Nixon alone in the Oval Office on Vietnam War and Easter Offensive

0:00Thank you.
16:41Okay.
21:53We have another table from May.
21:56It says, obviously the fat is on the fire at Yuan.
22:04We will need the coolest of nerve from here on.
22:06And from my perspective, it is essential that we continue to play our hand with the utmost calm and confidence.
22:12As you know, several occasions in the past have involved similar risk-taking, although there has been less opportunity for events to be influenced by it.
22:21of uncertainty in the domestic scene.
22:23On balance, the military situation here is now well under control.
22:28As I reported yesterday, in the near term, the enemy will only suffer severe setbacks, and then the rest is all technical stuff.
22:37And we discussed with Abrams this idea of a troop withdrawal of 20,000, of an announcement which would get us down to five actualizers, which would get us down to
22:50Maybe we could say we've withdrawn 500,000 troops.
22:54And he thinks it can be done, but he wants to let me know tomorrow.
22:59And Dad, I would recommend you now get your press conference.
23:02Do you have one next week?
23:05Yeah, yeah, no, we don't.
23:07Now, last night after you had retired, the premium came in with the Russian message, which he said since they don't want to say too much publicly, but rather...
23:20tough, it doesn't have any concrete things, but after five pages of tough talk, which is standard tough talk, he said, they've transmitted our considerations to Hanoi and will give us a reply as soon as, which is amazing, because in the past they always took the position that they were.
23:49My recommendation is that we say to this, there will be no answer.
23:53They know what our policy is, and we are just going to pursue it.
23:59And if that's going to be their attitude, I can tell them now nothing will come out of the discussion.
24:04I think it puts us domestically
24:19the reasons you have for deciding to go.
24:24I don't agree that it's two for them and one for us.
24:26It's two for us and almost nothing for them.
24:28And what do they get out of it?
24:31They receive me three days after we bomb Hanoi and I bomb.
24:37In any event, as far as the reading game comes in, the premieres are still on.
24:43Yeah.
24:43Oh, yeah, they didn't do anything.
24:46It's just...
24:48What I think they did, Mr. President, is to send this first part to Hanoi to say, to show, because publicly they've been rather mild.
24:58The CIA, as I say, Chinese have been mild.
25:03I thought Joe Biden was too bad.
25:07Very mild.
26:55Now, one thought that we have, I hope Ralph just goes in there determined and tough.
27:00This is the one...
27:01I don't know what we could do.
27:07I don't know whether you want to give him a call.
27:09I had him talk to me last night, but only very briefly.
27:12I assumed everything.
27:14He said he'd gotten all the information.
27:17We're about 7.30, and apparently you talked to him.
27:21Yes.
27:22And...
27:32Secretary Rogers, please.
27:40I think it'd be tough and determined.
27:42Now, today, the North Vietnamese announced that they were prepared to send deductible back to Paris to resume plenary sessions.
27:53If we resume plenary sessions.
27:56And, however, the requirement is that the bombing starts.
27:59Well, that's the very thing Porter predicted.
28:03I think the only thing new I see this morning is this...
28:18or silly suggestion, then our people may say they'll suddenly have to go back to Paris to resume discussions, if the bombing stops.
28:26Well, of course, that is not the bombing that they would ever see.
28:32But one point I did want to say on the curtain is that it would be a play in a way that would keep them guessing.
28:42Obviously, I don't know whether any of these members of the committee will
28:48so that we'll have noted the very potential movement of naval ships.
28:54Having noted it, they might ask you about a blockade.
28:57If they do, I would leave it variable, because it is something that
29:02we may have to move to quite soon.
29:03And so I just say, well, I just, you know what I mean?
29:07It's a military decision, and we wish necessary.
29:11So that's the one thing.
29:13And I wouldn't want, in other words, you to get in a position where we had to go, but look as if we had backed down from something you said.
29:22Oh, well, that should be ruled out.
29:25That has been done here, but you can say, well, as Mr. Ziegler said, and I have too a number of cases of nuclear weapons are neither necessary nor advisable in this part of the world, but we will do what is necessary against military targets to stop the killing of North Vietnamese and Americans in the South and South Indians in the South.
29:44That's sort of the cliche I get.
29:59That's why we're not going to, we're not going to reintroduce, we're not going to ask for, like, grounding.
30:05Because, and I put that very positively, let's say that the South Vietnamese now are trained and are undertaking the ground fighting.
30:14They're fighting very courageously.
30:15They're doing very well.
30:16Also, I think you might point out that in that respect, if you would,
30:21The fact that if they say, well, it's the air thing going on here, and I look here, of course, it will stop the moment we get this thing over.
30:27But the South Vietnamese are fighting half of the tactical airport.
30:31I'm sorry, since I told you.
30:33I sent that figure over to you.
30:47Yeah.
30:51We have replied.
30:55Yeah.
30:56Yeah.
30:56It was clear this morning.
30:58It was clear this morning.
31:00Yeah.
31:00I've been in here some time.
31:03We may get into the Soviet protest.
31:05Oh, yeah.
31:05Yeah.
31:05Yeah.
31:16No, that's right.
31:17But we've already replied.
31:18We've already replied.
31:19Incidentally, both the Soviet and the Chinese protests are just looking at the CIA analysis.
31:24They're just routine stuff.
31:26I mean, they don't say they're going to send in forces and all that sort of thing.
31:37Well, the most important thing is to have in mind the fact that
31:44uh they will ask you about some and i think you're just you sail there well we have no we're going forward with our plan we uh we're good because uh they it's it's a we should see you'll see i don't know there is nothing happened from my opinion because they've got an efficient product except that we might have to cancel it that's the problem
32:08But that's not their problem.
32:10Well, good luck.
32:12You'll have a good one.
32:13I think that the stronger position you can take, I mean, not the literature, but you know, just, but in any fact, I think that's the point.
32:20It's that, well, we're doing what we can.
32:22Also, I think it's, I think as I told you, I talked to
32:27really great that I mentioned that to you.
32:31Well, he called me yesterday and he had talked to the chancellor of the University of North Carolina, you know, I live with those people.
32:37The chancellor had said, you know, I wish you'd tell the president you're talking
32:43I think we're going to have some student problems, but it's not like before, he said, because this one is not an invasion of another country.
32:52Second, he said, and he made the two points that we made, he said, our students now, even those that are not for the president,
33:01to believe he's really tried.
33:03He's withdrawn 500,000 people.
33:05He's gone with China.
33:06He's gone to the Soviet Union.
33:07He's made an offer.
33:09You know, he's privately and publicly.
33:11And then for them to offer this with stepping up the fighting, then what else can we do?
33:15Sort of that sort of thing.
33:17Yeah.
33:24Well, how did you read it?
33:26I just saw the paper this morning.
33:29I haven't read the ground things.
33:31It looked like it's holding on.
33:35Well, let me say it.
33:40I'd be sure to let the boys know that it
33:48Of course, we've got plenty of bombing stuff out there now, and Abrams is going to use it right up to the hill in the battle area from now on.
34:00All military targets, and it is the God's truth that they're not limiting people.
34:09You see what I mean?
34:11Sometimes you can get that somewhat more subtle way.
34:14Beautiful.
34:15You can get the blockade.
34:16You've got to be tough or you'll look like a horse.
34:18You've got to blockade because, you know, that's illegal.
34:23You don't want to be illegal.
34:24You're in a war.
34:26Huh?
34:27You understand?
34:28Oh, yeah.
34:29I think it's beautiful.
34:31Mr. Bender, I think...
34:32But it's quite true.
34:33I say I don't like the blockade.
34:35Don't you think I'm just guessing about it?
34:39I'm totally committed to blockade at the end of this week.
34:43You've done.
34:44Well, we have to wait till I get back from Moscow.
34:46That's the end of this week.
34:48No, I'll be back Sunday night.
34:50That's the end of this week.
34:51Oh, right.
34:52I mean, as soon as you get back from Moscow, if that's a hard line, Richard, and to blockade him.
34:59Mr. President, I think what you've always done, what you said you would do, and I...
35:08have every, no, I think that's what you will do, and I think that's what you should do.
35:13You see, if you, when you really carry out an energy error to the extreme, your analysis, that you can't have the North Vietnamese destroy two presidents, then that, it isn't really quite on all fours, because Johnson destroyed himself, and in my case, I do not do it that way, and I would do it for, frankly, the good of the country.
35:35Nevertheless.
35:36No, but that is for the good of the country.
35:38That's why I'm saying it, Mr. President, with all my loyalty.
35:42I think we cannot have these little, little things that destroy confidence in our government.
35:48Well, anyway, I'm going to tell you this.
35:52If I can mention a country, see, let me be quite clear.
36:02Kennedy, even leading a nation that was infinitely stronger than any potential enemy, was unable to conduct a very successful foreign policy because he lacked iron nerves and lacked good advisors.
36:20Johnson was in the same position for other reasons because he didn't have any experience.
36:32because of the, what's happening here in the rest, I mean, that there is a very good chance, and it doesn't bother me one damn bit, I'm a personal senator, there's a very good chance that sitting in this chair could be somebody else.
36:53It could be a Muskie, it could be a Humphrey, it could be a Teddy, one of those three on the Democratic side.
36:58On the Republican side,
37:01It won't be that he could have raped anybody.
37:05Rockefeller probably didn't get the nomination.
37:07I don't know who they would nominate.
37:09But nevertheless, it could be.
37:10But here's the point.
37:14I know that I have to leave this office in a position as strong as I possibly can, because whoever succeeds me, either because of lack of experience or because of lack of character, guts,
37:33having a weaker united states would surrender the whole thing you understand i know that is why that is why what i have to do i have to do it not only to assure that if i'm here we can conduct a suggestive foreign policy i have to do it and this is even more important so that some four weeks on the bench sitting here with the best intentions to conduct
37:56It'll be hard enough to put him in his chair.
37:59It'll be hard enough for him to conduct a foreign policy in the United States that's not the hell of a subject.
38:05It'll be very hard because he's a jibbering idiot at times.
38:09Well-intentioned, but jibbering.
38:11Must he?
38:12Let's prove that he has no character.
38:15And Teddy is, well, an unbelievable one.
38:19It's up and down.
38:21Well, now what the hell can you do?
38:23So you cannot leave, you just can't leave the thing.
38:26Now, under these circumstances, as I've often said, it may be that I'm the last person in this office for some time until somebody else is developed along the same lines.
38:40I mean, it was tough, and experienced.
38:43who will be able to conduct strong, responsible foreign policy.
38:47So that will happen.
38:47We're going to do it.
38:49And that means, that means take every risk, lose every election.
38:53That's what I'm going to do.
38:56Now, people say, oh, well, if you win, you're going to lose your right.
38:59I'm not sure.
39:00But the main point is, we have no choice, you see.
39:04Foreign policy in the United States will not be viable if we're run out of Vietnam.
39:08That's all there is to it.
39:12That is exactly my point.
39:14Selfish, short-sighted, personal point of view.
39:17Your incentive is not to do it.
39:21And my incentive is, I have let it sink.
39:27All these great foreign policy initiatives were shown, too.
39:29Exactly.
39:30And if one were concerned about public position, one would say, one could remain... Generation fees, all that stuff.
39:39Although, Mr. President, I must say one thing.
39:41You're taking less heat this week than you would if we waited for.
39:46The first week, the worst heat we took, it began to build up, was...
39:51when all these little pipsqueaks were saying Vietnamization was a failure, and the fact is, South Vietnamese have healthy guys, and they couldn't have healthy guys.
40:06I ask one question.
40:11We should not make, and I hope you had somebody tell our staff this, we should not make, let me put it this way,
40:22Don't set up any Burgundians out there.
40:25That's what the goddamn French did.
40:30The war went on too long because of Burgundians.
40:32And also the Germans made a mistake, too.
40:35The point of, you don't set up any Burgundians.
40:38And the way it's now created, the Burgundians, Locke's goddamn here at Burgundians.
40:41It doesn't make any difference where Amlock goes.
40:44Who would make a difference, Mr. President?
40:46Amlock, doesn't it?
40:48Let's not say it.
40:49The way it goes.
40:50That was a great mistake.
40:51Whoever sent this to the New York Times fellow, that was a very, very wrong thing to do.
40:55It was a great mistake to talk to the New York Times fellow.
40:57I agree.
40:58The New York Times, incidentally, has a very rather pleasant article about you this week.
41:04What?
41:05In life, of how you're handling the crisis.
41:08And, uh... What's his law?
41:12Well, that you're calm and, uh... You have no reason to know.
41:15That you, uh...
41:19In fact, he got something that I gave to Cherry Schecter when you had said to me, when I had said to you, it now will go one way or the other, and you had said it now, it will only go one way.
41:30I had told this Schecter last week when I saw him in Florida.
41:34He apparently, he didn't use it in his story, so he decided he must have read it.
41:37What I want you to do with time, if you will, is to play Schecter.
41:41Absolutely.
41:42He's a nice little dog, and he's smart, and he's very pleasant.
41:47See my friend?
41:50I don't know who to blame at the Times, except some people.
41:54Maybe Frankel.
41:56Frankel is a... Now, listen, Frankel, you want to remember this, too.
42:00And it's true.
42:01Now, God damn it.
42:03Mrs. Mayer knows this.
42:06I think you ought to tell Ruby.
42:09You've heard the President say it.
42:10I want you to give Ruby a hand and say you've heard the President say it.
42:14To the leaders, he said it a dozen times at once.
42:17And I always start with Israel, and then I go to the deal.
42:20But I say, if the United States fails Vietnam, if a Soviet-supported invasion succeeds there, it will inevitably be next tried in the Middle East, and the United States will not stand there either.
42:38That's what's on the line.
42:39And they should know that, and I think we ought to get some of our Israeli friends to start supporting us.
42:45I think so.
42:48I'll call Rafin.
42:49Now, to go through immediate tactical issues, do you agree, Mr. President, that I call in Dobrynin and say there's not going to be any reply to this?
42:58The President is determined.
43:00You know his course.
43:01There's no sense in gazing in rhetoric.
43:03And we will not reply to this, and I must tell you informally, if this is what you're going to say to him in Moscow, my trip is going to be a waste of time.
43:14because we will not be able to make progress.
43:15It's just the usual thing, which has gotten longer.
43:18Oh, yeah.
43:19They have to do it, Mr. President.
43:20And just say it.
43:22Just say it.
43:23We did it.
43:24Why don't you do it more like I talked to Joe and I?
43:26Look, the president read this and rather smiled.
43:30Look, he smiled and said, well, that's, he said, they have to say this.
43:35And then he turned cold and said it.
43:39There will be no reply to this.
43:41If the Russians want to talk this out, fine.
43:43If they want to talk this way, there's going to be a sign.
43:47I'd be very proud.
43:50Because I'd very much like to see Johann Strauss.
43:52I like the old part.
43:57I should think that's the way we play it.
44:01Absolutely.
44:01So that's the reason he's actually a player.
44:04Oh, to bring in.
44:05When he said, I'll bring you this, you'd understand we have to do this in confidential channels, because we're not saying much in public channels.
44:12Well, Bill asked me whether or not we had responded to the Russian.
44:18He had sent over a cable for clearance.
44:21And I held it last night because it was just too anxious saying you had retired, which was true.
44:26And that you would clear it in the morning, and what you said was yes.
44:29I mean, what you said was exactly right.
44:33You cleared it in the morning, this morning.
44:38Let me take you on your trip.
44:40I realize it's not true for them and not for us.
44:46In terms of cosmetics.
44:49It may be true for them, one, for us and other charmers, but nevertheless, it's basically because looking at their big game, the China game, what they want is Henry Kissinger in Moscow because he went to China.
45:04Oh, yeah.
45:04I see.
45:05That's what's in it for that man.
45:06You've got to realize, you don't understand what the hell we're giving those sons of bitches.
45:10Now, the other point I make, Henry, is however,
45:13We're doing it for our own reasons.
45:14Our own reasons are, you're going to go, and then we'll blow it.
45:19And I'll blow it.
45:21I almost said maybe the day you come back, I might blow it in the press conference.
45:24I knew about the press conferences.
45:26I wonder if that would really take the sons of bitches right off the whim of the press conference I'm announcing today with a further withdrawal of Americans and so on and so on.
45:36In the meantime, we're going to continue this.
45:38I might make a brief four or five minute statement about Vietnam and then let the bastards
45:44I think, Mr. President, you may want to consider either going on television for five minutes announcing I've been there.
46:04It will throw your Democratic opponents into a cocktail.
46:07They won't even know what to do with it.
46:11and particularly if they produce a North Vietnamese in Moscow.
46:18Listen, if they produce anything, if I announce that you've been to Moscow discussing this, what the hell are they going to do then?
46:28That's right.
46:29And so... Let me tell you, I am convinced, though, that, well, we'll talk about this,
46:38briefly, I will go to Camp David Thursday night.
46:41I'll be there, and you will be at Camp David, and nobody's going to know that you aren't there.
46:45You understand that?
46:46Could you stay into Monday?
46:48I'm going to stay right through Sunday and Monday, right?
46:51Good.
46:51I'll stay there, and I'll come down.
46:53I'll come down on Monday to Camp David and see what I find.
46:57What do you mean?
46:58I'll stay through Monday.
47:00I'll stay all day Monday.
47:02Well, one thing we could do is, Mr. President, is that when I arrive in Andrews,
47:06I come right up to Camp David and fly back with you.
47:09Good.
47:09Monday?
47:10I'll come back if there's a meeting in Paris.
