Conversation 709-003

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Thank you.

Okay.

We have another table from May.

It says, obviously the fat is on the fire at Yuan.

We will need the coolest of nerve from here on.

And from my perspective, it is essential that we continue to play our hand with the utmost calm and confidence.

As you know, several occasions in the past have involved similar risk-taking, although there has been less opportunity for events to be influenced by it.

of uncertainty in the domestic scene.

On balance, the military situation here is now well under control.

As I reported yesterday, in the near term, the enemy will only suffer severe setbacks, and then the rest is all technical stuff.

And we discussed with Abrams this idea of a troop withdrawal of 20,000, of an announcement which would get us down to five actualizers, which would get us down to

Maybe we could say we've withdrawn 500,000 troops.

And he thinks it can be done, but he wants to let me know tomorrow.

And Dad, I would recommend you now get your press conference.

Do you have one next week?

Yeah, yeah, no, we don't.

Now, last night after you had retired, the premium came in with the Russian message, which he said since they don't want to say too much publicly, but rather...

tough, it doesn't have any concrete things, but after five pages of tough talk, which is standard tough talk, he said, they've transmitted our considerations to Hanoi and will give us a reply as soon as, which is amazing, because in the past they always took the position that they were.

My recommendation is that we say to this, there will be no answer.

They know what our policy is, and we are just going to pursue it.

And if that's going to be their attitude, I can tell them now nothing will come out of the discussion.

I think it puts us domestically

the reasons you have for deciding to go.

I don't agree that it's two for them and one for us.

It's two for us and almost nothing for them.

And what do they get out of it?

They receive me three days after we bomb Hanoi and I bomb.

In any event, as far as the reading game comes in, the premieres are still on.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, they didn't do anything.

It's just...

What I think they did, Mr. President, is to send this first part to Hanoi to say, to show, because publicly they've been rather mild.

The CIA, as I say, Chinese have been mild.

I thought Joe Biden was too bad.

Very mild.

Now, one thought that we have, I hope Ralph just goes in there determined and tough.

This is the one...

I don't know what we could do.

I don't know whether you want to give him a call.

I had him talk to me last night, but only very briefly.

I assumed everything.

He said he'd gotten all the information.

We're about 7.30, and apparently you talked to him.

Yes.

And...

Secretary Rogers, please.

I think it'd be tough and determined.

Now, today, the North Vietnamese announced that they were prepared to send deductible back to Paris to resume plenary sessions.

If we resume plenary sessions.

And, however, the requirement is that the bombing starts.

Well, that's the very thing Porter predicted.

I think the only thing new I see this morning is this...

or silly suggestion, then our people may say they'll suddenly have to go back to Paris to resume discussions, if the bombing stops.

Well, of course, that is not the bombing that they would ever see.

But one point I did want to say on the curtain is that it would be a play in a way that would keep them guessing.

Obviously, I don't know whether any of these members of the committee will

so that we'll have noted the very potential movement of naval ships.

Having noted it, they might ask you about a blockade.

If they do, I would leave it variable, because it is something that

we may have to move to quite soon.

And so I just say, well, I just, you know what I mean?

It's a military decision, and we wish necessary.

So that's the one thing.

And I wouldn't want, in other words, you to get in a position where we had to go, but look as if we had backed down from something you said.

Oh, well, that should be ruled out.

That has been done here, but you can say, well, as Mr. Ziegler said, and I have too a number of cases of nuclear weapons are neither necessary nor advisable in this part of the world, but we will do what is necessary against military targets to stop the killing of North Vietnamese and Americans in the South and South Indians in the South.

That's sort of the cliche I get.

That's why we're not going to, we're not going to reintroduce, we're not going to ask for, like, grounding.

Because, and I put that very positively, let's say that the South Vietnamese now are trained and are undertaking the ground fighting.

They're fighting very courageously.

They're doing very well.

Also, I think you might point out that in that respect, if you would,

The fact that if they say, well, it's the air thing going on here, and I look here, of course, it will stop the moment we get this thing over.

But the South Vietnamese are fighting half of the tactical airport.

I'm sorry, since I told you.

I sent that figure over to you.

Yeah.

We have replied.

Yeah.

It was clear this morning.

Yeah.

I've been in here some time.

We may get into the Soviet protest.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

No, that's right.

But we've already replied.

We've already replied.

Incidentally, both the Soviet and the Chinese protests are just looking at the CIA analysis.

They're just routine stuff.

I mean, they don't say they're going to send in forces and all that sort of thing.

Well, the most important thing is to have in mind the fact that

uh they will ask you about some and i think you're just you sail there well we have no we're going forward with our plan we uh we're good because uh they it's it's a we should see you'll see i don't know there is nothing happened from my opinion because they've got an efficient product except that we might have to cancel it that's the problem

But that's not their problem.

Well, good luck.

You'll have a good one.

I think that the stronger position you can take, I mean, not the literature, but you know, just, but in any fact, I think that's the point.

It's that, well, we're doing what we can.

Also, I think it's, I think as I told you, I talked to

really great that I mentioned that to you.

Well, he called me yesterday and he had talked to the chancellor of the University of North Carolina, you know, I live with those people.

The chancellor had said, you know, I wish you'd tell the president you're talking

I think we're going to have some student problems, but it's not like before, he said, because this one is not an invasion of another country.

Second, he said, and he made the two points that we made, he said, our students now, even those that are not for the president,

to believe he's really tried.

He's withdrawn 500,000 people.

He's gone with China.

He's gone to the Soviet Union.

He's made an offer.

You know, he's privately and publicly.

And then for them to offer this with stepping up the fighting, then what else can we do?

Sort of that sort of thing.

Yeah.

Well, how did you read it?

I just saw the paper this morning.

I haven't read the ground things.

It looked like it's holding on.

Well, let me say it.

I'd be sure to let the boys know that it

Of course, we've got plenty of bombing stuff out there now, and Abrams is going to use it right up to the hill in the battle area from now on.

All military targets, and it is the God's truth that they're not limiting people.

You see what I mean?

Sometimes you can get that somewhat more subtle way.

Beautiful.

You can get the blockade.

You've got to be tough or you'll look like a horse.

You've got to blockade because, you know, that's illegal.

You don't want to be illegal.

You're in a war.

Huh?

You understand?

Oh, yeah.

I think it's beautiful.

Mr. Bender, I think...

But it's quite true.

I say I don't like the blockade.

Don't you think I'm just guessing about it?

I'm totally committed to blockade at the end of this week.

You've done.

Well, we have to wait till I get back from Moscow.

That's the end of this week.

No, I'll be back Sunday night.

That's the end of this week.

Oh, right.

I mean, as soon as you get back from Moscow, if that's a hard line, Richard, and to blockade him.

Mr. President, I think what you've always done, what you said you would do, and I...

have every, no, I think that's what you will do, and I think that's what you should do.

