speech on the Senate floor.
31:12No, he can't make them come.
31:14He didn't talk about that feature at all.
31:17I think what is going on, I wasn't even focusing on the war powers.
31:21I think that Laird is pulling a deal with Senate to cut troops in Europe.
31:27And I don't think we need that prior to the summit.
31:33So what I would...
31:38I wanted to ask you a question.
31:39What I was going to say is if you go down and say, look, Senator, you're not going to, we're not going to see, no, you're not going to have the meeting.
31:47There's one thing the President could mention in that group last night.
31:52And that is that before we go to the summit, there must be nothing which undercuts the president's bargaining power in the social sector.
32:00Nothing.
32:01And, for example, there can be nothing on war crimes.
32:04And after the debate all we want, there must be nothing on troops.
32:09And that's what I want to be trying to do with this.
32:12I'll stop listening.
32:14and others, but he must know that this is terribly important to this Justice Summit.
32:20And then getting a little doubly good, you know, there's some things that Senator and Secretary Laird and others don't even know about, and Secretary of State doesn't know about, that the President is working on directly with Brezhnev.
32:32Let me call him first and...
32:54Well, you understand that you think it'll... Oh, okay.
33:00Oh, yes.
33:01Oh, yes.
33:03Good.
33:03Fine.
33:03That would be good.
33:04I'd like for him to drop down and see you.
33:07He'll be calling.
33:08I appreciate your giving him a few minutes.
33:10That would be great.
33:12So that he doesn't think you're... No, that would be more than enough for life.
33:17Senator Sanders, please.
33:19I was hoping you wouldn't notice.
33:22I was hoping you wouldn't notice.
33:25He thought he was speaking out and not getting to it.
33:28I thought he was going for an hour.
33:50Let's say we get a very moving little closer, right?
33:57Sometimes I'll just slowly go, there it goes, right?
34:02Yeah, I read it.
34:04It was very, it wasn't really, but it was the way it was done.
34:10Yeah.
34:10It's a very, and also, also the fact that we needed two rooms.
34:16We received a room when we served George Washington.
34:19My father was my father's minister.
34:20He said, save your family.
34:21We saved this country.
34:23We can't save it.
34:24It's a father's country, but certainly everyone who knows the history of your country knows that he is the savior of your country.
34:31I know that it's your helicopter pilot versus the airfield pilot like the Oregon versus Indiana.
34:39We are putting out these tows.
34:41They're about to thoroughly ignore it.
34:43I know.
34:43I mean, it's a different question.
34:45Well, because they're good.
34:46Yeah.
34:48Well, they're not that good.
34:51But that's what it is.
34:52No, Mr. President, I think that the level of the tows...
34:56They're all about a damn tow, but you're not...
34:59It's...
35:00They are...
35:01almost without exception, very subtle, and the standard of them is so high that if somebody put them together and looked at them, but the press is not looking for ways to make it look as good as... Let me ask you a couple things, Henry.
35:23When will you get to Texas?
35:25I want you to get this before the time thing cools off.
35:27I hope you can go within the next week or so.
35:30You're conserving my wealth.
35:31Did Billy Graham come?
35:32Oh, yes.
35:33He called me.
35:34Did he call you?
35:35No.
35:36He just called me.
35:38It's not self-serving, but I just called you.
35:40He said, he said, you will not be able to tell the impact of that.
35:46It's so enormous.
35:47He said, Howard Lentzel, I don't know who he is, Christianity Today.
35:52He said it was turned around completely.
35:57He was turned around completely.
35:59He called him afterwards and said he's got an entirely new perspective.
36:04And as a result of this, he said it wasn't just good, it was overwhelming.
36:08The greatest mistake he made about this damn train, well, it wasn't crazy.
36:17A big mistake was he took the cannon along.
36:20Because he took the cannon along, he wasn't going to be sold.
36:22And he pisses on it since he comes back, you know.
36:24He has no, no, no, but...
36:28in his own mind, among our staff people, instead of out of something.
36:32Now, who the hell is out of something?
36:35Well, that's an excalibur.
36:36Like I always say, excalibur.
36:37And in the right way.
36:39You know what made him a Christian?
36:41Pardon me, what made him a Jew?
36:44But what made him a Christian or a Jew or whatever he is, was when he saw that, and that fight with Rogers.
36:53You know, you remember that?
36:54Yeah.
36:55He couldn't believe it, could he?
36:57No, no, no.
36:59When did he run?
36:59When did he reach that?
37:01The next morning.
37:02I just went to him on Sunday morning and started pissing on the communique.
37:08While we were in China, while the thing was still.
37:12And then Scali answered the phone to me.
37:15And put it on.
37:16Scali is smart enough to reach us.
37:18And that's exactly what he had thought, what he had thought and said during that exam.
37:27Not one of them.
37:30Not one of them.
37:33But not one of them.
37:35In spite of the... Did you realize all that crap about what you call it?
37:41There's not no deal fixed by the most right wing people.
37:48Good morning, John.
37:49How are you?
37:50How are you?
37:50Good to talk to you.
37:52Well, listen, that was fun to have you there, and I just wish we could have heard you talk more at all.
37:57Henry and I sort of, and Ms. Nix and John and I sort of took it over with that.
38:02But we listened to you on the other floor.
38:05I just, sorry, sorry, Mrs. Nix wasn't there.
38:08She's one of my favorites.
38:10I have one thing I'd like to say.
38:13Joe Ossoff there and others, I didn't want to say in their hearing that it's quite confidential.
38:20It has to do with the running of the summit.
38:23And I would like that Henry, if it's all right with you, he'll give you a call sometime.
38:28If you could get him just a few minutes and he'll tell you that it's a...