47:14I come back Monday night.
47:15If there's no meeting in Paris, I come back Sunday night.
47:19Fine.
47:19Okay, good.
47:20I'll stay through Monday if there's a meeting in Paris.
47:22And then I'll come up and come back with you.
47:24That's right.
47:25And we've covered it totally.
47:27But we may not want to cover it totally.
47:30Well, you should be the one that closes, rather than...
47:34The point is that we should have a meeting here, exactly.
47:39You will not be ready until Wednesday morning to discuss what you're going to say in Moscow.
47:43Well, I have my people actually.
47:46I have to meet with them now to go over.
47:48Wednesday morning, right.
47:50Wednesday morning or Wednesday afternoon?
47:52Wednesday morning is fine.
47:54No, Wednesday morning gives me a chance to redo whatever is suggested.
47:59Wednesday morning was the downpour of things.
48:01Now, it may be in Camp David, it may be here.
48:05But one slight advantage of doing it here, Mr. President, is that I'm going to be away on Thursday anyway.
48:11With the argument that I'm in Camp David with you, it might be a little better, but either way we can do it.
48:21Well, I'll be here.
48:23We'll meet here.
48:26I think that with the Russians...
48:30There's one weakness in our game plan, and what's that like?
48:34We haven't got a goddamn thing we can do this week.
48:37No, no.
48:38First of all, we are holding in the South, Mr. President.
48:41Are you saying we are holding?
48:42Oh, yes.
48:44And that's the burden for them.
48:46And that's where each other are, you know, holding.
48:50I don't know.
48:50I think it's...
48:53I think it isn't temporary.
48:56But secondly, we are bombing the southern part of North Vietnam intensively.
49:02Is there any bombing that you could do?
49:05Can you even pattern this week so that it looks like it's a different kind of strike?
49:10Because that's something that'd be done if we have another B-3 type strike, just so it's a...
49:15In the south or in the north?
49:16In the south.
49:18Oh, in the southeast.
49:19Yeah.
49:19I would like, I think what I meant is I want something that can be described as a massive different kind of a strike.
49:26Is there any place where you think we could do it?
49:28I'll get a message right on it.
49:30put it this way, that this week, you see what I mean?
49:33I don't want you to go over there.
49:35Well, very frankly, people won't know you're there.
49:38I don't want the people here to get the impression.
49:42You see what we're up against.
49:43But next week, they'll know why you did it.
49:45I know, but this week, they'll be right.
49:47Because of Russian and Chinese protests, the United States is going to do it again.
49:51See my point?
49:52We can't be in that position.
49:55We can ride a week of it again.
49:56We can ride a week of it.
49:58If they accuse you of being both too tough and too soft at the same time, and then next week, I think if we can avoid, I mean, we've really put it brutally to them.
50:09We haven't shown any softness, and they know.
50:12I mean, they know you now, Mr. President.
50:14They know when I come back without anything to show for it, we're going to blow the lid off, particularly having proof that we've made every effort.
50:29Now, the last thing you should consider when you're preparing your Wednesday dinner.
50:37You see, the deep down decision you've got to make is whether you want to conduct a Moscow talk in a way that will enable us to have a Moscow song, or in a way that will make it leave us no choice but to blockade
50:57and push the summit.
50:58Now, there's one point that's very important.
50:59If the summit is canceled, I want to cancel it.
51:03I don't want that.
51:04That's what I would like to say.
51:06What I would like to say, Mr. President, is that I think we should conduct the summit part of the talks in a very conciliatory and forthcoming manner in such a way that they get a maximum pending after
51:24After the summit.
51:27On the Vietnam thing, on the other hand, we should be tough as nails.
51:32Because a middle position, we will not impress these guys with conciliatoriness.
51:37They were not passing messages while Johnson was drooling all over them.
51:42So I think we should do both simultaneously.
51:45On Vietnam, we should be very tough.
51:48What I'm playing with now... What do we get out?
51:50What do we get out?
51:51What do we...
51:51Sorry.
51:52Well, what I think, if we are... We certainly are going to have a ceasefire while we're in Moscow.
51:56That's my point.
51:58Oh, one outcome, Mr. President, that I think we might get is to say, to offer to the Russians, we'll go back to the conditions of May, of March 29th.
52:08That is to say, the North Vietnamese withdraw the three divisions they put across the DMZ, north of the DMZ.
52:15Uh...
52:16They scaled down their military actions to the levels they were on March 29th.
52:22This is guaranteed by the Soviets.
52:26We, in turn, stopped the bombing of the North and we resumed plenary sessions in Paris.
52:33That would be a damn good deal, Mr. President.
52:35That would be such a defeat for the North Vietnamese if they had to stop their offensive.
52:40And it makes us look damn good in domestic opinion.
52:44You can draw across the DMC, those horses across the DMC, and we'll stop the bombing of the North.
52:52Because we will have had...
52:56They have to scale down the military.
52:57We will have had to deal with the lack of the North at that time.
53:02Well, I hope, I trust, though, that means that Abrams has got a shellac that north right now, right over out there.
53:09You've done it, have you?
53:09You've got enough horses there, you see?
53:13Mr. President.
53:13Is there any more horses we can send out there?
53:16Is there anything left?
53:17We've got horses left.
53:18We've got no airfields to put them on.
53:20But, Mr. President, it is the question.
53:22We are now...
53:24When this thing started, their maximum number of soldiers, I keep saying the same thing, was 367.
53:30Now it's 900.
53:32Good.
53:33When this thing started, the B-52 soldiers were 36 a day.
53:37They are now at 78.
53:40When this thing started, there were four destroyers out there.
53:44By the end of this week, there'll be 38.
53:4638?
53:46How many cruisers?
53:49Four.
53:50And there were what?
53:52How many were there before?
53:54None.
53:56There was a cruiser in the Pacific?
54:01Let me give you some of the farm damage.
54:03It's really unbelievable.
54:07Let me just run through it quickly because I've already given you the one large secondary explosion that was seen 110 miles away.
54:20Eight large P.O.L.
54:22tanks destroyed, and I've seen the picture.
54:23You said it was all done by a little destroyer, Captain.
54:25Yeah, from you.
54:26Eight large P.O.L.
54:27tanks destroyed, six large P.O.L.
54:29tanks burning.
54:30They showed me pictures taken in High Farm yesterday where there was so much smoke you couldn't see anything.
54:36Six P.O.L.
54:37tanks, five cylinder-shaped tanks burning, eight buildings destroyed, three rail cuts, each 15 feet long.
54:46Five railroad P.O.L.
54:47cars derailed.
54:49Four railroad P.O.L.
54:50tank cars destroyed.
54:52Ten railroad P.O.L.
54:53tank cars burning.
54:54This is in Haiphong.
54:57In the Haiphong open storage area, two large sustained fires.
55:03In the Hanoi P.O.L., target 75% destroyed.
55:06Base of column, smoke column 1.4 miles wide.
55:10Railroad tracks north of target completely cut.
55:14flames up to 10,000 feet.
55:19Haiphong warehouse, six large secondary explosions, six large buildings completely destroyed, five large buildings heavily damaged, one barge sunk.
55:30Haiphong warehouse number four, 14 buildings completely destroyed, 15 severely damaged, five burning, extensive cratering.
55:39Haiphong naval base, four buildings damaged, one building burning,
55:44One, something rather destroyed.
55:47Haiphong shit yard.
55:52Ten very large secondary explosions.
55:55Haiphong warehouse north-east.
55:57Eight large buildings completely destroyed.
55:59Six damaged.
56:01This goes on and on and on.
56:05Disagreement.
56:06Disagreement.
56:09We don't know whether we got the thing in the front part yet.
56:12That they have to photograph today with an SR-71.
56:15I'll go to my meeting, Mr. President.
56:18Incidentally, Shakespeare has withdrawn his resignation after I talked to him.
56:24Good.
56:24Do you really feel it's going well in Antioch or better?
56:30Yes.
56:30What's why?
56:34Nineteen of twenty-one tanks to the target.
56:36I know.
56:37Press it, sir.
56:38There must be some.
56:39They have cleared the whole town now.
56:41There are no more Vietnamese in the town.
56:46And now they're trying to slip around on both sides.
56:48They're going to launch another big attack.
56:51But each succeeding attack is going to be a little weaker than the preceding one.
56:56What about the Kuwait?
56:58The Kuwait area, there is no major attack.
57:00In the Kuwait area, they're coping.
57:02Kuwait is like B3.
57:03They try to get an attack started, but they never get organized.
57:07In the Kwantri area, the South Vietnamese are moving out, but frankly, they're no good on the offensive.
57:15All those tanks we sent were useless.
57:18Oh, no, that's not true.
57:20They had tanks.
57:21They did knock out a lot of tanks up there.
57:24With our tanks, yeah.
59:37The strong conviction here is that Irvin's going to say no.
59:42If he says no, McGregor will then immediately call him.
1:00:06And so I just want to confirm my understanding of the meeting you had with Senator Bannon as to whether I should pursue this any further or not.
1:00:14It's my understanding that you declined this suggestion, and I want to confirm that that's correct and unequivocal, and the Senator will say yes.
1:00:23Then we put the whole claim against public bullying into motion.
1:00:29That's the easy part.
1:00:31exercise or that's urban actually maybe that's the likely result and that's the uh if it's if that's what happens we can move on now yeah but the problem the likelihood or another possibility which carpools is not likely it seems to me it would be a bourbon smart enough because urban is bonding on this so he may not be smart enough he may say you know that's an interesting idea i'll think it over and we'll talk about it on thursday and then what are we going
1:01:01We didn't have to worry about that until 10 o'clock.
1:01:04They sent people to find out what happened.
1:01:07Then why don't we just wait a minute?
1:01:09I think we just got there.
1:01:10We were going through all these things.
1:01:12And we finally decided at the same time that we could bring about 37 options.
1:01:15And they all are in an hour.
1:01:17So we better just sit and wait an hour.
1:01:20The problem is we're all here to move fast.
1:01:24The difficulty is you don't believe, I go over again, that you can flush it.
1:01:30without this urban thing.
1:01:34Do you see what I mean?
1:01:36Yeah, it's awful hard to.
1:01:37Well, I wonder.
1:01:38Could you have long stayed in the rest?
1:01:41I don't know.
1:01:42I guess not.
1:01:45Buddy, I'm sorry people would buy that.
1:01:49Mitchell won't, because Mitchell strongly believes that there is a possibility that the Lundys can get confirmed.
1:01:58McGregor's view is that there's been a clear political decision made that has something to do with Kleindienst.
1:02:04In fact, it's probably, in some people's minds, very unfortunate that it is Kleindienst, because they like him.
1:02:09But liking Kleindienst doesn't stand in the way of trying to win an election.
1:02:16And there's an interesting article in the Post this morning that comes up with the obvious conclusion, which is that Democrats are going to play this, and then
1:02:27They're going to turn to their campaign team, which is, we will appoint an attorney general who can be confirmed by the United States Senate.
1:02:35And by that time, we'll have Mr. Weinberger out there, right?
1:02:39Well, yeah, if that's a jewel.
1:02:45You're sure to sell a risk?
1:02:47What?
1:02:48What was the risk on anybody?
1:02:50They won't take anybody out.
1:02:52Well, they might not.
1:02:54You can find problems with anyone.
1:02:57You can make him up.
1:02:59It'll hardly be him.
1:03:00I think he'd be very unusual and fragile.
1:03:05What do you think?
1:03:07I would think so.
1:03:09And I don't think their idea of going to the Lewis Powell type is...
1:03:13Okay, no.
1:03:15You can't take the chance of putting a string on him.
1:03:18Unless you've got somebody that you know is doable.
1:03:22Nobody's suggesting that.
1:03:29And I don't think Bill Smith answers it.
1:03:33Oh, because I don't think he's the towering figure.
1:03:37The difficulty with Bill Smith is they talk about his clients.
1:03:45which gives us an impression that everybody that invests in industry is oil.
1:03:48Well, you can be damn sure they have an IT&T subsidiary.
1:03:51Oh, Senator.
1:03:51It's inevitable that they do.
1:03:53No, no, no, no, no, no.
1:03:55You've got to be a poor man.
1:03:57I'm talking.
1:04:01Smith would be a good attorney general, but... Also, he's a good man.
1:04:05Smith is no tolerant figure.
1:04:07I mean, she is a Phi Beta Kappa or whatever.
1:04:09A nice fall.
1:04:10A nice fall.
1:04:11According to her, it was the name of Duke.
1:04:15Yeah.
1:04:16Now that type, the deed-to-do type, you might, you might ask her, but how solid is he?
1:04:24That's how you know.
1:04:25Solid is the main thing.
1:04:30Yeah, but people would tell you, Charlie, I'm a solid fellow too.
1:04:33Would you like Charlie to turn you down?
1:04:37He's your close personal friend, great campaign supporter.
1:04:48Well, anyway, I'm not worried about the post editorial about that.
1:04:53That's not, I mean, their story.
1:04:54That's right, sir.
1:04:55It is, sir, where they have picked up the whole scenario and figured it out.
1:05:03Well, we'll wait for that one until the end.
1:05:06I just want to, we've got another option.
1:05:10Give me a, do this for me.
1:05:13I want you to just, over these next two weeks until we get past this Vietnam thing, to cover the news things, you know, as we did during Cambodia-Laos thing.
1:05:23Is there anything in the news that I should know about today?
1:05:26I've read the paper.
1:05:26I mean, I don't have the time.
1:05:29I wish I would do that every day, but I'm not going to be able to do summaries.
1:05:32due to the fact that it's just a rehash of it.
1:05:36Vietnam is the big story beyond that.
1:05:38I don't need to tell anybody about Vietnam.
1:05:40I don't know about it.
1:05:44But is there anything else coming, like any other stories that I need to know about at the present time?
1:05:52If you see coming on, anything on the San Diego Convention, for example, or anything on any of our other people?
1:06:00It's all in somebody else's hands, sir.
1:06:03I'm just trying to think.
1:06:05There's nothing that comes to my mind, and I'll take a quick look, just to be sure.
1:06:09Every morning, you would?
1:06:11Not left anything out of that.
1:06:12You take a quick look at the new summary and say, look, there's about four items in the summary.
1:06:16It's just probably a little odd, but it might raise.
1:06:19Yeah.
1:06:21This is much better if I keep clear of it.
1:06:23But I would count on you in a hurry when...
1:06:27And Colson, between, you know, we go with the hammering.
1:06:31Despite the IGG, the Colson's crowd is able to, they are going to undertake the defense of the president line this week.
1:06:42They're willing to do that.
1:06:43Oh, yeah.
1:06:44Do they have enough horses to do that?
1:06:46Yeah, well, sure.
1:06:47And it's...
1:06:49different people, I guess, if you want.
1:06:51ITT isn't that much of a thing for them now.
1:06:53I was going to ask the point that was made.
1:06:56And you got it.
1:06:56You got it already.
1:06:57It was still appointed on Bussing, his project, as a young man.
1:07:01And he's aiming on, you know, some, getting his other things in motion, too.
1:07:07John's taking over the...
1:07:08It is really the best thing we've done for some time.
1:07:11It was a good move.
1:07:14Captain, one captain.
1:07:17Not really one captain.
1:07:17Not really one captain.
1:07:19i don't think you do and then to be perfectly comfortable with the vietnam thing i don't think you want to call me if you call the company they're going to they're going to make a thing about the president's son on the captain in the emergency session that's what makes you want that but it doesn't seem to be a business problem
1:07:42that it also turns out to be the best cover for Henry.
1:07:45I definitely will go to Camp David Thursday night.
1:07:48I can stay through Sunday for sure.
1:07:51I may stay through Monday, and therefore Monday must be cleared.
1:07:55What do we have Monday?
1:07:56I have nothing.
1:07:56The reason being, that is, if there is a meeting in Paris, I have to be away at that period of time.
1:08:06Now, for the purposes of the press, Kissinger is there with me.
1:08:11He's here with me.
1:08:14We'll just, uh, he goes up, in other words, it could be, uh, we'll have Kissinger enter and say he's meeting with, uh, this one, and Tyler, and three, and three, you understand?
1:08:30And, uh, Ron doesn't need that.
1:08:31Let me, let me say, Ron isn't there, he's just guessing, see?
1:08:37That's the way it's gonna be, though.
1:08:39We're going to have a perfect color that way.
1:08:41We see that you cannot do that if he was seen.
1:08:43But you can do it if you can't leave it, because the camera's closed.
1:08:47There ain't nobody.
1:08:48Nobody comes in or out.
1:08:49So when does Hay get back?
1:08:53Once we have him come up.
1:08:56The whole point is, I've got to say that Kissinger is there, because he's going to be the hell out of town.
1:09:01Yeah.
1:09:02But you could also, it would, when Haig comes back, he's got to report to Kissinger, and you, and I think Haig's got to, you shoot Haig up on the face of honor, report him to you, and that's it.
1:09:11Excellent idea.
1:09:13Excellent.
1:09:13Haig can't come back and not see Henry.
1:09:15No.
1:09:16Well, then Haig, Haig will, Haig will come, he's got to report him to the president, and so forth.
1:09:21I guess I'm sure about this.
1:09:22Excellent idea.
1:09:23There she is.
1:09:24What is that?
1:09:25Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.
1:09:28There she is.
1:09:28Here, here.
1:09:29That's right.
1:09:29He will have already reported to you.
1:09:30Except that, forget that.
1:09:32Wednesday night.
1:09:33But wait a minute.