You see, if you, when you really carry out an energy error to the extreme, your analysis, that you can't have the North Vietnamese destroy two presidents, then that, it isn't really quite on all fours, because Johnson destroyed himself, and in my case, I do not do it that way, and I would do it for, frankly, the good of the country.

Nevertheless.

No, but that is for the good of the country.

That's why I'm saying it, Mr. President, with all my loyalty.

I think we cannot have these little, little things that destroy confidence in our government.

Well, anyway, I'm going to tell you this.

If I can mention a country, see, let me be quite clear.

Kennedy, even leading a nation that was infinitely stronger than any potential enemy, was unable to conduct a very successful foreign policy because he lacked iron nerves and lacked good advisors.

Johnson was in the same position for other reasons because he didn't have any experience.

because of the, what's happening here in the rest, I mean, that there is a very good chance, and it doesn't bother me one damn bit, I'm a personal senator, there's a very good chance that sitting in this chair could be somebody else.

It could be a Muskie, it could be a Humphrey, it could be a Teddy, one of those three on the Democratic side.

On the Republican side,

It won't be that he could have raped anybody.

Rockefeller probably didn't get the nomination.

I don't know who they would nominate.

But nevertheless, it could be.

But here's the point.

I know that I have to leave this office in a position as strong as I possibly can, because whoever succeeds me, either because of lack of experience or because of lack of character, guts,

having a weaker united states would surrender the whole thing you understand i know that is why that is why what i have to do i have to do it not only to assure that if i'm here we can conduct a suggestive foreign policy i have to do it and this is even more important so that some four weeks on the bench sitting here with the best intentions to conduct

It'll be hard enough to put him in his chair.

It'll be hard enough for him to conduct a foreign policy in the United States that's not the hell of a subject.

It'll be very hard because he's a jibbering idiot at times.

Well-intentioned, but jibbering.

Must he?

Let's prove that he has no character.

And Teddy is, well, an unbelievable one.

It's up and down.

Well, now what the hell can you do?

So you cannot leave, you just can't leave the thing.

Now, under these circumstances, as I've often said, it may be that I'm the last person in this office for some time until somebody else is developed along the same lines.

I mean, it was tough, and experienced.

who will be able to conduct strong, responsible foreign policy.

So that will happen.

We're going to do it.

And that means, that means take every risk, lose every election.

That's what I'm going to do.

Now, people say, oh, well, if you win, you're going to lose your right.

I'm not sure.

But the main point is, we have no choice, you see.

Foreign policy in the United States will not be viable if we're run out of Vietnam.

That's all there is to it.

That is exactly my point.

Selfish, short-sighted, personal point of view.

Your incentive is not to do it.

And my incentive is, I have let it sink.

All these great foreign policy initiatives were shown, too.

Exactly.

And if one were concerned about public position, one would say, one could remain... Generation fees, all that stuff.

Although, Mr. President, I must say one thing.

You're taking less heat this week than you would if we waited for.

The first week, the worst heat we took, it began to build up, was...

when all these little pipsqueaks were saying Vietnamization was a failure, and the fact is, South Vietnamese have healthy guys, and they couldn't have healthy guys.

I ask one question.

We should not make, and I hope you had somebody tell our staff this, we should not make, let me put it this way,

Don't set up any Burgundians out there.

That's what the goddamn French did.

The war went on too long because of Burgundians.

And also the Germans made a mistake, too.

The point of, you don't set up any Burgundians.

And the way it's now created, the Burgundians, Locke's goddamn here at Burgundians.

It doesn't make any difference where Amlock goes.

Who would make a difference, Mr. President?

Amlock, doesn't it?

Let's not say it.

The way it goes.

That was a great mistake.

Whoever sent this to the New York Times fellow, that was a very, very wrong thing to do.

It was a great mistake to talk to the New York Times fellow.

I agree.

The New York Times, incidentally, has a very rather pleasant article about you this week.

What?

In life, of how you're handling the crisis.

And, uh... What's his law?

Well, that you're calm and, uh... You have no reason to know.

That you, uh...

In fact, he got something that I gave to Cherry Schecter when you had said to me, when I had said to you, it now will go one way or the other, and you had said it now, it will only go one way.

I had told this Schecter last week when I saw him in Florida.

He apparently, he didn't use it in his story, so he decided he must have read it.

What I want you to do with time, if you will, is to play Schecter.

Absolutely.

He's a nice little dog, and he's smart, and he's very pleasant.

See my friend?

I don't know who to blame at the Times, except some people.

Maybe Frankel.

Frankel is a... Now, listen, Frankel, you want to remember this, too.

And it's true.

Now, God damn it.

Mrs. Mayer knows this.

I think you ought to tell Ruby.

You've heard the President say it.

I want you to give Ruby a hand and say you've heard the President say it.

To the leaders, he said it a dozen times at once.

And I always start with Israel, and then I go to the deal.

But I say, if the United States fails Vietnam, if a Soviet-supported invasion succeeds there, it will inevitably be next tried in the Middle East, and the United States will not stand there either.

That's what's on the line.

And they should know that, and I think we ought to get some of our Israeli friends to start supporting us.

I think so.

I'll call Rafin.

Now, to go through immediate tactical issues, do you agree, Mr. President, that I call in Dobrynin and say there's not going to be any reply to this?

The President is determined.

You know his course.

There's no sense in gazing in rhetoric.

And we will not reply to this, and I must tell you informally, if this is what you're going to say to him in Moscow, my trip is going to be a waste of time.

because we will not be able to make progress.

It's just the usual thing, which has gotten longer.

Oh, yeah.

They have to do it, Mr. President.

And just say it.

Just say it.

We did it.

Why don't you do it more like I talked to Joe and I?

Look, the president read this and rather smiled.

Look, he smiled and said, well, that's, he said, they have to say this.

And then he turned cold and said it.

There will be no reply to this.

If the Russians want to talk this out, fine.

If they want to talk this way, there's going to be a sign.

I'd be very proud.

Because I'd very much like to see Johann Strauss.

I like the old part.

I should think that's the way we play it.

Absolutely.

So that's the reason he's actually a player.

Oh, to bring in.

When he said, I'll bring you this, you'd understand we have to do this in confidential channels, because we're not saying much in public channels.

Well, Bill asked me whether or not we had responded to the Russian.

He had sent over a cable for clearance.

And I held it last night because it was just too anxious saying you had retired, which was true.

And that you would clear it in the morning, and what you said was yes.

I mean, what you said was exactly right.

You cleared it in the morning, this morning.

Let me take you on your trip.

I realize it's not true for them and not for us.

In terms of cosmetics.

It may be true for them, one, for us and other charmers, but nevertheless, it's basically because looking at their big game, the China game, what they want is Henry Kissinger in Moscow because he went to China.

Oh, yeah.

I see.

That's what's in it for that man.

You've got to realize, you don't understand what the hell we're giving those sons of bitches.

