Nixon & Haldeman on Vietnam War and Public Relations

1:50:57I don't know if you're gonna have a little discussion.
1:50:59I think the, I am not familiar with the line.
1:51:04I was more familiar with the stop range.
1:51:06So that seems to have been on the stop range throughout the period of this semester.
1:51:09So I didn't think it was gonna come up.
1:51:13So I don't know if you're familiar with it.
1:51:16I don't know if you're familiar with it.
1:51:27He's going to scare you.
1:51:30I think it's apparently what I need to figure out is more than that.
1:51:34It's personal.
1:51:36And it's all there, too.
1:51:37I mean, they're talking around, you know, and fooling with numbers.
1:51:42Well, I think Larry was personally manipulated.
1:51:44Richard's very smart.
1:51:45He's a beast, and he wants us to lose.
1:51:47And it's a dangerous goddamn situation.
1:51:49Well, he's smart, and he's also sneaky.
1:51:51He's a pretty unprincipled type of guy, apparently.
1:51:59could be saved.
1:52:00I went over to the Propaganda Department and he said that he had talked to Scali and Ziegler and had told them that the line should be, and he's also going to get in the 1045, I mean at 11 o'clock,
1:52:16and the others the line should be that that we we we predicts loss of territory and lines bendings we're using that whatever they want also said and so forth that this is the way that because of the enemy's concentrating and strength so that once it comes then we can handle it properly in another way now if you if you like what find you
1:52:47I mean, the main thing is to be sure Skelly gets in on that.
1:52:54You know what I mean?
1:52:55Henry doesn't cut him off.
1:52:56I don't think he will.
1:53:01But I think if you want, you can just, you know, you can have Henry, force Henry to meet every day with sailors and scouts, as he went by.
1:53:11And Klein, when he's around, you know, because Klein's got to go out and handle the line.
1:53:17Fair enough.
1:53:18But I want this, for the most part, not handled out of the goddamn White House.
1:53:23That's the other shirt.
1:53:25And Ryan's pushing the lines out so that Matt B. says it.
1:53:29Defense doesn't.
1:53:30I have no thought that there's lines to be handled at the White House.
1:53:36I just don't think we have anybody in defense or in Henry's place who has any sense of what the prophet, they delude themselves of propaganda.
1:53:48And Henry waves his magic wand and says, well, you know, they shouldn't think that.
1:53:52Whatever it is they think, they should think something else.
1:53:54That doesn't, you know, I don't keep saying it doesn't work that way.
1:54:00And you can't...
1:54:03It's fine, as long as we get some realists in there who are looking into it.
1:54:07You can't just wish the press weren't there or they'd write it right.
1:54:13And the press is going to write adverse stuff if we give them a chance.
1:54:19Now, actually, this... You know, we're not reading college, believe me.
1:54:24Henry is right in one respect.
1:54:26Totally right.
1:54:27This is the time for this to come.
1:54:29This is the time, believe me.
1:54:32And also, again, I'll be so honest, and also, it's good when you and I, and I think you've heard that from Henry Carter and another thing.
1:54:40I don't know if he knows this.
1:54:41I mean, we feel insuited about crossing the BNB rather than having Gord of the Two do it on Sunday or Saturday night and go down there and say, for Christ's sake, get Rogers and Laird to start yelling about that.
1:54:52The crossing with the EMC is a violation, you know what I mean?
1:54:56That's a violation of the understanding and testifies the bombing of an arm, Steve.
1:54:59Sure.
1:55:00And, Steve, do you recall about that?
1:55:03Yes.
1:55:03One of those so-called understanding concerns.
1:55:06Now, they came across in force.
1:55:07That's right.
1:55:09Great stuff this morning.
1:55:10That's what they say.
1:55:12This is an opportunity.
1:55:15Henry is not unreasonable in dealing with this.
1:55:19He just doesn't think about it.
1:55:20This kind of stuff doesn't get into his...
1:55:26But I had that in mind.