1:09:34It's a nice part of the picture.
1:09:36Is he still up to you Wednesday night?
1:09:38Yes, sir.
1:09:39That's all right.
1:09:40There's no problem.
1:09:42If he goes to a party, nobody's going to notice her for one day at any event.
1:09:52Nobody knows who goes through if you can't make it.
1:09:59You get sent out of the car and so forth and so on.
1:10:06You'll have to.
1:10:07I'll have to.
1:10:07Can't go home.
1:10:08So you go out right after the reception?
1:10:10I go out right after the reception.
1:10:13Good.
1:10:17There's still, on a tentative basis, at least thinking of a press conference next week.
1:10:21There's always a talk next week.
1:10:25We're always thinking of that.
1:10:27We haven't heard it very well, but that's, that I think will give good time.
1:10:33Because we will have a true withdrawal announcement of some sort next week, in any event, if we don't do that with this announcement.
1:10:55Would you tell Ron or whoever goes to the Capitol today that he should be staying fairly close to keep the idiot reporters' mics out of my face, you know?
1:11:13Yeah.
1:11:13I don't want to, I mean, I'm not concerned about it, except I just don't want to be blocked in a way that I have to respond.
1:11:21Yeah.
1:11:23Getting up or something.
1:11:29Maybe they can find some other anchors or something.
1:11:36I guess there isn't any way.
1:11:37They can block some of the bridges off a few little, you see what I'm talking about?
1:11:41They get down here and put some blocks a little away so that they are right on the... Well, I'll be playing each thing.
1:12:04Fire ahead.
1:12:14He does about 70%, but he still has that 30% that he thinks may go the other way.
1:12:24Obviously if it would, we'd be better off.
1:12:38A couple minor things.
1:12:43I talked to Connie Stewart this morning about the panda picture.
1:12:53And Mrs. Nixon apparently insists on doing it tomorrow afternoon.
1:12:57I told Connie that I'm totally against that and will continue to fight not to have
1:13:02that take place tomorrow.
1:13:03We have a table tennis team here tomorrow, and so you get two tennis stories in one day and blow them both.
1:13:08Well, maybe she doesn't know that.
1:13:12Well, I've made the point.
1:13:13I'll continue to make the point, but I've only talked to her.
1:13:15To Mrs. Nixon?
1:13:16Yeah.
1:13:17No, I've talked to Connie.
1:13:18But they call her Mrs. Connie.
1:13:19Connie.
1:13:20I'll call her Mrs. Nixon.
1:13:21Just call her and tell her that I asked you to call me because the table tennis team is here in this school.
1:13:28You'll have the two of us are meeting each other.
1:13:30Why are you monitoring the day?
1:13:32No, no, I went to Wednesday or Thursday, but Mrs. Nixon's out of town Wednesday, and I'm okay for Thursday.
1:13:37I'm not concerned about this post story today about secrecy and so forth.
1:13:42That's good.
1:13:44Oh, it's fine.
1:13:45Why didn't you read the bucket paper?
1:13:47Well, believe me, I really get excited when everybody comes in.
1:13:51I don't care what they write.
1:13:54That story works to our advantage for this reason, and you can play it this way.
1:13:57The musk oxen in China are sick.
1:14:01They are, it's true.
1:14:02Are their hairs falling off?
1:14:04Why?
1:14:05Because they aren't being, we can't say they aren't being properly taken care of, but you can make the point the other way, that the zoo and people here are taking every precaution to make sure the pandas get the proper treatment and they will not be exposed to the public.
1:14:21Or even we don't even care about the fact that the AP runs a story saying that they're keeping them secret and we're not allowing pictures.
1:14:28The answer is that's right.
1:14:29It's more important that the campus health be preserved.
1:14:32Whenever the zoo gives the approval, they will.
1:14:39You better talk to that cat, Reed, at the zoo, and be sure you got him.
1:14:43Just tell him, you know, that we don't want these.
1:14:47We want them to wait until they're perfectly acclimated before us pictures are taken.
1:14:51Use that in turn.
1:14:53That's my review of the fact that most hospitals are sick.
1:15:02But what's her problem?
1:15:03She'll be away Wednesday.
1:15:05Why can't she do it today?
1:15:09They might be.
1:15:10They might be.
1:15:12I'd say it's a bad day.
1:15:14Let me work it out.
1:15:18Of course, they're a big story tonight, too.
1:15:22They're in Washington today.
1:15:32And now, I don't know if it makes any difference.
1:15:34They play out of Bethesda High School today, and they play at Kogar.
1:15:37Isn't that going to be a lot of a picture?
1:15:38Why don't we just do the panda thing tomorrow, then?
1:15:41No, no, no.
1:15:42Here's my view of the table tennis.
1:15:45Look, we've been looking for ways to reopen the China Visit thing, and these are the two best shots we've got.
1:15:51It's the ping pong and the pandas.
1:15:53We're on the right course here.
1:15:54I'll just stop and listen.
1:15:57One of the two.
1:15:59Call her directly, and you can get her.
1:16:01You just call her and say that you're in it, and then you say that
1:16:08And it's your idea that it would be very bold, and because the table tennis team will be the story tomorrow, and they can't.
1:16:17And it will be a major story.
1:16:19And we just have to celebrate it.
1:16:21Now, when do you want to run a man's story?
1:16:24Thursday.
1:16:25She can't do it Wednesday.
1:16:26If she could do it Wednesday, that would be fine.
1:16:28But I understand she's got a ton of Wednesdays.
1:16:31What are you going to do with it?
1:16:39That'd be some.
1:16:40The problem doesn't show.
1:16:41The problem doesn't show.
1:16:45You know what the problem is.
1:16:51That's .
1:16:51OK. We've got a lot on ourselves.
1:16:55Now, on the Polish ambassador report coming in at 10.30, the question comes up, do we want to have a picture with the Polish ambassador in light of everything else?
1:17:05Have you talked to him?
1:17:10I haven't been able to get to Henry this morning.
1:17:13Let me do this, but don't tell him a thing.
1:17:16I'll get Henry in just before I see the Polish ambassador talking to me about it.
1:17:22All right.
1:17:22I'll just do all the English to him quickly.
1:17:25Okay, fine.
1:17:27One argument for it is it makes a positive story on the Russian trip going ahead as planned.
1:17:35It does.
1:17:35That, together with the advanced people.
1:17:37But I want to get this deal as to whether or not we want that buzz.
1:17:41For any reason, we don't want it.
1:17:44I'll wait for your comments.
1:17:45I will.
1:17:45I'll raise it, Henry.
1:17:48And if you get a buzz, that means we have it.
1:17:50We don't.
1:17:51We don't.
1:17:51There's what there is.
1:17:53Which, of course, you wouldn't think there's anybody who would think about it.
1:17:57I got to be sure about it.
1:17:58It's a Polish thing.
1:18:00Nailed it.
1:18:01Yeah, I don't want to have the son of a bitch come in and have a picture and say, well, my government now says I'm not going to go.
1:18:08Yeah, you probably understand that to knock off any trips, I want to knock them off.
1:18:12I don't want somebody else knocking them off.
1:18:16So everybody that wants to grab some story, who wouldn't have thought of a positive story?
1:18:22I thought of that a month ago as whoever happens to be the Polish ambassador.
1:18:25That isn't the fight.
1:18:26The fight is, see what I mean?
1:18:28The fight is whether this is something we can handle.
1:18:32Well, we'll wait until you get the word.
1:18:33We'll get to it.
1:18:35We'll get to it.
1:18:35There's an inordinate risk of it to the ground.
1:18:37Contrary to what you mean, by the way.
1:18:40But your whole line, Iran on the sun, everything else should be positive.
1:18:47Right.
1:18:47No Russian.
1:18:50protests in our area.
1:18:52We expect that.
1:18:52And we expect the Chinese protests, we expect that to be part of it.
1:18:57On the other hand, we are seeking good relations with our ally, with the Soviet and Chinese, recognizing that there will be some areas of the world where we will have very fundamental and profound disagreements.
1:19:11This is one of those areas.
1:19:12We can have them in the past, we can have them in the future.
1:19:16You're sleeping right there.
1:19:17Say nothing anymore.
1:19:19Now, I think we've got Rockets pretty well positioned today.
1:19:22We've got a tough line.
1:19:23You're supposed to press it and say anything.
1:19:26It's kind of a consolary.
1:19:28But your old line should be, the most important thing is any man.
1:19:31Any man.
1:19:32Don't call him a thing.
1:19:36You know what I mean?
1:19:37That's it.
1:19:38In other words, if they say, well, how about the limits of bombing and the rest?
1:19:41Are there going to be another strike like this?
1:19:44What about this and this and that?
1:19:46That's a military situation.
1:19:47I'm not going to comment.
1:19:50I just, I don't want anything, anything.
1:19:52The Lakers said, out of here, I don't want anything controversial, but I said, out of here.
1:19:57I mean, there was some story in the New York Times and shit.
1:20:04I don't know why, but most of the things that were stirred up by any of the White House staff, at least some of them, were terribly dumb.
1:20:10I'm talking about this son of Ed Sheeran Smith, who's a lousy little bastard.
1:20:13Anyway, I've known him for years.
1:20:15When he put out a story about Kuwaiti walls, that's a terrible thing.
1:20:24You see what you do with that?
1:20:25The great mistake that was made with the French, and the Germans, of course, fell for the mistake, and so it was.
1:20:32What if it was to cost the French two million and the Germans a million and a half men?
1:20:36It was redundant.
1:20:39I think the Senate would fight it to the goddamn rock.
1:20:43Now, the minute that you have any jackass in White House staff with the best intentions going out and talking to one of his friends in the New York Times, first he should have talked to anybody.
1:20:53but I've given orders that that's the case.
1:20:54The only man on the Earth I know should be talked to.
1:21:03But I know this is probably some well-intentioned guy burbling around in his cuffs.
1:21:09But my point is this, don't read anything of it.
1:21:11Don't, don't, don't read any.
1:21:13Just write it through very calmly, very strongly.
1:21:17How the land fighting is going better, what about the protests and so forth.
1:21:22No comment.
1:21:22What about what must be agreed and so forth.
1:21:24I have no comment.
1:21:27I'd sure like to.
1:21:28Can I?
1:21:30We'll get that from elsewhere.
1:21:33Elsewhere?
1:21:34The point of this is that they should be passing resolutions in the United States Senate calling on the Northeastern Leagues to stop them.
1:21:48They should be standing up indignantly.
1:21:51addressing the North Vietnamese invasion, not all of a sudden the stock emotional response against something that is dealing with an invasion.
1:22:02They failed, apparently, to even comprehend what is going on.
1:22:05You might say this, the critics are shooting at the wrong target.
1:22:24they should they should direct the fire against the communist forces from North Vietnam that are invading South Vietnam rather than against the president who is simply trying to stop this invasion and violation and so on and instead of
1:22:52You see my point?
1:22:53Yes, sir.
1:22:53I think you would say that much.
1:22:55And they, uh, their direction gets a long target if they want peace.
1:23:00Uh, to keep using that invasion order, do it.
1:23:03It's taken hold.
1:23:03Use it.
1:23:04Do it.
1:23:05And then say that the, uh, I think you also might, uh, sort of give another little act that the, uh, that, uh,
1:23:24But I'd like to get off of Ed and Ron's point that they're turning.
1:23:37It's very puzzling to you why some of the critics always end up taking the side of the enemy, who are amazed of Vietnam.
1:23:52rather than the side of our allies, the South Vietnamese, who are defending our country.
1:23:58I see you're just a shade away from taking the side of the enemy, who are invading South Vietnam, rather than the side of our allies, who are trying to defend their country against the communist division.
1:24:19I think you should say that.
1:24:22And let them spill it.
1:24:26Well, I think we have a case to make.
1:24:30Now, Rock is supposed to say these things today.
1:24:35We should see whether he says them today.
1:24:38Because the standard of the White House backs him up.
1:24:40Well, we will.
1:24:41We'll do another three.
1:24:43The other point we can come up with.
1:24:45Let me say that on that, these two points could well be made.
1:24:48You say it.
1:24:50If you have a chance to say that, say it.
1:24:53But if not, you say it.
1:24:55let's put it right we have the negotiating point to make we have that we can say here's the president who has withdrawn a half a million men and has made a negotiating offer i have all the material we've said it in the briefings but i just
1:25:14I just have a sense that we don't go out today and cover any broad new ground, but I think it's worthwhile at 3 o'clock if they come up with some questions.
1:25:23You can just look them in the eye and say, look, this here is the situation.
1:25:28And you can keep the invasion thing going and show that we're not backing down or leaving any of the courses.
1:25:34Now, they say, if there are any limitations on them, I thought I called with Rogers on this.
1:25:40Are there any limitations on what we're going to do with regard to them?
1:25:44except for the military weapons, the oppressor will do what is necessary.
1:25:48Do what is necessary, and the following will stop when they stop invading.
1:25:51They stop their invading, withdraw their forces across the DMZ.
1:25:54Now, does that mean all the people?
1:25:57Just say withdraw their forces across the DMZ, and then across their district, and they stop invading.
1:26:06Another way you can put it, which I worked out, I turned it over to Roger, he said it straight, or he said it,
1:26:14We will stop our bombing of military targets in North Vietnam before Vietnam stops killing Americans and South Vietnamese in South Vietnam.
1:26:29We're going to kill the Americans and South Vietnamese.
1:26:37I'm sure Congress and the South, he's sure to praise the South Vietnamese for fighting courageously to defend their homeland.
1:26:45We haven't, we've had to be very proud of our Air Force people who have provided the whole of this country, preserved our homeland against a communist invasion, and our, I keep using the word communist invasion, you used the term that you did one day last week where you said, well, I want these guys to write this.
1:27:01Say it again.
1:27:03look him in the eye see we have a tendency when we when there's a big thing like this then we begin to back away and withdraw and get defensive well damn it we shouldn't do that the actions we're taking and the problem is that we didn't i think that the colson and his outfit didn't drop the ball they dropped the ball actually because they didn't know what they were supposed to do apparently but they did exactly what henry told them to well
1:27:30Henry was very adamant that he didn't want to escalate the debate.
1:27:34Now he's saying, since the debate is escalated, we can do it.
1:27:36Well, the debate was escalated last week.
1:27:39I'm thinking about it.
1:27:42See, Henry's line this morning was, well, I didn't want to get the attack started any sooner than we had to by the Democrats.
1:27:48Well, what the hell?
1:27:49Obviously, they're going to attack the day we win.
1:27:54dropped the first bomb.
1:27:55We're all right.
1:27:56I think we're in good shape.
1:27:57There's uncertainty a little bit, but the invasion thing is there.
1:28:03I want you to hit the idea.
1:28:05I would suggest that some of the critics should start speaking on board.
1:28:15the South Vietnamese were defending their country against the Communist invasion of Northern Ireland.
1:28:21And those brave American pilots, airmen and seamen who were helping them, rather than taking the side, always finding a way to take the side of the Communist invaders in Northern Ireland.
1:28:39Put it right on there.
1:28:40Put it down there.
1:28:42Well, the other point is, too, many of the critics seem to suggest all they have to do is close their eyes and the problem will go away.
1:28:48The North Vietnamese will stop invading.
1:28:52That's the line we're taking.
1:28:53They're saying, well, the efforts on the part of the United States to deal with an invasion, the way to stop the problem there is just close your eyes and forget about it.
1:29:09And we take it to the United Nations Security Council and call for a ceasefire.
1:29:17Why didn't they do it?
1:29:18You know why?
1:29:19You know who sits in Security Council?
1:29:21The Russians.
1:29:22And now the Chinese.
1:29:24I'm not going into too many details.
1:29:25One's enough.
1:29:27It's the silliest goddamn thing I've ever heard of.
1:29:31And I listen to the aspects of it.
1:29:33That's really too silly to comment on.
1:29:37called both Russians and Chinese, or the Security Council.
1:29:39That's the reason why the Humphrey's administration was not taken to the Security Council because of the media that did it.
1:29:50Okay, the Muskie's good resolution is stop all military operations immediately.
1:29:56That's going to solve the thing.
1:29:58Stop all of ours?
1:29:59Yeah, that's his resolution.
1:30:01Stop all military operations.
1:30:02Stop all U.S. military operations.
1:30:05That's what I was in there.
1:30:09I'd like to.
1:30:10What has been done about this?
1:30:13Well, that's the whole hammer and grunt that's needed.
1:30:16And I don't think you should get any of the individuals by their proposals.
1:30:20I don't think you should.
1:30:23Well, we don't.
1:30:24I wouldn't.
1:30:25I don't want to.
1:30:25It should mean that if you want it, the critics should read it.
1:30:29I'll just keep it to the critics.
1:30:30Keep it to the critics and so forth.
1:30:32Do you got some quid?
1:30:36The only other thing we'll get here, and we always get it when there's an action like this, when did the President decide on this?
1:30:48I'm not going to go straight to him.
1:30:51I'm not going to tell him a goddamn thing.
1:30:53And don't you, I've given you this order before, I've given it under no circumstances from now through into the election, and anybody in this White House is going to have to see John Osborne or Hugh Siding alone.
1:31:05No call is ever to be returned to either.
1:31:08Is that clear?
1:31:08Yes, sir.
1:31:09Absolutely.
1:31:09Fine.
1:31:10And as far as wanting the president to decide, I have no comment.
1:31:13All right.
1:31:15Yes, sir.
1:31:16I've made my decision.
1:31:17I'm not going to do anything.
