Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 705-013
Date: Monday, April 10, 1972 at 12:44 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.; Bull, Stephen B.; Sanchez, Manolo; Nixon, Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan); Dobrynin, Anatoliy F.; Ziegler, Ronald L.; White House operator
Recording device: Oval Office
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/705-013

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:00] Oh, we've got to bring in really well, right?
[0:03] Because that's what he said.
[0:05] Could he get a hold of that one?
[0:07] Could he get that one wrong?
[0:08] That's what he said this morning.
[0:13] What I said this morning.
[0:15] Oh, that'd be fascinating.
[0:17] That's how we're going to do it.
[0:21] Fascinating.
[0:22] But you always take that directly to your own matters.
[0:25] There's not any people on this thing.
[0:27] There's no chance.
[2:24] But he notified me that I don't bother you on every one of the bilateral issues.
[2:30] They've agreed to our proposition.
[2:35] They've sent us a flow of land.
[2:38] They've agreed to permit a hundred members of the press.
[2:48] Ziggler's pushing for more than a hundred.
[2:52] The Russians only do it for a hundred.
[2:54] Is that what they want?
[3:00] Yes.
[3:03] Is that all they want?
[3:04] That's what they just said.
[3:05] I just got a phone call.
[3:07] Good.
[3:08] And, oh, then he said personally, could I give him some briefing on your personal likes and dislikes?
[3:18] He's going back to Moscow this weekend, so this was all his plan.
[3:23] He was going to go to Moscow while I went to Japan.
[3:27] You can tell him you're not going to Japan?
[3:32] Not yet.
[3:33] There you go.
[3:33] Oh, you're going to Japan.
[3:35] No, no, I won't give him anything but to move.
[3:38] I can say that I very simply am.
[3:40] But I don't think I just don't want to create one.
[3:48] before he goes away
[4:22] That's the sort of thing.
[4:24] So if you agree, I'd like, may I set that up?
[4:33] Yes, by all means.
[4:36] We should probably, she's got to come and give me lunch this evening.
[4:42] She probably will tomorrow.
[4:44] She's going to Canada, so she has to be tomorrow afternoon.
[4:48] Yeah.
[4:58] But the purpose being, the freedom is going back.
[5:03] Therefore she can tell him what is needed.
[5:29] after uh four of the policy reasons that uh we'd like very much if you could see mrs after your lunch tomorrow tomorrow and about four o'clock or so would you be able to have the reason to sign back to moscow friday she isn't going back it's uh it's just what we want just give us kind of chat about the trip and so forth
[5:59] Well, how about making it five?
[6:02] Four-thirty?
[6:04] Fine.
[6:04] All right, then.
[6:05] Shall we call her at the out of time?
[6:07] Where do you want to receive her?
[6:08] Do you want to receive her in the yellow?
[6:11] Well, fine.
[6:12] If you'll do that, fine.
[6:15] All right, fine.
[6:17] Four-thirty.
[6:21] You can say to the listeners that I have a fatigue at 4.30, and if she'd appreciate any advice you have for her, tell her.
[6:35] Just say you're sick.
[6:36] Thank you.
[6:40] I mentioned to him, but as I had given him that shot, I shook hands with Cromer, and then shook hands with him.
[6:49] And I shook hands with him, and I said something to Cromer, well, good luck.
[6:53] And I said to him, my wife's looking forward to seeing us at the ring.
[6:57] That's why I said that.
[6:58] So that I said that I wanted the cameras to be sure to know what I was saying.
[7:02] So he was looking forward to seeing me tomorrow.
[7:09] I think Mr. President, it's the South Vietnamese hold now.
[7:21] But of course, I've sent every day, in your name, a message to, uh, to you, telling him what we were doing to suck up his morale.
[7:42] You can see all the people that have worked their asses off.
[7:47] I said that because I don't think Jerry spent all that money.
[8:09] It's a disgrace that you should do so much better with no preparation.
[8:14] Go ahead and be the last one.
[8:33] Hey.
[8:35] He's at the point.
[8:37] But we really, we really want...
[9:06] This is full of nuance, beautifully put, and I know that you have practically no time to prepare it at any time.
[9:33] It shows you how Lily lived with these guys.
[9:36] I called him yesterday morning, just to tell the little bureaucratics aboard to ask him about the B-52 truck.
[9:42] That's too early.
[9:44] Wait till things get worse.
[9:45] But he didn't want to lose it, Mr. Frank.
[9:48] Too early.
[9:51] It's going to get worse.
[9:55] I don't care.
[10:00] they limit arms they do not mean they have the war they are means to them that is peace
[10:33] It's not bad.
[11:02] But you really get to the guts of it when you prepare it.
[11:04] As far as that goes, we begin with one proposition.
[11:08] That is that each nation prove us very healthy through support for the use of grain.
[11:12] I didn't put that in, but you put it in.
[11:14] We must also recognize, see that goes back to China.
[11:16] That's right.
[11:18] We must also recognize another proposition, and that is that a great responsibility, that it particularly rests upon the great powers that I use, that every great power must follow the principle that it should not encourage, directly or indirectly, any other nation to force our nation against one of its neighbors.
[11:36] is these great pencils, which you must have mentioned.
