Nixon, Shultz & Sanchez on Office of Economic Opportunity

1:33:12Hi, come right in, come right in.
1:33:15George just left, I thought.
1:33:19Let me say something before we get into the other business.
1:33:47The president of Mexico is coming in 2015.
1:33:49Do you know that?
1:33:50No.
1:33:50And he is a state president.
1:33:54And naturally, it's our government.
1:33:56You know, Spanish should be in the administration if we want it.
1:34:29I remember the dinner in San Diego.
1:34:34Yeah, that was for the other person.
1:34:47Yeah, that was Francis.
1:34:50Francis was very quick.
1:34:58I just mentioned to him about the president of the Rose House.
1:35:08Anyway, I mentioned to him the president of Mexico, and Rose makes up his guest list.
1:35:21But if he would give
1:35:24You, I told him to get in touch with you if you have, you know, few people that would mean something to the community around the country or here, you know.
1:35:35We have room.
1:35:36But you know, if you've got just some names that you can throw into the pot, then we'll see whether we can work them in, okay?
1:35:46You think about it.
1:35:47We ask things, for example, but you'll know that there's some people helping you with your work, maybe somebody on our committee or something of that sort.
1:35:56Especially from around the country, because it's such a thrill to come in.
1:35:59Yeah, and they'd like to, but they'd have to be able to afford it in our respect.
1:36:03But around the country, you've got some people I...
1:36:06Would you speak up?
1:36:07Would you do that?
1:36:08And you should get a hand within a week.
1:36:11Well, so... Oh, yeah.
1:36:12A month.
1:36:13A month.
1:36:13Now, this is June 15th.
1:36:15I'd say the 1st of May.
1:36:16You've got a month, which is an answer to get a hand.
1:36:19Everybody else is getting a hand, too.
1:36:24And she has to bear it down to 200.
1:36:27Then everybody gets it.
1:36:29All right.
1:36:31Okay, Rose, thank you.
1:36:33Well, I wanted to tell you that we've been very impressed over here with George's get-me-posted and, of course, your predecessor.
1:36:43And the way you handled yourself in the committee and the fact that you've got, of course, a pretty, pretty high argument to handle now.
1:36:50The fact that you have a constituency that is sometimes difficult and also a bureaucracy that is difficult.
1:36:59I think you should also know that
1:37:02that I agree with, and so I'm impressed by the thing that we want to think about you and George, who endorses this for other purposes as we complete this operation.
1:37:19When I say complete, I mean I don't mean to wind it up, but basically we like to watch the guys around here that do a good job, just like you.
1:37:30That's what we do.
1:37:31Am I overstating the charge?
1:37:32No, he very much comes to the White Fellows, who argues his points and decisions get made, and then he comes right in behind and works together with us.
1:37:46As I say, I know it because of the fact, you know, that after all it was a program from the previous administration,
1:38:00There were a lot of problems.
1:38:02There's a lot of jackass stuff that should be cleared up.
1:38:09And so your state's a good, strong, strong man.
1:38:15And so under the circumstances, we did good work and had in mind that we needed
1:38:30would like to conclude, and if you're able, would like to make a deal in terms of our future minds.
1:38:39But now let's get into your present problems.
1:38:41I don't see much on this one.
1:38:42Let's start with research and development.
1:38:46That's a very good thing.
1:38:47It's not a character.
1:38:47Even I thought it was going to be active sanctions.
1:38:49Hmm.
1:38:54Is that thing still stuck, isn't it?
1:38:55Unbelievable.
1:38:59We've started to find out about the legislation situation.
1:39:03Why don't you tell us about that?
1:39:05Yeah, you go ahead.
1:39:06Well, I guess it's just a problem of perception.
1:39:12It's also about the country's meeting with the press people.
1:39:18I tried to clean up their questions, that which I think they're harboring in their mind.
1:39:27And I really think we're making some headway in terms of changing some perception, I think, that's been injured for too long with regard to what we in this administration are trying to do for poor people, and specifically with the bill.
1:39:41I had a lunch meeting today with about five syndicated colleagues, background for lunch meetings.
1:39:48And I tried to recall the line points because it told me several things.
1:39:54I think a lot of them have a misconception of why the deal was vetoed.
1:39:59I think this is our job to take care of the .
1:40:07As brief as I can, I think I should report to you, Mr. President, that as we travel about the countryside, just going into the lion's den, the perceptions are changing.
1:40:21People realize that we are trying to do something.
1:40:26Our image as an administration needs a lot of improvement with regard to what they think we're trying to do with and for poor people.
1:40:33But, you know, nothing we're doing is easy.
1:40:37The only thing that gives me heart is that we do not run into complete brick walls we are making in Ruth.
1:40:44Frankly, I shouldn't tell you this, but I'm pleasantly surprised at the ease with which we are making in Ruth into the Spanish-speaking community.
1:40:52There was an uptick completely captivated by the party, I mean completely, including friends, neighbors, and so forth.
1:41:01And we are just making headway through the personal approach by just wandering into them and letting them throw rocks at what they're going to, but it hasn't turned out that way to be good.
1:41:11I think that...
