Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 702 › Conversation 702-005

Nixon & Bull on American leadership and Religion in politics

Tuesday, April 4, 1972 · 3:12 PM–3:45 PM ET · Oval Office

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Bull, Stephen B.Conversation702-005 on Tape 702 (tape position 00:43:00–00:44:05)StartTuesday, April 4, 1972 at 3:12 PMEndTuesday, April 4, 1972 at 3:45 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 702-005 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and aide Stephen B. Bull discussed the perceived decline of character among American leadership classes, specifically critiquing various religious and business demographics. Nixon expressed skepticism toward liberal religious groups while praising the perceived integrity and resolve of fundamentalist leaders. This informal assessment of the national social and political climate served as a framework for evaluating the President's support base within the American public.

Audio

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This conversation has not yet been cut into its own clip, so the player above contains the full tape segment shared with neighbouring conversations. It begins about 00:43:00 into the tape and ends around 00:44:05.

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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43:00The business community, except for Main Street business, and Midwest and Southern and some Western businesses, curious and silent.
43:06Labor leaders are pretty good as leaders.
43:10Religious leaders, a terror bag.
43:15You've got some of the conservative Catholics who still have it, but you've got the Catholics that have, some of them have broken away and had an erection there.
43:27The ultra-liberal Catholics are as bad as our Protestants.
43:32I mean, like the Northern Presbyterians, the Congregationalists, the Quakers, of which I am one, and so forth.
43:41And the only character that you find in religion in this country happens to be among the fundamentalists.
43:48People laugh at them in the arguments of Beals and Billy Grahams and all the rest of the Southern Baptists and so forth, but they've got character and guts and they believe in something.
43:58What I'm getting at is, what is happening to this leader class in the United States?
44:03Let me put it this way.
44:04I still have to answer my own question, that a majority of the people in this country

NARA Description

On April 4, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 3:12 pm and 3:45 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 702-005 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 702-5

Date: April 4, 1972
Time: Unknown between 3:12 pm and 3:45 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Stephen B. Bull.

     Meeting with Henry A. Kissinger

Bull left at 3:23 pm.

Also recorded on April 4, 1972

  • 701-017 1:17 PM · 14 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Oval Office of the White House from 1:17 pm to 1:32 pm.
  • 702-001 2:47 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 2:47 pm and 2:55 pm.
  • 702-002 2:47 PM · 28 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Ronald L. Ziegler, and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 2:47 pm and 3:11 pm.
  • 702-003 3:11 PM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:11 pm to 3:12 pm.
  • 702-004 3:12 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John K. Andrews, Jr. met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 3:12 pm and 3:45 pm.
  • 702-006 3:12 PM · 14 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 3:12 pm and 3:45 pm.
  • 702-007 3:45 PM · 1 hr 22 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, Alexander P. Butterfield, John N. Mitchell, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Manolo Sanchez, Charles Lucet, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:45 pm to 5:06 pm.
  • 702-008 5:06 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:06 pm and 5:08 pm.

All 35 conversations from April 4, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 702-005, April 4, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/702-005 (accessed October 12, 2026).