1:31:19I don't know what I had for breakfast, whether I slept well or not, whether I had a column or not.
1:31:23None of their goddamn business.
1:31:25Don't talk about that.
1:31:27We're going to speak totally on it.
1:31:28I'm not going to discuss that.
1:31:30I have nothing to talk, nothing to comment on.
1:31:34Okay.
1:31:34Fine.
1:31:35Is he going to rest his son?
1:31:36I have nothing to comment.
1:31:39But then we'll make it work.
1:31:42Yes, we're taking a very hard line.
1:31:43We're going to continue to take a hard line.
1:31:47It's too bad that I didn't realize that they were everything Henry's.
1:31:51Henry tells me, because I asked him about that, that that isn't what he said.
1:31:54He said that he said it.
1:32:00at least launch some defenses of what we were doing there.
1:32:03We've done that.
1:32:06We've answered every attack as it's come.
1:32:09But it doesn't work unless you attack the opposition.
1:32:12The only thing we haven't done is to, on our own, well, maybe it isn't all that bad that we did it.
1:32:18I don't know what you think.
1:32:21I don't think it is that bad.
1:32:23I'm not concerned about it.
1:32:25There comes a time to attack.
1:32:27Now maybe the time is to attack.
1:32:29We've had the invasion line firmly established.
1:32:33We have a posture of calmness.
1:32:35We have the double-track thing going in some sophisticated way.
1:32:39But I can say that on both, on both, on both, I'm thinking about negotiations.
1:32:45Now, I thought it was great to talk about that with Nicole and me.
1:32:56For three, almost three years before the president's speech,
1:32:59you fully ragged me and him about whether or not we were negotiating in every area.
1:33:09On the very 22nd, the full record of our negotiating efforts, primarily in public, was put out.
1:33:19And a lot of you who had written
1:33:24that the administration was not going far enough in terms of seeking to negotiate a settlement had pretty red faces.
1:33:32My gentlemen, I'm not going to discuss what is taking place in private channels now, but I will only say the record since January of this administration in seeking to negotiate a settlement publicly and privately, and privately.
1:33:51When it is reviewed,
1:33:54It's not even, also leaves some very good visions of what we know in the press.
1:33:59Just say it that way, understand?
1:34:00I told Rock, I should have said that, but I'm sure he wouldn't.
1:34:04But you can say that, and just have my word about it.
1:34:06Well, Rock, are there, are there some privacy regulations?
1:34:11Are you suggesting, or can we speculate?
1:34:13I have nothing to say about that, but just leave it hanging out there.
1:34:18Just say they're going to use the term red faces.
1:34:20There were red faces, those of you who said we were here doing everything we can.
1:34:24Well, what about this breaking up?
1:34:27Don't assume, gentlemen, don't assume that what you said, either don't assume that the tip of the iceberg is all in the iceberg, as far as negotiating the track is concerned.
1:34:41I don't want you to come up with that, but the sailor's the man.
1:34:45So be it.
1:34:47I teased one guy a little bit the other day.
1:34:49You teased him again.
1:34:50You do it very often.
1:34:51Use the red face sign.
1:34:53It's true.
1:34:53They did have red faces, didn't they?
1:34:55Sure.
1:35:00No, no.
1:35:03Call Ms. Nixon right away.
1:35:05Just tell her that the press, tell her the press has raised the question.
1:35:10They really haven't.
1:35:11They can't run more than one China story a day and give that a good play.
1:35:14We want, the President wants the Panda story to get the big play so that we can respect what they've been wanting when we've added the Panda story on Thursday.
1:35:21Fair enough.
1:35:29I know those are concerns, frankly, you and he are about to have.
1:35:50I mean, I personally basically don't like to see them ever put their heads in the water.
1:35:55I like to attack.
1:35:57But on the other hand, there's something that we said in this instance to allow them for the four days to, and that's when they really started to like it, you know, they started loving it.
1:36:09It allowed them to get right out there at the end of the mountain and land and just tear the hell out of them.
1:36:14But our people now have to tear the hell out of them.
1:36:17That's the point.
1:36:18Do you see my point?
1:36:19Sure.
1:36:23Is it time to unleash Agnew?
1:36:24I suppose not.
1:36:26Would you do that?
1:36:28It is the time.
1:36:28It's better.
1:36:30Agnew could go out and kick the shit out of them.
1:36:34Kick them right in the balls.
1:36:37Or write a vicious speech for Agnew and deliver it someplace.
1:36:42Or maybe that's a better plan than anybody else.
1:36:45I know for a fact that you can get Rockefeller and Reagan to join in this joint statement or anything that you like.
1:36:50We might put that down as a possibility.
1:36:54That'd be a nice little combination.
1:37:02Maybe they got better plans, Bob.
1:37:07I don't think they were planning on it.
1:37:10And I think, you know, that would be good.
1:37:17Or he's doing a supermarket institute today, which isn't the place to go, but he's got a Tulsa speech tomorrow, and that would be.
1:37:24Mm-hmm.
1:37:28Kevin Buchanan, the writer, the teasers, the fetus, taking the side of the enemy, and all that sort of life.
1:37:41God, I'm really praying the writer should be strong today.
1:37:45His relations are...
1:37:48I don't think he will, but you know, Henry will be there, and then take it right down to the, that's my ground.
1:38:09Yep, he will.
1:38:36The best gun in the war has been that Lieutenant Colonel Liffey.
1:38:40It's a new cross-bansion.
1:38:41It is the greatest pleasure I'm going to have.
1:38:45Just to get those cross-bansions whining, bellowing, and everything.
1:39:08You know, there used to be a time when fellows like Dick Wilson would be in about, Bill White would be about even or slightly better than even in terms of PR effect.
1:39:23Now there are counting voices in the meetings.
1:39:28They're columnist, of course.
1:39:31Of course, excuse me.
1:39:34I rather think that some of the people are a little bit ginger about this thing.
1:39:38On the TV, people have had analog lost.
1:39:41They should be lost.
1:39:43And they've had, because of that.
1:39:45Who in the hell do you think is the white outside talking to Eric Smith?
1:39:49Who in the hell?
1:39:50That was that one.
1:39:53I'm not blaming anybody.
1:39:54I just sort of wanted to find out who was sitting on the staff, you know, who went out and talked to that son of a bitch Harrison.
1:40:01If they'd given it to Joe Alsop, I wouldn't mind it.
1:40:03I doubt if there was anybody in the staff meeting because that isn't the line that any, that's the opposite of the line that's been consistently taken.
1:40:14That's the strange thing.
1:40:15Whoever said it is somebody who has no concept of what the plan is.
1:40:22Because losing an office, I mean, losing a lawyer is, you know, don't, don't, don't, don't.
1:40:26The lawyers are going to work hard and so forth.
1:40:29They had a nice time with Chuck.
1:40:32I don't think anybody went.
1:40:38Poor little chap, they had a hell of a problem.
1:40:40They couldn't get an audience for it at a great price.
1:40:43They'd write it away when people would come.
1:40:46They invited the diplomatic corps, as they always do, and set up a special plane for them, and only something like eight or ten accepted, so they canceled the plane.
1:40:55And not many.
1:40:57It's over.
1:40:58People just aren't interested anymore.
1:41:02They had a nice crowd down there, but it wasn't like what they'd been before.
1:41:07It wasn't like what they'd been before.
1:41:16See, they're all living in their own world.
1:41:23But people will watch it when they go to the movies, right?
1:41:29Well, there's apparently going to be some spectacular television.
1:41:33They've got new cameras, and they're running a lot more hours of TV and all that.
1:41:36So that'll be...
1:41:44We had thought it was a possibility, but it seems to me it's incongruous now.
1:42:07Did you find, on the way to the comrade lunch today, one of some vibly?
1:42:12No.
1:42:13your 19th and Constitution site for the bicentennial gardens you're going to be, they're going to present the plan on Wednesday for a no.
1:42:21But I don't think you know.
1:42:25Comer lunch is going to be just done.
1:42:27Yeah.
1:42:29I think it was a nice idea, that.
1:42:31Well, it might have been, you know, if nothing else were happening, it would be a, I think it looks a little bit as if we're trying to play it too cool.
1:42:44And apparently you talked to Frank Boa and said you wanted to have him come in to talk to you about his future plans.
1:42:49No.
1:42:50He's coming in January.
1:42:52Can you talk to him?
1:42:53I'll see him in the dinner.
1:42:54I'll see him in the dinner.
1:42:55I think he's probably been ranking after Colmer.
1:43:03No.
1:43:03Have him rank.
1:43:04Have him rank.
1:43:05In any event, have him be seated by me.
1:43:09At the dinner.
1:43:10In other words, on one side or the other.
1:43:13That gives me no reason to have to study so much.
1:43:14It doesn't mean I don't have to tell Brian to give the other dinner.
1:43:18I don't want to talk about that.
1:43:21All right.
1:43:22I don't know what the hell he wants to do.
1:43:24I'm 75 years old.
1:43:25I'm going to call my first.
1:43:32Go ahead.
1:43:33Go ahead.
1:43:41Yep.
1:43:41And it's, you know, they're all making the point that your whole strategy was to
1:44:06to keep the war out of view was an issue on that issue.
1:44:10Our problem was exactly the opposite.
1:44:11I didn't want to create anything, but that's their strategy.
1:44:19One of our problems was that the war was disappearing.
1:44:22The positive segment of that's an issue.
1:44:28As I told you, I won't give a goddamn of a public reaction here.
1:44:31Not a damn.
1:44:32I don't want anybody to even talk to me about it.
1:44:34We're going to do the right thing.
1:44:34And everybody around here is going to start thinking that way.
1:44:38You know?
1:44:40But I think everybody around here should be hawkish as hell.
1:44:42You're getting right.
1:44:43But you're not a hawker, I see.
1:44:45I don't know what, but right in your face.
1:44:46But that's what you need.
1:44:48Call me.
1:44:48Oh, I'm doing the right thing.
1:44:50Give it to them.
1:44:51I don't want to go.
1:44:52The Americans for Freedom are even sending you resolutions.
1:44:55Yeah.
1:44:56Bob Manoy.
1:44:58People around here, I mean, like your research types, except for Buchanan and the Saudis, God damn it, they all stand up and say, we're proud of the president, we're willing to risk his political future and everything else in order to do what's right for the United States.
1:45:10Now, somebody ought to put it that way.
1:45:13That's really what's involved here.
1:45:14You know, and a lot of people know that, don't they?
1:45:17It's been recognized, isn't it?
1:45:20Oh, sure.
1:45:20I mean, it's been recognized by our critics.
1:45:22You know, it's been written in the editorial table.
1:45:24you know you may say you don't care what the public reaction is but i think it
1:45:54from the standpoint of a leader.
1:45:56Leader types, like Governor Rockefeller or something.
1:46:01Billy Graham and things like that.
1:46:05Well, of course your types have the feeling that it's good enough to people, but there's a hawkish feeling that this is, well, the reaction of Billy Graham's people have as a chancellor and a Christian.
1:46:20I told you.
1:46:23Yeah.
1:46:28Now there's, he said, because we had withdrawn all that bullshit that horses that just didn't seem right, that now they would invade, you know, I mean, draw the faults on their side.
1:46:40Now the invasion line, of course, State didn't want to put that out in the press gate for printing, but that's the only good thing we've done on the PR side.
1:46:47It was a good thing to do.
1:46:48Invade, invade, invade.
1:46:52Just like our invasion of Cambodia, which they played the other way.
1:46:56It was us invading Cambodia, and that was a terrible thing we were doing.
1:47:00If you can play then invading across the DMZ, violating the understandings.
1:47:06There's three invaders, and all that.
1:47:10Raid of South Vietnam.
1:47:12It's danger in American soldiers.
1:47:14It's danger in the South Vietnamese.
1:47:16Raid of civilians.
1:47:17Interestingly, even the battlefield, I mean, not battlefield, but the horror story stuff that they run on television has been the other way.
1:47:25It's been the horrors caused by the North Vietnamese invasion.
1:47:30You mean like the leader's energy?
1:47:32Yeah, showing little kids all shot up.
1:47:36The usual stuff that they do.
1:47:37They do it by firelock every night.
1:47:40But they are showing it, yeah.
1:47:46They're not showing it as us now.
1:47:47Of course, they'll try to.
1:47:49They'll bust their asses to try and show that you killed a lot of civilians in the bombing and all that sort of stuff.
1:48:00But I'm not sure they'll get away with that.
1:48:08But one thing that they're having a hell of a time with, Bob, is to prove that Americans are engaging on the ground.
1:48:14They're trying their goddamnedest to say, well, there's an advisor here or there.
1:48:18The only thing they've been pushing is the truck driver thing.
1:48:22We had a truck driver who was driving in, you know, and he still lives up somewhere.
1:48:31Isn't that unbelievable?
1:48:32Yeah, but it's such a goddamned thing to do.
1:48:35Yeah.
1:48:36What do you think we should do now?
1:48:42They complain because we are...
1:48:44The Russians complain because we bombed Haiphong, what do you think?
1:48:51Well, they don't complain before when they start attacking South Vietnam.
1:48:57Just one question with another one.
1:49:01Who gives you the right to attack South Vietnam?
1:49:07What would you do now?
1:49:08Well, sir, as I was telling you before, the worms will start attacking inside the sulking nerve and destroy it.
1:49:18Every man will want it and he won't demand it.
1:49:20The bad one is dead.
1:49:46Oh, Christ.
1:49:49You'll see.
1:49:50If you could, you might just say, because I don't know what his mood is.
1:49:55I didn't talk about the situation today, so I can not do it.
1:50:01On the other hand, I think it's a good idea to really operate until I'm refreshing something.
1:50:17I think, really, that that's what he ought to do.
1:50:21I don't believe that he's going to be the best economist, or whatever the hell his attitude is, or his own business is.
1:50:30But he should walk in at this point.
1:50:32I mean, I don't know if I should walk in now and say that he's going to have to check out and see what might be.
1:50:44And I must say that
1:50:47on the terms of the following weekend is .
1:50:59There's something there.
1:51:00It wasn't that bad in the beginning.
1:51:02There's something there, Bob, that we don't understand.
1:51:06And I don't believe the staff has been all that bad on it.
1:51:09I know you haven't.
1:51:10But you never know.
1:51:11It just may be that, you know,
1:51:14We do so many things through Danes here.
1:51:17Erwin probably told one of his boys to do something, and Schultz maybe had one of his boys do something, and Stein had one of his boys do something, and that's not the ship, it's the man.
1:51:27Correct.
1:51:28Sure.
1:51:28I'm sure that there's a way to handle it.
1:51:30It's always with the big man.
1:51:32You've got to do it directly, you see.
1:51:34That's the mistake that the staffers make.
1:51:38They just mark something and check with Connelly.
1:51:42Boy, you can't send the boy to the man.
1:51:45I'm sure there are things that are not at the level that should go to Connelly, and so they figured that they shouldn't bother him with it.
1:51:53And most of them, they shouldn't.
1:51:55That cuts both ways, too.
1:51:56You know, you do, and then you're trying to say, well, why don't you wish you might kind of let this chicken and shit stop?
1:52:00You know, we're just kind of... No, I'll tell you, it's very much... You'll have to do it with the extent that these sticks are not...
1:52:15It's not part of your time.
1:52:20Even earlier, basically, that's where it gets down to.
1:52:24John now has time.
1:52:25He's going to walk there and plant his ass outside of his office until Connolly has time to sing.
1:52:30Of course, it may be that Connolly feels like I'm bothering him all the time.
1:52:36Now, that's another problem.
1:52:38He doesn't seem to indicate that because he doesn't raise his sense when he comes in.
1:52:42But, well, and what I...
1:52:44You know, I push on the meeting, and he can tell you the president on that kind of thing.
1:52:49And sometimes when he's got time scheduled, he'll say, you know, I don't need to see him.
1:52:54I don't need to see him this Sunday.
1:52:56I don't mind if we generally do it anyway.
1:52:58Well, no, it's just to be sure he's here.
1:53:01I think it's going to be a nice spring after all.
1:53:09A couple days of it.
1:53:11Those trees.
1:53:14Yesterday was creepy.
1:53:15It stopped suddenly.
1:53:17We couldn't get together.
1:53:18We couldn't get on the boat.
1:53:20Couldn't do a thing.
1:53:23That's the worst of all weather.
1:53:24It's those, well, at least we scattered the thunderstorms.
1:53:27You know, you stop and think about what would have happened.
1:53:31I don't know what would have happened.
1:53:36I can't believe that this happened.
1:53:39What would have happened?
1:53:42I overruled everybody here.
1:53:51about this Henry and Hagen, but I just, when I ordered a double of the B-52 fleet in Maine, that didn't come to the battle field.
1:54:01We did it right from here.
1:54:03And the Navy, we've argued a little more than that, 10 times as much.
1:54:10If we had not done that, South Vietnam would be lost today.
1:54:19They didn't figure what you're talking about.
1:54:22Well, we solemnly said that the Vietnamization has failed.
1:54:25That's what Muskie said.
1:54:26He doesn't necessarily think it's failed.
1:54:28So Muskie said Vietnamization.
1:54:30So he says we should get out, isn't what he's saying, a resolution to withdraw all Americans.
1:54:33Is that what he's saying?
1:54:34To cease all military operations.
1:54:38For Christ's sakes, we cease, like Goliath, put them right now.
1:54:42We cease and they fire.
1:54:43In other words, he wants to cease fire.
1:54:45We cease and they continue fire.
1:54:47They fire.
