Conversation 708-009

TapeTape 708StartThursday, April 13, 1972 at 4:37 PMEndThursday, April 13, 1972 at 4:46 PMTape start time00:30:09Tape end time00:40:52ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Woods, Rose Mary;  Kissinger, Henry A.;  White House operatorRecording deviceOval Office

President Nixon, Rose Mary Woods, and Henry Kissinger met to finalize the President's upcoming speech for his trip to Canada and coordinate congressional relations. Following Woods's departure, Kissinger briefed the President on securing public and congressional support for the war in Vietnam, specifically regarding the efforts of Representatives F. Edward Hebert, George H. Mahon, and John C. Stennis. The discussion focused heavily on the strategic necessity of upcoming air strikes against petroleum, oil, and lubricant (POL) dumps in Haiphong, with Kissinger detailing operational plans and the perceived effectiveness of previous military actions in Laos and Cambodia.

Vietnam WarCanada tripAir strikesCongressional relationsHaiphongForeign policy

On April 13, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Rose Mary Woods, Henry A. Kissinger, and the White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:37 pm to 4:46 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 708-009 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 708-9

Date: April 13, 1972
Time: 4:37 pm - 4:46 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Rose Mary Woods.

       The President's Canadian speech
            -Draft
                  -Typing
                        -Airplane
                  -Changes
                        -Place
                        -Press copy
                              -Deletion
            -The President's meeting with Lt. Gen. Vernon A. Walters
                  -Instruction in French language

       The President's trip o Canada
            -Dinner
                  -Attire
            -Scheduling

       Weather

Henry A. Kissinger entered at 4:38 pm.

       The President's trip to Canada
            -Speech
                  -Kissinger's review
                  -Deletion
                  -Draft
                          -Press copy

Woods left at 4:40 pm.

       Vietnam
            -George H. Mahon
            -John C. Stennis
                  -Briefing
            -F. Edward Hebert
                  -Julie Nixon Eisenhower
                  -Speech
                         -Press
                  -Call from Kissinger
            -US policies
                  -Public support
            -Kissinger's briefing
                  -Mahon
                         -Support for US policies
            -Haiphong
                  -Air strikes
                         -Petroleum, oil, lubricants [POL] dumps
                         -Timing
                               -Current plans
                               -People's Republic of China [PRC] and Soviet Union
                         -Necessity
                               -Lyndon B. Johnson and W[illiam] Averell Harriman
                         -Effectiveness
            -Cambodia operation
                  -Melvin R. Laird
                         -Conversation with Kissinger
            -Laos operation
                  -Effectiveness
                  -North Vietnamese tank losses
                  -Gen. Creighton W. Abrams, Jr.
            -Haiphong
                  -Target
                         -POL dumps
                         -Truck parks
                  -Air strikes
                         -Aircraft
                               -Number
                         -B-52s
                               -Surface to air missile [SAMs]

                                     -Effectiveness
                                           -Gen. Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
             -Casualties
                  -Rate
                  -Comparisons

       William P. Rogers
             -Kissinger's call
                   -Schedule
                         -United Nations [UN]

Kissinger talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 4:40 and 4:46 pm.

[Conversation no. 708-9A]

[See Conversation no. 22-123]

[End of telephone conversation]

       Vietnam
            -Kissinger's call to Hebert
                  -Thanks for support

       The President's trip to Canada

Kissinger talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 4:40 and 4:46 pm.

[Conversation No. 708-9B]

[See Conversation No. 22-124]

[End of telephone conversation]