Now, the other point I make, Henry, is however,

We're doing it for our own reasons.

Our own reasons are, you're going to go, and then we'll blow it.

And I'll blow it.

I almost said maybe the day you come back, I might blow it in the press conference.

I knew about the press conferences.

I wonder if that would really take the sons of bitches right off the whim of the press conference I'm announcing today with a further withdrawal of Americans and so on and so on.

In the meantime, we're going to continue this.

I might make a brief four or five minute statement about Vietnam and then let the bastards

I think, Mr. President, you may want to consider either going on television for five minutes announcing I've been there.

It will throw your Democratic opponents into a cocktail.

They won't even know what to do with it.

and particularly if they produce a North Vietnamese in Moscow.

Listen, if they produce anything, if I announce that you've been to Moscow discussing this, what the hell are they going to do then?

That's right.

And so... Let me tell you, I am convinced, though, that, well, we'll talk about this,

briefly, I will go to Camp David Thursday night.

I'll be there, and you will be at Camp David, and nobody's going to know that you aren't there.

You understand that?

Could you stay into Monday?

I'm going to stay right through Sunday and Monday, right?

Good.

I'll stay there, and I'll come down.

I'll come down on Monday to Camp David and see what I find.

What do you mean?

I'll stay through Monday.

I'll stay all day Monday.

Well, one thing we could do is, Mr. President, is that when I arrive in Andrews,

I come right up to Camp David and fly back with you.

Good.

Monday?

I'll come back if there's a meeting in Paris.

I come back Monday night.

If there's no meeting in Paris, I come back Sunday night.

Fine.

Okay, good.

I'll stay through Monday if there's a meeting in Paris.

And then I'll come up and come back with you.

That's right.

And we've covered it totally.

But we may not want to cover it totally.

Well, you should be the one that closes, rather than...

The point is that we should have a meeting here, exactly.

You will not be ready until Wednesday morning to discuss what you're going to say in Moscow.

Well, I have my people actually.

I have to meet with them now to go over.

Wednesday morning, right.

Wednesday morning or Wednesday afternoon?

Wednesday morning is fine.

No, Wednesday morning gives me a chance to redo whatever is suggested.

Wednesday morning was the downpour of things.

Now, it may be in Camp David, it may be here.

But one slight advantage of doing it here, Mr. President, is that I'm going to be away on Thursday anyway.

With the argument that I'm in Camp David with you, it might be a little better, but either way we can do it.

Well, I'll be here.

We'll meet here.

I think that with the Russians...

There's one weakness in our game plan, and what's that like?

We haven't got a goddamn thing we can do this week.

No, no.

First of all, we are holding in the South, Mr. President.

Are you saying we are holding?

Oh, yes.

And that's the burden for them.

And that's where each other are, you know, holding.

I don't know.

I think it's...

I think it isn't temporary.

But secondly, we are bombing the southern part of North Vietnam intensively.

Is there any bombing that you could do?

Can you even pattern this week so that it looks like it's a different kind of strike?

Because that's something that'd be done if we have another B-3 type strike, just so it's a...

In the south or in the north?

In the south.

Oh, in the southeast.

Yeah.

I would like, I think what I meant is I want something that can be described as a massive different kind of a strike.

Is there any place where you think we could do it?

I'll get a message right on it.

put it this way, that this week, you see what I mean?

I don't want you to go over there.

Well, very frankly, people won't know you're there.

I don't want the people here to get the impression.

You see what we're up against.

But next week, they'll know why you did it.

I know, but this week, they'll be right.

Because of Russian and Chinese protests, the United States is going to do it again.

See my point?

We can't be in that position.

We can ride a week of it again.

We can ride a week of it.

If they accuse you of being both too tough and too soft at the same time, and then next week, I think if we can avoid, I mean, we've really put it brutally to them.

We haven't shown any softness, and they know.

I mean, they know you now, Mr. President.

They know when I come back without anything to show for it, we're going to blow the lid off, particularly having proof that we've made every effort.

Now, the last thing you should consider when you're preparing your Wednesday dinner.

You see, the deep down decision you've got to make is whether you want to conduct a Moscow talk in a way that will enable us to have a Moscow song, or in a way that will make it leave us no choice but to blockade

and push the summit.

Now, there's one point that's very important.

If the summit is canceled, I want to cancel it.

I don't want that.

That's what I would like to say.

What I would like to say, Mr. President, is that I think we should conduct the summit part of the talks in a very conciliatory and forthcoming manner in such a way that they get a maximum pending after

After the summit.

On the Vietnam thing, on the other hand, we should be tough as nails.

Because a middle position, we will not impress these guys with conciliatoriness.

They were not passing messages while Johnson was drooling all over them.

So I think we should do both simultaneously.

On Vietnam, we should be very tough.

What I'm playing with now... What do we get out?

What do we get out?

What do we...

Sorry.

Well, what I think, if we are... We certainly are going to have a ceasefire while we're in Moscow.

That's my point.

Oh, one outcome, Mr. President, that I think we might get is to say, to offer to the Russians, we'll go back to the conditions of May, of March 29th.

That is to say, the North Vietnamese withdraw the three divisions they put across the DMZ, north of the DMZ.

Uh...

They scaled down their military actions to the levels they were on March 29th.

This is guaranteed by the Soviets.

We, in turn, stopped the bombing of the North and we resumed plenary sessions in Paris.

That would be a damn good deal, Mr. President.

That would be such a defeat for the North Vietnamese if they had to stop their offensive.

And it makes us look damn good in domestic opinion.

You can draw across the DMC, those horses across the DMC, and we'll stop the bombing of the North.

Because we will have had...

They have to scale down the military.

We will have had to deal with the lack of the North at that time.

Well, I hope, I trust, though, that means that Abrams has got a shellac that north right now, right over out there.

You've done it, have you?

You've got enough horses there, you see?

Mr. President.

Is there any more horses we can send out there?

Is there anything left?

We've got horses left.

We've got no airfields to put them on.

But, Mr. President, it is the question.

We are now...

When this thing started, their maximum number of soldiers, I keep saying the same thing, was 367.

Now it's 900.

Good.

When this thing started, the B-52 soldiers were 36 a day.

They are now at 78.

When this thing started, there were four destroyers out there.

By the end of this week, there'll be 38.

38?

How many cruisers?

Four.

And there were what?

How many were there before?

None.

There was a cruiser in the Pacific?

Let me give you some of the farm damage.

It's really unbelievable.

Let me just run through it quickly because I've already given you the one large secondary explosion that was seen 110 miles away.

Eight large P.O.L.

tanks destroyed, and I've seen the picture.

You said it was all done by a little destroyer, Captain.

Yeah, from you.

Eight large P.O.L.

tanks destroyed, six large P.O.L.

tanks burning.

They showed me pictures taken in High Farm yesterday where there was so much smoke you couldn't see anything.