1:41:15I have scheduled, and I have them practically all behind me now, about 39 different talks, appearances, wandering into the barrios, speaking in Spanish to people, convincing them that we're not just here as Uncle Tommy thinks we really want to do something then.
1:41:31it's very good very good
1:41:47The one thing that I just would just like to leave with you.
1:41:51It's definitely one thing that, I mean, may I interrupt you?
1:41:53One thing about our busking thing, as you've noticed, which I hope you will, that various people have noticed, is that, you know, the Equal Educational Opportunities Act, we've written in the law the right to bilingual education and all that.
1:42:06Now, that's a very important point, and that's better than it is in the law, you know.
1:42:10I mean, this is, we've regarded it as a right.
1:42:13Right.
1:42:14That's not exactly a program.
1:42:16You know, we've got to have all the half-assed programs, all the administration.
1:42:19I'll give you a little money here.
1:42:20But this is the right of every American to have a Bible education.
1:42:25And so we include, and we do get these people to over there very strongly.
1:42:28We included this in that, too.
1:42:30Is that right, George?
1:42:32We wrote it in the last day.
1:42:33I'm sorry.
1:42:34That's going to be very helpful to me, by the way.
1:42:37I knew you was part of it.
1:42:38I knew both of us would be part of it.
1:42:44Well, this is the ammunition that you've given me.
1:42:47But that plus your, of course, your Indian message, the rationale that has been published with regard to the Department of Community Development, the rationale behind revenue sharing,
1:43:12and the statement she made at the opening session of the Cabinet Committee on Opportunities for Transition, plus some very firm and specific initiatives recently taken with regard to the Regional Council through Mr. Finch's office.
1:43:28These are things one cannot refute.
1:43:30If they attempt to refute them, I can work with you.
1:43:32These have been very, very helpful.
1:43:36I think what I would like to know, and I guess in a way you've answered that,
1:43:42whether or not I have, in fact, been carrying the doctrine and the line, and whether or not I'm off base.
1:43:49So I better be told to pass, because we're moving past the period.
1:43:54Well, let me just be sure that I understand.
1:43:58As far as I understand, we think you see.
1:44:02You did an awfully good job in a very tough position.
1:44:04That's right.
1:44:05And you are doing the right thing and so forth.
1:44:08We have a problem.
1:44:09I'm being very practical.
1:44:10Listen, let's face it.
1:44:12Our democratic friends run all over the country making these horribly irresponsible promises.
1:44:18You know, and they can be for everything.
1:44:20They don't give a darn about the budget or all that other sort of thing or other problems.
1:44:25And they can say, well, the administration, whatever we offer, we have family assistance to offer just as much.
1:44:30They say we should double it.
1:44:31For example, we, they could go out to this group that marched around the White House the other day and say, sure, every family should afford to have $65 million.
1:44:41Probably that isn't enough.
1:44:42I don't know how a family of four in New York City can deliver $6,500 a year.
1:44:45I really don't.
1:44:46I mean, that miserable place, you know, and all that.
1:44:49But they must.
1:44:50But my point is, we can't say that.
1:44:53We can't say to be responsible because we know we couldn't deliver on it.
1:44:56No way.
1:44:58So on the one hand, you've got a very tough thing to say because you can't go out and tell people, look, kids, we'll give you more than the other side.
1:45:05We can't do that.
1:45:06But we can say, look, we'll keep our promises.
1:45:09We'll do things.
1:45:11That, and we do care.
1:45:14The real problem, politically, you've got to, you had to run for office, or did you run for Congress?
1:45:21I ran for Congress.
1:45:23But anyway, the one problem you have as a political man, as you know, is that when the other guy can go out and rage you, I mean, you can't win the game.
1:45:35The only way you can really combat the other fall is to say,
1:45:40It's not to try to raise him, but you've got to say, well, look, he's a fine.
1:45:45He's making a promise he can't keep.
1:45:47But we keep our word.
1:45:49And
1:45:49Above everything else, I think the important thing is to say we really care, which we do.
1:45:54I mean, God, if this country could afford 65 million bucks a year, I would be for it a thousand percent.
1:46:01So would you.
1:46:02But you know, we have made a good dollar.
1:46:04We've left it all.
1:46:05And so it is in some of these other programs.
1:46:08Now, some of them fall stoppically.
1:46:10I didn't have them.
1:46:12Like you say, the daycare, job care, and so forth and so on.
1:46:18I am for it in terms of, you know, they help the people so that working mothers and so forth and so on and so on.
1:46:27But as a general principle, I do not like the idea, and many people disagree with me on this, even within the administration.
1:46:35I do not like the idea of breaking up a family and taking kids, whether they are parent folks needed or not, and carting them off to a daycare center.
1:46:46You know what I mean?
1:46:48I mean, to be, if needed, yes.
1:46:50If not needed, that's something else again.
1:46:53It's a matter of choice.
1:46:54But that's a kind of philosophical thing.
1:46:57But if the one thing that I would hope you could convey is that we do care, and that we're honest.
1:47:04We'll never make a promise we can't keep.
