{"conversationCode":"698-008","tapeNumber":698,"conversationNumber":8,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-698-008","startDateTime":"1972-03-30T22:18:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-03-30T22:30:00.000Z","startDate":"30-Mar-1972","startTime":"5:18 PM","endDate":"30-Mar-1972","endTime":"5:30 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.; [Unknown person(s)]; Sanchez, Manolo;","description":"On March 30, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, unknown person(s), and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House from 5:18 pm to 5:30 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 698-008 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"OVAL","recordingDevice":"Oval Office","latitudeEstimated":38.8974,"longitudeEstimated":-77.0374,"chronCode":3,"chronRelease":"Third Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"28-Feb-2002","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 698-8\n\nDate: March 30, 1972\nTime: 5:18 pm - 5:30 pm\nLocation: Oval Office\n\nThe President met with Henry A. Kissinger; the conversation began in progress.\n\n     Vietnam\n          -Democrats\n              -Negotiations\n\n**********************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1\n[Personal Returnable]\n[Duration: 2m 41s ]\n\nAn unknown man entered at an unknown time after 5:18 pm.\n\nManolo Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 5:18 pm.\n\nThe unknown man and Sanchez left at an unknown time before 5:30 pm.\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1\n\n**********************************************************************\n\n     Columbia Broadcasting System [CBS]\n         -Interview with Kissinger\n               -Timing\n                    -Audience\n                         -Campared to George Putnam's show\n\n     Soviet trip\n          -Poland\n                 -Stopover\n          -Possible itinerary\n                 -Baku to Iran\n                 -Iran to Warsaw\n                       -Arrival ceremony\n                            -Crowds\n                       -Departure time\n                 -Washington, D.C.\n          -Poland\n                 -Stopover\n                       -Public reception\n\n                              -Campared to Spain\n                              -Compared to Romania\n                              -The President’s reception in Warsaw while Vice President\n                   -Poles\n                        -Reaction to the President's visit\n           -Iran\n                -Reception\n           -Warsaw reception\n           -Soviet reaction\n           -Kissinger's meeting with Anatoliy F. Dobrynin\n                -Accommodations\n                      -Kremlin\n                            -Leonid I. Brezhnev\n                            -Soviet reaction\n           -Public expectations for Moscow summit\n                -Strategic Arms Limitations Talks [SALT]\n                      -Gerard C. Smith\n                      -Kissinger's talk with Dobyrnin\n\n     Middle East\n         -Interim settlement\n         -Final settlement\n         -Kissinger's schedule\n               -Trips\n                     -Middle East\n                     -The People's Republic of China [PRC]\n                     -Soviet Union\n                     -1972 campaign\n                          -Television\n                          -Foreign policy\n                          -PRC\n                               -Timing\n                                     -Democratic National Convention\n\n     European trip\n          -William P. Rogers\n          -Announcement\n                -Kissinger's forthcoming trip to Japan\n                     -Announcement\n                -Kissinger's forthcoming meeting with Alexander M. Haig, Jr.\n\nKissinger left at 5:30 pm.","filename":["698a.mp3","698b.mp3"],"tapeStart":"02:01:37","tapeEnd":"02:13:15","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Kissinger, Henry A.","[Unknown person(s)]","Sanchez, Manolo"],"prevCode":"698-007","nextCode":"698-009","tapeTranscriptFile":"698a.mp3,698b.mp3","transcript":[{"start":7309.76,"end":7317.6,"text":"I think we should anyway do that."},{"start":7317.73,"end":7324.87,"text":"And then the only way they knew how to end it is to mock all the sacrifices they imposed on the American people."},{"start":7326.29,"end":7330.64,"text":"If we have to do that, I'll be prepared to do that."},{"start":7330.76,"end":7333.6,"text":"I intend to be awfully rough on the war in any event."},{"start":7334.5,"end":7337.96,"text":"We're going to say they got us in, we got out."},{"start":7339,"end":7342.51,"text":"Because in any event, you'll have all the gravity."},{"start":7344.81,"end":7353.45,"text":"In order to be able to say in the negotiations, because if they think we're talking, we've got to be a little, I want to be a little bit more of what's going on."