Nixon, Kissinger & Fitzsimmons on Labor Unions and Teamsters

4:59and also the sheet metal workers.
5:02And George has an MLS with you and has papers prepared for you to sign the papers that would bring into force an emergency board under the Railroad Emergency Act and the Labor Act, and they were advocating that.
5:17Actually, I'll be asked about this this afternoon, and George and the Secretary of Fuel and I should say,
5:24that while we feel at this time in assessing and nothing further can be done in negotiations, the President will sign the papers to put into force an emergency point, which will give a 60-day period and so forth.
5:37But I want to get your approval on that.
5:38Yeah.
5:39To say we can't tolerate it.
5:45That's right.
5:46The nation cannot tolerate a workshop at this point in time.
5:54in whatever action is necessary.
5:57And I'll have a future.
5:58You seem to be very willing to take a strong line.
6:06It's always a good thing.
6:08Carl Albert today said the new freeze on wages and prices might be in order.
6:17And once inflation has curved, the economy is moving in, so forth.
6:20He attacks the program and so forth.
6:22I tried to go to him.
6:23I tried to reach Conley, but he's on his way to his ranch, so I talked to Herb Stein, and I think the best approach to this is to express confidence in what we're doing and so forth, but also say we continue to assess things.
6:35At the present time, we have no plans of moving to a further freeze, but leave sort of a little... Yeah, I can simply say that.
6:55as Secretary Connolly has indicated, and as his parents, and as the Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers, Mr. Stein, has indicated, and the President has indicated that the program is working.
7:25the rate of inflation has been slowed.
7:28We are confident that we will achieve our goal of cutting the rate of inflation in half by the end of this year with the President's program.
7:41We are, we, however, as the President's indicated, we are constantly appraising the program as a fact.
7:52And we are prepared to take
7:56what action is necessary to achieve that goal.
8:00We believe, however, it is our conviction that at this time, the present program will achieve it, provided it has the cooperation of all segments of the economy in support of the American people.
8:18Yes, sir.
8:24We sure have a cold spring, haven't we?
8:26Yes, sir.
8:27I'm going to simply confirm that seven had breakfast with me.
8:36Yes, yes.
8:38What did you say?
8:42Yes, it's in my press picture.
8:47No, I think not.
8:49That's right.
8:49We don't.
8:55I want to come in and discuss various labor problems.
9:02I'm asking his advice about the docks right on the west coast, among other things.
9:09One other.
9:12I'll be asked whether or not Porter will see the president.
9:15He's going to be brought in back.
9:17You don't have to have an excuse.
9:20Even if he doesn't, I think, I'm sure he's going to say yes.
9:23Because if you wobble around... Yeah, well, the point is, I've said directly that I...
9:28The reporter did exactly what he was doing after trying to bring us up.
9:31I want to get a first-hand report.
9:34So it's back to consultation.
9:35Right, but I wouldn't reaffirm his break-up.
9:39No, I'm sure.
9:41Sure.
9:42We're prepared to talk initially.
9:44Well, I wouldn't even come that far.
9:46I mean, I've just been talking to you in your own situation.
9:49Just say that we're reviewing the situation.
9:53I mean, I'm just getting that.
9:58We're reviewing our negotiating, reviewing the whole status of the negotiations.
10:06We're just reviewing the whole status of the negotiations.
10:10We don't want to reiterate the refusal to come back.
10:13Oh, we're going to come back.
10:18I understand.
10:21I have a long talk with Sabrina, and I put the Polish proposition to him, and I said, you know, the basic departure that we're doing here is that we want to build policy on the recognition of we're two superpowers, and that we don't want to interfere in each other's basic concerns.
10:46And I showed him the cable we had from Warsaw and the reply we gave.
10:50I said, this is the spirits which we'd like to deal with you.
10:54We don't need to ask you whether we want to go there, but if we want to show you, President is particularly concerned.
11:02And what's your reaction?
11:04He was practically in tears.
11:06He said, this is the most treacherous thing I've heard.
11:10I cannot tell you, Henry, how much this will impress Mr. President.
11:15He said, I said, I want you to know, when we went to Romania, we knew it would annoy you.
11:22We're going to Warsaw because if it raises any problems for you, they'll look away and see it.
11:31And he was bracketing tears, he said.
11:34Speaking informally as a member of the Central Committee, I'm certain that they will say yes.
11:40But if you can wait till Monday, he said,
11:43so that it is formally, just that you get a formal reply from us.
11:48It would mean a great deal to us, but I can tell you now that it would be yes.
11:53It will almost certainly be, but he was practically in tears.
11:57You see, they, uh, we have to realize we've got some chips to play, too, here.
12:01Oh, yeah.
12:02And they, uh, they know we can just, uh, but it does show we're trying to cooperate.
12:07Exactly.
12:07And you told him that I would not embarrass him.
12:09I said, you don't say nothing.
12:11It really does.
12:12And, uh, I said, that's to us important domestic consideration.
12:17He understood that.
12:19Oh, yeah.
12:19And I said, we are not doing this for the same reason as
12:23which wasn't done to annoy you, but in which we were willing to pay the price.
12:29In this case, we frankly want to stay on his ankle.
12:33You told him, you reiterated, I thought, the importance of the song.
12:38Oh, well, that's how it sounded.
12:40He liked that.
12:40Oh, God, yes.
12:41And then on Vietnam, I said, you know, you've been...
12:47mentioning now two or three times that we had not maybe discussed.
12:49And I said, first of all, I want you to know what the president said to me.
12:52And I mentioned that.
12:54That's why I called you.
12:56I didn't know you were there, but I called over here to talk about it.
12:59And then I found you.
13:01I said, what the hell?
13:03I just called.
13:04I didn't press you for another time.
13:05He knows that we're in contact.
13:06Secondly, he said, now let me make a proposal to you which just occurred to me.
13:10He said, it's got no official standing.
13:11It's just my own idea.
13:14But how would this be?
13:16He said, why don't you offer a withdrawal for a deadline?
13:20I said, well, if we do that, then they'll say you have to stop military aid, too.
13:25And we can't do that.
13:27He said, but maybe we can help there.
13:29He said, supposing you make this with a proposal, that you withdraw in return for a deadline.
13:42give a deadline for withdrawal in return for prisoners.
13:46And you and we agreed not to give any more military aid, we to North Vietnam and you to South Vietnam.
13:54That wouldn't be a bad deal.
13:58So I said, you know, I said, frankly, the president thinks he's got this all won.
14:05You know, I've played it very tough.
14:06I said, we feel...
14:08That if we can last till November, which I'm sure we can, then we have four years to settle accounts.
14:14So you are... We don't feel any pressure.
14:18It's an offensive.
14:19I'll tell you right now, we're not going to have any secret or other meetings.
14:23I just thought we could go back and... Yeah, I know what you're saying, sir.
14:27Yeah, I know what you're saying, sir.
14:29And I said, if you want to find out how Moscow reacts to this proposition,
14:34The president has always said that he'd be open-minded, and I've explored it in the meantime with the president.
14:41I frankly think if we could get that sort of a deal, it would be... What do you mean, if they would have stopped their aid?
14:46If we stop our reason for the action?
14:50Military aid we can continue to give to the army.
14:54And why don't you give military aid if the North...
14:58I think if the North doesn't get military equipment, why should the South not get military equipment?
15:06But obviously, I haven't seen him since I was on stage there a minute.
15:08Do you know him?
15:11You see, he's pitched off because you saw Gibbons.
15:14Gibbons, the left wing teacher.
15:18He was a member of the East Group who ran for president in Vietnam.
15:22And I don't want to be sure that you know his story.
15:25All right.
15:25President, how are you going to say that we just had a message from the Soviet ambassador I haven't received?
15:33I want you to meet Henry Kissinger.