38:34what what happens in the senate after the summit is the that's okay but before the summit there is a great necessity for a reason that he will tell you for us to play a very strong game and i think you ought to know that and then you're you're welcome to have the information
38:49And then you can use it your own way.
38:52You know, it's like, you know, there's some things that we just can't tell everybody.
38:57And so he'll come down and he'll call you, John.
39:01Will you be here all day or are you going to go now?
39:03All right.
39:06Oh, no.
39:07He'll call you tomorrow.
39:07He'll call you this morning around 11 o'clock.
39:10Okay.
39:10Fine.
39:11Fine.
39:13Fine.
39:14Right.
39:14Well, he'll just tell you that we will appreciate your help on that line.
39:25Well, I guess I assume that would you, you know, would you prefer not to today?
39:32Or...
39:40fine why don't we just make it why don't we just make the two of us each other and set it up when you want at a later time and not have any captain officer because i have some things that we don't want to get around i'll be glad to do that whenever you're ready oh yeah
40:03I think he's all right.
40:05He said, I'd like to talk to you alone, just the two of us.
40:08He says, possibly with Henry there.
40:16It's the other way around.
40:20This fellow says, look, he says, I just want to be home.
40:27He says, I just want to be home.
40:29And you see, he's got to know.
40:31Now, Laird is so tricky that Laird, you see there again, Clark had got the right information because he trusts Laird.
40:39You see, Laird's wrong on this one.
40:43Larry's wrong.
40:43I think, I think he's wrong.
40:46I don't think Laird, I don't think Spanish trust Laird.
40:49That's my, I don't think Clark trusts Laird either.
40:52I think Spanish is President-oriented.
40:54That's right.
40:55Not Captain.
40:56No, the way I would handle it, Henry, is that I would go down and I would say, look, Senator Fershaw, salt.
41:04Fighting like a tiger against the unilateralist armies.
41:10Second,
41:12The President is greatly impressed by your view that the Defense Department, and his way, he did very hard work last night, that the Defense Department is extremely wasteful in many areas.
41:30He said he's got a lot of contracts.
41:32That's what I think is going to happen.
41:34He's going to start some investigation on some of the overruns and all that sort of thing.
41:40He said, and his view, of course, is that we ought to put the money in hardware type of thing, which will impress the Russians and impress the Chinese, rather than a hell of a lot of personnel that costs us money.
41:53This is Spence talking.
41:54So you can tell him that we're impressed with that.
41:56The third thing is that our views with the Russians are that we're in this position that
42:05That we must not give an inch with regard to Europe.
42:10We can't give an inch that we can't indicate that we're going to cut our defense expenditures in any way prior to the summit.
42:18Because I'm going to drive as hard a bargain as I can after the summit.
42:24Then, we may be able to take a look at some things, and we'll keep in a close touch with the whole thing.
42:30That's not what you would say, exactly.
42:32And you wouldn't say, now you wouldn't say, no, Senator, nothing.
42:36What is not relevant, even for the Secretary of State or the Secretary of Defense, is the President's impression of an impersonal communication with my letter.
42:47And you can't say that this is not the President's narrative.
42:50It's, it's, it's known expressions.
42:52You know what I mean?
42:53You're not going to see him a little later on, you know.
42:55It's true.
42:56That is true.
42:57And your conversation with Cabrinha, deliberately, on his part, he has one most common mistake.
43:02Oh, I know.
43:03All right.
43:04Then, and it'll give you the stroke, so that when you can call him, Senator, he gets the word of heart and say, look here, we just can't handle this.
43:13Correct.
43:14I think that's exactly right.
43:43He has the same decency and orientation.
43:47And when he knows what you want, he fights for it.
45:00I liked it.
45:01They were a little suspicious about the gynecology, but they shared the standing ovation at the end.
45:07Oh yeah, we had to shut them off because they all wanted to get up and say they were now for us.
45:12Well, that's their thing, you know, they come to the cross.
45:16They wanted to be a witness or testimony, whatever they called it, one after the other.
45:21Billy Graham just said it's now 1130, I think already.
45:24But it was...
45:30Very good.
45:31Now you've done the writing.
45:32That's very good.
45:34But I'll go to Dallas and use my code, John, to find you.
45:37I'll leave that in Chicago with you.
45:39That's the other place I'm going.
45:40That's Chicago.
45:41No, but he gives me the list.
45:43Now, who lives in Dallas?
45:47The West Coast, I thought I'd say... Yeah, but that's soon enough.
45:52That's after Russia.
45:54But here, this time, I wanted to get it different.
45:57I wanted to get it more into the media area, the media there, and do some television on the West Coast.
46:04Regional television in Los Angeles has more impact than one television national show.
46:11George Button has gone into a new format now where he has a half hour of his newscasts into a different kind of thing that might be working for him.
46:19George Button.
46:20Oh, he's got a huge audience.
46:21Huge audience.
46:23Well, it comes to another thing.
46:25I think, uh, I want Henry to do a San Francisco project.
46:29Yeah.
46:29He's never done a San Francisco project.
46:31What I would get there is get the P.U.
46:33called.
46:34Uh, well, I'll pick a man.
46:37Uh, you know, he's got, uh, well, what we're going to use is a big tool, potentially, to have a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a,
46:51Well, you know, Cooley is outside, and I've had the two, and I've had the two, and it's got the shape.
46:57Cooley and Packard could be the, could be the joint posts.
47:01Cooley and Packard, Cooley and Packard, Cooley and Packard, Cooley and Packard, Cooley and Packard, Cooley and Packard,
47:14But this is in Syracuse.
47:15It's a very elite, small club.
47:17It's an old house.
47:18Near the Markovkin.
47:20Well, you can sit with 30 people, and that gives the collar of the New San Francisco, you know.
