Conversation 702-009

TapeTape 702StartTuesday, April 4, 1972 at 5:08 PMEndTuesday, April 4, 1972 at 6:01 PMTape start time02:21:04Tape end time03:12:34ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Kirk, Russell A.;  Butterfield, Alexander P.;  White House photographer;  Sanchez, Manolo;  Bull, Stephen B.;  Kirk, AnnetteRecording deviceOval Office

On April 4, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Russell A. Kirk, Alexander P. Butterfield, White House photographer, Manolo Sanchez, Stephen B. Bull, and Annette Kirk met in the Oval Office of the White House from 5:08 pm to 6:01 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 702-009 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 702-9

Date: April 4, 1972
Time: 5:08 pm - 6:01 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Russell A. Kirk; Alexander P. Butterfield and the White House
photographer were present at the beginning of the meeting.

     Introduction and greetings

     [Photograph session]
          -Arrangements
          -Oliver F. (“Ollie”) Atkins
               -Saturday Evening Post

     Seating

     Kirk's residence
           -New York
                 -Last meeting with the President

Manolo Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 5:08 pm.

     Refreshment

Sanchez left at an unknown time before 5:57 pm.

     Meeting
          -Purpose
               -Discussion of Kirk's book, A Program for Conservatives

     Kirk's book
           -distribution
           -Relevance
           -Date of writing
                 -1950's
                       -Dwight D. Eisenhower administration
                       -Korean War
                       -Recession
                       -Republican Congress
           -Predictions of problems
                 -Education

Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 5:08 pm.

     Refreshment

     Kirk's career
           -Journalism
                -Conservative views

Sanchez left at an unknown time before 5:57 pm.

     Education
         -Conservative critique
               -Trend away from excellence
         -Busing
         -New policies
               -Compensatory education
                    -George P. Shultz
                    -Elliot L. Richardson
         -Future in US education
               -Campus unrest

              -Tricia Nixon Cox
                    -Edward R. F. Cox

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 8s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

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                    -Students for a Democratic Society [SDS]
                          -Convention
                          -Handling of various issues
                               -Racism, Vietnam, environment
         -Current problems
              -Vocational education
                    -Increased interest
              -Liberal education
                    -Overemphasis
         -Vocational education
              -Necessity
              -Danger of overemphasis
         -National Education Association [NEA]
              -Establishment views
                    -Dependence on money
         -School principals
              -Moderate views
              -Search for alternatives
         -Vocational training
              -Increased opportunities
              -Current programs
                    -Failures
         -Vietnam protests
              -Military draft
                    -Guilt complex
              `     -World War II
         -Higher education

          -Hard sciences
          -Associate and assistant professors
               -Greed
               -Radicalism
               -Emotionalism
          -Improvements
               -Undergraduates
          -Faculties
               -Power hunger
          -Impersonality of large universities
               -Undergraduates
               -University of California at Berkeley
               -New York
               -Ohio State University
               -Young instructors
                     -Insecurity
               -Large universities
                     -Michigan State University
                     -Conservatism
                     -Radicalization
                     -Dormitory life

Future of US
     -Vietnam, People’s Republic of China [PRC], Soviet Union
     -Escalating demands
     -Labor leaders, Frank E. Fitzsimmons, George Meany and Peter J. Brennan
           -Support for national defense and morality
           -Law and order
                 -James R. (“Jimmy”) Hoffa
     -Business leaders
           -Weaknesses
           -Lack of character
     -Events since 1954
           -Great Society
           -Civil rights movement
                 -Mishandling of race relations
                 -Daniel P. Moynihan
                 -Washington DC illegitimacy rate
                       -New York City
     -Patriotism and idealism
           -The President’s November 3, 1969 speech
           -March on White House
           -Cambodia