Six P.O.L.

tanks, five cylinder-shaped tanks burning, eight buildings destroyed, three rail cuts, each 15 feet long.

Five railroad P.O.L.

cars derailed.

Four railroad P.O.L.

tank cars destroyed.

Ten railroad P.O.L.

tank cars burning.

This is in Haiphong.

In the Haiphong open storage area, two large sustained fires.

In the Hanoi P.O.L., target 75% destroyed.

Base of column, smoke column 1.4 miles wide.

Railroad tracks north of target completely cut.

flames up to 10,000 feet.

Haiphong warehouse, six large secondary explosions, six large buildings completely destroyed, five large buildings heavily damaged, one barge sunk.

Haiphong warehouse number four, 14 buildings completely destroyed, 15 severely damaged, five burning, extensive cratering.

Haiphong naval base, four buildings damaged, one building burning,

One, something rather destroyed.

Haiphong shit yard.

Ten very large secondary explosions.

Haiphong warehouse north-east.

Eight large buildings completely destroyed.

Six damaged.

This goes on and on and on.

Disagreement.

We don't know whether we got the thing in the front part yet.

That they have to photograph today with an SR-71.

I'll go to my meeting, Mr. President.

Incidentally, Shakespeare has withdrawn his resignation after I talked to him.

Good.

Do you really feel it's going well in Antioch or better?

Yes.

What's why?

Nineteen of twenty-one tanks to the target.

I know.

Press it, sir.

There must be some.

They have cleared the whole town now.

There are no more Vietnamese in the town.

And now they're trying to slip around on both sides.

They're going to launch another big attack.

But each succeeding attack is going to be a little weaker than the preceding one.

What about the Kuwait?

The Kuwait area, there is no major attack.

In the Kuwait area, they're coping.

Kuwait is like B3.

They try to get an attack started, but they never get organized.

In the Kwantri area, the South Vietnamese are moving out, but frankly, they're no good on the offensive.

All those tanks we sent were useless.

Oh, no, that's not true.

They had tanks.

They did knock out a lot of tanks up there.

With our tanks, yeah.

The strong conviction here is that Irvin's going to say no.

If he says no, McGregor will then immediately call him.

And so I just want to confirm my understanding of the meeting you had with Senator Bannon as to whether I should pursue this any further or not.

It's my understanding that you declined this suggestion, and I want to confirm that that's correct and unequivocal, and the Senator will say yes.

Then we put the whole claim against public bullying into motion.

That's the easy part.

exercise or that's urban actually maybe that's the likely result and that's the uh if it's if that's what happens we can move on now yeah but the problem the likelihood or another possibility which carpools is not likely it seems to me it would be a bourbon smart enough because urban is bonding on this so he may not be smart enough he may say you know that's an interesting idea i'll think it over and we'll talk about it on thursday and then what are we going

We didn't have to worry about that until 10 o'clock.

They sent people to find out what happened.

Then why don't we just wait a minute?

I think we just got there.

We were going through all these things.

And we finally decided at the same time that we could bring about 37 options.

And they all are in an hour.

So we better just sit and wait an hour.

The problem is we're all here to move fast.

The difficulty is you don't believe, I go over again, that you can flush it.

without this urban thing.

Do you see what I mean?

Yeah, it's awful hard to.

Well, I wonder.

Could you have long stayed in the rest?

I don't know.

I guess not.

Buddy, I'm sorry people would buy that.

Mitchell won't, because Mitchell strongly believes that there is a possibility that the Lundys can get confirmed.

McGregor's view is that there's been a clear political decision made that has something to do with Kleindienst.

In fact, it's probably, in some people's minds, very unfortunate that it is Kleindienst, because they like him.

But liking Kleindienst doesn't stand in the way of trying to win an election.

And there's an interesting article in the Post this morning that comes up with the obvious conclusion, which is that Democrats are going to play this, and then

They're going to turn to their campaign team, which is, we will appoint an attorney general who can be confirmed by the United States Senate.

And by that time, we'll have Mr. Weinberger out there, right?

Well, yeah, if that's a jewel.

I don't know.

You're sure to sell a risk?

What?

What was the risk on anybody?

They won't take anybody out.

Well, they might not.

You can find problems with anyone.

You can make him up.

It'll hardly be him.

I think he'd be very unusual and fragile.

What do you think?

I would think so.

And I don't think their idea of going to the Lewis Powell type is...

Okay, no.

You can't take the chance of putting a string on him.

Unless you've got somebody that you know is doable.

Nobody's suggesting that.

And I don't think Bill Smith answers it.

Oh, because I don't think he's the towering figure.

The difficulty with Bill Smith is they talk about his clients.

which gives us an impression that everybody that invests in industry is oil.

Well, you can be damn sure they have an IT&T subsidiary.

Oh, Senator.

It's inevitable that they do.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

You've got to be a poor man.

I'm talking.

Smith would be a good attorney general, but... Also, he's a good man.

Smith is no tolerant figure.

I mean, she is a Phi Beta Kappa or whatever.

A nice fall.

According to her, it was the name of Duke.

Yeah.

Now that type, the deed-to-do type, you might, you might ask her, but how solid is he?

That's how you know.

Solid is the main thing.

Yeah, but people would tell you, Charlie, I'm a solid fellow too.

Would you like Charlie to turn you down?

He's your close personal friend, great campaign supporter.

Well, anyway, I'm not worried about the post editorial about that.

That's not, I mean, their story.

That's right, sir.

It is, sir, where they have picked up the whole scenario and figured it out.

Well, we'll wait for that one until the end.

I just want to, we've got another option.

Give me a, do this for me.

I want you to just, over these next two weeks until we get past this Vietnam thing, to cover the news things, you know, as we did during Cambodia-Laos thing.

Is there anything in the news that I should know about today?

I've read the paper.

I mean, I don't have the time.

I wish I would do that every day, but I'm not going to be able to do summaries.

due to the fact that it's just a rehash of it.

Vietnam is the big story beyond that.

I don't need to tell anybody about Vietnam.

I don't know about it.

But is there anything else coming, like any other stories that I need to know about at the present time?

If you see coming on, anything on the San Diego Convention, for example, or anything on any of our other people?

It's all in somebody else's hands, sir.

I'm just trying to think.

There's nothing that comes to my mind, and I'll take a quick look, just to be sure.

Every morning, you would?

Not left anything out of that.

You take a quick look at the new summary and say, look, there's about four items in the summary.

It's just probably a little odd, but it might raise.

Yeah.

This is much better if I keep clear of it.

But I would count on you in a hurry when...

And Colson, between, you know, we go with the hammering.

Despite the IGG, the Colson's crowd is able to, they are going to undertake the defense of the president line this week.

They're willing to do that.

Oh, yeah.

Do they have enough horses to do that?

Yeah, well, sure.

And it's...

different people, I guess, if you want.