47:28They're 10 grand decent, but liberal.
47:32They'll buy it, I should say.
47:36Should I take a special trip out there, or should I do it when we're out there anyway?
47:41Well, to tell you the truth, I think a special trip would be very useful.
47:45If you went to Texas and could go on, when you're halfway across anyway, and then could go on to do San Francisco, I think it would be good.
47:52We need to touch on San Francisco.
47:54We really do.
47:56And July is a long time.
47:57Maybe you ought to do it on a swim basis, anyway.
48:01You do Texas, then out to San Francisco, then to Chicago, and then way back.
48:05You could do it all in four days.
48:07The Western Pacific.
48:08Well, they're not going to pick it up then.
48:10Okay.
48:10I've got the trip to Japan that screws everything up.
48:16What do you mean, when you're going from Ottawa to Japan?
48:38I don't want those San Francisco bitches up there to say they're downgrading them.
48:44Well, can I say, if that's the case, a very good thing to do would be to stop in San Francisco and overnight there on the way back, you know, from Japan.
49:01How would that be, Bob?
49:03I'll look at the, I'll look at the schedule.
49:07But I'd like to get San Francisco.
49:09Los Angeles should be hit afterwards.
49:13I'd like to get an Orange County crowd.
49:15Los Angeles, that's... Really, he's done Los Angeles.
49:18About the Orange County crowd.
49:20Well, he's done key ones, and they were at the Los Angeles thing.
49:25Wow.
49:26Okay.
49:26Thank you.
49:29Mr. Chandler said, once said, that anytime I want to, she wants to get together.
49:51The Pasadena in Glendale Group, I don't know who that is.
49:55Strong.
49:55Strong.
49:56And she said, that's very important for you.
50:01If I could meet with him, brother.
50:03She made it self-serving, I think.
50:07All right.
50:08We want her.
50:09We want her.
50:13I think I got through it pretty well.
50:15That's very funny.
50:16You know, I'm going to say, Bob, an interesting thing.
50:23I don't know whether it's worth doing, Henry, but go against my principles, but did Henry tell you about my...
50:41on how I almost puked after the meeting with that arms control committee that you set up.
50:49Well, look, I have never seen Pete be so soft, so completely out of touch.
50:59Well, I asked him when he thought he could just shake his head after this.
51:03And, you know, Floyd is a senile.
51:06Norstedt is a... Norstedt is the most repulsive guy.
51:10No, nothing.
51:11And, of course, Bill Scranton, and so on and so forth.
51:16This very guy, Mark M.I.D., the Reverend, or something, said, well, when you go over there, as we were, just as I raised you, and I talked to him about the problems and all the other things and so forth, they came down and did nothing on the soft side of everything.
51:30Oh, yeah.
51:30Okay, I see.
51:31And then they came.
51:32He said, well, couldn't you put your name to it?
51:34You're there.
51:35You could read it.
51:37I said, well, you know, we're checking into it.
51:39Verification is kind of the problem.
51:42Well, the ruina is a menace.
51:44And he's on that commission.
51:45Yeah.
51:46Well, that whole thing, it's supposed to watch the arms control agency.
51:51Instead, it's to the left of the arms control agency.
51:54Right.
51:55Here's what I had in mind.
52:01I wonder sometimes if I can go to...
52:09I'm thinking of the New York dispatch, recognizing the problems, recognizing when they get down to it, they'll disagree on the economy and a lot of other things, but deep down they will have to fear assuming that it's Teddy Kennedy.
52:29Or us.
52:32They're going to have to give to the country.
52:35I wonder if I should perhaps go into the Council on Foreign Relations.
52:41I think you should.
52:42And get just about what I need these people.
52:45I could be free, you know what I mean, and not pay too much.
52:49I think you should.
52:51Because the Bachelors are, as you know, I know they're against us when I say they, for the most part.
52:59But the point is that I really have not, I'm not being, that is totally off the record means.
53:05Yes.
53:08They have enforced it pretty well.
53:11I've agreed to, they have a big meeting in June.
53:16Yeah, that's their 100th anniversary, but that's public.
53:20It's a public speech, I didn't have a hold on it, I don't want to make that a council of foreign relations.
53:25What I'm speaking of is something entirely, I'm speaking of a way that it gets across to the power group, not because they like it, but they kind of understand that I have a position.
53:34Mr. President, they'll arrange a dinner for you literally any time, and they'll get the 200 or 100 or whatever number you give them.
53:44Key council members say it.
53:45The only thing wrong with the 5 o'clock thing, Mr. President, is...
53:59When the president meets with the council, it should be a somewhat more solemn occasion than the one they have where businessmen on the way home stop in.
54:11I mean, they owe you a special occasion.
54:16I won't consider it if they're going to say, well, we've got so many pressures from the news magazines.
54:24Oh, no, that does.
54:24No, no, no.
54:25The television that we've got to have is not going to do that.
54:28No, no, they don't ever.
54:29I think what you just do...
54:32You cannot impress them by reading a prepared speech.
54:35They've heard all of that.
54:37The thing that would make a tremendous impression, I know the council well, I worked there for a year, and I know all these people.
54:44If you went in there and spoke with that force and conviction and simplicity you did yesterday, so that they, because they all got the image of you of the 50s.
54:57I mean, whenever I tell one of this group what you're like, it's an absolutely astonishing, you can't hear enough of it.
55:06It sounds incredible to them.
55:09As a matter of fact, I'd like to do this with a group of congressmen and senators, but I can't.
55:14I mean, I can't tell them, you know, the...
55:15But if you did this... Did I give off an impression of the kind of things that I talked about so that I don't even remember from the first time?