15:37I also want to tell you this.
15:39If it meets with your approval, and I think it will because I know how you and I feel about these issues, I'd like to set up a system whereby Henry will privately brief you on the international situation.
16:01particularly as we go to this Russian summit.
16:05Then, that way, you'll know what to tell your folks about the national events and some of those things.
16:13And I'd like you to think it would be a good idea if you'd be interested in that very much.
16:16Now, he can do that, or he can do your board.
16:21But now, I think you should know that we have done that with me.
16:25And as a matter of fact, we've
16:29We gave him everything after we returned from China.
16:34My long experience with your calls, I mean, I know where they stand.
16:38They wear flags.
16:40Where's yours?
16:43Anyway, I was going to say, I think it would be very helpful that we do it.
16:48Because you see, the thing is, Frank, is the piece of things came in.
16:53In fact, one of your vice presidents went out to Hanawag or something like that.
16:58And they always asked to be agreed.
17:00But what we want to do, and right now it's terribly important that the United States, if we go into this meeting with the Soviet Union, be strong, you know, that we see this thing through.
17:10But we need guys like yourself to stand up.
17:13But you can't stand up unless you know what we're up to.
17:16That's the fact.
17:17So if you like, I will, and we will arrange, I'm kind of here in town for some time, so I have to go.
17:25I saw Mr. Gibbons because I think every group that goes to Illinois, just in case, they drive to the park, that we can indicate something.
17:34Yeah.
17:34Mr. Gibbons, do you mind if I share this one?
17:37What do you want to say?
17:39Today's show is raised widely.
17:47Oh, it is?
17:56Good.
17:57Well, that's what they told them.
17:58And he just repeated what they told him.
18:03I tried to.
18:04But anyway, what we'll do, Henry, I think the time is not right now, but before we go to Moscow, maybe about two weeks before we go to Moscow, you arrange the Chalice.
18:15uh, have, uh, have Frank, uh, maybe just, maybe just the two of you sit down, whichever form you guys, you, you sit, you sit down and get him to straighten the breathing as to what's gonna come up, arms control, do these other things, so he'll know what we're up to.
18:29Henry doesn't play golf like George does, but he's got some more of those tokens.
18:35Yeah.
18:35Come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on.
18:48Sit over here.
18:51Sorry to keep you waiting for that.
18:53But I get a picture now.
19:04Well, I wanted to
19:17If I could start this little talk with the first of myself.
19:27I'm very grateful that you did not leave the pay board.
19:29I know that you must have caught on shuddering hell from a lot of your colleagues.
19:34I think, however, that your decision, and I'm going to do my very best in our shop to see that this comes true, that your decision,
19:44and the way things happen will prove to be a good one.
19:48In other words, what really matters is whether we do get, you know, this cost of living moving down.
19:54If it does move down, then the people that fought the battle are going to look good.
19:58The people that didn't fight the battle aren't going to look so good.
20:02The other thing that is exciting to do, and I want your decision, I want to get a good picture before I say it, because your actions are quite interesting.
20:19And what I would like is really your best advice as to how we handle these things.
20:27One of the things that is very important in my mind is this.
20:33I don't want George Meany's action to hang on us and on me, the anti-labor tag.
20:40I'm not anti-labor.
20:41I'm pro-labor.
20:42I really am.
20:45I don't want union members across this country to think, my God, we're fighting for you, and the members are not.
20:52I'm for unions.
20:53I'm for their members.
20:54There's a whole lot of them.
20:58And therefore, it is very important, and I'm speaking very apart from politics, which is also important in another way, but it's very important that we have communication with some of these leaders.
21:10Now, at the present time, you must feel kind of lonely on the other hand.
21:16We are continuing a pretty good dialogue with the construction boys, aren't we, John?
21:21Very good.
21:21We're trying to keep them in that right to our state.
21:25Yes, and of course, Fisk and the Teamsters are very close to the construction team.
21:27Well, they work with them a lot.
21:30Let me say, I think that we all have, if whenever we're talking to any of the folks at LCIO, you know, I mean, those boys, you should tell them, which is the truth, and it's true to me,
21:43that the door, as I said they had done, Miami, the door to this White House is open to any of, any of, any leader of America, you know what I mean, any of you here.
21:53They haven't agreed with us all the time, but it's open.
21:57But on the other hand, I mean, I've got a column as a senior, and in this thing, I had to make that decision, and George took his view, and George made his, and so that's where we stand.
22:13But we really now need your advice.
22:17We need, frankly, your counsel, your support.
22:20I mean, I'm being very selfish about it, because basically, you are the only major union leader, you know, who hasn't told us to go to hell.
22:30Major one, I said.
22:32You know, we've got Pete Brennan, he's a major one in his way, but he isn't, but as a nation,
22:39and any other national ones have had to give us the list.
22:42So the National Village is a leader.
22:44But that isn't England.
22:45That's part of the NFL Seattle.
22:47That is the presence of various.
22:52So that's what I want you to know.
22:54That's the way we feel about it.
22:57And by the same token, to the extent that we can help, it matters that my children still will help.
23:03It's just that way.
23:04Well, I appreciate that.
23:07as you say, about our friends over on 16th Street.
23:10I wouldn't worry too much about it.
23:14What's your evaluation of that?
23:16I think that we find ourselves with a beleaguered individual.
23:20What do you mean?
23:22Do you think it's personal?
23:36Well, it's personal to this extent.
23:38Me, number one, you must remember he has no membership.
23:44All he's got is unions, et cetera.
23:47Frankly, he has nothing.
23:52So I had never thought of it that way.
23:55In other words, that's if I see what I understand.
24:00April has membership for us guys.
24:02You have membership.
24:03But Meany hasn't.
24:04Meany hasn't.
24:05You're good constituents, I guess.
24:07Okay.
24:07Now that's number one.
24:10Meany likes to, has a lying life, wants to be a kingmaker.
24:16And he thought he had the material for a king in Scoop Jackson.
24:23Well, I'll evaluate it if you will.
24:25Good man.
24:26That's all.
24:27Well, let's evaluate it on this premise, and this is where you've got to look at it.
24:33Meany fell down the stairs when he openly endorsed Scrooge Jackson for the presidency of the United States.
24:41The result of it is that on the relationship that was built up between Woodcock and myself,
24:51George and me, you know, all this value and talk about the setting up, the actual setting up of the board and so forth.
25:00I'm sure we all know how it was set up.
25:03And we bowed to his requests and tripartite systems.
25:08He knew it all along.
25:11Woodcock was the fellow that got him to agree to the meeting.
25:15Well, now...
25:16Through you?
25:17That's right.
25:18I think, as I remember, George, you called, you were the broker.
25:23That's right.
25:25So, on that basis, they got together, me and Woodcock, on the basis of Walter getting killed.
25:36Walter didn't mean to be...
25:51We didn't meet on A.L.A.
25:55I didn't want to carry it out.
25:58I didn't want to carry it out.
26:01I mean, for one reason, he was getting back to Lucifer.
26:04Lucifer got before, and he was doing, in my estimation, he'd done something for this country that should have been done, and I'd like to have continued it.
26:16But now, Woodcock gets himself into a position
26:21for this strike.
26:22Now, the NFL CIO didn't lend Woodcock anything.
26:27There's only three of them that lent him any money.
26:30One was the rubber workers, the steel workers, and ourselves.
26:39I think P. Bonrano lent him a million dollars, and Abe lent him three.
26:43And then when he was going down the drain, he came running to me, and I had $25 million.
26:48$25 million?
26:51Yes.
26:53But I didn't lend it to him because his name was Woodcock.
26:55I lent it to him because the membership of his children was necessary to maintain this home.
27:02Of course, that's why they called me the UAW Landlord, which calls properties and is collateral.
