Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 702 › Conversation 702-009
Nixon, Kirk & White House photographer on Conservatism and Education policy
Tuesday, April 4, 1972 · 5:08 PM–6:01 PM ET · Oval Office
AI Summary
President Nixon met with conservative intellectual Russell A. Kirk and his wife, Annette, to discuss Kirk’s work, *A Program for Conservatives*, and broader societal trends. Their conversation explored conservative critiques of the American education system, including concerns over vocational training, campus unrest, and the influence of television on children. The participants further evaluated the perceived decline of the American 'leader class,' comparing U.S. cultural and moral standing to other nations while emphasizing the importance of patriotism and the traditional family structure.
- Conservatism
- Education policy
- Cultural decline
- Vocational training
- Russell A. Kirk
- Mass media
Audio
This conversation has not yet been cut into its own clip, so the player above contains the full tape segment shared with neighbouring conversations. It begins about 02:21:04 into the tape and ends around 03:12:34.
Transcript (AI-generated)
No transcript is available yet for this conversation. The recording may contain no audible speech, or it may not have been processed.
NARA Description
On April 4, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Russell A. Kirk, Alexander P. Butterfield, White House photographer, Manolo Sanchez, Stephen B. Bull, and Annette Kirk met in the Oval Office of the White House from 5:08 pm to 6:01 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 702-009 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 702-9
Date: April 4, 1972
Time: 5:08 pm - 6:01 pm
Location: Oval Office
The President met with Russell A. Kirk; Alexander P. Butterfield and the White House
photographer were present at the beginning of the meeting.
Introduction and greetings
[Photograph session]
-Arrangements
-Oliver F. (“Ollie”) Atkins
-Saturday Evening Post
Seating
Kirk's residence
-New York
-Last meeting with the President
Manolo Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 5:08 pm.
Refreshment
Sanchez left at an unknown time before 5:57 pm.
Meeting
-Purpose
-Discussion of Kirk's book, A Program for Conservatives
Kirk's book
-distribution
-Relevance
-Date of writing
-1950's
-Dwight D. Eisenhower administration
-Korean War
-Recession
-Republican Congress
-Predictions of problems
-Education
Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 5:08 pm.
Refreshment
Kirk's career
-Journalism
-Conservative views
Sanchez left at an unknown time before 5:57 pm.
Education
-Conservative critique
-Trend away from excellence
-Busing
-New policies
-Compensatory education
-George P. Shultz
-Elliot L. Richardson
-Future in US education
-Campus unrest
-Tricia Nixon Cox
-Edward R. F. Cox
*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 8s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
*****************************************************************
-Students for a Democratic Society [SDS]
-Convention
-Handling of various issues
-Racism, Vietnam, environment
-Current problems
-Vocational education
-Increased interest
-Liberal education
-Overemphasis
-Vocational education
-Necessity
-Danger of overemphasis
-National Education Association [NEA]
-Establishment views
-Dependence on money
-School principals
-Moderate views
-Search for alternatives
-Vocational training
-Increased opportunities
-Current programs
-Failures
-Vietnam protests
-Military draft
-Guilt complex
` -World War II
-Higher education
-Hard sciences
-Associate and assistant professors
-Greed
-Radicalism
-Emotionalism
-Improvements
-Undergraduates
-Faculties
-Power hunger
-Impersonality of large universities
-Undergraduates
-University of California at Berkeley
-New York
-Ohio State University
-Young instructors
-Insecurity
-Large universities
-Michigan State University
-Conservatism
-Radicalization
-Dormitory life
Future of US
-Vietnam, People’s Republic of China [PRC], Soviet Union
-Escalating demands
-Labor leaders, Frank E. Fitzsimmons, George Meany and Peter J. Brennan
-Support for national defense and morality
-Law and order
-James R. (“Jimmy”) Hoffa
-Business leaders
-Weaknesses
-Lack of character
-Events since 1954
-Great Society
-Civil rights movement
-Mishandling of race relations
-Daniel P. Moynihan
-Washington DC illegitimacy rate
-New York City
-Patriotism and idealism
-The President’s November 3, 1969 speech
-March on White House
-Cambodia
-Demonstrations
-Lack of support from media, intellectuals and businessmen
-Labor leaders
-Religious leaders
-Conservative Catholics
-Liberalism
-Catholics compared to protestants