55:23Well, first of all, what was very impressive, in addition to the substance,
55:27was the simplicity and conviction with which you presented it.
55:30And that it was just pouring out, first, the analogies of the key people.
55:40And all world leaders are in that.
55:42Yes, the analogies of the key people in relation to other world leaders.
55:46It was very acute, some of each other.
55:51Second, the...
55:54analysis of the world situation which we find ourselves, and why the United States has to act as it does, what we are trying to do, what the real meaning of the China initiative is, what the real purpose of the summit is.
56:08Joanne, who's a sophisticated guy, came to me when we, after we were downstairs, she said, God, Russian summit, I never thought of it as a serious enterprise.
56:22And, you know, even outside, now he begins to see it.
56:28And that's certainly the vision of America, what we need as a country in order to be able to do all these things.
56:34When you said, these people didn't talk to me because they liked me, they didn't talk to me because I impressed them, et cetera.
56:41They talk to me because of what we represent, and if we don't represent a dynamic economy and a purposeful country, and some theme like this, and if you present it with the vision that you did it yesterday, and sometimes you present it in an exceptionally modest way, but if you present it with that vision, first of all, it will turn around so many opinions about you as a person,
57:08And these people at the council do have, they probably don't affect any vote, both of them do, they don't affect any vote.
57:15But they help with the mood, and I'm sure that they'd arrange a dinner any time you wanted.
57:25And now the attack that he's, that the establishment is starting is,
57:32We are playing a pure balance of power game.
57:35George Ball and all that.
57:36George Ball, now they're having a series of lectures at the council.
57:40The balance of power is one of the crappiest I can see.
57:47What do they think?
57:48What in the name of God did they think their NATO was?
57:51What balance of power?
57:55Well, I hit it with that group yesterday.
57:57I said, I know you gentlemen.
58:01before they were a balanced power.
58:03But we had hegemony and we threw it away.
58:06Now we have to survive in a world where we are no longer all powerful and the only possible policy is to balance the various power factors.
58:20What, what, what is the argument?
58:21The balls and the rest of them get everybody everything?
58:24The argument is... What do they find?
58:26Alliances?
58:27Yeah, they think this means giving up alliances, which shows the total misunderstanding.
58:33The balance of power is in no sense inconsistent with alliances.
58:37In fact, the way you get power in a balance of power situation, it's through alliances.
58:43The British played balance of power and had plenty of alliances.
58:48They say it makes our allies uncertain.
58:51They want to go back to the situation of the 50s where we could run everything, where we could organize the world.
58:58But that period is past.
59:01But for that reason, it's important.
59:04It would be useful to that group if you come up there and you show up any possible other leaders.
59:11I mean, that was so impressive yesterday evening.
59:14I mean, obviously,
59:16You couldn't have rehearsed this.
59:21This came welling out.
59:23Everyone had the sense you could have talked another two hours if you had wanted to.
59:31And I didn't talk to Hopart Lewis in detail, but he too, he was on our side.
59:37But I think they were all not just impressed, but moved.
59:44I consider it very serious.
59:47It's a good groove.
59:48If you do it in the right setting and with force.
59:59I'm not sure I've asked him any questions simply because... You have to do it in the right... Yeah.
1:00:06Something to be said about it.
1:00:24Oh, no, you can handle the questions easily enough.
1:00:26But why not?
1:00:28I just wondered whether it's compatible with the authors for the president, you know.
1:00:38No, I do it other times.
1:00:40You do it other times.
1:00:44You may get some smart-ass answers.
1:00:45Yeah, there is a whole lot of them.
1:00:57What time do you see the rain today?
1:01:001 o'clock.
1:01:021.15.
1:01:02Well, try to cut me if you can.
1:01:05Oh, yeah, I would love to.
1:01:08Do your best.
1:01:09When will you see the Chinese?
1:01:13Did Bob have a chance to tell you?
1:01:16I had just started on this trip when the Chinese notified.
1:01:24I have an arrangement with Watson.
1:01:26that whenever he gets notified, he tells me, and then I tell him to put it in the chat.
1:01:30Now, Watson, unfortunately, was on vacation.
1:01:33So they notified us in Paris.
1:01:50That April 16th is today, and that son of a bitch there that was on vacation called Mansfield and Scott directly.
1:01:57Didn't even know if I stayed.
1:02:01And... Can we get a postcard?
1:02:06Now it's going to be tougher.
1:02:07I'll try, but it's going to be tougher.
1:02:11You know, if this guy had notified me first, we could have sat on it.
1:02:20God damn it.
1:02:22What in the hell is the matter with Watson being so stupid not to tell us opposite is his subsidiary that he's supposed to do this?
1:02:30What in the hell is the matter with the fool?
1:02:32It's a silly fool.
1:02:33He knew that he was supposed to inform us in advance of these things.
1:02:39But Watson was a marrakech.
1:02:41That's nice, but why didn't he tell his support?
1:02:43Because it's too dangerous if he tells his support and everything.
1:02:47Yeah, because they have put out an order from, say, that they are not permitted to use back channels.
1:02:59They must do it all through the secondary.
1:03:02And we are circumventing it with our own ambassadors.
1:03:08I see.
1:03:12It looks like they are attacking now.
1:03:13They have not.
1:03:16That was the gunner?
1:03:18Yeah.
1:03:18I dried up the DMZ and some of the pictures again.
1:03:22I made them check whether the, of course, the weather is too bad for us at all.
1:03:31We must have the world's worst air force.
1:03:35What's the situation there?
1:03:37Is this an attack on broad front?
1:03:41It looks that way.
1:03:45They have attacked eight fire support bases, which is usually the way these things are.
1:03:51And they're attacking within range of the Sands and North Florida.
1:03:59It says they're doing fairly well.