ITT isn't that much of a thing for them now.

I was going to ask the point that was made.

And you got it.

You got it already.

It was still appointed on Bussing, his project, as a young man.

And he's aiming on, you know, some, getting his other things in motion, too.

John's taking over the...

It is really the best thing we've done for some time.

It was a good move.

Captain, one captain.

Not really one captain.

i don't think you do and then to be perfectly comfortable with the vietnam thing i don't think you want to call me if you call the company they're going to they're going to make a thing about the president's son on the captain in the emergency session that's what makes you want that but it doesn't seem to be a business problem

that it also turns out to be the best cover for Henry.

I definitely will go to Camp David Thursday night.

I can stay through Sunday for sure.

I may stay through Monday, and therefore Monday must be cleared.

What do we have Monday?

I have nothing.

The reason being, that is, if there is a meeting in Paris, I have to be away at that period of time.

Now, for the purposes of the press, Kissinger is there with me.

He's here with me.

We'll just, uh, he goes up, in other words, it could be, uh, we'll have Kissinger enter and say he's meeting with, uh, this one, and Tyler, and three, and three, you understand?

And, uh, Ron doesn't need that.

Let me, let me say, Ron isn't there, he's just guessing, see?

That's the way it's gonna be, though.

We're going to have a perfect color that way.

We see that you cannot do that if he was seen.

But you can do it if you can't leave it, because the camera's closed.

There ain't nobody.

Nobody comes in or out.

So when does Hay get back?

Once we have him come up.

The whole point is, I've got to say that Kissinger is there, because he's going to be the hell out of town.

Yeah.

But you could also, it would, when Haig comes back, he's got to report to Kissinger, and you, and I think Haig's got to, you shoot Haig up on the face of honor, report him to you, and that's it.

Excellent idea.

Excellent.

Haig can't come back and not see Henry.

No.

Well, then Haig, Haig will, Haig will come, he's got to report him to the president, and so forth.

I guess I'm sure about this.

Excellent idea.

There she is.

What is that?

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.

There she is.

Here, here.

That's right.

He will have already reported to you.

Except that, forget that.

That's right.

Wednesday night.

But wait a minute.

It's a nice part of the picture.

Is he still up to you Wednesday night?

Yes, sir.

That's all right.

There's no problem.

If he goes to a party, nobody's going to notice her for one day at any event.

Nobody knows who goes through if you can't make it.

You get sent out of the car and so forth and so on.

You'll have to.

I'll have to.

Can't go home.

So you go out right after the reception?

I go out right after the reception.

Good.

There's still, on a tentative basis, at least thinking of a press conference next week.

There's always a talk next week.

We're always thinking of that.

We haven't heard it very well, but that's, that I think will give good time.

Because we will have a true withdrawal announcement of some sort next week, in any event, if we don't do that with this announcement.

Would you tell Ron or whoever goes to the Capitol today that he should be staying fairly close to keep the idiot reporters' mics out of my face, you know?

Yeah.

I don't want to, I mean, I'm not concerned about it, except I just don't want to be blocked in a way that I have to respond.

Yeah.

Getting up or something.

Maybe they can find some other anchors or something.

I don't know.

I guess there isn't any way.

They can block some of the bridges off a few little, you see what I'm talking about?

They get down here and put some blocks a little away so that they are right on the... Well, I'll be playing each thing.

Fire ahead.

He does about 70%, but he still has that 30% that he thinks may go the other way.

Obviously if it would, we'd be better off.

A couple minor things.

I talked to Connie Stewart this morning about the panda picture.

And Mrs. Nixon apparently insists on doing it tomorrow afternoon.

I told Connie that I'm totally against that and will continue to fight not to have

that take place tomorrow.

We have a table tennis team here tomorrow, and so you get two tennis stories in one day and blow them both.

Well, maybe she doesn't know that.

Well, I've made the point.

I'll continue to make the point, but I've only talked to her.

To Mrs. Nixon?

Yeah.

No, I've talked to Connie.

But they call her Mrs. Connie.

Connie.

I'll call her Mrs. Nixon.

Just call her and tell her that I asked you to call me because the table tennis team is here in this school.

You'll have the two of us are meeting each other.

Why are you monitoring the day?

No, no, I went to Wednesday or Thursday, but Mrs. Nixon's out of town Wednesday, and I'm okay for Thursday.

I'm not concerned about this post story today about secrecy and so forth.

That's good.

Oh, it's fine.

Why didn't you read the bucket paper?

Well, believe me, I really get excited when everybody comes in.

I don't care what they write.

That story works to our advantage for this reason, and you can play it this way.

The musk oxen in China are sick.

They are, it's true.

Are their hairs falling off?

That's right.

Why?

Because they aren't being, we can't say they aren't being properly taken care of, but you can make the point the other way, that the zoo and people here are taking every precaution to make sure the pandas get the proper treatment and they will not be exposed to the public.

Or even we don't even care about the fact that the AP runs a story saying that they're keeping them secret and we're not allowing pictures.

The answer is that's right.

It's more important that the campus health be preserved.

Whenever the zoo gives the approval, they will.

You better talk to that cat, Reed, at the zoo, and be sure you got him.

Just tell him, you know, that we don't want these.

We want them to wait until they're perfectly acclimated before us pictures are taken.

Use that in turn.

That's my review of the fact that most hospitals are sick.

But what's her problem?

She'll be away Wednesday.

Why can't she do it today?

They might be.

I'd say it's a bad day.

Let me work it out.

Of course, they're a big story tonight, too.

They're in Washington today.

And now, I don't know if it makes any difference.

They play out of Bethesda High School today, and they play at Kogar.

Isn't that going to be a lot of a picture?

Why don't we just do the panda thing tomorrow, then?

No, no, no.

Here's my view of the table tennis.

Look, we've been looking for ways to reopen the China Visit thing, and these are the two best shots we've got.

It's the ping pong and the pandas.

We're on the right course here.

I'll just stop and listen.

One of the two.

Call her directly, and you can get her.

You just call her and say that you're in it, and then you say that

And it's your idea that it would be very bold, and because the table tennis team will be the story tomorrow, and they can't.

And it will be a major story.

And we just have to celebrate it.

Now, when do you want to run a man's story?

Thursday.

She can't do it Wednesday.

If she could do it Wednesday, that would be fine.

But I understand she's got a ton of Wednesdays.

What are you going to do with it?

That'd be some.

The problem doesn't show.

You know what the problem is.

That's .

OK. We've got a lot on ourselves.

Now, on the Polish ambassador report coming in at 10.30, the question comes up, do we want to have a picture with the Polish ambassador in light of everything else?

Have you talked to him?

I haven't been able to get to Henry this morning.

Let me do this, but don't tell him a thing.

I'll get Henry in just before I see the Polish ambassador talking to me about it.

All right.

I'll just do all the English to him quickly.

Okay, fine.