},{"start":7438.77,"end":7445.15,"text":"And then the only way they knew how to end it is to mock all the sacrifices they imposed on the American people."},{"start":7455.41,"end":7460,"text":"Oh, if we have to do that, I'll be prepared to do that."},{"start":7460.24,"end":7462.76,"text":"And I said, I intend to be awfully rough on the war in any event."},{"start":7463.64,"end":7467.26,"text":"We're going to sit and we got them out."},{"start":7467.3,"end":7470.05,"text":"Because in any event, you'll have all the draftees."},{"start":7635.65,"end":7642.02,"text":"Now the network CBS has come back and they want to do a full hour in prime time."},{"start":7642.08,"end":7647.5,"text":"They only give half an hour on Sunday initially."},{"start":7647.54,"end":7650.26,"text":"We have to give them an answer on Thursday."},{"start":7651.34,"end":7652.58,"text":"We'll see what they offer."},{"start":7662.51,"end":7664.73,"text":"They've now opened a Thursday night from 8 to 9."},{"start":7665.93,"end":7666.69,"text":"Thursday from 8 to 9."},{"start":7667.63,"end":7669.47,"text":"They work on Thursdays and Sundays from 10.30 to 11."},{"start":7669.51,"end":7670.97,"text":"Yeah, I know, which is out of the question."},{"start":7672.09,"end":7677.65,"text":"You don't have as many Sundays from 10.30 to 11 as they've got in George, Buffalo, and Shaw, California at 7 to 8."},{"start":7677.75,"end":7683.29,"text":"I don't know, just 90 of them."},{"start":7689.62,"end":7690.22,"text":"That's right."},{"start":7690.24,"end":7691,"text":"We're going to go on."},{"start":7691.1,"end":7693.12,"text":"It's a question of getting the best time, the best view."},{"start":7693.35,"end":7701.27,"text":"The biggest audience, because once you have done it, you understand the next one."},{"start":7701.29,"end":7712.73,"text":"So if you're going to do it, it's got to be the best time, the best time of the week, the most good."},{"start":7713.27,"end":7713.53,"text":"Absolutely."},{"start":7713.97,"end":7716.93,"text":"That's the only view, but it'll be a hell of a time to do it."},{"start":7724.24,"end":7730.29,"text":"What is the situation, uh, the way this, uh, mosque, uh... Oh, nothing."},{"start":7730.33,"end":7733.25,"text":"Rather, they force all the instructors and people..."},{"start":7733.49,"end":7737,"text":"He'll let us know on Monday, and then we'll notify the court that we'll accept it."},{"start":7737.02,"end":7745.65,"text":"Well, that makes it an easy way to get back to... That makes it an easy way."},{"start":7745.77,"end":7750.05,"text":"In terms of the physical exertion, it's actually easier that way."},{"start":7753.38,"end":7755.78,"text":"You can go from Baku to Iran."},{"start":7755.84,"end":7756.48,"text":"That's easy."},{"start":7756.64,"end":7757.5,"text":"That's two hours."},{"start":7757.56,"end":7759,"text":"You do that Tuesday morning."},{"start":7759.74,"end":7773.8,"text":"Then I think you should leave Iran in time for a late afternoon arrival in Warsaw so that you can get the crowds out of the offices, say 5 o'clock, arriving in Warsaw."},{"start":7774.6,"end":7777.02,"text":"Any time you want to arrive in Warsaw, it doesn't make any difference."},{"start":7778.86,"end":7781.28,"text":"Then leave the next afternoon."},{"start":7781.38,"end":7782.96,"text":"You leave Wausau around 4 or 5."},{"start":7783.18,"end":7785.5,"text":"In the afternoon, you get in here about 9."},{"start":7785.54,"end":7792.35,"text":"You'll get a tremendous reception."},{"start":7792.37,"end":7792.89,"text":"You would think so."},{"start":7792.99,"end":7793.77,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":7793.81,"end":7800.11,"text":"Poles would be scared of that, knowing what happened before."},{"start":7800.67,"end":7800.99,"text":"You weren't."},{"start":7801.67,"end":7807.42,"text":"The only thing that really approached that reception was when the Spanishman, of course, was the visual size."},{"start":7808.62,"end":7812.16,"text":"but to what it really only approached in terms of emotion with Romania."},{"start":7813.47,"end":7816.37,"text":"And boy, I've been through receptions of that one in Warsaw."},{"start":7816.43,"end":7818.11,"text":"It was the dumbest thing for me."},{"start":7818.13,"end":7819.53,"text":"I was much better than you ever saw."},{"start":7819.71,"end":7822.33,"text":"But it won't be that emotional anymore because..."},{"start":7822.69,"end":7824.31,"text":"But it's been a long time."},{"start":7824.43,"end":7828.41,"text":"It's been a long time and they've become much more disillusioned to their prospects."},{"start":7828.75,"end":7829.55,"text":"That's right."},{"start":7830.23,"end":7831.97,"text":"But nobody can, they can't control their population."},{"start":7832.65,"end":7835.75,"text":"If they could, they would never... We don't have to think about other spaces."},{"start":7835.77,"end":7841.85,"text":"I think that the foals, fairly apart from anything else, even their prospects are not good."