1:04:02You know, the first six hours of an attack, you have to look into how they are doing.
1:04:08That's what they say.
1:04:10They say they're reacting well.
1:04:12I think if this is a real attack, we should hit the sands and what we are not protecting.
1:04:21And we told them we were going to do it.
1:04:26Well, I don't see why we don't do it right now.
1:04:28It's wedding.
1:04:30Well, let's wait until the end of the day to see whether it's a real attack or just a play.
1:04:34And also knock off the...
1:04:36I wouldn't have Porter go second back in comparison.
1:04:40No.
1:04:40If there's an attack, we can't do that.
1:04:42That's right.
1:04:42Remember you told them that.
1:04:44No.
1:04:45And then I won't go to the April 25th meeting either.
1:04:49We can delay it another time.
1:04:50Play it very tough.
1:04:53We can delay it.
1:04:54So we're stuck with Scott going on April 16th then?
1:04:57I'm afraid so.
1:04:58I'm going to see whether...
1:05:01I'll talk to the Chinese ambassador in New York today to see whether...
1:05:05Wonderful.
1:05:07...who I'll send a message to.
1:05:09I'm afraid that... that we are in... Vietnam, about two weeks before...
1:05:21But I will really lay it into them about Vietnam.
1:05:25Yep.
1:05:26groups are getting together.
1:05:28You want to say?
1:05:29Yeah.
1:05:30They're getting together with Shearhook.
1:05:32Maybe they've got a Shearhook out of them.
1:05:35That doesn't bother me as much.
1:05:36I mean, what he does with Shearhook, I mean, your buddy knows he's with Shearhook.
1:05:40But if they play around with him, and we announce he comes back with some gun and has peace things,
1:06:01Well, now, let me ask, what the hell is the situation here?
1:06:05Well, I, Mr. President, I think it is infinitely better for us that the attack is coming down.
1:06:14My nightmare was that they do it in September and October.
1:06:19If, we'll either win or lose.
1:06:22And I don't think we'll lose, because if I watch them in Laos, for example,
1:06:28There's no reason why they haven't been able to take Long Chiang yet, except the fact that they're a lot weaker than they used to be.
1:06:39And they'll use up their supplies this way, and we know when this is over, there's going to be anything the rest of the year.
1:06:48I think if this attack continues 24 hours, then we should hit them by Sunday or Monday.
1:06:54I think a 48-hour attack.
1:06:5548-hour attack, right.
1:07:14And don't scatter it around in ways that are going to affect this thing.
1:07:20If I'm just north of the DMV, is that where it is?
1:07:23Yes.
1:07:23Like the B3 strike there, is that what you said?
1:07:26Yes, sir.
1:07:27And that would get rid of the, we could take out the sands there, plus the supplies, and then they can go in with gunships against us again.
1:07:36Is that right?
1:07:40Yes.
1:07:40Well, that's it.
1:07:43Oh, Stennis, and I think I think.
1:07:46I'm also going to lay it into the reading paper.
1:07:48Fred has wrote you a letter this week which is very, very conciliatory.
1:07:53He says he's got it.
1:07:54The salt will be settled.
1:07:58Are you to tell the brain that you go, first of all, do your best to cut the deal and pull it?
1:08:05But the second thing, and you can point out that he can be not concerned about what I say and pull it.
1:08:12He can be very sure that there's no problem on that, that we'll be totally discreet, but that I think we're going to be in a terrible position if we turn it down.
1:08:21The second point is, I think you should tell the brain that.
1:08:25We're rather surprised by this attack.
1:08:27I tell them it's an attack.
1:08:28And you could say, look, you don't know it.
1:08:31The president said he wants to make the best possible arrangement.
1:08:36Right.
1:08:36We're all out.
1:08:37We're on the same track.
1:08:39But an attack in North Vietnam may make it impossible.
1:08:43It may spoil it.
1:08:44Well, I play very hard.
1:08:46In fact, at the end of his letter, he had a rather mild expression of hope that we wouldn't bomb the Mosque.
1:08:53And I can just say, well, we can't.
1:08:55We've shown great, great strength, great restraint since this.
1:08:59Now, he says, we're going to have to do it.
1:09:00And it's only because they're attacking.
1:09:03And you've just got to keep having to knock off this attacker.
1:09:06We're going to bomb it.
1:09:07But I tell him, look, Mr.
1:09:09Ambassador, I cannot vouch for what he won't do.
1:09:13I mean, don't think that it's going to be limited to what we have done before.
1:09:16Throw that in again.
1:09:17These facts continue.
1:09:20I think you, I believe I owe it to you to say that don't assume that it will not be, that it will be limited to the time of the bombing.
1:09:31The effort is not to be deceived.
1:09:33We've tried to get them to attack in February, in March, and now in December, they've been in Spain.
1:09:39No, October, November, the weather was bad.
1:09:41I don't know when they came in time.
1:09:43Maybe in July or the 30th.
1:09:47But I don't know.
1:09:49Thank you, Henry.
1:09:55You know, it's incredible that that Scotch man, that scum man, still went forward that way.
1:10:01showed you little shit asses in the State Department building.
1:10:04Those little, gut-damned bastards, you know, calling them direct, not even important.
1:10:08It's like an attorney in the States, you know what I mean?
1:10:11Yeah.
1:10:11Trying to leave big shots about their little channel.
1:10:13And of course, Bill is like, says, who did you came here to?
1:10:17I'm telling these people that all the messages must come through the State Department channel.
1:10:22Now, Bill knows they leave.
1:10:24You know, he knows it damn well.
1:10:28Well, we don't, don't we?
1:10:30Don't we know?
1:10:31Sure.
1:10:34I saw a little flag above.
1:10:35The bull right there.