One argument for it is it makes a positive story on the Russian trip going ahead as planned.

It does.

That, together with the advanced people.

But I want to get this deal as to whether or not we want that buzz.

For any reason, we don't want it.

I'll wait for your comments.

I will.

I'll raise it, Henry.

And if you get a buzz, that means we have it.

We don't.

There's what there is.

Which, of course, you wouldn't think there's anybody who would think about it.

I got to be sure about it.

It's a Polish thing.

Nailed it.

Yeah, I don't want to have the son of a bitch come in and have a picture and say, well, my government now says I'm not going to go.

Yeah, you probably understand that to knock off any trips, I want to knock them off.

I don't want somebody else knocking them off.

So everybody that wants to grab some story, who wouldn't have thought of a positive story?

I thought of that a month ago as whoever happens to be the Polish ambassador.

That isn't the fight.

The fight is, see what I mean?

The fight is whether this is something we can handle.

Well, we'll wait until you get the word.

We'll get to it.

There's an inordinate risk of it to the ground.

Contrary to what you mean, by the way.

That's right.

But your whole line, Iran on the sun, everything else should be positive.

Right.

No Russian.

protests in our area.

We expect that.

And we expect the Chinese protests, we expect that to be part of it.

On the other hand, we are seeking good relations with our ally, with the Soviet and Chinese, recognizing that there will be some areas of the world where we will have very fundamental and profound disagreements.

This is one of those areas.

We can have them in the past, we can have them in the future.

You're sleeping right there.

Say nothing anymore.

Now, I think we've got Rockets pretty well positioned today.

We've got a tough line.

You're supposed to press it and say anything.

It's kind of a consolary.

But your old line should be, the most important thing is any man.

Any man.

Don't call him a thing.

You know what I mean?

That's it.

In other words, if they say, well, how about the limits of bombing and the rest?

Are there going to be another strike like this?

What about this and this and that?

That's a military situation.

I'm not going to comment.

I just, I don't want anything, anything.

The Lakers said, out of here, I don't want anything controversial, but I said, out of here.

I mean, there was some story in the New York Times and shit.

I don't know why, but most of the things that were stirred up by any of the White House staff, at least some of them, were terribly dumb.

I'm talking about this son of Ed Sheeran Smith, who's a lousy little bastard.

Anyway, I've known him for years.

When he put out a story about Kuwaiti walls, that's a terrible thing.

You see what you do with that?

The great mistake that was made with the French, and the Germans, of course, fell for the mistake, and so it was.

What if it was to cost the French two million and the Germans a million and a half men?

It was redundant.

I think the Senate would fight it to the goddamn rock.

Now, the minute that you have any jackass in White House staff with the best intentions going out and talking to one of his friends in the New York Times, first he should have talked to anybody.

but I've given orders that that's the case.

The only man on the Earth I know should be talked to.

But I know this is probably some well-intentioned guy burbling around in his cuffs.

But my point is this, don't read anything of it.

Don't, don't, don't read any.

Just write it through very calmly, very strongly.

How the land fighting is going better, what about the protests and so forth.

No comment.

What about what must be agreed and so forth.

I have no comment.

I'd sure like to.

Can I?

We'll get that from elsewhere.

Elsewhere?

The point of this is that they should be passing resolutions in the United States Senate calling on the Northeastern Leagues to stop them.

They should be standing up indignantly.

addressing the North Vietnamese invasion, not all of a sudden the stock emotional response against something that is dealing with an invasion.

They failed, apparently, to even comprehend what is going on.

You might say this, the critics are shooting at the wrong target.

they should they should direct the fire against the communist forces from North Vietnam that are invading South Vietnam rather than against the president who is simply trying to stop this invasion and violation and so on and instead of

You see my point?

Yes, sir.

I think you would say that much.

And they, uh, their direction gets a long target if they want peace.

Uh, to keep using that invasion order, do it.

It's taken hold.

Use it.

Do it.

And then say that the, uh, I think you also might, uh, sort of give another little act that the, uh, that, uh,

But I'd like to get off of Ed and Ron's point that they're turning.

It's very puzzling to you why some of the critics always end up taking the side of the enemy, who are amazed of Vietnam.

rather than the side of our allies, the South Vietnamese, who are defending our country.

I see you're just a shade away from taking the side of the enemy, who are invading South Vietnam, rather than the side of our allies, who are trying to defend their country against the communist division.

I think you should say that.

And let them spill it.

What do you think?

Well, I think we have a case to make.

Now, Rock is supposed to say these things today.

We should see whether he says them today.

Because the standard of the White House backs him up.

Well, we will.

We'll do another three.

The other point we can come up with.

Let me say that on that, these two points could well be made.

You say it.

If you have a chance to say that, say it.

But if not, you say it.

let's put it right we have the negotiating point to make we have that we can say here's the president who has withdrawn a half a million men and has made a negotiating offer i have all the material we've said it in the briefings but i just

I just have a sense that we don't go out today and cover any broad new ground, but I think it's worthwhile at 3 o'clock if they come up with some questions.

You can just look them in the eye and say, look, this here is the situation.

And you can keep the invasion thing going and show that we're not backing down or leaving any of the courses.

Now, they say, if there are any limitations on them, I thought I called with Rogers on this.

Are there any limitations on what we're going to do with regard to them?

except for the military weapons, the oppressor will do what is necessary.

Do what is necessary, and the following will stop when they stop invading.

They stop their invading, withdraw their forces across the DMZ.

Now, does that mean all the people?

Just say withdraw their forces across the DMZ, and then across their district, and they stop invading.

That's right.

Another way you can put it, which I worked out, I turned it over to Roger, he said it straight, or he said it,

We will stop our bombing of military targets in North Vietnam before Vietnam stops killing Americans and South Vietnamese in South Vietnam.

We're going to kill the Americans and South Vietnamese.

I'm sure Congress and the South, he's sure to praise the South Vietnamese for fighting courageously to defend their homeland.

We haven't, we've had to be very proud of our Air Force people who have provided the whole of this country, preserved our homeland against a communist invasion, and our, I keep using the word communist invasion, you used the term that you did one day last week where you said, well, I want these guys to write this.

Say it again.

look him in the eye see we have a tendency when we when there's a big thing like this then we begin to back away and withdraw and get defensive well damn it we shouldn't do that the actions we're taking and the problem is that we didn't i think that the colson and his outfit didn't drop the ball they dropped the ball actually because they didn't know what they were supposed to do apparently but they did exactly what henry told them to well

Henry was very adamant that he didn't want to escalate the debate.

Now he's saying, since the debate is escalated, we can do it.

Well, the debate was escalated last week.

I'm thinking about it.

See, Henry's line this morning was, well, I didn't want to get the attack started any sooner than we had to by the Democrats.

Well, what the hell?

Obviously, they're going to attack the day we win.

dropped the first bomb.

We're all right.

I think we're in good shape.