27:13Well, you took a lot.
27:13Oh, yes.
27:14Wasn't that just you and William?
27:20That's not much.
27:22Now, I'm sure now that that's where I made my mistake.
27:28Because I'm sure that Meany and Woodcock has their deal of him going back to the L.O.C.I.O.
27:36Now,
27:38one time tried to take a step forward, which he did, and endorsed the muskie.
27:42Who endorsed the muskie?
27:43This person.
27:46And he got us forward to the muskie.
27:49And some people come and talk to me and so forth, and I don't even know how old my guard was when they were on down the line.
28:02Well, they said, Jesus, you're out in front here and so forth, and I said, I do it when I believe it.
28:08Now, when Woodcock endorsed Muskie, George thought because of the New Hampshire primary and following with the Florida primary, that Woodcock had mistaken.
28:27But whenever Muskie picked up a step in the Orange primary, me had to get put the pressure on.
28:39Because if Woodcock and Muskie gained any recognition, and by some trick of fate, comes out of the convention with a nomination, they won't be saying that they have Belzeal in Washington.
29:02So what vehicle has he got left?
29:05The only vehicle he's got left is to put the pressure on.
29:09and this great labor leader, Ed Smith, and Mr. Woodcock.
29:15And of course, this other chatterbox he has over there, this fellow named Golding.
29:23Golding, now, who is a boy.
29:30And the result of it is, this is the reason, actual reason why they put you on the pay board.
29:39Woodcock didn't have enough stomach to walk with them the day that they walked out.
29:45Woodcock was waiting for me.
29:46And I said to myself, you, last year you're gonna make your own decision this time.
30:01Because I know how many people feel as though he is Woodcock.
30:05And I've got that trump card.
30:10And I pulled you out of here.
30:13I gave you life.
30:15And then you went with Mr. Meany and got me, and walked away and left me all by myself.
30:21So when he falls down, it's painful.
30:26But I don't say to him, well, I'll take your son down to property, or... That's the only way I could play the game.
30:37But this is the real reason they walked off the table on us.
30:43Nobody else could deny it.
30:44Nobody could sell me any different.
30:46Well, that plus the reason you told me this, that he knew the food press, I mean, the BLC.
30:51Oh, yes, he knew that.
30:52Yeah, I'll go down next month.
30:55Anyway, you think basically it was a political decision.
31:03political decision, political decision to gain the step over the other guy.
31:07And I think we could be real blunt with each other.
31:13George may realize that he hasn't got the answer in all the helps he used to have to the extent that Richard M. Nixon's gonna come out from steps and throw the red carpet down the floor every time he walks in.
31:30He did it pretty good though.
31:31Oh yes.
31:33Better than what he should be treated.
31:34Yeah, considering what he said.
31:35That's right.
31:36Yeah.
31:37I must say, on national security, I heard it, but otherwise he's getting the hell out of us.
31:44Well, I don't think, I think some of his case has been a hell of a lot of good.
31:48I've never been over my father.
31:52And I don't over honor my own father.
31:55I didn't think you'd take polls, sir.
31:56Well, I have a few polls in Colorado County, and then I have some reactions.
32:02I've got a file that's thick over there.
32:07Congratulations on my position to stay on the table.
32:09Is that right?
32:11From what kind of people?
32:12All kinds.
32:13You know, working men and women, businessmen.
32:19The one I got just before I came over here.
32:22I looked at it.
32:23There's a fellow who runs a little real estate company down in Lakeland, Florida.
32:29Oh, what's he doing?
32:30Right in the center of Florida.
32:33Says, I want to congratulate you.
32:35You won't know what this really means to me as a small businessman.
32:43Great.
32:46You got some of the other stuff too, didn't you?
32:49Very, very few.
32:52Very few.
32:53I don't think I have out of a possible 250, 300.
32:56Congratulations.
32:58I don't think I have 15, thank you.
33:03That's very interesting.
33:08Did Senator Coyle use this?
33:10Who?
33:10Mr.
33:11Senator from Pennsylvania.
33:13The pollster.
33:14He was pulling over the weekend.
33:16He said he was going to call you or write you or telegram you because he kept getting very negative signs on the internet, but an awful lot of people would raise your name and say how great they thought you were.
33:26How many did he call?
33:29He gets about 6 to 800 a day phone calls made.
33:36And he called me Monday morning and he said that over the weekend he had gotten
33:45some very interesting reactions, very interesting, I mean, for the first time a lot of people raising your name, saying, you know, this fellow fits in, that's a good one.
33:54I told him to pass it on to you, but it would be, if you liked on his name, I'm sure I'd avoid it.
33:59I just got back this morning.
34:06But, seriously, I think the only thing that, as far as the appalls are concerned, would have been great.
34:16are trying to do is to build up.
34:20And nobody can get too self-assured at this time.
34:23You've got six months to go, even, for sure.
34:27And public opinion is a great thing.
34:31Well, it's trickle as hell.
34:33Today, you've got a number of them arranged.
34:35Tomorrow, you haven't.
34:36But I, as far as industry is concerned,
34:46and I listened with great interest this morning on the news report in respect of what John Connolly said yesterday.
34:54I would like to see, and I don't know just when would be the opportunity, and it has to be judged very, very intense, but I would like to see something from out there
35:15to fool them into investing in this country, they better reduce their prices 2% or 3%.
35:27I think that on the basis of how it's applied, that this, in my opinion, because there's no doubt in my mind that the retail of the horse and the brides in this country
35:44I was totally ignored.
35:47The real concept of what you were trying to do with this economic situation in this country.
35:59Well, Connolly, I really read the act on yesterday in relation to the big change.
36:03Grace is going to have in the middleman next week.
36:06And he's going over their problem parties, right, George?
36:11Now, what you're talking about, too,
36:16You're talking about a further statement.
36:17I think it has.
36:18I think that as far as administration, they cut that part.
36:23You remember the argument and discussion.
36:27And many, if you notice, is trying to come back in.
36:29Some other people are trying to come back in with a control of profits.
36:32Now, whenever the rat act was re-established, this hardens me right down real quick.
36:41I've said this in general.
36:42I think I said this in general every time I talk to you.
36:48Whenever the Stabilization Act was being argued in the House, I thought you'd read the records, you'll see my statement there.
36:58This guy said the Stabilization Act didn't go far enough.
37:04Mr. Meany and Mr. Beamer, and what not, came to me with a compromise, that we would just kill the wages and prices, et cetera.
37:14I said to hell with that, I'd rather lose the damn country
37:19Because if you're going to give them fire, then make it all inclusive.
37:25But they can't.
37:25They watered it down and only let the Stabilization Act go as far as it did.
37:29Now, last year, whenever they brought it up for rediscussion in the passing of last fall, they had a right to write in again from the Central.
37:42Nobody did.
37:44It's the same that nobody's argued since we've had Democratic-controlled Congress for at least 16 years.
37:51Not one piece of legislation.
37:55And this here inflation we're going through now didn't come about, you know, since 1968.
38:04Not one piece of legislation was ever passed during Mr. Kennedy and Mr. Johnson's administration.
38:12Not one piece of legislation was passed to end the war because they knew that this country couldn't live on a peacetime economy if they had closed that war off overnight.
38:28And this is what I'm saying as far as the act is concerned.
38:36This doesn't preclude the administration of taking a definite position
38:43I'm saying the truth.
38:45People in this country, the price has got to be reduced two or three percent.
38:53Now this was the theory that went on of getting the economy down.
38:57Christ only knows everybody tried.
39:02Everybody tried.
39:02They don't have participation.
39:05And unfortunately, I'm not selling out my own people in labor, but I use only one
39:13Theory.
39:15One principle.
39:16I spent 40 years in organized labor.
39:21Have you?
39:2140 years.