1:55:29I think the, but I think what you should do, and one of the things about having been through Cambodia, and also Cambodia we handled pretty well, and we finally got a man, we used to do it every morning, you know, and get those then counts of how many rockets, blah, blah, blah, and so on, are all interesting.
1:55:47Laos, we didn't because we didn't keep on top of it.
1:55:49Well, our business strategy on Laos was wrong.
1:55:52It was conscious, really.
1:55:53I mean, we thought we were doing, and I certainly agree with you, doing a good job in locating it.
1:55:59We did do a good job in locating it.
1:56:01The result was that weekend, the March 31st weekend, right?
1:56:03Yeah.
1:56:03Remember that one?
1:56:06Yeah.
1:56:07Okay.
1:56:08Now...
1:56:12This is a very different situation.
1:56:15There are no Americans.
1:56:16We're not going to have a significant increase in American losses.
1:56:26not significant in the sense of going from, you know, an increase of 100 losses, but the multiple is going to be greater than it was in Cambodia or Laos.
1:56:36And that passage would use that.
1:56:38It won't get anywhere, maybe.
1:56:40I don't think it's going to get anywhere.
1:56:41All right.
1:56:41But there's still...
1:56:42But I agree it's a problem.
1:56:44Let's take those from 20.
1:56:45Let's say you get 20.
1:56:46You might want to try it.
1:56:49Which is not unlikely.
1:56:50Well, there's 90 if you get those helicopters in there.
1:56:52We have, it looks like we have eight now.
1:56:55So, this week?
1:56:56Well, over the weekend, as I understand it.
1:56:58Yeah.
1:57:00So, if you've done a bomber, and you've got the same, it's a bomber, you've got a problem.
1:57:07So, your casualties go down to 20?
1:57:09So, they go up to 20.
1:57:11So, what's the difference?
1:57:13Except that you'll get one of those ships on there that'll say, 10 times the speed inside of Vietnam this week than the last, which is a good measure of the progress of Vietnamization.
1:57:27You know, we just gotta, they won't deny, they ain't get much farther than that.
1:57:32But how it comes out is what matters.
1:57:35And the main thing is to have it come out right.
1:57:38Also, fight the propaganda battle as well as we can.
1:57:41I think you, Kissinger, and don't have too many, if I can strongly urge you.
1:57:47If you, Kissinger, Scali, Ziegler, and Ziegler and Klein, that's all.
1:57:52Klein really doesn't have much.
1:57:54Well, they don't have, I think it's you work it out and you cover it for them.
1:57:57And that's how we're lying, because lying doesn't contribute.
1:57:59Well, I just suggested that to Henry, saying he would raise some questions.
1:58:03But his questions, it's really kind of pathetic.
1:58:06His clients' questions weren't even correct to the subject.
1:58:11That's not true.
1:58:12He had one good question.
1:58:14One very good question.
1:58:20It's hard to break people down.
1:58:23I don't know who are breaking them down.
1:58:25Scallops.
1:58:25Scallops.
1:58:25Well, it's interesting what the press is going to get.
1:58:28And as the...
1:58:33I'm not, in any way, I don't think we've got any problem, except what we've created for ourselves by wishing that it would go the way it ought to go.
1:58:43I mean, right at the moment, the story, the story of how the Malibu was forgotten, it'd be fine.
1:58:50The outcome could be fine.
1:58:53But a lot of us didn't.
1:58:56It sure was.
1:58:57It wasn't what it should have been.
1:58:59And we did get screwed militarily by our own people.
1:59:03We had a hell of a struggle today.
1:59:06This one has Bob Ellington pointed out.
1:59:09Has Bob Ellington pointed it out?
1:59:13But who reads Bob Ellington?
1:59:15A few thousand people and a few million people see every night just crack one TV.
1:59:19That's the only thing I know.
1:59:21You're right.
1:59:24Do you want me to tell Henry that I want to sit in on the VR group each weekday?
1:59:29What do you call it?
1:59:32Oh, yeah, if it comes up.
1:59:34Well, if it comes up, hell, I've got to bring it up.
1:59:35You know how it is with Henry.
1:59:41So we ought to take a few minutes each day to review the propaganda.