1:54:48We can't have that kind of a cease fire.
1:54:50It must be on both sides.
1:54:56He's not totally, not totally irresponsible.
1:55:00Okay.
1:55:01Okay.
1:55:04My Soviet experience reading that Soviet note says it's the mildest thing they could have done.
1:55:21It gives them a cover.
1:55:25Can I ask a question about this fall?
1:55:29I don't want this, that we're supposed to announce today that we're going to move on.
1:55:33I don't want them to, I don't want to announce and then have these little assholes pull the plug on us and cancel it.
1:55:40They won't pull the plug independent of Moscow.
1:55:42Okay.
1:55:43Whatever they do will be, will be shown.
1:55:46One thing that, if I can, before we come to this one, she doesn't mind.
1:55:51I have, I remember what happened to you too, you remember too, but I was here, and I know what happened, and I know how embarrassing it was for us now.
1:55:59Henry, I do not.
1:56:00We've got to play Moscow very carefully.
1:56:01If we ever get a feeling they're going to break off the summit, we're going to break it off first.
1:56:07No question.
1:56:08We have got to do it.
1:56:09See?
1:56:11No question.
1:56:12Close to the bridge.
1:56:13So that's... Joe Grant called.
1:56:17They're spooked.
1:56:18He's not at all sure of himself.
1:56:20He says he notices that the Russians are very modest in their response.
1:56:24He said, do you guys know what you're doing?
1:56:26I said, Joe, write anything you want.
1:56:30He said, why are you, he said, why don't you, I don't know.
1:56:38Ambassador, how are you?
1:56:42Welcome to town.
1:56:45Hello to town.
1:56:47We walk to town.
1:56:48Ambassador, they want a picture of us.
1:56:52We've already had it on the screen.
1:56:55It was spent here like this.
1:56:57It was spent here.
1:57:04I want to have one of you holding the message.
1:57:11He's got a message for me.
1:57:13All right.
1:57:13All right.
1:57:15Now let's get one of Dr. Fisher in, too.
1:57:17He used to go to Warsaw, too.
1:57:18You've never been to Warsaw, have you?
1:57:21No one once told me that once.
1:57:22I was once in Warsaw.
1:57:24Oh, yeah.
1:57:27In 1964.
1:57:27So now I've got to come around.
1:57:30I've got to go to Warsaw.
1:57:32I've got to go to Warsaw.
1:57:38I appreciate that very much.
1:57:47And Prime Minister, this is the Prime Minister.
1:57:49Well, it's enough, it's enough.
1:58:03Let me say, my visit last time to Poland, so much has happened because Mr. Kolomko was there.
1:58:10Is he still living?
1:58:12Is he still living?
1:58:13He's a great old man now.
1:58:15He's about 67, 68.
1:58:16Oh, he's not too old.
1:58:17He's sure might be older than I.
1:58:21Yes, because we have some problems with him.
1:58:24Thanks.
1:58:30He was a strong man.
1:58:31I remember when he was very strong.
1:58:37I thought that he lived in Khrushchev, I remember.
1:58:41I wrote that in my book, you know.
1:58:44But that's because he was Polish, you see.
1:58:47Very strong people, especially for the part of Poland, for the southeast part of Poland.
1:58:54It's a very beautiful letter.
1:58:55Very nice, very nice.
1:58:57And he said, I'll show you that I'm in a separate department to be one time here in the United States.
1:59:02Oh, was he?
1:59:02Yes, he was here.
1:59:03Was he an ambassador?
1:59:06No, no, he was a deputy prime minister.
1:59:09He was the first to be here.
1:59:12And Alan, he is a new chairman of the state.
1:59:18He's the president, the chairman.
1:59:22Well, we will, uh, uh... We will, uh, we will look forward to coming, uh, to, uh, as you know, uh,
1:59:54Because I have said, and you are aware, we have differences in types of government, differences about certain
2:00:09areas of the world.
2:00:11But the United States seeks good relations with all countries.
2:00:16We particularly have a reason to seek good relations with Poland, because there's so many Polish-American, and they all want...
2:00:22One-third of the Polish nation is in the United States.
2:00:25One-third.
2:00:26One-third.
2:00:26Right.
2:00:29Yes.
2:00:29In fact, that's way too good a difference.
2:00:31And we want to, we will do that, and it's not doing good.
2:00:35having full regard for your right to have any independent policy.
2:00:38And for us, we have an independent policy.
2:00:40But there are many areas where our two governments can work together.
2:00:43And that's what we try to seek in these.
2:00:45That's what I was trying to do in China.
2:00:47That's what I will be doing in the Soviet Union.
2:00:49And that's what we'll be doing in Poland.
2:00:51But with Poland, I will go with a little different feeling, because I know so many Polish friends in Chicago, and Cleveland, and Pittsburgh, and New York, and California.
2:01:02And they say, you've got to go to Warsaw.
2:01:06You know the cardinal that I was going to mention in Philadelphia is a Polish.
2:01:10Do you know him?
2:01:12The Catholic cardinal in Philadelphia.
2:01:16He's a Christian.
2:01:18Is that right?
2:01:18He speaks pretty good Polish, I don't think.
2:01:23He told me that when I spoke there at some fair, he said, he considered himself the second-ranked Pole.
2:01:34Where will we stay there, Mr. President?
2:01:36Will we stay at the guesthouse?
2:01:38It hasn't been worked out yet, Mr. President.
2:01:40Whatever they want.
2:01:41The Polish government has requested that we inform them of the number of the parties so that they can make a specific proposal.
2:01:52We will look forward to coming to, as you know, as I have said and you are aware,
2:02:22We have differences in types of government, differences about certain areas of the world, but the United States seeks good relations with all countries.
2:02:37We particularly have a reason to seek good relations with Poland because there's so many Polish Americans and they all want to have good relations.
2:02:44One-third of the Polish nation is in the United States.
2:02:49But we, in fact, and we want to, we will do that, and it's not to, having full regard for your right to have any independent policy, and for us to have an independent policy, but there are many areas where our two governments can work together, and that's what we try to seek in these, that's what I was trying to do in China, that's what I will be doing in the Soviet Union, and that's what we'll be doing in Poland, and, but with Poland, I will go with the
2:03:14A little different feeling because I know so many Polish friends in Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, New York, California.
2:03:23They say, you've got to go to Warsaw.
2:03:26Philadelphia, yeah.
2:03:27You know, the cardio that I'm going to do in Philadelphia is a Polish.
2:03:31You know that?
2:03:33The Catholic Cardinal, who was on the cross, he's the only Buddhist of Buddha's time.
2:03:40Is that right?
2:03:41He speaks pretty good.
2:03:44He told me that when I spoke there at some time there, he said, he considered himself the second Grand Pope.
2:03:51He's the second Grand Pope.
2:03:54Where will we stay there, Mr. President?
2:03:59Hasn't been worked out yet, Mr. President.
2:04:02The Polish government has requested that we inform them of the number of the party so that they can make a specific proposal.
2:04:10And Black Station will be visiting there on this.
2:04:16Well, I want to do whatever their government wants.
2:04:20And to meet their needs.
2:04:23I think after we have given the Polish government the composition of our party, they seem very confident that they could work that far.
2:04:51I thought it was so short time, only one day.
2:05:00Well, you see, the difficulty is we have such a long visit to Russia that when I'm spending one day in Iran, I have to cut the shot short.
2:05:09She's not very happy about the understands.
2:05:12But I said, look, I've got to go to Poland.
2:05:15But we'll fill the day.
2:05:17And I want to see all the officials.
2:05:21And you can do a lot of them today, too.
2:05:29You can't do much sightseeing.
2:05:31Mrs. Mixon, I think Mrs. Mixon would like to give me something out of here.
2:05:40Well, I think it's the best thing, Mr.
2:05:42Ambassador, for me.
2:05:44She likes to visit those things that relate to people, like schools, hospitals, you know, people's homes, cultural, but more people rather than things.
2:06:05and the wheel of hilarious work out is fine.
2:06:09I would say one thing that might be a nice thing, just a small matter of experience.
2:06:15In 1959, I heard the Postman Boys Choir.
2:06:19And they came and sang here in the White House last year.
2:06:23And if they are still there, maybe they might hear them again.
2:06:27Or some other.
2:06:28I don't care.
2:06:30But whatever you want.
2:06:31The best course we have today here in the 1950s
2:06:38Is your town Warsaw or do you live in another part?
2:06:47I am living in Warsaw, but I am coming from Wozniak.
2:06:51So it's the western part of Poland.
2:06:53Oh, I see.
2:06:56Oh, the way down.
2:07:01Yeah.
2:07:02It is the first day that you answer.
2:07:04The second day is June the 1st.
2:07:08When I came to Poland with the President in 1964, I had a lot of Polish students, and they heard that I was in Poland, and about eight of them came from as far away as Krakow,
2:07:38without telling me, and just sat down in the lobby of my hotel after I showed up.
2:07:43I was really terribly touched.
2:07:45They didn't know whether I could ever see them.
2:07:47If you have any of your students there now, I'd like to shake their hand.
2:07:52Oh, yes.
2:07:54I'm very proud of you, sir.
2:07:55I studied in Paraguay for six months.
2:08:00When?
2:08:0038.
2:08:0038.
2:08:01You were 100 years old.
2:08:02Yes, I was.
2:08:03I was a reporter there for a long time.
2:08:05How about that question?
2:08:07Berkeley, too?
2:08:08Where were you at Berkeley?
2:08:10What year?
2:08:11The 8th of the 9th.
2:08:12The 8th of the 9th.
2:08:19And, well, that's interesting.
2:08:21I was a young lawyer then.
2:08:22Yes, young.
2:08:23That's right, yeah.
2:08:26Did you like Berkeley?
2:08:27It's a great, great place.
2:08:28Oh, yes, I remember Berkeley from the pre-war times.
2:08:31We had a small, beautiful university.
2:08:32Beautiful.
2:08:33Beautiful.
2:08:34Say again, everything.
2:08:35But today, I saw that Berkeley is so big.
2:08:37About six or seven years ago.
2:08:39And you live back?
2:08:40Back.
2:08:41It's a colossal university.
2:08:42Someday, someday you'll have to go, and I'd like to hear you.
2:08:46Well, we all look forward to visiting your country, and I can assure you that we will...
2:08:54We both, as I said, we want the visit to be one that will show the friendship between our two peoples, recognizing the differences that our governments may have, but trying to find areas of agreement, respecting each other.
2:09:10That's the only basis for a new east-west relationship.
2:09:13We understand that very much.
2:09:16And we think if we can get that, we can understand with your government that we can find parallel areas to work together.
2:09:24particularly in the economic field, that it will be very fruitful.
2:09:32It can be self-sustaining to at least help issues.
2:09:38No problem can ever be solved.
2:09:40You can only start from the self-sustaining.
2:09:43You know, as an economist, you know that you can never solve any problem.
2:09:47You just start from that.
2:09:53We're very good to see you.
2:09:54That's for you to tell me.
2:09:55Thank you.
2:09:58We'll see you at the center.
2:10:00Yes, thank you.
2:10:01What's up?
2:10:02What's up?
2:10:03Yeah, I'll be seeing you.
2:10:04Oh, yes.
2:10:05Well, you've been working on this for a long time.
2:10:13Thank you.
2:10:16Two days after bombing, I thought...
2:10:19I want to see the press people, but Mr. President, you were in Hanoi, and you saw the new legislation today, 48 hours after the bombing of Haifa.
2:10:39The Polish ambassador sent such a woman, brought such a woman to Texas.
2:10:44Of course, that's an invitation written for the bombing.
2:10:48but he delivered it 48 hours after.
2:10:49You think they had a better communication?
2:10:51Oh, yes.
2:10:51They probably went to the satellite hill before sending it.
2:10:56It means two things.
2:10:57It means the Russians didn't stop them from sending it, and that they delivered it.
2:11:04Now, also, as far as our press is concerned, this announcement, what are they going to say?
2:11:10The communists are very mad at you.
2:11:16Is that what you're going to be watching for us about now?
2:11:18No, I want to McClasky, Hankin, and Ziegler meet every morning, and I want to position them.
2:11:24But last week, and then I have the Wessex meeting, and then I have the freedom campaign, but that will be only 15 minutes.
2:11:31When is your Wessex meeting?
2:11:33Now, at 11.
2:11:35But be sure to take the very strong, very line in kicking the Democrats.
2:11:42Now, they've got to be kicked for them to be on the bases.
2:11:47Why, in this period, are they constantly supporting the invaders of South Vietnam, rather than the Southian major defending their homeland?
2:12:02I really want to crack a little bit of the treason business out there.
2:13:48you
2:15:31I was going to say is that I want everybody to be... Peter didn't have at all this presentation in making this speech that he made.
2:15:40I don't think he realized his guiltiness as a Catholic.
2:15:45And the speech he made in there, he's making on national television.
2:15:52The thing I was going to say is that, talking of all the things that they were concerned,
2:16:01I raised the point about the fact that we let the Democrats last week have a field day of just knocking our brains out.
2:16:10And they had called and said that he thought it was because they had gotten an idea from you, which they thought also was to be that we were not to take any position.
2:16:25Well, I think they misunderstood.
2:16:27I mean, I think the point was that you
2:16:29But I'll be sure we always have you out to defend, right?
2:16:34And so forth.
2:16:35But be that as it may, it's my total fault.
2:16:40There's no loss.
2:16:42It's at least what I've been able to turn out out there.
2:16:46But now they must be savagely hit.
2:16:47They must be savagely hit.
2:16:50You know, now that they're out there... No question.
2:16:53You see, the rhetoric now is escalated, Henry.
2:16:56There's no...
2:16:57There has to...
2:16:57There's better no way to be avoided.
2:16:59But now they must be savagely hit.
2:17:02What we should avoid if we can, Mr. President, is an introduction of a lot of resolutions in the Senate.
2:17:10For this reason, if there is a resolution that will come up for a vote in two to three weeks,
2:17:15then Hanoi will have another excuse to wait to see how that resolution will come.
2:17:20The point is that the resolution is something we cannot control because in fact they're likely to be driven off of it if they think that the resolution
2:17:34may put them in the view of being defeatists and appeasers.
2:17:38Yet, on the other hand, they think they have a free shot at us.
2:17:41You see, this resolution, I think, is almost impedable if they're going to put one up.
2:17:46And what we have to do is to filibuster, fight it, take it on, take it on in every goddamn way you possibly can.
2:17:51Actually, I don't think Mr. President...
2:17:53I must, because we've already got one.
2:17:54I'm in favor of attacking anybody who's made a statement
2:18:01I don't think that they had a field day last week, because I don't think they were saying much last week.
2:18:06They didn't start yelling until we bombed Hanoi and Taipan.
2:18:11And now we have to hit back.
2:18:14They did.
2:18:15They didn't get as much play, I think, as some of our people thought.
2:18:22As they look at the new submarines over at the Muskie, before the bombing as well as afterwards.
2:18:30And basically, because they're presidential candidates, they get more of a play than they otherwise would.
2:18:36A query.
2:18:37Has Scott Mansfield taken off now?
2:18:39Yeah.
2:18:41Chinese statement is very mild, Mr. President.
2:18:44Mansfield made a statement saying this will prolong Du Bois, will make his task in Shanghai the trust proof he doesn't know a goddamn thing.
2:18:52His task in Shanghai.
2:18:53You know, we've allowed, we've given him really the extra bit of rope here, as if he had any goddamn special task or mission.
2:19:01He doesn't have a thing.
2:19:02It's a 10-man task.
2:19:03When I tell the Chinese ambassador tomorrow that I'm going to Moscow, we are now playing this reverse.
2:19:12They are not going to look for trouble with us.
2:19:15Because that show will be in Vermont.
2:19:18What we get out of the Moscow trip is pressure on Peking, pressure on Hanoi.
2:19:22What they get out of the Moscow trip is pressure on Peking.
2:19:26Right.
2:19:27We don't mind giving them the pressure on Peking.
2:19:31But as far as Mansfield is concerned, let me say that when he returns, he's got to be savagely taken off, too, because he has been, you want to remember, with his nice manner, he has been vicious in the way that he has
2:19:47You see, what I think, Mr. President, is I now think that deal that I suggested to you this morning, I don't think the Russians could, if they wanted to, deliver a final settlement.
2:20:00What I should do is pretend that that's what we want and retreat to an interim solution so that it looks reasonable.
2:20:07The interim solution being?
2:20:09The interim solution being we say let's return to the status quo before the offensive.
2:20:16They withdraw the three divisions that came across the DMZ.
2:20:19We stop the bombing.
2:20:21They scale down their offensive actions in the south.
2:20:24Russia guarantees this.
2:20:26And talks, Litochto returns to Paris and talks start.
2:20:30Mr. President, we deliver that.
2:20:35I think, first of all, we can murder our critics here.
2:20:38Second, I believe if talks start under those circumstances, Hanoi
2:20:46may negotiate seriously for this reason.
2:20:48They've thrown their Sunday punch this year.
2:20:52They were defeated on the ground and hit very hard in the North.
2:20:57If they do it again next year, after you've been re-elected, they'll be even worse off.
2:21:04I'd make one other condition.
2:21:05We'll stop the bombing in the North, provided they withdraw their three divisions across the BNZ and return to POWs.
2:21:11I think we've got to insist on that at this point.
2:21:14Well, that they won't do.
2:21:16Try.
2:21:17I'll certainly try.
2:21:18You understand.
2:21:19Or at least they let him sign the P.O.W.s, unless they don't get deceived and he can retreat there.