},{"start":7843.04,"end":7844.58,"text":"We want to see a president of the United States."},{"start":7845.1,"end":7845.46,"text":"That's right."},{"start":7845.52,"end":7848.02,"text":"No one has governed the polls in 300 years."},{"start":7849.18,"end":7852.92,"text":"And they couldn't get these guys away from the streets."},{"start":7854.66,"end":7855.74,"text":"And they want it."},{"start":7856.16,"end":7861.33,"text":"That government wants you there to solidify themselves with their people."},{"start":7861.37,"end":7863.37,"text":"For that, they've got to get their people on the streets."},{"start":7864.7,"end":7874.43,"text":"I could be wrong, but if you don't have a tremendous reception in Poland, you're going to have two tremendous receptions."},{"start":7874.59,"end":7880.11,"text":"You'll have a tremendous one in Tehran, you'll have a big one in Warsaw."},{"start":7880.93,"end":7887.73,"text":"And my instinct tells me there are somewhere along the line... One thing he told me was..."},{"start":7895.16,"end":7898.86,"text":"that, you know, we are having a little problem about space in the Kremlin."},{"start":7898.92,"end":7902.36,"text":"And he said, for God's sake, don't turn the Kremlin down."},{"start":7903.44,"end":7906.44,"text":"It's the biggest honor the president could pay you."},{"start":7908.21,"end":7923,"text":"And he said, above all, the Russian people, that's for the Russian people, it means that there's a solid basis for our relationship and it's a tremendous signal to our people."},{"start":7923.71,"end":7925.19,"text":"to have the president and the president."},{"start":7926.65,"end":7934.55,"text":"And I think that's right."},{"start":7934.57,"end":7935.75,"text":"We're not always complete."},{"start":7936.47,"end":7943.6,"text":"But I think that if I may make a suggestion, I think we should play it very cool about the time."},{"start":7943.62,"end":7950.1,"text":"We should give the impression that not much is going to happen, that we're going to have a lot of results."},{"start":7951.73,"end":7954.05,"text":"because there's too many evil stuff tricking out."},{"start":7954.55,"end":7958.27,"text":"But I know no one really expects much out of the Moscow Senate, and that's great."},{"start":7959.85,"end":7962.53,"text":"We've got the things split up over the bureaucracy in such a way."},{"start":7962.57,"end":7963.02,"text":"That's good."},{"start":7966.27,"end":7973.86,"text":"Well, I think we can play the line that there are a number of things we're going to discuss this afternoon, but we're pretty far apart on this trip, isn't it?"},{"start":7973.88,"end":7974.9,"text":"We're pretty far apart?"},{"start":7975.16,"end":7975.32,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":7975.34,"end":7977.08,"text":"It's going beautifully down in Seoul."},{"start":7977.14,"end":7978.34,"text":"Is it?"},{"start":7978.4,"end":7978.52,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":7979.58,"end":7982.89,"text":"That move don't get Buddy the Smith on the cell phone."},{"start":7984.15,"end":7986.55,"text":"Well, the Russians aren't right."},{"start":7987.05,"end":7988.72,"text":"No, I told the prison again today."}],"transcriptBoundary":{"start":7273.5,"end":7989.5,"startMethod":"silence","endMethod":"silence"},"transcriptConfidence":"high","transcriptSource":"bigtape","aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Henry Kissinger met to discuss logistics and strategic communications for upcoming foreign diplomatic missions, including a stopover in Warsaw during an upcoming Soviet trip and potential visits to Iran. The conversation centered on managing public expectations for the Moscow summit and the importance of securing prime-time television coverage for Kissinger’s media appearances. Additionally, the President reviewed the political optics of the Vietnam War, emphasizing a desire to adopt a firmer stance on the conflict as part of his broader foreign policy and 1972 campaign strategy.","topics":["Vietnam War","Moscow Summit","Foreign Policy","Public Relations","Presidential Travel"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-07T02:50:25.634Z"},"topicSlugs":["vietnam-war","moscow-summit","foreign-policy","public-relations","presidential-travel"],"audioDurationSec":698,"audioFiles":[{"file":"698a.mp3","bytes":176263835,"durationSec":7344.27,"bitrate":192001,"missing":false},{"file":"698b.mp3","bytes":76957987,"durationSec":3206.51,"bitrate":192004,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":true,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:54.978Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/698a.mp3","https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/698b.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/698-008","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/698/conversation-698-008","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). 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