1:59:48Okay.
1:59:50Offensive.
1:59:54It's at least as important as the military one at this point.
2:00:01I've been talking about this for a while.
2:00:04Yeah.
2:00:04The meat prices.
2:00:05It's not bad either.
2:00:07Do other things.
2:00:12Borough policy area, Bob.
2:00:14Even though we pick a whack, as we know, because of what happened to the models in the foreign policy area, we know that well.
2:00:22We're a family.
2:00:23I mean, there's nobody that can even lay a blow on us.
2:00:26And we're going to go to Russia after this one.
2:00:28That's something that we're going to have some good announcements.
2:00:32The main thing is these people can't lose.
2:00:34And, uh, Lawrence got to that point today.
2:00:38I'd like to tell you, too, it's not that we haven't done our part of the piece, and the weather has been good about this point, but, uh, I also think that if they, if they can come in there and create pretty good blood, you know, but I know as an officer, it's always going to be our arranged thing.
2:00:55And I'm not going to put you to the side.
2:00:56But then, very fortunately, you just get out there and, uh, well, you can practically saturate the compound.
2:01:01You know, really, I think with the... Yeah, it's almost incredible that they get away with moving tanks in, in tent columns and stuff like that, because that should be sitting up type stuff.
2:01:30Yeah, nobody comes to that damn history thing anymore.
2:01:33I think we've almost got a case for saying we're stopping it.
2:01:36Who is it?
2:01:37I've got thousands coming.
2:01:39Oh, I don't know.
2:01:40Maybe they get the nut in front of you.
2:01:41It's dropped off.
2:01:42I think it's all there.
2:01:43I don't know.
2:01:49It's a hell of a lot of work, you know, big houses.
2:01:52I didn't know there was a building, a band center, that army band playing out there.
2:01:59There's a couple other kids.
2:02:00There aren't as many kids as there are band members.
2:02:03And now here comes a Marine band head to take over.
2:02:12Where in the name of God are they?
2:02:14I'm just kind of...
2:02:17You know, part of the reason maybe it's a damn cold.
2:02:19I'm sure that is part of it.
2:02:23But another part is that it is...
2:02:24I've been talking about this for a while.
2:02:28Yeah.
2:02:29Remember the meat prices.
2:02:30It's not bad either.
2:02:31Do other things.
2:02:32The borer policy area, Bob.
2:02:39Even though we pick a whack, as we know, because of what happened to the models, the foreign policy area, we know that well.
2:02:47We're apprehending.
2:02:48I mean, there's nobody that can even lay a blow on us.
2:02:51And we're going to go to Russia after this one.
2:02:52It's something that we're going to have some good announcements.
2:02:57The main thing is these people can't lose.
2:02:58And, uh, Lawrence got to that point today.
2:03:03I'd like to tell you, too, it's not that we haven't done our bit of these, and the weather had been a little up to this point, but, uh, I've also come back to different states, and they can come in there and create pretty good blood.
2:03:16I know those bombs are always going to be on a rampage thing.
2:03:19They're going to knock them, but you just have to be very fortunate and just get out there and, uh, well, you can practically saturate the company.
2:03:26You know, really, I think with the... Yeah, it's almost incredible that they get away with moving tanks and tent columns and stuff like that, because that should be sitting up type stuff.
2:03:55You know, nobody comes to that dance or anything anymore.
2:03:58I think we've almost got a case for saying we're stopping it.
2:04:01We've got thousands coming, don't we?
2:04:03Oh, I don't know.
2:04:04Maybe they do, but not in front of me.
2:04:06It's dropped off.
2:04:07I think it's all there.
2:04:14There's a hell of a lot of work, you know, big houses.
2:04:17I know there's a building, a band center, an army band playing out there.
2:04:24There's a couple other kids.
2:04:25There aren't as many kids as there are band members.
2:04:28And now here comes a Marine band head to take over.
2:04:37Where in the name of God are they?
2:04:39I'm just kind of...
2:04:42You know, part of the reason maybe it's a damn cold.
2:04:44I'm not sure about this part of it.