2:21:26They've got to start some token on the P.O.W.s, the second wounded, for example.
2:21:30Right.
2:21:30Doesn't that make sense?
2:21:32That makes sense.
2:21:35But let me say that I'm not...
2:21:36But you see, then I would murder the Democrats if that is stopped.
2:21:43Well, we can murder them, except you understand that they go into their convention and we go into the campaign.
2:21:48But the war is still going on.
2:21:51That's our problem.
2:21:54You see, the only way we can get this thing out of the way, and that's why we may have to go the harder line, the blockade and the rest of it, rather than taking the half-assed line like this, the only way we can get this out of the way is to get
2:22:09I think, Mr. President, if we go this route, and if we get the Russians involved getting it settled this far, we have a real chance of getting it settled well before the election, because then I do not see what Hanoi is going to wait for.
2:22:23What will be better for them next year?
2:22:26Well, it has to be tied in, then, with the denunciation in June.
2:22:33And we've got to consider the May announcement as to whether or not that has to be drawn now.
2:22:38I wonder if the May announcement...
2:22:40I would not announce anything this week.
2:22:42Why not do it next week?
2:22:42What do you mean, next week?
2:22:46Oh, yeah, the May announcement.
2:22:48And for your press conference.
2:22:49But the point is whether that main announcement should simply be a reduction of forces, or whether at that point we want to use the draft D then.
2:22:58I would not, Mr. President.
2:23:00I agree.
2:23:01To announce the reduction of forces in the middle of an offensive is such a show of confidence.
2:23:08Besides, we have the Moscow thing next week, too.
2:23:13Available.
2:23:14You mean, maybe?
2:23:15I mean, do you mean services?
2:23:17Yeah.
2:23:19What do you mean?
2:23:20But we wouldn't start this if the talks were going on, would we?
2:23:24Why not?
2:23:24We said it was a ranch in Moscow.
2:23:25Michael, you know, that might be an idea.
2:23:29Supposing you planned it.
2:23:30I might go to the press conference with that.
2:23:32That's what I mean.
2:23:32You said it.
2:23:33Moscow and talks are going to result.
2:23:34And then, well, I'd have to fire gas those sons of bitches.
2:23:38That's what I mean.
2:23:41And then I could sort of, in a low-key way, also get a few thousand troops out of there.
2:23:45Yeah.
2:23:46I've reduced forces to, I've decided that it's never going to be 40,000, it's 50,000.
2:23:52Much better.
2:23:52So it looks like a, and that's a half a million, isn't it?
2:23:57Exactly.
2:23:57That's 500 short of half a million.
2:24:00Yeah.
2:24:00I'm trying to reduce this to 50,000, so it's a good force.
2:24:04It's better if you have to do it.
2:24:05It sounds like a good run.
2:24:06Right.
2:24:07Everybody can talk about half a million, 50,000.
2:24:11When will you return all that?
2:24:13My instinct is, Mr. President, that next week I am going to, you know, the Russians are tough.
2:24:20I may not be able to get it done.
2:24:24But we should try.
2:24:27You just talked about the rain of the day.
2:24:29That's what it's about.
2:24:30He's bringing the message.
2:24:31No, he brought me the message.
2:24:33The talk would have been just to show that we are tasked to say that we won't reply to this message.
2:24:38Oh, he's going to reply to the message.
2:24:39No, no, I'm going to reply to the message.
2:24:41He will reply to the message.
2:24:42He won't reply to the message.
2:24:45We understand that's the position you have to take.
2:24:49I won't even say that.
2:24:49Wait a minute.
2:24:51But you've got to understand that we're taking the position that we're going to take and the President is not.
2:24:55I mean, we deflected one bit and he has no answer to this.
2:24:58You see what I mean?
2:25:00If I could be deflected a bit, would I understand that?
2:25:02And our talks throughout the summit are a separate matter, a separate matter of Vietnam.
2:25:09So then when you're talking about Vietnam, I'll stick it to him.
2:25:21I think I know what worries you, though.
2:25:24Oh, the blockade works, the craft is, that's another thing they call the craft.
2:25:29He said, he discovered this opiate embassy about the blockade.
2:25:33I said, I don't know if you know that, there's a lot of talk around here.
2:25:37But I didn't say there won't be any blockade.
2:25:40He said, don't you think the blockade is easy to break?
2:25:42I said, I don't expect there to be any blockade.
2:25:52OK.
2:25:53It's interesting.
2:25:54The UPI story has moved out of Moscow.
2:25:56We just got it here.
2:25:58But a source said that the president will have four days in Moscow, and he will try to go to Leningrad, Kiev, and stay at the Kremlin Palace.
2:26:09They said a 20-man advance team was headed by Zegner, but I don't know what they got that.
2:26:16And so a source out of the Kremlin
2:26:21I'm not going to get out.
2:26:23It was moving now.
2:26:24Yeah, I think it was so loud in that person's place.
2:26:27Fine, good.
2:26:27All right, I'll go see you later.
2:26:29Yeah.
2:26:30Bye.
2:26:30Did these, is Rogers standing firm?
2:26:34Yes, sir.
2:26:34Agents, of course, and all the men.
2:26:39Agents on the UK now.
2:26:39But Rogers is taking the line.
2:26:41If they do 12 divisions of a communist attack, what is the difference now between the bombing of the North and the past?
2:26:47The facts are that there are 12 divisions.
2:26:50Equipment.
2:26:51They need the oil.
2:26:52They need the oil products for all these large and giant pieces of equipment.
2:26:56He said, why don't you pay attention to it?
2:27:00When the other side was lying and perpetrating the fraud of the world, why didn't you pay attention to it?
2:27:06So he said, I hope he holds.
2:27:09He's got to be on for how long?
2:27:12Two hours?
2:27:13Well, they're dragging him out now.
2:27:18I hope they...
2:27:21There's some way to cut him off.
2:27:22He's made the point.
2:27:23Did you get this?
2:27:26Yes, I did.
2:27:27She's fine on tomorrow.
2:27:31Her point is that Ripley and people currently have been invited to the thing.
2:27:36The zoo says they're going to get healthy.
2:27:39So I can't wait.
2:27:40Can't we change the Chinese ping-pong game to meet at Lansing?
2:27:45I can check that.
2:27:45I think it's out there.
2:27:47Well, we can see.
2:27:48Let me check Bob.
2:27:49Why not?
2:27:50We don't need to check Bob.
2:27:51What do you mean?
2:27:52Well, I was going to find out who's playing.
2:27:56And if it is, we'll just handle it.
2:27:59So that's what it is.
2:28:00Okay.
2:28:07Are they going to play something for me?
2:28:10Do I have to watch them?
2:28:12Yes, sir.
2:28:13The Chinese couldn't have them do it, just ask them if they could do it Wednesday morning, because of my schedule.
2:28:21And then she'll go off and do that Tuesday.
2:28:24I think we can do that, ask them if they can shift their schedule, get on it right away.
2:32:19I probably do have some questions, I'll get them ready.
2:32:47Brian's got to be nice again.
2:32:49I hope you're feeling all right.
2:32:54I don't know how you're doing out there.
2:32:57Oh, I'm fine.
2:33:00Keeping your strength up.
2:33:02I'm fine.
2:33:03I'm fine.
2:33:04I'm fine.
2:33:05I'm fine.
2:33:07I'm fine.
2:33:12I'm fine.
2:33:13I'm fine.
2:33:18It's hard for people to, you know, it's very hard for people who don't know the likes of your life so much to say the things that people want to hear.
2:33:28Sometimes you realize it's not you that's got to stick your chin out and get in hell and survive.
2:33:42He has done some of that, though, I think.
2:33:43He did in Muskie, but I think he did it, what, about six or seven years ago.
2:33:48It's hard, though.
2:33:49I mean, this is a tough deal for a Secretary of State.
2:33:53You know, because he comes up against terrible committees.
2:33:56There are all these horrible people out there.
2:34:01So we're going to be fine today.
2:34:06We're going to rack them up a little.
2:34:20They really do.
2:34:20They're just terrible.
2:34:21Oh, sure.
2:34:21Well, they're fine.
2:34:24I'm not very fine.
2:34:26The only question is how it all comes out.
2:34:27It's going to come out all right.
2:34:36It's just amazing.
2:34:36I sit around and they don't really think anymore.
2:34:38They don't really think anymore.
2:34:39They're just in the blue.
2:34:44They don't think of the country.
2:34:46They want the energy to win.
2:34:47They put the belch in them.
2:34:49could have that .
2:34:50Sure.
2:36:02So we've got a real box on the schedule for that.
2:36:09This goddamn table for this team comes tomorrow, too, and they can't get it with an Anderson Wednesday without such a... Connie had gone ahead and invited people.
2:36:26I mean, they just, you know, got a lot of new stories.
2:36:27Now they're supposed to kill them.
2:36:28They definitely got the...
2:36:32In fact, they helped the Panthers out.
2:36:33How do we want them to do it?
2:36:44We want them to help her work with his secret, but he didn't put it fully.
2:36:48He went and he realized it's funny.
2:36:49No, no, Connie, I'll check with you later.
2:36:50Connie is just impossible, I believe.
2:36:52She's so jealous.
2:36:54And I'm going to get ahold of her.
2:36:58And she's going to work on it.
2:37:00See, Connie...
2:37:01Pat is not talking about taking Connie to Russia.
2:37:04Connie wants to go there.
2:37:06If she goes, by God, she's going to go over there and take Ziegler's orders.
2:37:09She'd be really pretty awful.
2:37:12I don't think she would.
2:37:15I don't think she'd hurt anyone.
2:37:17I'm not talking about others.
2:37:26Well, but you were absolutely right.
2:37:32She has no idea.
2:37:34She thinks that things just happen.
2:37:37They don't just happen.
2:37:39And Brenda doesn't get in her way.
2:37:41I mean, get around, do a few things.
2:37:44My house is different.
2:37:45My kitchen is different.
2:37:46I really climbed down.
2:37:48God in China was a disaster.
2:37:50I was...
2:37:52The whole staff, everybody walking with me every place I went.
2:37:54I mean, I was totally surrounded, but this time it was just the staff and everybody else on their separate sites, including Rogers.
2:38:02And if I ever go out to look at anything, I'm going alone.
2:38:06Yeah, and including Pat, because Pat gets all her own pictures, and then every picture with you.
2:38:12I know.
2:46:57The retired members of Congress, I'm on the Army Corps, and I'm on the White House.
2:47:09The White House should be shot right now.
2:47:33And with regard to this paper earlier this week, I would like to have it set up more like a Christmas party with a chorus in the East Room and with one out in the hall.
2:47:47Maybe I don't come through on this one.
2:47:50Do you remember the Christmas parties?
2:47:53Do you remember we had them?
2:47:54So that there are things going on.
2:47:56And I thought then that a chorus there, too.
2:48:00Something that rather than just people sitting around dancing around playing the cello, Jesus Christ, that just gradually makes me hurt anyway.
2:48:12Good entertainment.
2:48:15It's good of the entertainment, you know, that is going on for them to come up with a good idea, a good game plan.
2:48:22Because there's a thousand people there and they can be seen.
2:48:28We should be receiving it.
2:48:29Maybe it's a little over there.
2:48:31Maybe it's over in the hall.
2:48:37We're going to have to work on a scheme.
2:48:39We're going to have to work on it right away because the damn thing is a spirit.
2:48:46Just say that we will put it in the hall.
2:48:49But the point is that that means you can't have the music in the hall.
2:48:57But after we leave, we'll put the music in the hall.
2:48:59I want music in two different places.
2:49:03Put something in there so that you see it.
2:49:09You can't have a thousand people standing in line for two hours just drinking martinis.
2:49:14They've got to have something to listen to.
2:49:16That's why I want that.
2:49:17And I want a program going on and an audience of people who will come through the line in a leisurely, graceful way.
2:49:24Discuss it with them.
2:49:25They do very well, but they don't understand sometimes that sort of thing.
2:49:48And yeah, we only have this one, and then we've got the Duke class, which is going to be a nice affair.
2:49:55And that's something that I'm just doing for the thrill of those guys.
2:49:59I mean, I don't know any of the damn thing, but I knew them many years ago.
2:50:03It's like the way your colleagues class, you do it.
2:50:05So you're going to probably learn from your colleagues class.
2:50:08So I guess we can let Pierre finally have the time to do that.
2:50:11Yes, sir, that is.
2:50:13And for those guys that served in the Navy with me, well, what the hell?
2:50:17It means a lot to them.
2:50:18Why wait on it?
2:50:19Because they served in the Navy with us.
2:50:22So we do that collection there.
2:50:28You realize that's what it is.
2:50:33So we've just got a few more events to do.
2:50:34We do them well.
2:50:35The thing they had in Canada, that concert type thing, is a good way if you ever wanted to have a big...
2:50:41I'm thankful to have people in for that, and then afterwards, you know, an invitation or something like that.
2:50:51Well, I mentioned it to people that we should use the God, then it can't be centered that way.
2:50:59And then have our, we can't use it.
2:51:05I thought the OAS thing I mentioned.
2:51:10We didn't do it because somebody else was using the hall.
2:51:13That's silly, silly.
2:51:15But there's really nothing, no event left that we can use that for.
2:51:18But what we should do is to go around and hear a concert sometime at 8 o'clock and have a buffet afterwards where everybody sits down and has a nice dinner.
2:51:28And have the White House staff go down and compare the goddamn thing.
2:51:31Like, you know, we carry the White House staff halfway around the world.
2:51:34Why not put on a statement around there?
2:51:37Now, uh...
2:51:40But I don't know of any event that would do that for us.
2:51:43I don't either.
2:51:44He's never been in the White House as a state guest, so we've got to get him a state dinner.
2:51:51Now that would be better for something else.
2:51:55Well, if you had somebody who had been here before for a state dinner, then you'd take them there.
2:52:02That, see, is what the Canadians were doing.
2:52:05So you didn't have the same rigor.
2:52:07The horror is to have two dinners of the same type.
2:52:12Well, not the same, but the same thing.
2:52:16You go to a concert, and you go there, and the elegance of the concert, have that, and then afterwards you drop out and you have yourselves a big buffet, and a big toast, and get the hell out of there.
2:52:35I'm going to push that next time.
2:52:40We have no time.
2:52:41We don't have any, we have no, no problem on it now because we'll also mention how we're on our 10th for the day for the Navy.
2:52:55I mean, for my service reception and stuff like that.
2:53:01And our anchors, too.
2:53:02The color will be a little more.
2:53:18These are just ideas.
2:53:19I don't want to have a case made out of them.
2:53:22I don't want a 30-page number written to me about it.
2:53:25But they're ideas that, you see, they weren't decided.
2:53:28They were the Butterfield and that woman over there, Lucy, and so forth, all sit down and they do a beautiful job.
2:53:37But they may not know my views, see, on these.
2:53:40These are my views.
2:53:41Pass them into the hopper.
2:53:43But I don't give a goddamn if they decide to have chamber music.
2:53:45So that's fine.
2:53:47I've got the best I can do.
2:53:48The only thing I draw the line on is that stuff, whatever.
2:53:59I will not have those modern natural disparities, no.
2:54:07Well, they make other suggestions other than that.
2:54:12Well, it's modern.
2:54:14You can get it modern, it's Japanese, it's homosexual.
2:54:21There's no reason to give yourself the role of that sitting out of it.
2:54:25That might not happen in the West.
2:54:26I don't mind having a homosexual in there, but I mean, I'm not going to have a whole man group that way.
2:54:30Like, that's horrible.
2:54:31But it's LA, the modern dance, not the university that you have.
2:54:36Other people have a perfect right to it, but we don't have that here.
2:54:47Noah Lennon, Elizabeth Lennon, Nancy Hanch, do a tremendous job because while I don't care about your music, they do.
2:54:56They go around the country and make all those clowns think I like it, which is marvelous.
2:54:59I'm all for it.
2:55:00I just don't, I just mean that, you know, you have a right in the high house to have what fits you.
2:55:06It's not going to be so dishonest.
2:55:08You have some kind of life.
2:55:11But Noah Lennon and Nancy are just great.
2:55:17They looked enthusiastic.
2:55:22Modern painting, whatever.
2:55:31Those are nice and enthusiastic.
2:55:34And for those people, the old baby crowd, the lawsuit crowd, and now we've done all of them.
2:55:39Three, it doesn't mean anybody left.
2:55:48We've done a great job of having all those people, I think.
2:55:49Well, if you stop and think of it, I mean, it's a big memorandum.
2:55:53Our PR people ought to get out of it.
2:55:59The quality of entertainment we've had here at the Pine House, the events that we've done, the way we've used the house and so forth, that story is up to an extent.
2:56:07The quality of the entertainment.
2:56:10I think, as I said, the Kennedys had the poor old Pebble to sell us.
2:56:17Great old man.
2:56:19He's 80.
2:56:20He can't play the cello.
2:56:21And for that reason, the Kennedys are found in the history of the art of the White House.
2:56:30And we've had 20 people who have made it to the Red and Black Book of Psalms.
2:56:35I mean, why?
2:56:36Now, they haven't all been there.
2:56:39But we've had really great impressions.
2:56:41I think that's Connie's fault that we don't do good press on this kind of thing.
2:56:46I don't know what she does.
2:56:48She doesn't know how.
2:56:49I don't know what it is.
2:56:52When you say the good press, I'm just being interested in the story.
2:56:54I don't think they want to write the fact that we have high quality entertainment.