39:22When did you go in?
39:23Did you go in and say, all right, did you go in as a member first, or did you go in as an organization at the beginning?
39:31Well, I went in, I drove a truck then.
39:33You did?
39:34Worked on the dock.
39:36And then it was in the unit.
39:38And ran for local office.
39:39Yeah.
39:3940 years.
39:44this year before here.
39:48All these years.
39:53We have this view.
39:57Inch.
40:12I never won an argument and stand on the outside throwing a brick.
40:17I never represented my people properly by being on the outside when I could be on the inside.
40:27And this is what I said to one of the walkers of the pay board.
40:30I said, you know that you maintain yourself as a labor leader.
40:37You know, when he strikes your organization, it's his name, Walker.
40:41One of the walkers.
40:43Oh, oh, oh, yeah, that's right.
40:45I'm sorry.
40:45I said, you've been on many strikes.
40:48You've had quite a bit of strife in your organization.
40:51Tell me one strike you ever won by walking away from it.
40:58I said, it's the same thing with this payboard, actually.
41:00Good, good, good.
41:02This is an economic strike.
41:05That's a very good line.
41:07Tell me one strike that you've ever won by walking away from it.
41:11That's right.
41:15What is the situation?
41:19Tommy, I'd like to talk a little, if this is out of order, don't answer, about your region at the present time.
41:27How's the morale of the boys?
41:29How are they feeling?
41:31Do they feel pretty good talking about our board or our membership?
41:36First, if you've got a thing under control, your membership feels good about your leadership and so forth, and then it will actually go more direct.
41:45You know, I read some of the little columns now and I just see a slip about whether Hoffa's going to try to get back in and the rest.
41:53Well now, you know, and Hoffa then,
41:56I am confident, Chuck, you were in constant touch with this, and so was John.
42:01Now, we made that decision, but I, right in his office, I remember I told you, and I told Mitchell at the same time, I said, now look, I'll sign this clemency order.
42:11But there must be a clear understanding that there's no, that he's not to screw around in that union again.
42:17I'm a certain member.
42:19You were very good about it.
42:21Now the point is, and also I told you to ask, but he said he was for it.
42:25There's a couple of things.
42:27I'm right about it.
42:31isn't doing, I just want to know.
42:34Is there anything going on that I should know about?
42:37Yes, there is.
42:38What are they doing?
42:38You don't want to ask me.
42:42Oh, no, I should have already come to that.
42:43Referral.
42:44As far as Hoffa is concerned, there's no doubt about it, he's the most thankful person in the world.
42:55Hoffa, as you said,
43:00I knew Jimmy Hoffman when he came into the neighborhood, but he couldn't say six words almost.
43:10Now, whenever he was racist enough and good enough to sign that plan to save the boy,
43:26I talked to John, and I think I talked to you too, Chet, and he said, well, Jesus, we'd rather you wouldn't go out.
43:34Well, as far as I know, Chet, I said, I'm going.
43:40I just, my friend, he's here.
43:41He says, please, don't go to prison.
43:43And I didn't go to prison.
43:45I waited.
43:45It seemed about half an hour away from the airport, so there'd be no insurance.
43:51And I talked with that guy.
43:54He said, yeah, yes, thank you.
43:56Well, they have everything else.
43:57So I said, what are you going to do?
44:00And he says, they're not going to put me on the shelf.
44:02I said, I don't know what it takes for you, boy.
44:05He said, they're just short of five years.
44:08And only through the grace of God and the goodwill of President Nixon, you're riding an automobile without some surveillance.
44:20So he said, well,
44:23I said, if you want to listen to me, you go to St. Louis, spend the holidays with your family, then go to Florida for a week or 10 days, get yourself a little regulated, and then you and Joseph can get on a boat and go for a two or three months cruise.
44:42I'm sure that we can get you cleared to do that.
44:47Sure.
44:48All right.
44:48Make up your own mind.
44:53I'll tell you why.
44:54You talked to him about this to me.
44:55I didn't know I could see it.
44:57I only sat at one time and rode an airplane.
44:59I didn't know who it was.
45:01It was right in front of me.
45:01I thought it was sitting there in the seat next to me.
45:07I said, do you know who that was?
45:11I looked around.
45:14This is when somebody said that.
45:18Go ahead.
45:18That way.
45:20You know what happened right in front of the prison?
45:21He started taking on the price board or the wage board, you know?
45:27So I told him, I said, you know, there's one thing, I says, there's your friend, I says, up in New Hampshire.
45:36There's not much to keep you in jail.
45:40That's right.
45:41Nixon did to get you out of jail.
45:44That's right.
45:45The guy was so radical that it made it almost impossible to move, you know.
45:51So he said, well, he's my friend.
45:53I said, who's the kind of friends that put you in?
45:55Who's the kind of friends that put you back in?
45:58I said, Jimmy, I just want you to know one thing.
46:06Since you've been away, since March 7, 1967, you've made one
46:12approached me when John Inglis died to put the givens in the secretary-chair of this international union.
46:19I told you then, no dice, that I would make the decision.
46:23A lot of people don't believe this.
46:25I read the newspapers, and I just wonder how in the hell these people think.
46:32But you have my word.
46:32There hasn't been a decision made in that international union that I can be full credit for.
46:42Of course, he had some outside commitments, but I lived with him until July the 5th, until he became the, until I became president, of which I'm sure that all of us are the same, you and me, and our associates and friends, with a banality of reflection against the organization.
47:00Until July the 5th, when I was elected, I canceled out all of my commitments.
47:05Now,
47:10As far as Hoffley is concerned, he's one of the schoolmates' speeches.
47:17He was on the phone just now when Flynn died.
47:19He started to go ahead and promote Kimmelis to be secretary and treasurer.
47:24Tell me, I missed Flynn.
47:25He was a secretary and treasurer at the Houston School.
47:30I met him.
47:31Yes, you did.
47:31He just died.
47:33He just died, and he had a blood clot stroke.
47:41And then he, then all of us wanted Gibbons.
47:44What is this thing with Gibbons with him?
47:48Now Gibbons is from St. Louis.
47:51I met him down there too.
47:54He was sitting on your right.
47:56Go ahead, tell me about Gibbons.
48:02Gibbons is supposed to be the, Jimmy.
48:07Yeah.
48:10Jimmy, uh, gave me a little assurance that we would take care of that matter.
48:20Better opportunity over in Illinois.
48:24That's right.
48:25Once in a while they make a mistake.
48:28But, he was too close.
48:31Him and Jimmy was, uh, very close.
48:34Ah.
48:35And, uh,
48:39Suffice to say that I'm sure that he and Gibbons had some, I don't necessarily call it extra particular activities while Jimmy was over here, but he seemed too many people think that that would be it.
48:55In other words, if you were to ask this question, would you say that Gibbons is kind of Hoffa's boy and he's kind of the one Hoffa's pushing, is that right?
49:03Well, when he's talking to Hoffa, he is.
49:08when he's talking to other people, he is assertive.
49:12How do you know, or maybe you don't know, but as I said, when he sent his attorney, Morris Shaker, to see me, he told me that Jimmy would like for him to appoint Kevin as Secretary of Treasury to replace Henry, and I told him, Shaker, he says, you just came from Rosenberg?
49:29I said, yep.
49:31I said, get back on the plane, and he went back, and that was both days.
49:35No way.
49:37And I offered it to Chesley in Chicago.
49:40Ray's a great guy, very, very close friend.
49:46He's a staunch St. Clairman.
49:47He killed me.
49:48He turned around with me, and he was going to take it, and then he turned me down.
49:54Then I put Flynn in.
49:56Now Flynn died.
49:58Hoffa advocated Gibbons again.
50:01He knew I was going to go with Gibbons.
50:03He started to advocate.