2:04:48But another part is that it isn't really that much of a deal.
2:04:54Yeah.
2:07:21When I had this team, I remember we talked about it before, didn't you bring the people together?
2:07:27I'm just thinking of the pattern of establishing these things.
2:07:36Did you go before, or how did you go to Henry's office?
2:07:39Well, a lot of us, I went down to the Wesleyan meetings.
2:07:42Oh, yeah.
2:07:43I wasn't going to do that.
2:07:44That was a disaster.
2:07:45That doesn't sound any useful.
2:07:46I wasn't going to do that because that irritates him, but that's his little thing.
2:07:50Well, he wanted me to then.
2:07:51That was kind of his game plan.
2:07:56But that didn't serve our purpose.
2:08:12It doesn't matter what gets into it.
2:08:13There just ought to be somebody who is an operational understand what the story is.
2:08:17Well, actually, I think you could be on it.
2:08:19And the main thing is that you and Henry won't listen to Ziegler and Scallion enough.
2:08:26But you can just ride the hell out of them.
2:08:28And, of course, I'll be riding them.
2:08:29I'm digging the PR things all the time.
2:08:31I gave Henry about four things yesterday that haven't occurred to him.
2:08:33The press out of the goddamn area and a few other things, you know.
2:08:41Yeah, but... Well, you're sure, right?
2:08:43I've got to look at the workers up there with their cans, because they're still there.
2:08:46They're up.
2:08:47Well, there's some of them.
2:08:48They're gonna... You can't keep them out of everything, though.
2:08:50God, now they're running a revolutionary event.
2:08:58You know, Bob, in a sense, crisis, crisis, crisis.
2:09:03What the hell?
2:09:06All the office really is.
2:09:07I don't know if we didn't have this, how Schultz would be here this morning saying the supplemental for 1973.
2:09:17This is a very, very great crisis.
2:09:22It's really the goddamn truth.
2:09:24If you don't have one, they're going to create it, isn't it?
2:09:26People have to live by battles.
2:09:31And that's particularly true of our time.
2:09:33I think we have lived in a time when, because of the media and the rest, everything has blown up out of all portions.
2:09:56You know, one good thing about this, in a sense, is that it could precipitate a settlement.
2:10:00Oh, boy.
2:10:01We've got the best of all worlds, because, uh, I'm just, uh, I'm just, uh, I'm South Vietnam, best of this planet, and I just want to keep, basically, the Delta, the Saigon, and the rest.
2:10:18They want to precipitate a good settlement to get the goddamn thing down over to the finish.
2:10:25I don't know that we'd be that lucky.
2:10:28Well, that's at least a chance at this point.
2:10:31Well, I think there is some chance.
2:10:33I have very little confidence, frankly, and I think Haight agrees with me on anything.
2:10:43But anyway, I have very little confidence that Henry's, you know, rolling over to Paris again.
2:10:50Did you?
2:10:51I think Haight does agree with me on that.
2:10:54But I just thought, oh, here he goes again, you know, starting them off, and he thinks everything's going to matter.
2:11:03Yeah, we know about life.
2:11:04That's what I did for the weekend Saturday.
2:11:06He was saying, well, we mustn't do it.
2:11:09We want to hold off any bombing in the DMZ area until after he had a chance to see the Chinese on Tuesday and so forth.
2:11:19He said, because of our...
2:11:21This whole site.
2:11:33was understandable.
2:11:35He just holding onto his left one, thinking maybe this is the one where they're going to negotiate.
2:11:40They are going to negotiate at this point.
2:11:44I mean, they weren't.
2:11:45Now, they may because of the fact that we're getting close to the point, but how many times have you heard, not over the last year, not over the last two years, but the last two and a half years, said, we've got them coming?
2:11:59It's like running for the wire.
2:12:02We're almost there.
2:12:04This is the last three and a half years.
2:12:07Because he was saying in April, three years ago, the last three years, in 1969, he was talking about, you know, if he's obsessed by it, I really think we're going to pull this together in a negotiation.