1:10:38Man, he sure got trapped on that.
1:10:40Don't quite bug him about it, but...
1:10:44The vitals turned off, and that's all right.
1:10:47We turned it on.
1:10:49O'Bride whines around about it.
1:10:52Why didn't we allow a reporter or anything like that to hear it?
1:10:57To hell with it.
1:10:58We're not going to do it.
1:10:59They were there.
1:11:00They got to hear everything they want.
1:11:02They're not going to bring any goddamn reporters in.
1:11:05They've got to bring us to remember everything that's been invented.
1:11:09Make their notes.
1:11:14i don't think
1:11:25that decision.
1:11:28Coming back to IDT, that reason, your answer, I don't, let me say this, my life has been, I have been spending, and I, you know what I mean, because Colson is so terribly involved in it, and so is Clark, and actually I'm, and I'm, I'm, I'm just...
1:11:46But I've got to get someone away from the damn thing.
1:11:49And I can't be in the day-to-day deal about who talks to whom and all that sort of thing.
1:11:54But I've got to do it.
1:11:55Would you agree or not?
1:11:56Yeah.
1:11:57And I think they ought to get away from it, too, sometimes.
1:11:59I guess they can't.
1:12:00I think they can.
1:12:04Can I suggest one thing that I think would be very good?
1:12:09In the case of Colson, he hasn't been working his bottom line.
1:12:12I can tell that he's, you know, works till midnight, high after night, and he's up in the morning.
1:12:17Why don't you tell him that this is now Thursday, and that this is my room, because he ought to take off Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.
1:12:24He wants you to go to camp too.
1:12:25You know what I mean?
1:12:26He was the other side of the camp.
1:12:29What do you think?
1:12:30Is that a good idea?
1:12:31Take a stand.
1:12:33Take time off.
1:12:33You won't go up there, you'll go south, and that's what he ought to do.
1:12:36Would you urge him, and maybe urge him this afternoon to go together if you've got him going?
1:12:41He needs time off.
1:12:41He'll come back with a different perspective too.
1:12:47Now you've got to keep the, enter that sign, warfare between the White House and the department.
1:12:53I know that usually the department isn't worth a damn.
1:12:56I also know that the White House is always right too.
1:12:59Where there is a tendency when you get over here,
1:13:02Everybody, you have to believe that we have all the balls in play.
1:13:05You know, Henry isn't always right, despite his state.
1:13:08He hits about 75% of the time.
1:13:10But goddammit, you can't just assume that the other 25% is right, too.
1:13:13He isn't.
1:13:14Right?
1:13:15Sure.
1:13:16And that's about the record we have on the domestic side.
1:13:19I don't care who he is.
1:13:20Yeah.
1:13:21What if you're earlier than anybody?
1:13:22I mean, nobody's right more than about 75% of the time.
1:13:26So all the brains aren't here.
1:13:28Right?
1:13:30Now, on this thing, you play the role.
1:13:33You say, and you tell the client, he says, I suppose you called, I guess.
1:13:37If he doesn't call, you call him.
1:13:40And you say, now, look, we've got, now, just so we, I agree a little about what he said to McGregor.
1:13:48I said, now, McGregor has got the responsibility to get those votes, and he's going to get them.
1:13:53And he said, we want you, and the president wants you to work together on this thing.
1:14:00Now, as far as the old man is concerned, the President wants you to deal with it directly and not Mario.
1:14:07Put it that way.
1:14:08Put it to him straight.
1:14:10But I don't want this spread around too much.
1:14:13I prefer that he do it directly.
1:14:15He, this thing is so sensitive at this point.
1:14:21See, Mario didn't know about that damn lawyer either, Bob.
1:14:24And didn't believe that you would bring your coat in, sir.
1:14:29and didn't get the thing turned off even if Mitchell told them to be arguing with Mitchell and didn't do it.
1:14:35You do.
1:14:36What else do you think you could tell him?
1:14:39Well, I think I also raised the question of him, of these modifying factors having into this turning off the hearing and he's got to raise that question.
1:14:49I'd like to start before he talks to Eastland saying he ought to raise that question with Eastland.
1:14:54We've got a, we've got all these other rulers, how are we going to turn those on?
1:14:57I mean, Clinton's just finally said to you the hearings will be ended.
1:15:00The point is, I'm going to remind you of that.
1:15:03He's got to commit to you that the hearings are going to be ended.
1:15:06That means a clean end to the hearings.
1:15:07It doesn't mean shifting to a subcommittee of Teddy Kennedy, or a deal to take ten more witnesses over the next three weeks, or something like that.
1:15:17It means, what he said was they'll close them off on Thursday.
1:15:21Well, let's see if they really are going to do that.
1:15:24Are they really going to close them and then move to the floor?
1:15:27Or have they got to drag on?
1:15:29I mean, if he wants to handle Eastland, then he ought to take the same objective that the other guys that are handling Eastland are taking, which is try to end them.
1:15:39Okay.
1:15:39Clark's view is, let me handle it.
1:15:41I'll have the areas turned off.
1:15:43Clark says it's not quite Eastland's game.
1:15:45He won't get it turned off.
1:15:48You want me to bring him in?
1:15:50It would be helpful.
1:16:12I don't think so.
1:16:13I think I should, unless you think so.
1:16:15Well, I just, I didn't talk about that.
1:16:18The argument for it would be his, he's got to know he's working, you know, as your man.
1:16:26That's, he's shocked, which surprised me.
1:16:29And I think it's probably, we could see, my niece is kind of a chef the way he deals, you know, he's an arrogant guy.
1:16:33You're an arrogant guy.
1:16:36He probably hit Clark.
1:16:38Go ahead.
1:16:41I talked to the president.