50:04I don't know if I heard enough.
50:07Faye Chesney.
50:09And he was calling all over the country.
50:11Jimmy Hoffa?
50:12Yeah.
50:13Well, then he is acting in the union again.
50:16Well, I mean, so... Is that a violation of what we said?
50:19So whenever he called around and he was saying this and that, and people would call me and say, do you think I'll call him?
50:25I mean, what's your favorite Chesney?
50:27And I just told them all, I'll make my determination.
50:33Really?
50:34Yeah.
50:35Well, I flew down to Miami, and Dusty had had his arm or shoulder operated on him in separation.
50:42I said, do you want this job under the conditions that we understand each other?
50:51He says, yes.
50:53That's Dusty Miller.
50:54He's our seven-minute conference.
50:56Oh, yes.
50:56He was the host for it.
50:59Now, there's only one thing as far as I'm concerned.
51:10He's selling people for one reason or the other.
51:15He's coming back in here in March, 73.
51:20His restrictions will be over and he's going to go to court with an approval.
51:25And he's going to come back into here.
51:29And he says, he had a commitment from me.
51:30Well, the commitment he had from me was on this basis everything that's understood.
51:38One of you folks was so gracious to allow him to go to visit his wife in San Francisco.
51:45And John told me, he said, no offense, he says, we're going to go in custody of his son.
51:54I know he won't.
51:56But he said, promise me one thing that he won't
51:59started another union convention or meeting while he was in a hotel with his son.
52:08So I got a son, Shanker, and I said, you're going to get this consideration for him to go out and marry Josephine.
52:15Josephine and I have been friends, well, I knew Josephine before he married her.
52:25And she's nice lady.
52:27And she feels so bad about this whole thing as anybody.
52:32And her illness was sincere.
52:34A lot of people tried to say that this was a phony bombing, but now she had a touch-up, a fever, and this was an electric shock.
52:46I had that when I was in Oxford.
52:48It was terrible.
52:49Four weeks.
52:49It leaves you very worried for years afterwards.
52:52She's still better, you know.
52:54Probably not.
52:56Yeah, it should be standing.
52:58She would be standing here talking to us right now.
53:02It's very unusual she should get it now, because you know unhealed fever comes from raw milk.
53:06Well, this was years ago.
53:09Years ago she had it.
53:10Then she left her, you know, green line deficiency.
53:11They call it malta fever, too.
53:13That's the other name for it.
53:15Malt is the common name of unhealed fever.
53:21Now, no matter whether she was in church, whether she was at your home, or their home, or even right here in the office, she would stand there talking just as normal as what we are now.
53:33Maybe something would excite her, and she would just completely blow the picture.
53:39Just fade away.
53:40She said this for years, but it kept on working on her heart, and she's in very bad health now.
53:47So,
53:50I told them they'd come back and they promised me that he won't visit anybody else.
53:55Now, as far as Joe Dibney or Iron Loan or somebody out there that's in that area, as far as they're concerned, well, hell, sure, they could drop in and have a bite to eat with them and visit with them, but let's keep it on that basis.
54:14Oh, yes, that's... Well, I went to Florida.
54:20And he went to San Francisco.
54:23I get to Florida, I get a call about 10.30 that night.
54:28Says, Fitz, you'll never know how much I appreciate you.
54:34I said, well, that's fine.
54:38And I said, remember what the restrictions are.
54:44Some of the people want to, I'm sure they'd like to, but just tell them that you
54:49I've got a responsibility if you give me a word.
54:52And this town looks very nice and so on and so on.
54:57Well, he says, can't you come out and see me?
55:02Well, I said, Jimmy, I figured I'd get my word, too.
55:04Yeah.
55:06And I says, I really have no business in San Francisco.
55:10I'm going to take care of it.
55:13Well, Jesus said, I must.
55:14You don't know what it means to me to joke with you.
55:16You don't even know where she's going to live.
55:20I said, all right.
55:23Seven o'clock the next morning, there's an airplane, shh, San Francisco.
55:30Walked from the lobby of the hotel, what on earth do you think I mean, right?
55:37The lobby of the hotel.
55:38Yes.
55:38Right.
55:38I walk from him, I walk over to the elevator, I see two other guys.
55:44One from New York.
55:45I go to Rome, and he's up there by himself.
55:46And his son's there.
55:50And when I walk in a row, here's Dusty Miller.
55:56Now, Dusty Miller's brother who lives in San Francisco, he was out there to his funeral.
56:03His brother died.
56:03He isn't out there to his funeral.
56:05He's seen the paper.
56:08And now, of course, I just walked in, sat down, and I says, good Christ, what the hell is the matter with you?
56:18Don't you understand?
56:19The people did you some favors.
56:24And I said, to be very frank with you, they didn't do it because of you.
56:27They did it because of the children.
56:31By your valley, every cobbler's a people puts in for you.
56:36And I said, you're sure as hell vallied my cobbler's, because I give my word about this.
56:44We got that settled, and we went over to the hospital, and Josie was in and out of a coma, and I was a little girl there about five minutes, and she was not normal, but she recognized me.
56:58We went back to the hotel, and we talked about the situation, and he said, I'm going to run for president of this internet community.
57:06I said, how about it?
57:09Let me just tell you one thing.
57:15I took this job.
57:16I took over the understanding.
57:20The view was clear.
57:22Then you came back at the end of the evening, took your job.
57:26You were all set.
57:28You were all set now.
57:31Now that happened.
57:34Previous to the convention.
57:37That's my understanding with you.
57:40We made that before we went away.
57:44But if you're still in prison, and you run for the president of this international union, then get yourself another boy to run for the general election president, to run this union.
57:55If you get elected, I can let you know.
57:57So I think that's where you're at.
58:00But if that's your only friend, you did this, it's important.
58:05I said, I'm going to be your friend for the rest of your life.
58:10I want you to be mine.
58:13We've got an organization.
58:17Since you've been away, I think this organization's prospered.
58:21I think the public came into this international event and asked to sell a million percent of Christ in membership to the general public.
58:35It doesn't have to pick up the favor every morning and see headlines, teamsters, gangsters, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
58:39I'm telling you, this is my position.
58:40I said, I'd like to think about that.
58:45And I said, do you think the M.R.S.
58:49awards are a concern?
58:55You don't need me.
58:58So it is that...
59:01came the time that we were getting closer to where he got consideration.
59:04He then was told that he either had to resign or call his position.
59:16And he did.
59:17I made my commitment to this country we live in, to our organization.
59:26I run this international union.
59:28I'm responsible for it.
59:31Well, you were elected without any conditions.
59:34Well, no conditions at all.
59:35The fact of the matter is... July.
59:37That's what I understood.
59:37There were no conditions.
59:39There were no conditions whatsoever.
59:41The only conditions is I changed that Constitution to make sure, you know, like you, as your captain, me with my captain, I have all the faith in the world, and my captain...
1:00:01as long as I got him sitting in front of me.
1:00:06So in changing our Constitution, I changed it to this extent, that if the office of the presidency becomes vacant, the first vice president takes over, and within 14 days, calls a meeting of the general executive board, and they
1:00:29are then given 60 days to call a convention and appoint somebody to direct the international community to the convention.
1:00:39But the replacement goes back to the membership as far as the convention for election.
1:00:46One more of the succession.
1:00:49Well, that's all done.
1:00:55Can I say this, uh, Kansas, I don't know if he's my friend, he'll be my friend, but do I need more of a help?
1:01:02Mm-hmm.
1:01:04What he is, Valley, is... Well, that gets out, actually, so it's very good.
1:01:15We'll get the bureau on that.
1:01:15I mean, it's a devastating lead-in.
1:01:17Rick, my name is Avery.
1:01:18Oh, what?
1:01:18Couldn't it be an energy clearing?