2:12:25And, of course, it's always the excuse from the Congress to Rodgers.
2:12:29Rodgers got the State Department and the State Department said, I believe, and this and that and the other thing.
2:12:36On the other hand, on the plus side, we handled the goddamn war extremely well.
2:12:39You'd think that we would handle it in a way that we haven't in a way that it would rob you.
2:12:44And, you know, goddamn Americans the hell out.
2:12:46You're going to decide you've got a chance to survive.
2:12:49It's an amazing thing.
2:12:53For sure.
2:12:54So we'll keep out of the day.
2:12:57We'll get ahead of it all day and all night.
2:12:58We've got to calm down.
2:13:03That's the only certainty.
2:13:04If we have any such, we'll do it.
2:13:05He can't go.
2:13:05We just won't send anybody.
2:13:08They were going to have the thing anyway.
2:13:10So we'll just do what's out there.
2:13:12Alert for them.
2:13:17And rockets for them.
2:13:19And peace.
2:13:24Okay, we'll see what he comes up with next week.
2:13:27It's a, it's really a Jewish day, you know, it's a pretty sick, not a bad thing.
2:13:31The way I have to do it, and I just can't bring myself to do it, is to all in it.
2:13:37You know, I've done it every time.
2:13:39Say, look, Ross, what do you think about this?
2:13:41I just don't think I'll do it this time.
2:13:44What do you think?
2:13:45You shouldn't have to do that, Scott.
2:13:46I mean, they should be having some ideas.
2:13:48It's kind of ridiculous.
2:13:49You know, you think we should have tried to get Rodgers and Laird in the North Office and so forth, but...
2:13:58God, they never had anything.
2:13:59They never do.
2:13:59They just muttered that what we're really trying to do is run it.
2:14:02I mean, they really do, you know, they do.
2:14:04But then, I can't say, and a lot of this, you know, is going to have a press conference.
2:14:08This is going to go on for a while for the purpose of announcing the State Department, the State Department announced the recognition of Invisash, and a lot of, and how much we've been doing for them.
2:14:18Well, for Christ's sakes, I mean, does he want to set the State Department off against the White House on that issue?
2:14:24You notice that that's why Lieberman got me out?
2:14:26On the order to leave?
2:14:27The State does that to us all the time.
2:14:29I think it was the Negro who had to do the same to us.
2:14:33He's done.
2:14:34giving up money to other people.
2:14:36So we're going to recognize that.
2:14:38I don't know how many people want to hear a damn about it.
2:14:43But at least we've got just a minute.
2:14:45Rather than having it played as, well, the State Department finally won out, which they would play over and over again.
2:15:03You've got to use, you've got to use leaks a little more often.
2:15:08It's a very effective device.
2:15:09Yeah?
2:15:12Our enemies, you know, they leak this and that.
2:15:16Get one out of that.
2:15:21Well, if you can get the, if you can get the, and let me know as soon as you can, if we can get some good general statements made about Catholic education,
2:15:34I need that right of hand.
2:15:39I've already been stuck in the forest.
2:15:42Then we could do it on Thursday.
2:15:44And I can't do it on Thursday.
2:15:46We can't.
2:15:46We can do it any time this week, up to three o'clock on Thursday.
2:15:51If I did it, I would do it by dribbling around in the morning.
2:15:55Because I don't have to go to Florida.
2:15:57If I go, I would not go thirsty, that's for sure.
2:16:00But what I would do then would be to go out there and do that and then come back here and do the... spend the morning here.
2:16:21And I, as I think of it at the moment, I must do the, we'll, we'll, we'll just play it without getting, not noticing anybody, don't even breathe, just say we're telling, tell us everyone we can't take it, that's it, we're telling them.
2:16:34For this week?
2:16:35Yeah, yeah, these years, we just said it on this one.
2:16:37So let's let that be the current line so that everybody can fill it up.
2:16:43And I can check it.
2:16:44I find the weather's good there and everything.
2:16:46And about Friday at noon, I'll go down.
2:16:49I'll give you the rest of Friday and Saturday and Sunday.