There's uncertainty a little bit, but the invasion thing is there.

I want you to hit the idea.

I would suggest that some of the critics should start speaking on board.

the South Vietnamese were defending their country against the Communist invasion of Northern Ireland.

And those brave American pilots, airmen and seamen who were helping them, rather than taking the side, always finding a way to take the side of the Communist invaders in Northern Ireland.

Put it right on there.

Put it down there.

Well, the other point is, too, many of the critics seem to suggest all they have to do is close their eyes and the problem will go away.

The North Vietnamese will stop invading.

That's the line we're taking.

They're saying, well, the efforts on the part of the United States to deal with an invasion, the way to stop the problem there is just close your eyes and forget about it.

And we take it to the United Nations Security Council and call for a ceasefire.

Why didn't they do it?

You know why?

You know who sits in Security Council?

The Russians.

And now the Chinese.

I'm not going into too many details.

One's enough.

It's the silliest goddamn thing I've ever heard of.

And I listen to the aspects of it.

That's really too silly to comment on.

called both Russians and Chinese, or the Security Council.

That's the reason why the Humphrey's administration was not taken to the Security Council because of the media that did it.

Okay, the Muskie's good resolution is stop all military operations immediately.

That's going to solve the thing.

Stop all of ours?

Yeah, that's his resolution.

Stop all military operations.

Stop all U.S. military operations.

That's what I was in there.

I'd like to.

What has been done about this?

Well, that's the whole hammer and grunt that's needed.

And I don't think you should get any of the individuals by their proposals.

I don't think you should.

Well, we don't.

I wouldn't.

I don't want to.

It should mean that if you want it, the critics should read it.

I'll just keep it to the critics.

Keep it to the critics and so forth.

Do you got some quid?

The only other thing we'll get here, and we always get it when there's an action like this, when did the President decide on this?

I'm not going to go straight to him.

I'm not going to tell him a goddamn thing.

And don't you, I've given you this order before, I've given it under no circumstances from now through into the election, and anybody in this White House is going to have to see John Osborne or Hugh Siding alone.

No call is ever to be returned to either.

Is that clear?

Yes, sir.

Absolutely.

Fine.

And as far as wanting the president to decide, I have no comment.

All right.

Is that clear?

Yes, sir.

I've made my decision.

I'm not going to do anything.

I don't know what I had for breakfast, whether I slept well or not, whether I had a column or not.

None of their goddamn business.

Don't talk about that.

We're going to speak totally on it.

I'm not going to discuss that.

I have nothing to talk, nothing to comment on.

Okay.

Fine.

Is he going to rest his son?

I have nothing to comment.

But then we'll make it work.

Yes, we're taking a very hard line.

We're going to continue to take a hard line.

It's too bad that I didn't realize that they were everything Henry's.

Henry tells me, because I asked him about that, that that isn't what he said.

He said that he said it.

at least launch some defenses of what we were doing there.

We've done that.

We've answered every attack as it's come.

But it doesn't work unless you attack the opposition.

The only thing we haven't done is to, on our own, well, maybe it isn't all that bad that we did it.

I don't know what you think.

I don't think it is that bad.

I'm not concerned about it.

There comes a time to attack.

Now maybe the time is to attack.

We've had the invasion line firmly established.

We have a posture of calmness.

We have the double-track thing going in some sophisticated way.

But I can say that on both, on both, on both, I'm thinking about negotiations.

Now, I thought it was great to talk about that with Nicole and me.

For three, almost three years before the president's speech,

you fully ragged me and him about whether or not we were negotiating in every area.

On the very 22nd, the full record of our negotiating efforts, primarily in public, was put out.

And a lot of you who had written

that the administration was not going far enough in terms of seeking to negotiate a settlement had pretty red faces.

My gentlemen, I'm not going to discuss what is taking place in private channels now, but I will only say the record since January of this administration in seeking to negotiate a settlement publicly and privately, and privately.

When it is reviewed,

It's not even, also leaves some very good visions of what we know in the press.

Just say it that way, understand?

I told Rock, I should have said that, but I'm sure he wouldn't.

But you can say that, and just have my word about it.

Well, Rock, are there, are there some privacy regulations?

Are you suggesting, or can we speculate?

I have nothing to say about that, but just leave it hanging out there.

Just say they're going to use the term red faces.

There were red faces, those of you who said we were here doing everything we can.

Well, what about this breaking up?

Don't assume, gentlemen, don't assume that what you said, either don't assume that the tip of the iceberg is all in the iceberg, as far as negotiating the track is concerned.

I don't want you to come up with that, but the sailor's the man.

So be it.

I teased one guy a little bit the other day.

You teased him again.

You do it very often.

Use the red face sign.

It's true.

They did have red faces, didn't they?

Sure.

No, no.

Call Ms. Nixon right away.

Just tell her that the press, tell her the press has raised the question.

They really haven't.

They can't run more than one China story a day and give that a good play.

We want, the President wants the Panda story to get the big play so that we can respect what they've been wanting when we've added the Panda story on Thursday.

Fair enough.

I know those are concerns, frankly, you and he are about to have.

I mean, I personally basically don't like to see them ever put their heads in the water.

I like to attack.

But on the other hand, there's something that we said in this instance to allow them for the four days to, and that's when they really started to like it, you know, they started loving it.

It allowed them to get right out there at the end of the mountain and land and just tear the hell out of them.

But our people now have to tear the hell out of them.

That's the point.

Do you see my point?

Sure.

Is it time to unleash Agnew?

I suppose not.

Would you do that?

It is the time.

It's better.

Agnew could go out and kick the shit out of them.

Kick them right in the balls.

Or write a vicious speech for Agnew and deliver it someplace.

Or maybe that's a better plan than anybody else.

I know for a fact that you can get Rockefeller and Reagan to join in this joint statement or anything that you like.

We might put that down as a possibility.

That'd be a nice little combination.

Maybe they got better plans, Bob.

I don't know.

I don't think they were planning on it.

And I think, you know, that would be good.

Or he's doing a supermarket institute today, which isn't the place to go, but he's got a Tulsa speech tomorrow, and that would be.

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Buchanan, the writer, the teasers, the fetus, taking the side of the enemy, and all that sort of life.

God, I'm really praying the writer should be strong today.

His relations are...

I don't think he will, but you know, Henry will be there, and then take it right down to the, that's my ground.

Yep, he will.

The best gun in the war has been that Lieutenant Colonel Liffey.

It's a new cross-bansion.

It is the greatest pleasure I'm going to have.

Just to get those cross-bansions whining, bellowing, and everything.

You know, there used to be a time when fellows like Dick Wilson would be in about, Bill White would be about even or slightly better than even in terms of PR effect.

Now there are counting voices in the meetings.

They're columnist, of course.

Of course, excuse me.

I rather think that some of the people are a little bit ginger about this thing.

On the TV, people have had analog lost.