                    -Demonstrations
              -Lack of support from media, intellectuals and businessmen
              -Labor leaders
              -Religious leaders
                    -Conservative Catholics
                    -Liberalism
                          -Catholics compared to protestants
                    -Fundamentalists
                          -Character
                          -Norman Vincent Peale
                          -William F. (“Billy”) Graham
                          -Southern Baptists
              -Leader class
                    -Weakness
              -People of US
                    -Support for national honor
                    -Heartland
         -Leader class
              -Weakness
                    -Businessmen, educators, opinion leaders, politicians
              -Congress
                    -Decline
                    -Strength
                          -Southern conservatives
                                -Richard B. Russell and John C. Stennis
              -Decline of family
                    -Reasons
                          -T. S. Eliot
                          -[Frank Nixon]
                          -Church
                          -Schools
              -Education
              -Decline
                    -Money
                    -Culture
                          -Influence of television
         -Television
              -Impact on children

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[Personal returnable]

[Duration: 9s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2

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                  -PRC trip, moonshots, sports
                  -Compared to newspapers
                  -Poor quality of programs
                  -Changes

     Education
         -Non-public schools
               -Tax relief
                     -The President's forthcoming speech in
                      Philadelphia
               -Future
         -Kirk's children
               -School
         -Influence of television

     Future of US
          -Moral leadership of president
                -Impact
                      -Theodore Roosevelt
                -Influence of television and media
          -Decadence
                -The President’s speech in Kansas City
                -Extent
                -Reversal
                -Cycles
                      -Byzantine Empire
          -Family assistance
                -Work requirement
          -Integration
                -Forced integration
                      -Community decision
                -Urban renewal
                      -Problems
                           -Martin C. Anderson

Environmental issues
     -Importance
     -Costs of clean-up
     -Utilities
     -Public support

Future of US
     -Leader class
           -Decline
           -Businessmen
           -Main Street leaders
                -Rotary and Kiwanis Clubs
                -Strength
           -Lack of belief
           -Lack of imagination
           -Andrew Salvatore [sp?]
           -Foundations
                -Subversion of establishment
                      -Ford Foundation
                            -Kirk's early career
                            -Original purpose
           -Decline of nations
                -The masses
           -Children
                -Radicalism
                -Decadence
           -Replacement
                -Ethnics
                -Revitalization
                -Compared with European nations
     -Decline
           -Reversal
                -Parochial schools
           -Lack of will

Social systems of the world
     -Observations
           -Soviet Union, Rumania, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Poland, East Germany and PRC

Other nations
     -PRC, Soviet Union, West Germany and Japan
           -Contrast with US
                -Leader class

                -Willingness to sacrifice
                -Sense of destiny

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 51s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5

*****************************************************************

     Kirk's columns
     A Program for Conservatives
           -The President’s reading
           -The Commonweal

     Literature
           -Daniel P. (“Pat”) Moynihan and Henry A. Kissinger
           -Kirk's favorite book
                -Eliot's Notes Towards the Definition of Culture
                -Patrick J. Buchanan

     Kirk's wife [Annette Y. (Courtemanche) Kirk]
           -Meeting with the President
           -Home state

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 5:08 pm.

     Ronald L. Ziegler

     Annette Kirk

Bull left at an unknown time before 5:57 pm.

     Presidential gifts
          -Cuff links
          -Gold button

     Rose Garden
          -Flowers
               -Blossoming
               -Weather

AnnetteKirk entered at 5:57 pm. Bull and the White House photographer were present at the
beginning of the meeting.

     Photographs

     The Kirks' first meeting

     Presidential gifts
          -Compact and ash tray

     Annette Kirk
         -Political activities
         -College
         -Political activities
         -Religion
               -Russell Kirk
         -Liberals

     Presidential gifts
          -Ash tray
                -Presidential seal
          -Compact

     The Kirks' children

     A Program for Conservatives
          The President’s reading habits
                -TV
          -Eliot
          -Annette Kirk's review of proofs

     Annette Kirk
         -College career
               -Columbia University
                    -Linguistics

     Education courses

     Eliot

     The Kirks' children
          -Greetings

The Kirks left at 6:01 pm.

No transcript is available for this conversation. The audio may not contain audible speech, or the recording may not yet have been processed.