[11:38] I'm not sure we have a word on these.
[11:40] These are not all of us will work for them.
[11:44] That isn't too bad, but even if you try to do that, the format isn't good.
[11:49] That's a huge, huge problem.
[11:54] It doesn't do it for us, except that it gets a high price.
[11:59] Uh, I think I'm sorry to keep, uh, conflicting.
[12:04] Uh, I talked to, uh, Mrs. Mason, and, uh, she will be delighted to have tea with Mr. Mason tomorrow afternoon at 4.30, at 4.30 at the White House, and the former president, Mrs. Mason, greatly appreciates the courtesy for making this appointment.
[12:30] Brother, I'm coming through the diplomatic entrance.
[12:37] We'll be out the same place you do, and then, that's right, and there'll be somebody there, and Mrs. Nixenberg and Peter, and Mrs. Fabricio and the family, and the president.
[12:49] Brother, thank you very much.
[12:56] It's a pleasure to meet you.
[12:58] Not at all.
[12:59] No, we appreciate what you're doing.
[13:02] Good.
[13:03] Thank you very much.
[13:05] In that case, if I call him, take two more minutes.
[13:08] If I call him and ask him how he's doing, I'd like to ask him to spend some time with the president.
[13:16] What you can tell your friends, one thing you can tell them is if you make a public proposal before the 23rd or 4th, we're assuming they're not serious.
[13:30] If they are serious, expect to make it to us, and we'll treat them decently.
[13:35] But if they try to bring public pressure on us, the only result will be that we will accelerate what we are doing, because it will foreshorten the time we have available.
[13:45] We will not hold still for these tsunami tactics.
[13:50] He said, what if they want to do both?
[13:51] I said, they can't do both.
[13:55] The President, we have...
[13:59] Yeah, but I think we have a chance now.
[14:01] We really have a chance.
[14:02] And Jerry has asked about it this morning.
[14:20] President Nixon took the opportunity of the biological war victory in Afghanistan, a ceremony to chastise the Soviet Union for its role in the Vietnam War.
[14:36] The Soviet Empire was living nearby.
[14:39] Nixon said that the rules made the nation better to fix their responsibilities, not to encourage other nations to use wars.
[14:46] It should not encourage directly or indirectly.
[14:48] That's the key thing.
[15:07] and so on and so forth.
[15:37] It's a massive thing.
[16:04] i've been here now
[17:05] We are beginning to follow, not harass.
[17:07] Every Soviet ship that approaches Hanoi will just fly over it and occasionally tend to destroy it after it, as if we were practicing interceptions.
[17:20] But we won't come close.
[17:21] I mean, they can't object to it.
[17:27] And we are loading mines again.
[17:32] You're going to come out.
[17:36] You see, anything you do now, they made a horrible mistake.
[18:03] They should have done it after the Moscow summit, because anything you do now you can wipe away with the Moscow summit.
[18:12] The Soviets aren't going to cancel the summit, inconceivable.
[18:21] You understand.
[18:22] But you come to Moscow having stared down Hanoi.
[18:26] If we come to Moscow, then having crushed South Vietnam, we can't go anywhere.
[18:32] There's no way.
[18:33] There's no way you can let go.
[18:35] But I don't think...
[18:36] If we can hold another...
[18:38] The U.S., we think it's just a world power.
[18:39] You said that.
[18:40] It isn't like the British before the war.
[18:43] People told me about that.
[18:45] It isn't like the French before the war.
[18:49] my point is
[19:11] It really is a test.
[19:13] It's a test like the Spanish Civil War narrows.
[19:17] And that's a different era given time.
[19:19] But it's really a test as to whether a nation supported by its Soviet arms is allowed to get away with a nation Christian.
[19:29] And if they get away with negative aggression, they're going to try an action in the Middle East?
[19:33] You know goddamn well they will.
[19:34] That's right.
[19:36] Because I told them, really, yesterday, if you're going to play this game, let me be honest with you.
[19:40] Supposing we started pouring weapons into Israel and told them there are no restrictions, how long do you think your friends could last?
[19:47] Then you would say, our problem in the Middle East, that's the world we're going to be in.
[19:55] Now, this is the best month for it to happen.
[19:58] The Soviets
[19:59] If the Soviets start a major crisis with us, their Berlin Treaties are down the drain.
[20:04] He knows that.
[20:05] That's right.
[20:05] So they visit the Berlin Treaties.
[20:10] Two phone calls, and I'll ruin them.
[20:13] Let Ken Rush and I, between us, could ruin those treaties in one afternoon.
[20:20] Oh, yeah.
[20:20] So...
[20:25] I think you should have a sense of what the gang may have.
[20:46] Maybe I'll drop over and talk to her for five or ten minutes, or call her on the phone.
[20:51] I was going to take my parents to Kennedy Center, but that isn't necessary until 7.15.
[21:05] So at six, I'd be happy to drop in.
[21:13] Let's say quarter six, is that better?
[21:15] Yes.
[21:17] Drop over to quarter six, I will finish the NAB.
[21:19] Could I bring my parents five or five minutes of afternoon?
[21:44] well i have to be here for this meeting i would say around 4 30. okay i have to see if i have to look at the nap and five
[22:10] Good.
[22:11] Thank you.