2:56:58Well, they've read it.
2:56:59Somebody has to tell them.
2:57:00Well, I wrote the story.
2:57:04I don't think Connie's very much...
2:57:11That is her job, isn't it?
2:57:13She should be working seven things about the White House and that.
2:57:18Really, all the time.
2:59:56Well, I don't know whether it's good or bad, but we can go along.
3:00:01And, uh, election.
3:00:03Well, that's, Mitchell has, uh, McGregor and Martin over there now, going over the details on, and nailing it now.
3:00:10They're going to nail it.
3:00:12They think it's nailed it.
3:00:13Well, that's Mitchell's first report.
3:00:16The next step is McGregor now has to go to see Irvin and nail it.
3:00:20Maybe we won't go on the basis of Fannin.
3:00:22Well, no, Fannin's not that equivalent.
3:00:25Now, Marty apparently sat in with Fannin, so he knows what was covered there.
3:00:31But now, you get the immediate follow-up of McGregor hitting her.
3:00:42McGregor will not make a mistake.
3:00:46Oh, he's a very precise father.
3:00:48He's a damn good lawyer.
3:00:49You know, he's, he's, he's plenty of business for a lot of people.
3:00:55He's very firm on it.
3:00:57I watched Rogers for a little while and, uh,
3:01:00My view is he's doing extremely well.
3:01:03I found that I didn't see enough to get a good feeling, but I saw the rap.
3:01:07I saw the network rap up with Justine Drew superbly.
3:01:11But Bill himself, he looked firmer than he usually looks.
3:01:17And very much in command of himself in the whole thing.
3:01:21I think he had himself psyched up.
3:01:23Pretty good for him.
3:01:25At least you got the feeling that he did.
3:01:30He didn't back down at all.
3:01:32Case gave him a big, a long time.
3:01:34Well, Case did a good job of praising the president and talking about the Vietnamization and his great admiration for what this administration's done in Vietnam.
3:01:43And he said, had his but, which is, well, we ought to stop the air war.
3:01:49And Bill hit him back very hard, explained it, did it very rationally, and it was dang good television.
3:01:55I hope a lot of people watched it, which they didn't.
3:01:58What are we going to do tonight?
3:02:00Oh, we'll get something tonight.
3:02:04Hell yeah.
3:02:05No question.
3:02:06Move on.
3:02:06Have those did it?
3:02:07This is a different situation than how Church hit him on it.
3:02:11Yeah, I heard about why this is going to hit Dr. Rogers, but he's probably still on.
3:02:17He didn't say anything.
3:02:19Oh, hold that call.
3:02:20He's still testifying in college.
3:02:22He didn't put the television, but I think he was still going.
3:02:25They had him end at the hearing.
3:02:30I guess my breakers aren't even trying to get the goddamn pieces out of the day.
3:02:35Oh, yes.
3:02:35They all want to hear it.
3:02:37Yes, sir.
3:02:37Even Mitchell does.
3:02:39And Mitchell's fine.
3:02:40He called me and he said, I think we've got to get this moving today and get the speech wrapped up for claimants because he should go on today with it.
3:02:50So he was all set to pull the plug.
3:02:51This is what, before he had heard back from the urban meeting.
3:02:55Now, of course, it's for a hoax.
3:02:59But, uh, we're going in, we're getting the, it's just, at the point of the speech, uh, polished, uh, finished, and then, uh, yeah, I don't know what they're, what they mean.
3:03:11I wonder if he just isn't going to say, well, that opens up a new list and all that.
3:03:17Uh, oh, they said, what his point was here, that it's, he needs a face saver to get off of the thing.
3:03:23He doesn't want to push it.
3:03:24He's in a bad...
3:03:27And he is, he's got a, he's got his own PR problem in holding Cline Dean's nomination hostage to the principal question, and it's a question of principal testimony by the White House, especially since he's also, he's on, you know, the opposite wicket before the Supreme Court on Wednesday.
3:03:50He's up on the Senator Gravel thing, where the attorney justice is trying to call Gravel's AA.
3:03:56And Urban is defending him on the grounds that an administrative assistant must be privileged to have his dealings with his senator .
3:04:12It's the other side.
3:04:14It's going to have privilege for the Congress and not for the other.
3:04:18Does anybody attack him for this?
3:04:20Oh, yes.
3:04:20And we've done the... Well, they're waiting to get...
3:04:24He read the whole thing into the congressional record.
3:04:29The quote that he's got in there about separation of powers and the need for an assistance confidential relationship with his senator are...
3:04:39Much better foot than all our Irving's on the subject.
3:04:45So Irving's on it.
3:04:45He's got a problem now.
3:04:49I'm good.
3:04:54Something, something.
3:05:01I was really pleased with Bill.
3:05:06He said, I didn't see enough substance.
3:05:09He may have been totally bad on substance in some parts of it.
3:05:13But boy, he looked good.
3:05:15He looked right into the camera.
3:05:17He looked right in and hit the senators right back.
3:05:23What he needs to do.
3:05:24He got a little, you know, he'd get, raise his voice a little, get a little excited now and then.
3:05:30But he obviously, if he was doing it, you know, he didn't, he was under it.
3:05:35what the patrol was doing because he wanted to.
3:05:41Hit the invasion over and over, a massive invasion.
3:05:45Hit the bloodletting, the bloodbath problem, and we pulled out and left them.
3:05:52They gave him a tough question on the POWs, that you're creating more POWs while we're shooting.
3:06:00We're not getting the straight information that, you know, you get all kinds of stories about how many planes are lost.
3:06:05Bill looked right into the camera and he said, Senator, the correct information is that on those bombings, two planes were lost.
3:06:11An A-4 was lost and the pilot was rescued from the ocean, recovered.
3:06:17and 105 or something was lost and the two crew members have not been recovered that's the extent of the losses well you know then the center said thank you secretary did is that even that's the way it means he was preparing that's the way it should be
3:06:44You said that this was being done for military reasons.
3:06:47What are the diplomatic reasons?
3:06:49And he said, now, I answered a specific question regarding the military reasons.
3:06:53Let me say that there are very important diplomatic reasons.
3:06:55You know, then hit that, too.
3:06:58But he's very, he's a good lawyer.
3:07:01Oh, you know, this is my handle.
3:07:03Henry doesn't give an uncredited courtroom action.
3:07:07As a matter of fact, Bill will do much better than making headlines, Henry.
3:07:11picking and writing the headline in Henry.
3:07:13Well, Dan Ryan is also much better at getting across precise and understandable language in Henry.
3:07:18And making the story we want to make about the massive invasion, about the bloodbath and consequences, about the rather than going off on the science treasure explanation, he trapped him.
3:07:28And he said, well, it's obvious now that we've all agreed here that he trapped Cates on this, that North Vietnam had no intention of negotiating at the table.
3:07:40Obviously, there's no point in our returning to those negotiations.
3:07:43He laughed.
3:07:43He said there's been an offer from North Vietnam this morning to return to the table, which there has.
3:07:51And he laughed and said, yes, if we stop the bombing.
3:07:54But we're, of course, not going to stop the bombing in order to move to the Congress table.
3:07:58We have said we will go to the Congress table when they stop the invasion of South Vietnam.
3:08:05Then he said, well, do you mean all those troops have to be out?
3:08:07He said, I said, when they stop the invasion, they've made a massive move, commitment of troops on an offensive action across the DMZ in violation of everything.
3:08:16He said, when they stop that action, then we'll consider going back to the conference table.
3:08:26And he did the re-bombing thing, he did it well because he laughed, as though, you know, it was an idiotic proposal.
3:08:31In fact, the bombing, they sold that to us once.
3:08:35They sold it in 1968.
3:08:38He didn't say here, but he said it damn effectively.
3:08:41Because they said, what's the difference between the bombing now and the bombing then?
3:08:45It's a totally different situation.
3:08:46In the first place, we had 550,000 American troops in South Vietnam then, and we were engaged in a gun war.
3:08:53Now we have virtually no troops in South Vietnam, except a few that are still leaving that we've got to protect.
3:08:59The President has said consistently, every time he's announced a troop withdrawal, that if the enemy takes actions that endanger the lives of the remaining troops, the President will be telling them to go take appropriate counteractions.
3:09:09And he's done that, and you have to give the President credit.
3:09:11He has said what he's going to do, and he's done it.
3:09:14What he said.
3:09:14And you know, he just, that's good.
3:09:17And you see, he would never think to say anything like that.
3:09:21But it was a dang good line.
3:09:22And then he said, and also, we have a totally different military situation on the other side.
3:09:2712 of their 13 divisions are committed to this invasion of South Vietnam.
3:09:33And they are highly mechanized with sophisticated equipment supplied by other powers.
3:09:38And he'd say Russia, but he'd say Assad.
3:09:42And he said, they're highly dependent on the petroleum supplies and other logistic support from the north.
3:09:49And the bombing attacks now are directed for a specific purpose.
3:09:52We're knocking out that supply line, that logistic support that they're dependent on.
3:09:59And he was damn good.
3:10:02We've got a new case to sell on.
3:10:03That's the way to solve it, too.
3:10:06If you get it, it's too bad it's not in prime time.
3:10:09Well, some of it will be on the news, and we have good coverage.
3:10:12And it's peace.
3:10:15As far as I could see, he did exactly what you wanted him to do.
3:10:20He made his points in damn good fashion.
3:10:28Did they ask him about Muskie's resolution to stop all the fighting right away?
3:10:33I suppose that would come up.
3:10:35That was a squeal.
3:10:37It's unbelievable.
3:10:38Unbelievable.
3:10:47If I were a Democrat, I'd kill him on that.
3:10:55Scoop will probably try to, but he won't.
3:10:56Nobody will listen to him.
3:10:57Wallace won't.
3:11:07Wallace has written you respectfully demanding that you report me in the tax structure immediately.
3:11:15Without the help of Congress.
3:11:19Well, Rumsfeld's reaction to that was, the way we should respond is if the governor will inform me as to how to dissolve the parliament, I'll move ahead with the rest of his suggestion.
3:11:31Have you been able to be in touch with the county?
3:11:39The county will not return to Texas until 7 o'clock tonight.
3:11:43And I think it's better to wait until he gets back.
3:11:44I'll call him down.
3:11:45They all want me to, but I don't think I should.
3:11:47I didn't intend to at all.
3:11:48Yeah.
3:11:48You don't want to even call him over the weekend.
3:11:52Let it ride.
3:12:00I think he gets...
3:12:00I think what I'll do is ask his secretary if I've gotten a point out the first thing tomorrow morning.
3:12:04Yeah.
3:12:04I think he gets charged.
3:12:07I think it helps when they go home, don't you think so?
3:12:09Yes.
3:12:09Just like Johnson.
3:12:10Johnson had to go to Johnson City.
3:12:12He has to get back to the Texans.
3:12:13He's got to get back and slow down.
3:12:25The bombing of High Farm and all that, if the guy's got any class at all, he's got to sit down there in his fields and say, Jesus, why did I do that to that poor guy?
3:12:37Some people...
3:12:38He's doing something like that.
3:12:39I think some people may have been thinking that, as I told you, that was the gray outline.
3:12:43It's the rocket bar line.
3:12:47Well, one thing Colson's using with our troopers, and they're getting them in for briefing this afternoon, the hard line, you know, the guys that will go out and attack, for sure.
3:12:57And one thing he's using is sending them here.
3:13:00It's just practically...
3:13:03He's fallen.
3:13:04He can't believe all this stuff, apparently, according to Chuck.
3:13:08The hawkish term and the point that people are making of, thank God, the president's moving in.
3:13:12What the hell are these people?
3:13:13A lot of volunteered responses.
3:13:16What are these people carping in?
3:13:17I thought he was totally on issues.
3:13:19No.
3:13:20See, he gets voluntary reaction on this stuff.
3:13:24And he can throw in any question he wants.
3:13:26Because they're on a continuous study of more hawkish knowledge.
3:13:31And he's so astonished by it, he's apparently going to come down and have a press conference down here about the reaction of the American people.
3:13:39Well, I think you'll be pleased to know that I've told Henry that I'm going to see him.
3:13:43That's kind of the main reason I'm going to have the witness to vote.
3:13:47So I may have to have a three-four hour meeting.
3:13:56The real problem we've got with Henry is that he's so desperate to want to negotiate that he may want to give.
3:14:03We have a partial interim deal here now that will get us past the next couple of months.
3:14:13I'm inclined to think that I can't let him do that, but at least that's my reminder.
3:14:20Lord, who am I?
3:14:23My view is that at the end of the week, unless the Russians come right down hard in this thing, that we blockade him.
3:14:33In other words, just play the goddamn string right out.
3:14:34And blockade him and say, well, then we blockade him.
3:14:39He better be out of his back.
3:14:43And then when you withdraw him, your horseshoe is up.
3:14:50Well, it's the difference.
3:14:52and this is the total difference between the Johnson so-called escalations and stuff in yours, is that his was always a little bit too little, a little bit too light, and never, he was always on the tail end of the thing getting whipped, where you're on the other side of the thing cracking the whip.
3:15:11And it's a hell of a lot better position to be in.
3:15:20I see you.
3:15:21or Rice is leading to go to Grand Harbor.
3:15:27I'm not particularly impressed by people's,
3:15:32And I don't really believe it's worth my time to receive people who are leaving for the purpose of getting a fat job, even no matter how hard they work.
3:15:42That's just my attitude.
3:15:43I think you're right.
3:15:44And I'll just deal with this.
3:15:46I mean, I've done this with some of the angriest people, and I've done it with others.
3:15:50If they want to leave, let them leave.
3:15:53But you know,
3:15:54You've always got this in the last year.
3:15:56From here on, you probably shouldn't see anybody who's in the last year, but anybody who wants to leave now, he takes off, and goodbye, thank you very much, and what the hell, what do I see?
3:16:07I mean, there's Schultz right there, and you know, Farkway, Buzz, this one was, and if I can rationalize each of them, rationalize this one, Rice is hard.
3:16:16No, not that he worked hard, but he's a hell of a good guy.
3:16:21who can be good for us at Rand.
3:16:23Come, sugar.
3:16:25Please.
3:16:26Please.
3:16:27And so I can't be safe if you find somebody with a Council of Foreign Relations.
3:16:34I'll do it.
3:16:35I'll do it.
3:16:35Don't send me going home.
3:16:36I think you're right.
3:16:38I think, uh, I think too, there's no point in pushing an awful lot of people in this way.
3:16:41I don't mind a little girl going off and this one and the secretary and somebody worked hard in the December and so forth and so on.
3:16:48Forget it.
3:16:50Have them come in after the election.
3:16:53Yeah.
3:16:53Yeah.
3:16:55I think that's right.
3:16:57I think, let's just see.
3:16:58That's Christ.
3:16:59I don't want to make you think that Steve has four or five times, but that's enough.
3:17:04Oh, I mean, I realize you have to do something just to be nice to people, but I just, let me put it this way.
3:17:15I'd rather be nice to people that are staying, rather than people that are leaving.
3:17:19You know, sure, people that are leaving are leaving for a damn good reason, because this is the time when they've got to capitalize on their fat jobs, where they're doing better here than they do on the outside.
3:17:32Correct?
3:17:34Well, it could only be the case for anybody.
3:17:39And if you look at him, like that Senate, you know, Cal, who we had to bring in, he's just such a good guy.
3:17:45Well, what the hell, he can get out now because he can get a fat job now.
3:17:56that this is a bad job.
3:17:59And I understand that, and I don't mind.
3:18:01I don't think they need to come in here and get a picture of the flags and the cufflinks and all that bullshit.
3:18:07That's what I really mean.
3:18:09Because I said, if we've got any time for that, let's take some forwarding barrel that's sticking around here, and she's going to get a bad job, or he, or...
3:18:22You can't move the tennis table until the next day.
3:18:26We'll have two Chinese starts tomorrow, so that's too bad.
3:18:31That's it.
3:18:31Just add a story to the big one.
3:18:34That's fine.
3:18:35I don't think it matters.
3:18:45You have got to talk to Connie, and she is to be under this rock.
3:18:49Now, I am concerned, really, about having her go to Russia.
3:18:53So what?
3:18:54Because I think she's a pain in the ass.
3:18:57And if she goes, she should go as a member of Ron's staff.
3:19:03See what I mean?
3:19:04Yeah, but that's the only way she should have her go, and she really has to be.
3:19:11She is going to go on the plane with us, for example, if you can't have that kind of stuff.
3:19:16Patty's insisting.
3:19:17She's only going as a favor to her.
3:19:20It's just not a good move.
3:19:22I've talked to Kodas about it.
3:19:25Kodas is concerned.
3:19:26And Pat has talked to him.
3:19:30Has she told Connie how she's doing?
3:19:36Bill said it's no big deal.
3:19:37We can handle it if it's just Connie.
3:19:39The problem is if Connie goes, she'll want to take two of her staff people with her.
3:19:42And that, Coda said, is a real problem.
3:19:45In Africa, he had more trouble dealing with Connie and her staff than he did with the Africans and Mrs. Nixon.
3:19:52I mean, the tour that he gave was the staff.
3:19:55And that's always the case.
3:19:56The staff, who doesn't know how to operate on those things, is a pain in the ass.
3:20:00That's why I don't like to take, you know, you like to be nice and take people along.
3:20:04But each one we take along is just another problem.
3:20:07Where are you going to put them?
3:20:09I don't know, it's not right that they are trying to get the treatment.
3:20:14If it's just Connie, we can, CODA said we can control it.