1:47:07And also, in those connections, that caring also means, while this is a hard thing to do, it means protecting the value of their dollars.
1:47:19Not having prices go up, not having taxes go up, because you know, a lot of these folks, they may not care much about taxes, because most of the people you deal with don't pay much taxes, but they care about prices.
1:47:32And prices will go up if the government spends too much more than it takes in.
1:47:38That's really, I'm oversimplifying, because you as a politician will see this.
1:47:42But nevertheless, that's what you've got to get across.
1:47:45Now, whether that bill of goods can be sold, I don't know.
1:47:48I don't know, because I can imagine people in these, say, American community or Puerto Rican community or Negro community, and here you see all those people, you know, they're poor, and a lot of them don't have jobs, and they're unemployed, and a lot of them don't have much education, or maybe have too damn much education.
1:48:10Either way is bad.
1:48:12So what happens is that you have a very difficult, it's hard to stop,
1:48:18But I think you can sell it, provided you've got great conviction, total honesty, and great heart.
1:48:26In other words, that's our problem here.
1:48:30Now, George is able to do it quite well.
1:48:32I think Richardson gets it across, don't you?
1:48:35Richardson knows that we can't out-promise the other side here.
1:48:39But he has heart.
1:48:40He's actually got it.
1:48:41You have heart.
1:48:42George has got it.
1:48:42I'm not supposed to have heart.
1:48:47The main thing is we do care, we are honest, and we do produce.
1:48:53That's the point.
1:48:54We do produce.
1:48:55And we're doing things that other people have talked about.
1:48:59And I think about all these great society programs.
1:49:01So many of them, you know, were just a damn bunch of promises, right?
1:49:04OEL itself, I think, started out in that way.
1:49:07Too much promise.
1:49:08And now, that's why we're moving into these experimental views.
1:49:11And if they were...
1:49:13in comes the dough but we've got to try them first we should get out there you know and put ourselves don't you believe that it does make sense to do some experimenting in a new program in some of these fields that have been untried before you just flood here with a lot of dough
1:49:41And now with that, the director was becoming another bureaucratic leader, running more programs, running more programs, and never having a chance to do something meaningful in terms of experimentation.
1:49:51That's part of it.
1:49:52But I just wanted to make sure that that was consistent.
1:49:57Well, we've found Phil very good to work with, Mr. President.
1:50:05And I think one of the...
1:50:08Good things here just haven't been a direct communication here.
1:50:12We've had Frank Carucci in the OMB and Don Rumsfeld here.
1:50:16He's been a pleasure to me.
1:50:18And so we just want to be sure that he's... Well, I also want you to be able to tell the people you talk to that you've talked to me, not just in meetings, but that we've had a chat.
1:50:34And when you've got something you have to do, you can get in.
1:50:36It's down to you talking to George, you're talking to me.
1:50:39Order early, believe me.
1:50:41We take a hard look at you.
1:50:44But if you feel very strongly an issue, you let me know.
1:50:48The other thing is that I think you, thank you very much, that we want you here not because of the fact that you do have a...
1:51:16But we don't have you here just as our house Spanish-speaking job.
1:51:20We have you here because we believe you're a good man for this job.
1:51:26And that's our test up and down the line.
1:51:28Now, we want to go out.
1:51:29We want more, however.
1:51:31And you've got to tell young guys, young doctors, lawyers, kids in school, and so forth and so on, that they can go to the top, that we're searching for.
1:51:40I've told women, we've told blacks this, that
1:51:46But in the case of what I would say, particularly the Mexican community, there just aren't enough of them, you know, that one that first have quality and desire and will push.
1:52:07just that we want to name confidence around it.
1:52:11But when we get a good confidence, we want people to think of you in that way.
1:52:16And I want you to tell the folks that, if you will, that's the way to deal with it.
1:52:19That's the kind of people we're looking for.
1:52:23Thanks very much for your time.
1:52:25And also give your, maybe tell your staff over there, we appreciate their work and their long hours and everything.
1:52:33We do so much.
1:52:35Good to see you.
1:52:37How about Carol, Secretary?
1:53:09Manolo is Spanish?
1:53:10Yes, sir.
1:53:11We do want to get him very good.
1:53:13Very nice Spanish, but they might offer him a chance to practice it.
1:53:17Manolo, does he know any of your swear words?
1:53:21Why are we not talking about that?
1:53:23Spanish swear words are terrible.
1:53:26Yes, indeed.
1:53:26I've read Roboso, you know, of course, who speaks his Spanish very well.
1:53:34And Manolo, I was just saying Roboso.
1:53:37He knows lots of bad words, doesn't he?
1:53:40Yes, sir.
1:53:41Why don't you let all the press know?
1:53:43Go ahead.
1:53:44Well, he's basically, I've probably heard of this man.
1:53:47He comes from a very poor part of Spain.
1:53:50Good.
1:53:52I should have given you a backhand.
1:54:04Well, we're glad to have you with us, Phil.
1:54:06Thank you.
1:54:07And you'll come to that dinner.

Nixon, Shultz & Sanchez on Office of Economic Opportunity

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Also recorded on March 30, 1972

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