-Fundamentalists
-Character
-Norman Vincent Peale
-William F. (“Billy”) Graham
-Southern Baptists
-Leader class
-Weakness
-People of US
-Support for national honor
-Heartland
-Leader class
-Weakness
-Businessmen, educators, opinion leaders, politicians
-Congress
-Decline
-Strength
-Southern conservatives
-Richard B. Russell and John C. Stennis
-Decline of family
-Reasons
-T. S. Eliot
-[Frank Nixon]
-Church
-Schools
-Education
-Decline
-Money
-Culture
-Influence of television
-Television
-Impact on children
*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 9s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
*****************************************************************
-PRC trip, moonshots, sports
-Compared to newspapers
-Poor quality of programs
-Changes
Education
-Non-public schools
-Tax relief
-The President's forthcoming speech in
Philadelphia
-Future
-Kirk's children
-School
-Influence of television
Future of US
-Moral leadership of president
-Impact
-Theodore Roosevelt
-Influence of television and media
-Decadence
-The President’s speech in Kansas City
-Extent
-Reversal
-Cycles
-Byzantine Empire
-Family assistance
-Work requirement
-Integration
-Forced integration
-Community decision
-Urban renewal
-Problems
-Martin C. Anderson
Environmental issues
-Importance
-Costs of clean-up
-Utilities
-Public support
Future of US
-Leader class
-Decline
-Businessmen
-Main Street leaders
-Rotary and Kiwanis Clubs
-Strength
-Lack of belief
-Lack of imagination
-Andrew Salvatore [sp?]
-Foundations
-Subversion of establishment
-Ford Foundation
-Kirk's early career
-Original purpose
-Decline of nations
-The masses
-Children
-Radicalism
-Decadence
-Replacement
-Ethnics
-Revitalization
-Compared with European nations
-Decline
-Reversal
-Parochial schools
-Lack of will
Social systems of the world
-Observations
-Soviet Union, Rumania, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Poland, East Germany and PRC
Other nations
-PRC, Soviet Union, West Germany and Japan
-Contrast with US
-Leader class
-Willingness to sacrifice
-Sense of destiny
*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 51s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
*****************************************************************
Kirk's columns
A Program for Conservatives
-The President’s reading
-The Commonweal
Literature
-Daniel P. (“Pat”) Moynihan and Henry A. Kissinger
-Kirk's favorite book
-Eliot's Notes Towards the Definition of Culture
-Patrick J. Buchanan
Kirk's wife [Annette Y. (Courtemanche) Kirk]
-Meeting with the President
-Home state
Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 5:08 pm.
Ronald L. Ziegler
Annette Kirk
Bull left at an unknown time before 5:57 pm.
Presidential gifts
-Cuff links
-Gold button
Rose Garden
-Flowers
-Blossoming
-Weather
AnnetteKirk entered at 5:57 pm. Bull and the White House photographer were present at the
beginning of the meeting.
Photographs
The Kirks' first meeting
Presidential gifts
-Compact and ash tray
Annette Kirk
-Political activities
-College
-Political activities
-Religion
-Russell Kirk
-Liberals
Presidential gifts
-Ash tray
-Presidential seal
-Compact
The Kirks' children
A Program for Conservatives
The President’s reading habits
-TV
-Eliot
-Annette Kirk's review of proofs
Annette Kirk
-College career
-Columbia University
-Linguistics
Education courses
Eliot
The Kirks' children
-Greetings
The Kirks left at 6:01 pm.Also recorded on April 4, 1972
- 702-003 3:11 PM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:11 pm to 3:12 pm.
- 702-004 3:12 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John K. Andrews, Jr. met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 3:12 pm and 3:45 pm.
- 702-005 3:12 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 3:12 pm and 3:45 pm.
- 702-006 3:12 PM · 14 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 3:12 pm and 3:45 pm.
- 702-007 3:45 PM · 1 hr 22 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, Alexander P. Butterfield, John N. Mitchell, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Manolo Sanchez, Charles Lucet, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:45 pm to 5:06 pm.
- 702-008 5:06 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:06 pm and 5:08 pm.
- 702-010 6:01 PM · 16 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the Oval Office of the White House from 6:01 pm to 6:18 pm.
- 702-011 6:18 PM · 2 min — United States Secret Service agents met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 6:18 pm and 8:13 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 702-009, April 4, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/702-009 (accessed October 12, 2026).