3:20:18Just order it, that way it'll work out in the right time.
3:20:21Just order, it's Connie involved, or there's no room, I guess, for anybody but Connie by herself.
3:20:27And frankly, take a room, it's got to be an incredible number.
3:20:36It's too bad.
3:20:37I don't know what the Christ she does anyway.
3:20:39What the hell does Connie do in terms of selling the...
3:20:43I mean, I'm not trying to sell it to Pat, but I'm in terms of everything from the quality, if you had to pay with the White House to get into that sort of thing.
3:20:51I don't know what the Christ she does except to sit over there and pick away at Ron and the so-called West Wing.
3:20:58Well, there's more than that.
3:20:59She and Lucy fight with each other.
3:21:01Awful.
3:21:02Awful.
3:21:02I don't see who can get to Pat first with things.
3:21:08I think that's when you just got to not worry about it.
3:21:10I ain't worried about it.
3:21:12But I always say, don't, it's kind of alone.
3:21:15And just say it.
3:21:16The Russians won't allow it anymore.
3:21:18Put on the Russians.
3:21:21And have it just right over it.
3:21:24I assumed taking her hairdresser was absolutely good.
3:21:27I insisted, because that we should have.
3:21:29I insisted.
3:21:31OK. That's fine.
3:21:34She incidentally turned out to be damn good.
3:21:36It was very helpful when she didn't have other .
3:22:00I'm confused now.
3:22:16This silly ass is an oppressor.
3:22:39I won't get to call him now for the fact that I am going to this lunch.
3:22:44If you were to call Rogers and say, well, I've been calling a lot, but there ain't none who's still hearing.
3:22:52You know, he'd blow up and smoke up his ass about it.
3:22:54Let me check and see.
3:22:55It'd be good if you do talk to him.
3:22:56He is going to work on that.
3:22:58I know the committee.
3:23:02Well, I'll call him this afternoon.
3:23:03In fact, I'll call him too.
3:23:05I'll call him too.
3:23:07Don't bother calling him.
3:23:08I'm just
3:23:08I will anyway.
3:23:10He deserves it.
3:23:11He's got a hard deal.
3:23:18Well, we should, when he does it right, he ought to get backed up.
3:23:26Because he's damn weak.
3:23:27He's taking a strong position.
3:23:30He'll go back and sit there worrying about it now.
3:23:33Yeah.
3:23:39He looked better.
3:23:40He looked damn good.
3:23:40He will look better than one man.
3:23:43Well, I told him this morning that this was true.
3:23:46I didn't know what was going to happen.
3:23:47It was the military.
3:23:49The only thing he could do was ask the military if he did that.
3:23:52I said, one thing I think I should know is that
3:23:56I don't want you to blockade it.
3:23:58It's a very important option.
3:24:00He was good on that.
3:24:03He ruled out the introduction of ground forces and nuclear weapons.
3:24:07He said, beyond that, this doesn't take whatever steps.
3:24:11As he has said always, you take whatever steps are necessary.
3:24:20I don't think the blockade question came up at a sub, so I don't think he had to answer one way or another.
3:24:29But he did know the other one.
3:24:34This is my last call in the election.
3:24:44It's everybody's last call in the election.
3:24:50What is this?
3:24:51He's not supposed to spend a lot of time in here.
3:24:56Is this all right?
3:24:58No, sir.
3:24:59This is just a hand-shake photograph.
3:25:02He's leading to a grand corporation.
3:25:05Okay.
3:25:05I'd like to give him the money, sir.
3:25:09Is he married?
3:25:35what is mcgregor going up to kakao right he may be there now because he was going over and eating the tongue and then we got the plan to go when i suppose when i get back in the corner yeah
3:26:10Well, I intend to go to California.
3:26:19Yes, sir.
3:26:21Right.
3:26:21Enjoyed it.
3:26:22Say, listen, let's go over here.
3:26:30You think you can handle a think tank now if you're having the OSB?
3:26:33We're going to try and change them.
3:26:34Are you?
3:26:35It needs a little more attention for security and matters like that.
3:26:45Oh, I hear you.
3:26:45Have you been looking around before?
3:26:46Oh, they have a lot to do.
3:26:48A lot of the video trustees went through a search process and looked through a lot of people.
3:26:56Somehow they settled here.
3:27:01I happen to have had a background here with George in the OSB working on non-defense areas.
3:27:08Right.
3:27:09And before that, I've been in the defense department.
3:27:14And so...
3:27:14I can't say that reached across Asia.
3:27:15Right.
3:27:17What do you have to say about that?
3:27:19Well, there is...
3:27:20They're not detected?
3:27:21No.
3:27:22We lived in Monterey for two years.
3:27:23Monterey.
3:27:23Right here.
3:27:24Yeah.
3:27:24Now you lived here in San Juan?
3:27:26San Juan.
3:27:27San Juan.
3:27:27San Juan, yeah.
3:27:28Well, you probably lived in the city of Palisades, probably, around in that area.
3:27:34They don't look good in San Juan.
3:27:36Right?
3:27:36And the question is, they look good in Palisades.
3:27:38Yeah, well, that's that church.
3:27:39That's all the way in the country.
3:27:42My children are going to go to John Russell's church.
3:27:45This is kind of crazy.
3:27:45Right.
3:27:47If you can send them to public schools, there are no problems.
3:27:50All right.
3:28:09You've got money left.
3:28:10That's the best thing we have.
3:28:11It's more expensive than the compensation.
3:28:13You already have compensation.
3:28:14You've got compensation.
3:28:15No, I didn't.
3:28:16I've got things I gave to my dad.
3:28:18Thank you.
3:28:18For your wife, that's a little compact.
3:28:27Thank you.
3:28:28She had to give it to somebody else.
3:28:30Do you have money?
3:28:36I wish you the best out there.
3:28:42It's a great pleasure to be here.
3:29:02Well, the work is important, sure, but you'll be tied into it in that way.
3:29:11Thank you very much.
3:29:12Don't write again, because I'm on ice.
3:29:14No, you want to leave?
3:29:15George didn't want to go back to Chicago.
3:29:17He's done.
3:29:18Yeah, no problem.
3:29:18That's what he is.
3:29:31We've made a peace offer.
3:29:33It may answer the massive invasion of the South.
3:29:40People say that it will jeopardize the summit.
3:29:45We're not saying anything about this topic.
3:29:49We're, of course, in total contact with the Russians.
3:29:54And we're very tough on them.
3:30:00I'm not going to go to the summit.
3:30:03I'm going to get down.
3:30:04So we're going to go further.
3:30:07We may blockade at the end of the week.
3:30:11They only mean by winning in our meeting, not losing.
3:30:14Now, what else can you do?
3:30:16Now, if we're like Johnson, where we have a half a million men out there, and we were protecting the ground, that'd be different.
3:30:22But, George, this is the poor, damn little South Vietnamese who aren't very good fighters, fighting a massive invasion by 15 North Vietnamese divisions, and the United States just can't run out there.
3:30:31What do you think about it?
3:30:34That's a terrible agreement, which is why I thought I was going to say that.
3:30:39Well, we'll get a freedom of paper here.
3:30:40We can't because the paper's loaded and wrong.
3:32:28Yeah, but you tell, oh, is he in the bathroom now?
3:32:31Is the Western Gate the original?
3:32:32Yeah, he said, well, look, is that the more, they left more Russia, they should have left.
3:34:14It would be bad if he took that election off.
3:34:17Yes.
3:34:24No, just tell him that this meeting shouldn't take that long.
3:34:27Let me see.
3:34:32I have a leader at 1230, so I must be providing this before I leave.
3:34:36I understand.
3:39:29Bill has done very well, Mr. President.
3:39:32I've been thinking, but I don't... What's the purpose of your conversation this time?
3:39:44Well, it's to get to Jerry Best's message.
3:39:49Yes.
3:39:52And first to keep the...
3:39:54I'm not finished yet, Mr. President.
3:40:00I don't want you to offer this, even suggest that there's a chance that we might go on this interim idea that an exchange for a... Let me tell you the weakness of that.
3:40:10I've written it out here.
3:40:12The weakness of that, if you hate to report it, is that it sees it tactically in the short run, but does not adequately look at, in my opinion, at the long run, the risks.
3:40:26That short run would be a great gesture that would punish our critics very, very heavily.
3:40:31It would get them to withdraw from my court across the PMC, and we would give up the bombing of North Vietnam, and there would be some reduction in fighting, and we would go back to the common students.
3:40:47All right.
3:40:47The difficulty is that the enemy's capability still to launch significant offensive action
3:40:55which is there, that, you know, no matter how much time you've got, the difficulty is, too, that the pressure on the Russians is enormously lifted as far as this confrontation is concerned.
3:41:07Oh, sure, maybe we'll go to Moscow and create an assault and a lot of other things.
3:41:13But the point that I make is that, having taken the heat that we have already taken for escalation, I think what we have to do is to escalate all the way.
3:41:22Unless, and what I'm saying is that I think the position you're going to have to be in, and Moscow is not the one, of being willing to back down.
3:41:31In other words, let us sell, let us sell, let them sell to us talks for holding the bombing, which is what this really gets down to.
3:41:41After all, they invade, that's true.
3:41:44We bomb, that's true.
3:41:45But when you finally get down to it, we're giving up the bombing, and we go back to talks.
3:41:50And the pressure in the Russians is not going to be very great.
3:41:54And my view is, what I really want to caution you with, Dabrina, it's going to be, it's going to have to be tougher than that Henry.
3:42:00Because right now, the time, you can't let the time flee by.
3:42:04And we have to have the blockade.
3:42:06I don't give a goddamn about the election, but blockade those sons of bitches and start them out.
3:42:11And that's what we're going to do.
3:42:12I'd rather do that than have any talks going on this summer.
3:42:14Talks this summer aren't going to help us.
3:42:18You have to make the statement, Mr. President.
3:42:25First of all, I agree with you that nothing should be said about the interim solution to the Russians now.
3:42:31That should be the result of a stalemate.
3:42:35And I'm not going to make any proposition to the President now.
3:42:39In fact, it should be said in Moscow, if it's said anywhere.
3:42:44But if I may make this suggestion, Mr. President,
3:42:47If we convince the Russians that they are asking something that they cannot with the best will in the world deliver, then we may force them into brutal preemptive action to bring you down this year.
3:42:59That may be their only hope.
3:43:04Well, if they think they can bring you down, I'm just giving you the case for the other side, then all they have to do is endure six months of a blockade.
3:43:14That they can probably do.
3:43:17So, that interim solution has this advantage, Mr. President.
3:43:24First, it will be seen as a clear defeat for them.
3:43:32I know it's temporary.
3:43:34Secondly, it gets us through the Russian summit.
3:43:38After all, the reason you can do this now is because of the China summit.
3:43:42And it's just awfully hard to paint you into the position of a war monk.
3:43:48It gets us through the Russian summit with some notable successes.
3:43:52We can build into the Russian summit a lot of things like a Middle East settlement that we have to deliver next year, which shall be just as reluctant to break next year.
3:44:04Then, Mr. President, after your elections, I'd go
3:44:09all out with the North Vietnamese.
3:44:11No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
3:44:12Part of this deal would have to be
3:44:33a reduction in Soviet deliveries and a guarantee that there would be no offensives this year, all of this year.
3:44:40We are not talking about now.
3:44:41We get that fine.
3:44:42We are talking about the rest of...
3:44:44I don't mind having a little fight out there.
3:44:47No, no.
3:44:48Oh, Mr. President, if we can only get this offensive called off with no promise about July, nor can we accept that goes further.
3:44:56We cannot accept a Hanoi promise either.
3:44:58We have to get a Soviet public assurance
3:45:05Now, then this would also change the negotiating position, because then, I believe, Mr. President, Hanoi would feel that by its own actions, that maybe you'll be brought down, but you cannot be brought down by Hanoi's actions.
3:45:19Therefore, it is probable that you'd be president after November.
3:45:23That having acted this violently, now there's no telling what you will do in November.
3:45:31And... No, their gamble is that they can have the war going on and they'll still have the POWs on the front line.
3:45:39And under those certain chances, the possibility of our surviving the election is very, very low.
3:45:44Do you see my point?
3:45:48I think they're pulled off this attack now.
3:45:51They, particularly if they get ground down, or as they do every day.
3:45:57This deal couldn't happen before May 5th to 10th anyway.
3:46:03in which case much of their offensive would have broken its back anyhow.
3:46:11So I think that for you to do the reason a blockade will work is if you can endure it.
3:46:25If they think they need only to wait six months, they might just stick it out until the end.
3:46:30But this is what worries me.
3:46:32about the blockade, Mr. President.
3:46:34And you remember, I had some leading towards it in 69.
3:46:37You weren't postured well diplomatically to do it in 69.
3:46:42And I strongly support it.
3:46:43You're not doing it.
3:46:48But this is the reason why I think an interim solution in which...
3:46:54But we should throw in the prisoners anyway.
3:47:03Haig has just come back.
3:47:04I was going to come in to see you.
3:47:06I've come with a report from military region one that is extraordinarily optimistic.
3:47:12He says calm, confident, professional.
3:47:16He went around to the divisions and he said, and he says three is still tough, but he thinks every day that passes by may mean that the enemy has shot his wad.
3:47:33It's, again, very quiet today.
3:47:35Are they bombing, or are we bombing enough?
3:47:38That's my point.
3:47:38Mr. President, they're bombing.
3:47:39I mean, the Hague report indicated that poor Abrams had taken all the carrier aircraft up here to support the bombing of the North.
3:47:45Well, God damn it, we've got to get those stories going down somewhere.
3:47:48Is this Hague's report here?
3:47:50I don't know what my idiot spell wrote.
3:47:57No, he didn't.
3:47:59Yeah, let me.
3:48:00It's on the page first.
3:48:01Yeah, I see it.
3:48:04No, that is not true.
3:48:09That is not what this memo said.
3:48:10This is a poor summary.
3:48:12What he said was that one carrier has...
3:48:18But those planes then expand their armaments in the north.
3:48:23And, for example, when they hit in the northern area, that means they didn't hit around Wynn.
3:48:31So...
3:48:32Yesterday, with the strikes going on in the north, they flew more Saudis in all of South Vietnam than they did at the highest point before this offensive started.
3:48:44They flew 500 Saudis in South Vietnam.
3:48:47Now they can get up to 900.
3:48:50And they can go to 900 in the south.
3:48:51And the weather should calm down.
3:48:58Do they know that if there's any movement or, like in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in,
3:49:23Actually, I think, Mr. President, we are on the ground.
3:49:27The situation is better than we could have dreamt two weeks ago.
3:49:33I did not think that the South Vietnamese could withstand an offensive without losing any provincial capital in the first couple of weeks.
3:49:42This is not like Laos.
3:49:43They're not running.
3:49:44There are no newspaper stories of these guys panicking.
3:49:50They are seen to be defending themselves.
3:49:54And I do not think the position is so weak.
3:49:58And I think it must have a shattering impact on the North Vietnamese.
3:50:02It's basically in our interest to keep this offensive going for a while and grind them down.
3:50:07I know.
3:50:09And whether it goes or not, we're going to grind them down.
3:50:15But I frankly believe, Mr. President, that your enormous skill has been that you have been extraordinarily tough, that if you walked up to all the tough ones, but at the same time maintained a peace posture so that they couldn't put you into the positions of just chopping away at you.
3:50:33The reason the people trust you is because they know you've done everything.
3:50:37And therefore, all things considered, I think it is in our interest
3:50:43not to get the Russian summit knocked off as long as we can do it while preserving our essential integrity in Vietnam.
3:50:50That is the major thing.
3:50:52And if this Moscow meeting does not work at all... Or maybe we'll blockade in September, do you mean?
3:51:00No.
3:51:01I would think if the Moscow meeting doesn't work, then I think we should... No, if I mean mine doesn't work, then you might want to go to a blockade.
3:51:10We certainly should keep the positive that you will go to a blockade.
3:51:17I think we've really got their attention.
3:51:19That's for sure.
3:51:23But I...
3:51:31I appreciate what he's worked on in that respect.
3:51:36Isn't it funny to have that little asshole come in here, this Polish ambassador, he'd not be a strong man, but for him to come in here this day, it's funny.
3:51:48They may knock it off, but I don't mind that.
3:51:53The Russians may knock it off, but the Poles, they'll do it only if the Russians do it.
3:51:57I don't think the Russians will right away.
3:52:01I think we got bit up.
3:52:02Yes, sir.
3:52:05I can't tell.
3:52:05I'm too afraid to talk about knock-off now.
3:52:09Better not.
3:52:11Because if you get any deal with this, remember, I'll move first.
3:52:14But, Mr. President, for me to be deceived in Moscow, please tell me.
3:52:19I agree.
3:52:20I mean, I thought it was unbelievable.
3:52:22Well, of course, some of the papers this morning were saying that the Russian leaders were out of town for the weekend, and that's why they didn't react to the bombing.
3:52:30They don't.
3:52:31We got the expression of message.
3:52:33They just don't know anything.
3:52:35In our papers.
3:52:36Thank God.
3:52:37And they'll not see me.
3:52:38Right.
3:52:39You can get a second round now.
3:52:51He's finished his search for me.
3:53:02Would you like McGregor to ride up with you until he needs to ride back?
3:53:06Well, I'll take McGregor.
3:53:18All right, sir.
3:53:22I'll decide what I do on the way back.

Nixon alone in the Oval Office on Vietnam War and Easter Offensive

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on April 17, 1972

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