1:01:20Uh, Washington.
1:01:21We could, why don't you, we could talk about that.
1:01:24Any spatula of water, if there goes on, I mean, if there's any.
1:01:29Because basically it's going to hurt the union.
1:01:31That's the point.
1:01:32That's the point.
1:01:32It's going to hurt the union.
1:01:33The thing is that no matter how much you deny the stack of Bibles, I'd say Jimmy Hoffa behind the scenes is running the human.
1:01:39If he dabbles around in this thing, you can't let him do it then, Chuck.
1:01:42I'm not a damn thing.
1:01:43Not that I mean it.
1:01:45He said one thing, Mr. Christensen.
1:01:46Yeah, he may have done another, but I think that...
1:01:50That's not a very wise thing, putting his own name in the Secretary of Treasury.
1:01:55And then I tell the story.
1:01:56If I ask you the attitude of a General Membership, the Central States Conference with Jimmy was, Jimmy Alperstrom was internationally known.
1:02:04Now the Eastern Conference told Jimmy, from a mother's point of view, we don't want more of your leadership.
1:02:18You're a friend, you've been lucky internationally, and we'll help you do what we can, but stay out of our business.
1:02:25The Western Conference is the people that first openly endorsed me as the president of Missouri.
1:02:32That is California, Seattle, all the western states.
1:02:37The Southern Conference is Dusty Winter.
1:02:41I was in Tucson.
1:02:42I went into the center states here about a month ago.
1:02:46I made the same statement then as I said here.
1:02:48I want you to understand about my office.
1:02:53No power behind this strong.
1:02:54Never was, never will be.
1:02:55I'm the Executive Board of our International Union.
1:02:58And when people's calling you, and I know they've called people all over this country,
1:03:08People call you and tell you that Jimmy Hoffa has something to do with this International Union.
1:03:10For those of you that's here at the Central Conference, we had about 490 people.
1:03:14You'll take a message back direct to me, or from me.
1:03:18Hoffa is not coming back into this International Union.
1:03:28You said that to 400 people?
1:03:28Oh, yeah.
1:03:31How true is the, how is the truth, sir?
1:03:35We have a miscellaneous group, which numbers about 202 people at the Western Conference of Miscellaneous Children.
1:03:54And I told them the same thing.
1:03:55That's amazing, the reaction you get from these people.
1:03:57Not necessarily about, they don't want to be under that dictatorship again.
1:04:03But I also, I also test it out.
1:04:08I may as well tell you this when people have heard it.
1:04:12And I say, as far as this is not blowing smoke, as far as the administration, the president makes no sense.
1:04:22There's some things that the administration is doing and has done that I don't agree with.
1:04:28I get an opportunity, and I've had the opportunity in a few instances.
1:04:32I let my feelings be known.
1:04:35However, this is the illustration of the United States.
1:04:39When I use this, I say, you know, I would ask, who I'd rather see, the President of the United States or President Nixon, and I say, nobody.
1:04:49Because I said to myself, and I use that in the ring, that any man that had nothing customary to him, to contest for a job,
1:05:02But now he's a problem to the government, as the United States.
1:05:06And God bless him.
1:05:09Because he must have some personal fortitude that he wants to do something.
1:05:11Now, he says everything he's done, he's not necessarily done everything the right way.
1:05:18But he's just as human as anybody else.
1:05:23But there is one thing he has done.
1:05:24He has tried to do something.
1:05:27And it's been successful in a hell of a lot of ways.
1:05:32There's a few mistakes he's made, but all you've got to do is look in the mirror.
1:05:37And you're in the same category.
1:05:40I showed the President Vinson speech in the newspaper.
1:05:43It was a speech in Seattle, which is about as relevant a partisan speech as any of our spokesmen can get.
1:05:50Well, he said, oh, you know, I don't have this public statement yet.
1:05:54I said, well, Jesus, what is your position?
1:06:01Well, as far as my position is concerned, I'm not endorsing any campaign for the rest of the United States right now.
1:06:09But I can tell you, I wholeheartedly agree and support Nixon's policies.
1:06:16Well, the message is getting through the teachers.
1:06:19I'm sure you know.
1:06:20I get it back from Ohio.
1:06:21Oh, you get it back from all over.
1:06:22Chuck, people came to me, just two of me and two sons.
1:06:26Now, there's weapons to this.
1:06:27This is the Western States.
1:06:28Lee Kennedy got up, he was the chairman of this group, and he says, of course I can't let Mr. President tell us, and Mr. President, we would like to be out of the poll.
1:06:43I met them in the morning, and two of you, we had the other meeting there.
1:06:49He says, after your speech, he says, Monday, I want you to know that this group
1:06:59endorses your position for president.
1:07:07Now this is the, now we're talking about a broad specter of miscellaneous students.
1:07:18Now this is where we're at.
1:07:23I'm sure that the people of East, for instance, this is the most amazing thing that I've seen.
1:07:27You've been to New York.
1:07:30You know, of course you have one great advocate in New York, and that's Lindsey.
1:07:39I think we could, uh, Rob Mayo, or, or some of the ultra-presidents, I think they'd vote for them rather than vote for Lindsey, especially in New York.
1:07:52But, of course, there's Rubo.
1:07:53Rob, he's done a great job up there.
1:07:57Yeah, he's worked for us.
1:07:59He's our friend.
1:08:00Yeah, I know.
1:08:01Yes, he's our friend.
1:08:03And the attitude of the people in the East surprised me.
1:08:05Surprised me no less.
1:08:05I think the advocate we had was, they said, there's nothing in the lecture in the East, though, as much to put you on, as much as John Mitchell could do on the cartoon campaign.
1:08:21So just let's keep in right there.
1:08:27Right.
1:08:28Great track.
1:08:29Let me ask you a couple, but no, I want to ask one other thing.
1:08:39Give me your advice on what we, on Ms. Doffman, if you talk to Joe about this.
1:08:45Talk to him about it?
1:08:47I think I need to know.
1:08:51Well, you're fooling with something that I just can't quite fully comprehend at the moment.
1:08:57Eric Bridges knows in his heart that he's got a good deal.
1:08:59Yeah.
1:08:59Gosh.
1:09:00He and Gleason was very completely over on this guy.
1:09:08And he don't know what to do about it.
1:09:13What happened?
1:09:15I mean, Gleason's the east coast folk.
1:09:17Gleason has told this guy, there's no doubt in my mind, that the guy's such a huge .
1:09:26Some weeks ago, when I went over to New York and made that speech before Ted Kiel's house over there, was the day that Clayston agreed with him on this.
1:09:40It was the day that Lester Bridges was coming to the end of his rope.
1:09:50The day before that, Bridges was in my office and said he had a firm, arm-clad commitment that Gleason was going to support me.
1:10:00I couldn't believe it.
1:10:00Two at lunch, I made my speech.
1:10:03I ran into Johnny Barge, which is Gleason's second-in-command general.
1:10:05He said, say, Johnny,
1:10:11Harry Bridges was in my office yesterday, and he said he'd got an arm cut in the air today.
1:10:24He says, Vince, we need you to support this little individual.
1:10:27And I said, where's Gleason?
1:10:31He said, there's a great little Gleason.
1:10:32He says, Gleason went for England last night.
1:10:35Now, they pushed this guy, Bridges.
1:10:36We got into the discussion about the murder.
1:10:39I gave letters, full understanding.
1:10:46He said, well, I just want to stay in the payroll for another year.
1:10:49He said, I don't know.
1:10:52I'm worried about being in the payroll.
1:10:55And I said, we'll give you an honorary degree as far as some recognition is concerned.
1:10:59But you can't be on the executive board.
1:11:01I said to your man, Bill Chester,
1:11:13And he's the only man in the organization, the only man that will say, well, it's raining outside and you don't have to go to work.