1:16:46I bet this all worked out.
1:16:47I'm guilty to say I don't know about anything.
1:16:49It worked out.
1:16:52Clark was obviously shook by that, because when he called last night, I told him to cut it out this morning.
1:16:59He didn't cut it out.
1:17:02But where is Olsen?
1:17:03Did he meet him, too?
1:17:06I think I know what they want.
1:17:24Do you think that I would talk in front of Clark?
1:17:48Why do we have a meeting with the plaintiffs for the purpose of getting sued for our money?
1:17:53Huh?
1:17:53No, it makes the point that the plaintiffs have to get out, which I won't even tell Clark.
1:17:59See, I can't tell Clark and Colson what our plan is on that.
1:18:02I'm not going to.
1:18:03You know, I can't tell them that I told the Attorney General that was $8 for his help.
1:18:09Don't ever assume that...
1:18:12Coulson's office has leaked a bit.
1:18:14You know, it has from time to time.
1:18:16And just as any question, something leaks out of here.
1:18:19And we've got to be more careful on that point.
1:18:21That's why I saw Kleine's alone.
1:18:24Kleine's is not leaking.
1:18:29Yeah.
1:18:30That's why we saw Kleine's.
1:18:31Well, you couldn't tell us about that, President.
1:18:34I had to prepare him for what happened at a later time.
1:18:37Correct.
1:18:38Sure.
1:18:45I don't think you've ever seen a scene like that.
1:18:49You want to?
1:18:50I will.
1:18:50You've got to keep the scene bringing it up.
1:18:52You want to do that?
1:18:54I'll see what the best thing is.
1:18:55You want to clear away some of the anger, right?
1:19:00Clear away the anger.
1:19:02Clear away the anger.
1:19:10Let's wait a minute.
1:19:53I'll be glad to meet with you.
1:19:55You see, one of the, one of the, why did you, because you're talking to Clive, you said it had to do with what, right?
1:20:01I said I was just trying to think.
1:20:03What do you have in mind?
1:20:04I'd say Clive, that's what I'm thinking.
1:20:17Say, of course, did you know I talked to Clint East last night, he had his evaluation, I'd like to get your run down now, but he stuffed this in my mind, I don't want, no, no, no, I'm trying, I don't want to get into that, I don't want to get into the votes, and who's this and that, he's giving me that, and I'm not going to say a damn thing, I'm just going to refuse the whole thing, you know, we know what it is, some things they can, some things they don't, some things are going to be one vote, some things are going to be none, but you know, that's the point, the point is, how do we get every goddamn vote we can?
1:20:47he's told me already what he would want to tell you is his concern about how where the committee's gonna end up
1:21:14I'm not used to it.
1:21:16You said perfect.
1:21:16I don't want to.
1:21:20Bob, there's one in your meeting this morning.
1:21:22I just want you to know where this stands.
1:21:24I told him, he said, I don't have to be responsible for the dealings, dealing with Eastman on this because of the relationship he's got with Eastman.
1:21:36That in no way interferes or gets into the other things, and that doesn't.
1:21:43Well, the thing is, dude, and see, we've told Clint, I've got to back up on that with Clint.
1:21:47We've told Clint to keep his work away from Eastman.
1:21:49I think I've got to say to Clint, you see what I mean?
1:21:52McGregor is to decline to take Eastman's calls.
1:21:54No, no, no, no.
1:21:56McGregor is to inform Eastman, not only to take his call, but to inform Eastman on the counts that he's getting up there on the Republican side.
1:22:04You see what I mean?
1:22:07Clint's purpose is to make a deal with Eastman, but he's going to do it, that's all.
1:22:19Why does every person think that he has to handle everything by his confident self?
1:22:24Because why don't people like help?
1:22:28They do if the help will work with them.
1:22:29But the problem he's got here is the help.
1:22:32The people, they don't get together and work it out together.
1:22:34And then, well, one guy's going off doing one thing, another guy just as yesterday.
1:22:42Our guys are having a bonafide with Marty than they do with Eastman.
1:22:47How did you work out the gridiron?
1:22:52Ron's talked to Poe.
1:22:53Work it out.
1:22:54It's all done.
1:22:56Now you're supposed to be in Florida, right?
1:23:00What about Rodgers?
1:23:01Who's going to do the response to the toast?
1:23:04Herbert is what we suggested.
1:23:06That's what he's doing.
1:23:09I don't know if he's tough to put in.
1:23:10Would it be a good gesture for you to, without having him, without taking him with us, as well as, apparently, those with us are not, because they're not staying with me, to have Rogers go to Florida?
1:23:25I think he was going to make his own plans for being gone.
1:23:28Good.
1:23:28All right.
1:23:31Just be sure he's informed.
1:23:32I will be away until then.
1:23:34And he should be away until he's all right.
1:23:37That's the way that's left.
1:23:38That's good.
1:23:39So we know that he understands.
1:23:47Let me say this.
1:23:49I think in regard to Clark, I think what I would do, you should talk to the client and tell the client, now let's understand that we've got everybody working on this thing and we're going to have to have the prayers even on it.
1:24:06You know, Ryan heard of these Republicans because tell him about, for example, what is developing that he doesn't know about and that we didn't know about last night.
1:24:14Tell him, for example, some of the Republicans are going off half-assed on this drill of having a subcommittee to pinch the hitters.
1:24:21You understand?
1:24:23And also that Eastland is talking about enacting the attorney general during the election.
1:24:32And he says, you know, Eastland knows very well we can't wheel that political.
1:24:38I think we've got to keep sticking that knife right in the car.
1:24:42Yeah, I think the attorney general for the election.
1:24:44Do you have any doubts on that, sir, or right or wrong?