2:16:54And that, I don't think will present any particular problem unless the situation out there is much worse.
2:17:03That sort of a crisis atmosphere.
2:17:04You see, if it is, then I've got to stay here.
2:17:07You should read it.
2:17:08Yeah.
2:17:10Well, I don't even read that, but I see the point.
2:17:13I don't think you do that.
2:17:14You have a clear-cut communication system.
2:17:19Well, unless you're in the, you know, everything's going up in flames, when it does actually, that isn't going to happen.
2:17:37I think you've got such a clearly established position that you can run things from where you are, and especially in the corner of California where you've got bases, that whether you're here or not is inherent.
2:17:57Well, it's Friday, and also that you don't go down to the Situation Room and call every bum shot.
2:18:00Tell me.
2:18:01But Friday could be the day to do it.
2:18:03I don't think I should go on Thursday.
2:18:05I don't want to do that.
2:18:06I know I can't do it.
2:18:07I should try to get up.
2:18:08The mall's easy.
2:18:08I'm just... At this point, it doesn't fit.
2:18:12But I think I can do it Friday.
2:18:14Friday at noon.
2:18:15Pretty well, pretty easily.
2:18:16That's a pretty good part of the day that I've got there, too.
2:18:26We've got Henry's put back and I've turned down twice now.
2:18:30Another four?
2:18:31No, he's not.
2:18:31Ambassador Ingersoll.
2:18:34And I saw him.
2:18:36Yeah, but seeing him again.
2:18:37Well, what they say is that when you saw him in January, you said you wanted to sit down and talk with him for an hour and an hour and a half before he departed.
2:18:44Oh, for Christ's sake, that was never the truth.
2:18:47He said talk to him.
2:18:48I'm not going to talk to him for an hour and a half, Christ's sake.
2:18:54What are they recommending then?
2:18:56They want...
2:18:59Well, they wanted an hour to an hour and a half.
2:19:02No, I don't know, sir.
2:19:03That's absolutely not wrong.
2:19:05And what they're suggesting, though, is to reconsider the basis of the 30-minute appointment.
2:19:09They also wanted Rodgers and Marshall Green to accompany him.
2:19:13They're now arguing that it's a... because of Henry's trip to Japan, this is now all the more important.
2:19:19I don't know why.
2:19:31So put it on the basis that he sits down and he's had his hour and hour in hand with Rogers and Green, history and all that.
2:19:41He's done that, he's had his consequences.
2:19:43And I don't see any reason for Rogers and Green to come here.
2:19:48I'd rather see him alone.
2:19:50I prefer to do it that way, he is the ambassador.
2:19:54And he can come in with Henry.
2:20:00But it's got to be 30 minutes, okay?
2:20:03Explanation.
2:20:09I'm very involved in this, you know, getting on situations with him.
2:20:15He's had his consultation.
2:20:20Yeah, he's covered that, and this is... Has he covered Henry?
2:20:29Good.
2:20:30I'm willing just to build him up with my own arm, build him up symbolically with doing the arms of the Force and everybody else like that.
2:20:36That's all I have to say.
2:20:37But I hope there are no more archmasters.
2:20:40But we're not fighting anymore, thank God.
2:20:44We've got one.
2:20:49U.S. with him?
2:20:50Uh, Butts, yeah, I don't know.
2:20:52No, that's because he's going to sell the union before he leaves today.
2:20:55No, I don't see any point in that.
2:20:57No point in that.
2:20:58No point in that.
2:21:00Plus, besides our efforts to boost U.S. exports, but... No.
2:21:02You got, yeah.
2:21:03Butts is, Butts is really, really doing everything he can.
2:21:07I, I see nothing to be gained by that.
2:21:09And it's a bet.
2:21:10Sure, yeah.
2:21:11It's a bad story in terms of who prices Bob.
2:21:14I want to check this with Mitchell.
2:21:15I think J.D.
2:21:16is resigning.
2:21:16He wants to pay a farewell calling and I'm in for that.
2:21:20I want to be sure Mitchell agrees to our motion.
2:21:23I think we want to do that, but I don't know what you mean because it gets us a call on the trail.