1:11:29And I said, we can do something for one or two other options.
1:11:33That's all.
1:11:35Now,
1:11:37Tom's with his case coming before the board.
1:11:38I told him, I said, Harry, I want you to understand one thing.
1:11:40You're not entitled to a damn bit more than the other union.
1:11:44You sold your birthright six years ago, whenever you agreed to the mechanical half and so forth.
1:11:48That should have been some very eventual thing.
1:11:53Now, when you're facing reality, you want to take our work away from you.
1:12:03I said, I offered arbitrary money.
1:12:08You don't want to do that.
1:12:10I've got to be very frank with you.
1:12:13You're not taking one job away from us.
1:12:16You've got 15,000 on the West Coast.
1:12:20You take one job, we'll eat your life.
1:12:21I don't care what the board says or anybody else.
1:12:29Where do I go?
1:12:30I says, you do what I told you.
1:12:31You come in and you'll play with us and then we can...
1:12:35And I just then wrote the thing.
1:12:36When did this conversation take place?
1:12:40Oh, this was two weeks before he went to the pay board.
1:12:44Okay.
1:12:47So I said, now on your pay board, days before the pay board, you come in with the strongest, and you tell this guy Flynn out there.
1:12:56And I told him this.
1:12:57I told Flynn this myself.
1:12:59Jim Reynolds brought him in to meet me.
1:13:02The only basic argument you've got is productivity.
1:13:08You're entitled to 5.5% increase, you're entitled to another 1.5% for inequities, and maybe another percent or two if you can show a strong productivity factor.
1:13:22The only way to win this thing, the only way to get consideration, the person gonna pay for it might give you 20.9%
1:13:31We, the laborers.
1:13:32How the hell do we ask for the rest of the unions in this country?
1:13:41Who are you?
1:13:42You're old people.
1:13:43No.
1:13:43Well, I just sat there and sold it.
1:13:48The newspaper advertising was insane.
1:13:52That's my question.
1:13:53Backed by the FLCIO.
1:13:56So, they came in.
1:14:00The result of it is, as you know, we had a record 80% increase, which is pretty good.
1:14:04Harry came in to see me, but they had two days after the story blocked out.
1:14:09Him, Chuck Nelson, and Bob Chester, they came into my office, and Harry said, well, don't you think I'm all right yet?
1:14:32I just don't remember how or not he went on to this thing and he said, you know, it's an adventure to secure your position.
1:14:39But he considered your position pretty good.
1:14:41I have to go through the leadership of the community and the town and the membership.
1:14:48And his reaction as far as all organized labor is concerned.
1:14:54He kept on going about that one.
1:14:59And I looked down and I says, Gary, if you are giving me a message
1:15:03Go back and tell Meathead, I've already made my determination.
1:15:10I can't understand you being you with the war.
1:15:16Here's a guy that would spit on you as quick as anybody.
1:15:21If you ever think that you're going to get back to the Air Force CIO, and if you forgot, no matter what you do, you could take a bath and lie with her.
1:15:33I'll never wipe away that statement that you had of Harry Bridges as the top communist in the United States.
1:15:40He jerked back, you know.
1:15:42He said, but of course you proved that.
1:15:44I says, well, sometimes the courts don't always write either.
1:15:49And I says, you go back and tell them.
1:15:52That's exactly what I said.
1:15:54And I enjoyed being an owner.
1:15:56I've been an owner all my life.
1:15:59I said, when they threw us out of the AFL-CIO,
1:16:02They did it.
1:16:03We didn't do it.
1:16:04They did it.
1:16:07And I'm more convinced now that as far as me putting my welfare in the hands of them other fellows on that executive board as George Meany, that I'd be selling my soul and the love of the soul of everyone around me.
1:16:28I said, well, Frank, don't be mad at me.
1:16:30I said, I'm not getting mad at you.
1:16:31I just want you to deliver mine.
1:16:32I said, it's the same as you're giving me his.
1:16:37I said, you know, Meany and my friend Woodcock, I don't necessarily hold it against Red Smith and Hayden, but hell, they're captives of Meany.
1:16:50Meany and Woodcock.
1:16:51Now, the first notification I had of this was Monday morning.
1:16:59He called me and said, Frank, we're having a meeting at the council Wednesday, and he said, I want you over there.
1:17:05I said, I'm not coming.
1:17:06He said, what?
1:17:08I said, I'm not coming.
1:17:13Well, what's the matter?
1:17:17He said, we're having a meeting at the council.
1:17:18I said, I'm no voice to vote in your council.
1:17:20I really thought we had to try to advocate some more different bridges to go and strike.
1:17:29But it all became real.
1:17:31There's only one union conveniently supported along the shoreline, and that's Keenster.
1:17:39They said the leading garment worker, the cement finisher, the glass bottle blowers.
1:17:44What the hell is the poor dude?
1:17:47I can support anybody if I don't have to be actively engaged, you know.
1:17:52So I said, I'm not coming.
1:17:54Well, he said, send somebody over.
1:17:55I said, no, no.
1:17:58I thought we had an interest over there.
1:17:59I said, well, I'll be there.
1:18:02You're not going to lose me and my identity.
1:18:05You have 40 clowns sitting around that table.
1:18:11You say it's black, and they say it's black, but it could be fake.
1:18:15And you come out and advertise you did before.
1:18:18The council unanimously did this.
1:18:20But you don't say anything about me.
1:18:23I'd rather go out and fight like that.
1:18:24Well, I don't know.
1:18:26You leave me standing.
1:18:29Either I go with your counsel or I'm catching the next train to Philadelphia.
1:18:36So he calls up Wednesday after they made their famous decision.
1:18:42Right.
1:18:43You know what we did?
1:18:47I said, no idea.
1:18:51We called you back, but he says, to quit the pay war.
1:18:54I said, well, what do you feel?
1:18:57I said, what are you going to do?
1:18:58He said, I'm going to stay on the board.
1:19:05I said, I don't think the president's going to fire me, but if he don't want me on the board, he can tell me.
1:19:10Well, what's the matter?
1:19:11He says, well, I said, George, did we make a commitment over in the Oval Office?
1:19:20I said, forget the other thing, how it got that far.
1:19:23The day we were sworn in on the paperwork, did we ever play
1:19:27playing to us by Father Schultz's hand.
1:19:33We had our option then, saying yes or no.
1:19:36Then we all stand up.
1:19:38Yeah.
1:19:39I said, what the hell gives you the right now to walk up to me?
1:19:44I said, I told your man to go.
1:19:46I tried to tell you that you were sick.
1:19:49However, we had this little discussion about not being satisfied, and he had to arrest the board.
1:19:56And that's kind of the bullshit.
1:19:57Let's not argue with both.
1:20:00Let's not argue with Conley and Rumsfeld.
1:20:04You don't think you're treated right?
1:20:06Let's go to the president.
1:20:08He's the guy who set the board.
1:20:11Let's tell him our beefs.
1:20:18Well, he said, do you want to mess with us?
1:20:19I said, the hell you want to mess with us.
1:20:22He's the guy that made us.
1:20:25He's the guy that we should.
1:20:27We should try to resolve them before we get there.
1:20:29If we can't resolve them, well, let's ask for a meeting with them.
1:20:33And that's the way it is, and that's the way it's set.
1:20:41Of course, that's the second red of the world, isn't it?
1:20:44Uh-huh.
1:20:46Really got to go through.
1:20:47Can you keep, do you think you can, you'll keep in touch with this team?
1:20:54I mean, this...
1:20:56Why don't they make this deal?
1:21:05It would be a good thing for them.
1:21:09They ought to belong to it.
1:21:10Wouldn't it be a good thing, George, for them to be the long-term sticking out that sort of thing?