1:24:47Or, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but, you know, Mitch was the same way, but I think both Mitch and my client base were thinking in terms of the attorney general rather than in terms of the election.
1:24:55Yeah.
1:24:56Not meeting you, but naturally they're there, and they think your Justice Department is very important.
1:25:00Correct?
1:25:02Also, you know, it's a hell of a problem to get anybody else to confirm.
1:25:12You'll have a damn can of worms.
1:25:16Question, you also wrote this.
1:25:18Client needs to be right.
1:25:21Or shall we say, sure, client needs to be closer right than client.
1:25:27Client needs cannot be confirmed.
1:25:30Instead, Chuck, you're making a judgment statement, not an actual statement.
1:25:33You don't know whether you need to be confirmed.
1:25:35You just don't think you can be.
1:25:38He thinks he can be.
1:25:39He thinks a filibuster will die.
1:25:41You think a filibuster will last forever.
1:25:43You may be wrong.
1:25:45Also, we've got a 1st agenda bill, too.
1:25:48If we clear out the 1st agenda, we'll be able to pull that bill.
1:25:54You forgot.
1:25:56And pulling the flood line could be done at any time.
1:25:58It should only be done against, even Chuck feels this, against a provocation.
1:26:02You don't have the provocation now.
1:26:07You would have if the filibuster wasn't there.
1:26:09It might make you force it close your boat and lose it.
1:26:11We're going to get back in two or three minutes.
1:26:13You get Colson.
1:26:14He's going to go out of town.
1:26:15We're going to talk to Goldstein.
1:26:17We're going to talk to Goldstein.
1:26:19Do you think so?
1:26:25There was lots of things, but they'll screw people.
1:26:28I think what he needs is a chef, and he's extremely valuable to us.
1:26:34He's worked like hell in this food thing.
1:26:36He's been doing work in many fields where the ball's been dropped by others.
1:26:41And God damn it, we've just got to get him well.
1:26:45It's like Henry.
1:26:45It's the same thing.
1:26:47Chuck is just going to be getting him well.
1:26:51He'll work.
1:26:51Next week's going to be hard for him.
1:26:59And you'll talk, and I suggest you talk to Clark again, and then come in.
1:27:05Well, you talk to the client and work it out with him, and then you come in to Clark and tell him, say, look, this is the understanding we have.
1:27:13We want to be sure that this is what you want.
1:27:16How about doing it that way?
1:27:17Okay.
1:27:18How does that sound to you?
1:27:21And I'll say exactly that.
1:27:22I'll say we want everybody, and we know where the votes have to be done.
1:27:26It's the responsibility of the treasurer.
1:27:28But there are, incidentally, I think you ought to handle with him why I had to see Clint Easton alone.
1:27:36How can you do that?
1:27:39Well, I think that really already happened.
1:27:41Yeah.
1:27:41That I should be...
1:27:44I said, this was not a thing to deal with.
1:27:47This was a matter of the president arriving in an understanding of Plunkett on how, whether he was on the various alternatives that might come.
1:27:57And he doesn't feel anybody else should know.
1:27:59And obviously, it was a, this wasn't a local kind of thing.
1:28:04I said, yeah, but you've got to ease on the relationship.
1:28:06I said, that's right.
1:28:07Plunkett's great.
1:28:08I had to sit down because Plunkett told him that.
1:28:19I think he and Chuck, in a sense, kind of beat on each other, too, in that they both liked each other's mislead, as he and Mitchell, they talked, like Mitchell and Martin.
1:28:37Yeah.
1:28:37As they did on the Chief Justice, or on the Supreme Court.
1:28:42Right.
1:28:49They could always be a time traveler, right?
1:28:52Can't assume they're wrong just because their track record has some blood issues in it.
1:28:59It has some successes to it.
1:29:03What does it matter the type they have?
1:29:06We have better than you right here.
1:35:39Look, I have an idea.
1:35:40I'd like for you to get Clark in and say, look, I just want to tell you that there's absolutely no, we have total confidence, the president has total confidence
1:35:54that could be believed.
1:35:56In fact, nobody can know what he's talking about.
1:36:00And you shouldn't know it.
1:36:02It's best that you not know.
1:36:03Just put it to him that way.
1:36:06And as far as the other thing is concerned, we've got to play every stop on this orbit.
1:36:13And you're going to be in charge of this boat here and so forth.
1:36:16But can I say one thing?
1:36:20I would like to keep Colson through a little bit further away than that.
1:36:25I think, Bob, that they intend to get into, frankly, get a little bit too involved, you know what I mean?
1:36:34And get the White House involved.
1:36:36And at least, you know, or if you don't agree with me, I don't think it leaks from there.
1:36:44I think what does happen is Colson pushes hard on people who don't like it, and then they said to me, you know, that Colson is doing this on behalf of God, the Senate, excuse me.
1:36:58So Charles pointed out, he doesn't do it, nobody does, nobody else will get it, if I get this stuff done.
1:37:06I think Clark is better than Colson at this point.
1:37:11That's what I mean.
1:37:12And he's supposed to be getting the votes.
1:37:14Isn't that really the difference?
1:37:20You tell Clark that, and then bring in Walter Johnson, working with him, who is also, you know, supposed to be with him, so you've got no problem there.
1:37:28Yeah.
1:37:28And then you bring, you come in with Clark, and you say, now, bless him, you see him.
1:37:35It's not a good idea.
1:37:36You ought to talk to him about these things, not this one.
1:37:40You should make the old man be up.
1:37:42Well, I hope I get it before he calls.
1:37:45Hey, fine, get right at it.
1:37:49Helpful to take care of it.

Nixon, Haldeman & Kissinger on ITT case and Richard Kleindienst

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Also recorded on March 30, 1972

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