2:21:29I just want to be sure there's no, no, that J.D.
2:21:33and J.D.
2:21:34have been involved since the century.
2:21:39And I guess there's no primary problem there, is there?
2:21:43No, there's no primary problem.
2:21:45If there is, I'd be for him anyway.
2:21:46Okay, so we should go.
2:21:47He's the only one in this chamber.
2:21:48Just call Mitchell.
2:21:49Always on the most with farming.
2:21:51Absolutely.
2:21:52Okay.
2:21:52Pull him into the fire, too.
2:21:55Okay.
2:21:55Now, we're ready to move on the Federal Reserve appointment, and we're going to have to do the exercise of Arthur coming in with the others.
2:22:03With the others.
2:22:05And he's here now.
2:22:09It's down to two people.
2:22:11Everybody wants one guy, except Arthur who wants the other, but Arthur has said the popular choice is acceptable to him, but it's not his first choice.
2:22:20He's going to have to come up with his thing.
2:22:22The guy he wants is an old guy who is malleable.
2:22:26The guy our guys want is a young guy.
2:22:29He's too hot for that.
2:22:31We put him in disrupt things for a while and then move him to something else in the administration.
2:22:50So you're going to have to let Arthur go through his exercise, and Conley agrees this should be done.
2:22:57Conley agrees, okay.
2:22:58Yes.
2:22:59Good.
2:23:00Show that to Mark, too.
2:23:03Get that over with.
2:23:06And then...
2:23:08But, but Dinger saw last, so that by the end of the day, so by 12, so I, if I do happen to go over to the head of army and put him at 12, so that he can, and I can get rid of him at 12, or if I can use him in case, in case, I don't know, I don't know how long he may have to live, but I know that between him and having me, I can solve this matter perfectly.
2:23:30I'll give you what he needs.
2:23:35Okay.
2:23:35Fine.
2:23:37Let's get all that stuff out of the way for a while, till we can.
2:23:49Sorry to cut you off.
2:23:54Okay, let's do the other way, right here.
2:23:58And that'll be how it ends.
2:23:58Anything else?
2:23:59I don't know, I haven't had a chance to look yet, but let's see what we got here.
2:24:05National Forest Explorers, we won't do.
2:24:08What?
2:24:09Explorer Scouts National Presidents to give you a gavel.
2:24:17No, sir, thank you.
2:24:18Presentation of your first environmental awards.
2:24:22Oh, I guess I shouldn't say it.
2:24:24You can't do those.
2:24:25I think maybe these are the ones you want to do.
2:24:30No, no, no, I understand.
2:24:32I understand.
2:24:33I understand the deal is that, you know, I know everybody says I should do more in the environment, so maybe I do it.
2:24:39Okay.
2:24:41But on the other hand, Bob, you know what you can run into with environmentalists?
2:24:50Eaters.
2:24:53Yeah, he's certain.
2:24:54And I've just got to be all goddamn sure that I don't have some goddamn decent guy come in and say, I wish you'd stop defoliating me.
2:25:00I'm not going to risk it.
2:25:02This is a thing Julie's involved in.
2:25:04Maybe we'll just have Julie deal with it.
2:25:06I really feel I should stay out of it.
2:25:08I just think I'm very much afraid of that.
2:25:10Julie's the ad hoc chairman of the advisory committee.
2:25:13Oh, I see they're going to bring them.
2:25:21Or they're going to announce the membership of the advisory committee at the same time, which is a good idea.
2:25:26The only thing I'm concerned about is if environmentalists do have a problem now.
2:25:30They do, they really do.
2:25:31They're going to bring their school principal and their science teacher.
2:25:38That's a good one for Julie to do.
2:25:39Except it's your awards program, then.
2:25:42I'll be looking into it.
2:25:43That's what I want to announce this year.
2:25:47Why the hell couldn't she do it here at this office?
2:25:51in a condition we've never been in.
2:25:52That's perfectly all right.
2:25:54My father's been, uh, in Philadelphia today.
2:25:58It's next week, not this week.