       The President's Canadian speech
            -Soviets

       Rogers

       Rogers's testimony

       Kissinger's call from Albert Stein

             -US bombing

Kissinger left at 4:46 pm.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

on the press copy, but they won't give, they're not gonna go until, you know, tonight or tomorrow morning.
Yeah, I may be one more sentence up.
I'm sorry, but I'm gonna go over to the French part.
Oh, okay.
To teach you my French.
Oh, that's good.
Before I go to Canada's opinion that I didn't.
It's gonna be awfully hard for you right now to do that.
Well, I'm just, I'm just, it's been a while since I've been here.
It's been hard.
by the way, tomorrow night's too easy.
I've got a four-hour P.R.
training, and I can come straight into a village.
It's an outback, an easy trip.
Well, then, get it out of the way.
You have to do it sometime.
And the sun's out now.
I'm glad.
I was like, it's your turn.
I have to tell you, I did not know these young people when they came in.
I didn't think spring would ever come.
Oh, here's Henry, who's a queer right now.
I have one in here.
You have one?
Henry, could I ask you about one other sentence that I thought you wanted to take out?
I'll turn on this side.
Okay.
You remember we start here, don't we?
Now, we could take this out, too, if you want.
If you want to, that's the only other thing.
You see, we've taken this sentence off.
That's fine.
But you see what I mean?
It's on here to here.
You know, what I almost think.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Maybe that one, then.
The second one.
I hope.
Yeah.
Well, no.
No, I think the first one is true.
And you've got a counter, will you?
Yeah, I'll take a counter.
Yeah.
That's one.
All right.
All right.
But, uh, it's fine until you see that.
Excuse me.
I'll read the Congress in May.
People here, girls.
I said, I gave him a very good time.
And he said, I tell you, I had no idea.
So Little Dove sent him into Congress in 67.
I said, uh, you
But you also, you feel you've covered standards, haven't you?
You do.
A-barrier, would there be any way you could, yeah.
I guess that's really fun, just talking on the phone.
He, according to my daughter, was .
And he spoke out very strongly.
And he said, look, he says that he, I just want to say this to the members of the correction, pointed out that there are a few in Vietnam that don't want to serve.
He says, when we send a new carrier out there, there's a hundred seamen volunteered to go out there.
And he said, I wish we could print some of that sometime.
And I think if you could just call Hebert, it could take you one minute, on the phone, and says, the President heard what you said, and we just want you to know that he appreciates your support during this time.
I think we've got the country with us this time, at least for a while, and now all we need is to last a week.
Mahon said he'd never heard of it.
He was practically in tears, and we briefed him before, when he would reluctantly go along because he was very patient.
He transposed my act, and he said, back to the president for me.
I told him what you had done, and so on and so forth.
You did.
That goes on and so forth.
I can do it better.
I know.
You can't do it with my presence, but you can do it yourself.
And he said we were doing the right thing.
Absolutely.
He said, just make sure you go after high farms.
Everybody gets so high in that way.
But we're getting the P.O.L.
in high farms.
Now, Mr. President, we have to give them the choice of going Saturday or Sunday afternoon.
I know from PR talk to you it would be better not to hit the Sunday papers.
My worry is that we tell them Sunday that bad weather closes and we shouldn't do it too close to my leaving.
If we hit them, the way I have it programmed is that the hour they hit them, we hit them.
We'll hand a note to both the Chinese and the Russians saying this is now not going to be done again until the meeting on the 24th.
I suppose that we're doing exactly what we have to do here.
We're taking a gamble.
President Huber, Huber, Johnson, or Harrington, the safe thing is now to sit tight.
The seemingly safe thing.
But the seemingly safe thing also would have been Leopold again on the phone telling me, I just want you to know we can win at the South.
I said, Mel, I know.
I know.
They're not playing slow rhythm in the South.
Did you tell him we were playing a...
I said, Mel, they're playing a big game.
Have confidence in us.
The president knows exactly what he's doing.
He said, yes, I just want you to know, though.
But he said to the fun camp, oh, do you remember when he said, we put it one with... Yeah, we didn't.
After it was over, he said, we didn't.
He said, it's good.
He said, we didn't.
I tell you, Mr. President, if they had those caches, those in Cambodia, we would now have, in military region three, you know, we'd have Saigon.
We'd be in an impossible situation.
And also, if we hadn't hit Laos, we would have had this hit last year.
If we hadn't hit Laos, we would have had this either last year or so early this year that we would have been in desperate trouble.
Plus all the tanks they lost in Laos that they wouldn't have had available, they wouldn't have been up.
The only tragedy is if Abrams hadn't screwed up Laos, we wouldn't have this one this year.
P.O.L.
P.O.L.
is truck power.
And it's going to be a really massive effort, about 200 tactic layer and about 40 T-52s.
B-52s out there, I suppose there is a considerable danger, isn't there?
To them?
No.
What about sands?
They've got that... We haven't lost a plane to a sand since the first day.
They are... Hey, they're rusty out there.
They haven't fired those sands in a long time.
They're going to be saturated.
By the time the B-52s go in, they'll be saturated.
I see the catchments were at 13, that's right.
Well...
This would... Well...
compared to the past or compared to last year.
Yes.
But Mr. President, I...
If you call Robert, you should tell him to go to the U.S.
I'm just about to do that.
Give me a second to call.
I mean, you can call Avery from Canada.
What do you want me to do there?
You're going to say you're calling from Canada and on the plane out, and the President is saying he wants you to appreciate your support of something, doesn't he?
Well, we need this Canadian for like a whole year right now.
What the heck?
Well, I guess there's a different deadline for it then.
Only a deadline.
There's a little say it can.
Hello?
Oh, he spoke with Chief.
Good, I'll get him on the phone.
Well, he didn't want to testify.
That's what I meant.
I don't want him to testify because he'll be too soft, because he just doesn't give a convincing.
Yeah, but let's give him the excuse of getting the hell out.
Albert Stein, he called me and told me to find out who he was.
Who?
Albert Stein.
Oh, he's going to tell you to quit bombing.
Yeah.
Take a tough one, Henry.
Oh.
Drag it in.
Do you have more of this here?