1:21:15Well, they're going to be much better as members of a powerful union.
1:21:24You know what I mean?
1:21:26Wouldn't you think so?
1:21:30The way the organization and technology of the docks are progressing is practically continuous with what delivers to the docks.
1:21:38That's right.
1:21:40That's right.
1:21:41You see, the thing was containerization.
1:21:48Now before the truck conveyance would bring the freight here to the ship side here,
1:21:55Now, what had happened, the truck would come here.
1:21:59They would unload the truck, or either on what they call the skin of the dock, which is the paddle.
1:22:06And then the sling would come off the ship, or the crane would pick it up and put it down the hold of the ship.
1:22:15Now, six years ago, when Bridges agreed for containerization,
1:22:25And what happens now is that containerization comes.
1:22:30They send a container out to Colson Manufacture or Schultz Distributing Company or Fitzsimmons Baseball, that company.
1:22:39We load the container.
1:22:41They bring in the truck.
1:22:44They put the ship aboard ship.
1:22:47Harry's lost this work that he used to do here.
1:22:51Now there is minimum shipments gathered.
1:22:58And some of the truck docks, some of the institutions, they bring this miscellaneous fridge, you know, there may be a hundred shillings or a thousand shillings.
1:23:07And they stuff the container there.
1:23:10Bridges says, that's my work.
1:23:13Well, hell, it might be seven miles away from the water treatment plant.
1:23:19I see.
1:23:20That's how the jurisdictional thing is.
1:23:23We're going to put your people off that job.
1:23:26Now he agreed to say that the police would go on, charge them people a dollar a ton, you know, to pay into their guaranteed money.
1:23:38Sooner or later, somebody's going to take that to court.
1:23:46And this is another form of affilivating, another form of paying for work not performed, you see.
1:23:54That just depends on the attitude of the court and what they find.
1:23:58But that don't answer his problem.
1:23:59It just makes him a weaker position on arguing for the work.
1:24:04Now, we'll merge.
1:24:06What we can do is take the work.
1:24:09And his people will fit in with our unions at these places that are doing this containerization.
1:24:15And nobody will get lost.
1:24:17Well, Bridges wants his executive board.
1:24:20Torpedoed, isn't that what happened before?
1:24:23Well, they torpedoed it.
1:24:24They torpedoed the situation because some of his own board, which he calls Cognizant.
1:24:30Ha ha!
1:24:31The radicals.
1:24:32Ha ha!
1:24:33I told you that story, what he said, didn't I?
1:24:35Yeah, you told me.
1:24:36I said, well, what the hell is Cognizant's executive board?
1:24:38He said, Frank, he said, they're all Cognizant.
1:24:42I better fall off my chair.
1:24:44Ha ha ha!
1:24:45Yeah, yeah.
1:24:47This is eventually going to have to be worked out.
1:24:50I think that's the answer.
1:24:52I don't think that Bridges himself has got enough stomach to call that strike.
1:24:59I don't think his people wants to go on this train.
1:25:03And he knows he can settle this here 15% settlement.
1:25:08that he wanted to sign an agreement.
1:25:10That's my question.
1:25:12I think it's a crazy question to ask those people.
1:25:14Let me just say one thing that you should have in the back of your mind.
1:25:19I've got to look at the congressional leadership on both sides and talk to them.
1:25:27And if there is one in the query department, and we do, the Congress is going to move on that.
1:25:37just as sure as the shooting.
1:25:41Now, whether that kind of a move should take place in the election year, I don't think that it may not be the best time for that sort of thing to happen.
1:25:47You know what I mean?
1:25:48The tenders would be so high.
1:25:50But my view is that Judge Bridges had really asked for trouble.
1:25:54You were there at the meeting.
1:25:56They all said, you know, and these are guys that are not anti-Labor.
1:26:00That's the worst of them.
1:26:02One of them was on the Labor Committee.
1:26:04One of the things I was going to say was my last remark.
1:26:09This sounds like a sign of grace.
1:26:10I tried to get along with him.
1:26:13I think I got along with him better than anybody he'd teached him at all.
1:26:17But that's how I talked up to him.
1:26:19I talked up to him, and I respect him.
1:26:21So do I.
1:26:24This is the thing that I have been trying and wrestling with myself.
1:26:30I have made some reference to it.
1:26:34about the other stock and trade that Meany is using.
1:26:41He said, I'll come off the pay board.
1:26:45Meany told him, they asked him, well, what do we do now with our problems as far as the pay board is concerned?
1:26:52We don't give them consideration.
1:26:53He said, I'm running your union.
1:26:56Which only means the top.
1:26:59As he said originally, he said, you'll have a lot of strikes.
1:27:03You'll have a lot of strikes.
1:27:05You're just faxing this here legislation in the Congress.
1:27:13And I strike legislation.
1:27:14You're off-status fax.
1:27:18You're the guy who's going to take the burden, sir.
1:27:23Not these fellows over here that'll vote for you.
1:27:30Idiot.
1:27:31Now this is Mr. Maines.
1:27:34and he don't care, but George Meade, he does care.
1:27:37He wants to always be recognized.
1:27:39But George Meade is no different than John Lewis.
1:27:52No different than John Lewis.
1:27:57Can't rule or destroy.
1:28:02Absolutely.
1:28:03How long has he been there?
1:28:05Well, what do you think this dirty old bastard did to me?
1:28:07To his son?
1:28:08Well, I work in Columbia.
1:28:08I advocate against my membership in Columbia.
1:28:11Is that right?
1:28:15When was that?
1:28:16You came to Columbia Country Club?
1:28:19Aren't you in Columbia?
1:28:21Well, I suppose I act on my application.
1:28:24Look, I'm a member of Columbia Country Club.
1:28:31You've got, what I'm interested in, I've been in it for three years now, and I'm actually honored.
1:28:40But by golly, it's damn ridiculous.
1:28:44You ever play that club, George?
1:28:45I've played it a couple times.
1:28:48It's fun.
1:28:48Particularly, that first hole, I haven't played it for 10 years.
1:28:51But you go across that.
1:28:53If I get to help with golf again, I'll give you and George Shultz another head game.
1:28:56And Mitch, how's that?
1:28:57Wonderful.
1:28:59In the meantime, I've got a couple of trinkets for you.
1:29:02Since you're still on the pay board, this is a money club with a presidential seal on it.
1:29:12And for your wife, this is a small thing.
1:29:14It's not much, but this is a presidential ashtray.
1:29:18It's made by a union laborer, but carried in an army truck.
1:29:28Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.
1:29:31You're going to get more of me.
1:29:42Here we go.
1:29:47Here we go.
1:30:02I was at that stage where his game is much better than his handicap.
1:30:10Ah!
1:30:11I went to the park.
1:30:14I don't want to be against him.
1:30:27here out the edge of the porch.
1:30:30Not once, but about three times.
1:30:36Just like a little old trained pig, right up there at the sink.
1:30:41You tell the story about me.
1:30:43Well, he's great.
1:30:44I just don't know who paid off at the end of the thing.
1:30:47He's never out here.
1:30:49He must be playing golf.
1:30:51Well, I appreciate you coming in.
1:30:54And let me say that, incidentally, the thing about you, which really distinguishes you from some of your colleagues, is this, that you let Chuck know, or George, or either one of you,
1:31:08But I'd like to keep in contact, but you've got to ask, you know what I mean?
1:31:12Sometimes I may think of it, but you know what I mean?
1:31:14If you think there's something we should talk about, come in here.
1:31:18Do you understand?
1:31:19If you will, because I think we need your help.
1:31:23We hope your help is in time.
1:31:26All right.
1:31:27Thank you.
1:31:28Thank you for that point.
1:31:30Appreciate it.

Nixon, Kissinger & Fitzsimmons on Labor Unions and Teamsters

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