2:26:03Well, let's see what at the end of next week, sir.
2:26:09Okay.
2:26:28I want to show out there more actors than there are audiences.
2:26:35Still.
2:26:36What's up?
2:26:37I've got another idea out there.
2:26:40You know, there ought to be 10,000 out there.
2:26:43It's a hell of a show.
2:26:44It's a hell of a show.
2:26:47There aren't very many out there.
2:26:48What the hell's the matter with Washington?
2:26:53There's a lot of people coming.
2:26:59Maybe the afternoon is a big deal.
3:01:19You know, the real iron that we can't let it out of the top of the IT&T thing is this, and it's certainly true.
3:01:29Justice, and I mean Mitchell, Clint East, and obviously Leclerc, they were the ones that were taking the harder line on IT&T all the time.
3:01:41It was only here that the pressures came in, you know, when John and all the fellows met here, and they were doing exactly what they should have.
3:01:50Connelly, Ed, you know, and Plattigan, etc.
3:01:52They got over it early and said, we've got to get these people in line.
3:01:57But the pressure was reduced from here, so we've got to remember that it isn't justice.
3:02:02in response to all the responsibility in that respect.
3:02:06No, not on the Tony Gannon.
3:02:08No, sir.
3:02:09Well, what I meant is, it was a good sentence, but my point is, the irony is that Justice Hands is totally blaming this.
3:02:20Justice wanted to be tougher and had a trust in the administration.
3:02:24That's frankly the truth.
3:02:26Tougher than our policy, that our policy was determined.
3:02:30They wanted to go harder than that policy.
3:02:33McLaren, well it was really McLaren wanted to, and McLaren was sitting by the way, and frankly Mitchell, one of these were backing him.
3:02:39So that's what it came down to.
3:02:42And frankly there was a hell of a fight.
3:02:45You recall, Connelly led it.
3:02:48Connelly was fighting it, not leading it.
3:02:50Stantz was fighting it.
3:02:53Peterson, I must say, in his office was fighting it.
3:02:56Flanagan, of course, was the main one because it was his job.
3:02:59I guess the main one, but he was, yeah, I think so.
3:03:02Earl, of course, had to take it because it was a legal matter.
3:03:06But they were excited.
3:03:07There wasn't any damn question about it.
3:03:11And they were right.
3:03:17I can't figure out what the hell governor McGovern on that, what he was saying about it.
3:03:22Do you think he just had bad information?
3:03:24Someone must have given him a thumbs up.
3:03:26But to retract it with a hand thugger, he must have, do you think he just got emotional and overstated the damn thing?
3:03:33He knows they have, well, no major corporation didn't pay taxes.
3:03:36That's the most ridiculous goddamn thing you could ever imagine.
3:03:41An individual money.
3:03:44But he apparently felt he had some leak.
3:03:47He must have had some.
3:03:54He said it was in the file.
3:03:55It might mean a Kennedy people plan.
3:04:04He said there must be an interlocking between Kennedy's McGovern staff.
3:04:09So, they said this was in the SCC file.
3:04:12Maybe they're trying to blow that one.
3:04:14Maybe that's what they're trying to do.
3:04:17You know they want to get that file out?
3:04:19Yeah.
3:04:21And maybe, uh, that was, it might have been a device.
3:04:28Could be.
3:04:38I don't know, they might have been shooting or something else.
3:04:43There's a candidate looking to pick it up.
3:04:58Boy, would I come to the show if I didn't get here.
3:05:00Of course, this isn't just Washington.
3:05:01This is Manhattan.
3:05:05Kids.
3:05:05Yeah.
3:05:07Oh, there's not many out there now.
3:05:10Oh, yeah, there are.
3:05:12They ought to be building up now.
3:05:15Or they seem to be moving from various places to places.
3:05:17They ought to change the show, you know, the Easter Bunny and the bands and the marching boys.
3:05:25It's getting a little windy now.
3:05:33You'll need an hour.
3:05:48Go down here.

Nixon & Haldeman on Vietnam War and Public Relations

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on April 3, 1972

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