They should be lost.

And they've had, because of that.

Who in the hell do you think is the white outside talking to Eric Smith?

Who in the hell?

That was that one.

I'm not blaming anybody.

I just sort of wanted to find out who was sitting on the staff, you know, who went out and talked to that son of a bitch Harrison.

If they'd given it to Joe Alsop, I wouldn't mind it.

I doubt if there was anybody in the staff meeting because that isn't the line that any, that's the opposite of the line that's been consistently taken.

That's the strange thing.

Whoever said it is somebody who has no concept of what the plan is.

Because losing an office, I mean, losing a lawyer is, you know, don't, don't, don't, don't.

The lawyers are going to work hard and so forth.

They had a nice time with Chuck.

I don't think anybody went.

Poor little chap, they had a hell of a problem.

They couldn't get an audience for it at a great price.

They'd write it away when people would come.

They invited the diplomatic corps, as they always do, and set up a special plane for them, and only something like eight or ten accepted, so they canceled the plane.

And not many.

It's over.

People just aren't interested anymore.

They had a nice crowd down there, but it wasn't like what they'd been before.

It wasn't like what they'd been before.

See, they're all living in their own world.

But people will watch it when they go to the movies, right?

Well, there's apparently going to be some spectacular television.

They've got new cameras, and they're running a lot more hours of TV and all that.

So that'll be...

We had thought it was a possibility, but it seems to me it's incongruous now.

Did you find, on the way to the comrade lunch today, one of some vibly?

No.

your 19th and Constitution site for the bicentennial gardens you're going to be, they're going to present the plan on Wednesday for a no.

But I don't think you know.

Comer lunch is going to be just done.

Yeah.

I think it was a nice idea, that.

Well, it might have been, you know, if nothing else were happening, it would be a, I think it looks a little bit as if we're trying to play it too cool.

And apparently you talked to Frank Boa and said you wanted to have him come in to talk to you about his future plans.

No.

He's coming in January.

Can you talk to him?

I'll see him in the dinner.

I think he's probably been ranking after Colmer.

No.

Have him rank.

In any event, have him be seated by me.

At the dinner.

In other words, on one side or the other.

Is that clear?

That gives me no reason to have to study so much.

It doesn't mean I don't have to tell Brian to give the other dinner.

I don't want to talk about that.

All right.

I don't know what the hell he wants to do.

I'm 75 years old.

I'm going to call my first.

Go ahead.

Yep.

And it's, you know, they're all making the point that your whole strategy was to

to keep the war out of view was an issue on that issue.

Our problem was exactly the opposite.

I didn't want to create anything, but that's their strategy.

One of our problems was that the war was disappearing.

The positive segment of that's an issue.

As I told you, I won't give a goddamn of a public reaction here.

Not a damn.

I don't want anybody to even talk to me about it.

We're going to do the right thing.

And everybody around here is going to start thinking that way.

You know?

But I think everybody around here should be hawkish as hell.

You're getting right.

But you're not a hawker, I see.

I don't know what, but right in your face.

But that's what you need.

Call me.

Oh, I'm doing the right thing.

Give it to them.

I don't want to go.

The Americans for Freedom are even sending you resolutions.

Yeah.

Bob Manoy.

People around here, I mean, like your research types, except for Buchanan and the Saudis, God damn it, they all stand up and say, we're proud of the president, we're willing to risk his political future and everything else in order to do what's right for the United States.

Now, somebody ought to put it that way.

That's really what's involved here.

You know, and a lot of people know that, don't they?

It's been recognized, isn't it?

Oh, sure.

I mean, it's been recognized by our critics.

You know, it's been written in the editorial table.

you know you may say you don't care what the public reaction is but i think it

from the standpoint of a leader.

Leader types, like Governor Rockefeller or something.

Billy Graham and things like that.

Well, of course your types have the feeling that it's good enough to people, but there's a hawkish feeling that this is, well, the reaction of Billy Graham's people have as a chancellor and a Christian.

I told you.

Yeah.

Now there's, he said, because we had withdrawn all that bullshit that horses that just didn't seem right, that now they would invade, you know, I mean, draw the faults on their side.

Now the invasion line, of course, State didn't want to put that out in the press gate for printing, but that's the only good thing we've done on the PR side.

It was a good thing to do.

Invade, invade, invade.

Just like our invasion of Cambodia, which they played the other way.

It was us invading Cambodia, and that was a terrible thing we were doing.

If you can play then invading across the DMZ, violating the understandings.

There's three invaders, and all that.

Raid of South Vietnam.

It's danger in American soldiers.

It's danger in the South Vietnamese.

Raid of civilians.

Interestingly, even the battlefield, I mean, not battlefield, but the horror story stuff that they run on television has been the other way.

It's been the horrors caused by the North Vietnamese invasion.

You mean like the leader's energy?

Yeah, showing little kids all shot up.

The usual stuff that they do.

They do it by firelock every night.

But they are showing it, yeah.

They're not showing it as us now.

Of course, they'll try to.

They'll bust their asses to try and show that you killed a lot of civilians in the bombing and all that sort of stuff.

But I'm not sure they'll get away with that.

But one thing that they're having a hell of a time with, Bob, is to prove that Americans are engaging on the ground.

They're trying their goddamnedest to say, well, there's an advisor here or there.

The only thing they've been pushing is the truck driver thing.

We had a truck driver who was driving in, you know, and he still lives up somewhere.

Isn't that unbelievable?

Yeah, but it's such a goddamned thing to do.

Yeah.

What do you think we should do now?

They complain because we are...

The Russians complain because we bombed Haiphong, what do you think?

Well, they don't complain before when they start attacking South Vietnam.

Just one question with another one.

Who gives you the right to attack South Vietnam?

What would you do now?

Well, sir, as I was telling you before, the worms will start attacking inside the sulking nerve and destroy it.

Every man will want it and he won't demand it.

The bad one is dead.

Oh, Christ.

You'll see.

If you could, you might just say, because I don't know what his mood is.

I didn't talk about the situation today, so I can not do it.

On the other hand, I think it's a good idea to really operate until I'm refreshing something.

I think, really, that that's what he ought to do.

I don't believe that he's going to be the best economist, or whatever the hell his attitude is, or his own business is.

But he should walk in at this point.

I mean, I don't know if I should walk in now and say that he's going to have to check out and see what might be.

And I must say that

on the terms of the following weekend is .

There's something there.

It wasn't that bad in the beginning.

There's something there, Bob, that we don't understand.

And I don't believe the staff has been all that bad on it.

I know you haven't.

But you never know.

It just may be that, you know,

We do so many things through Danes here.

Erwin probably told one of his boys to do something, and Schultz maybe had one of his boys do something, and Stein had one of his boys do something, and that's not the ship, it's the man.

Correct.

Sure.

I'm sure that there's a way to handle it.

It's always with the big man.

You've got to do it directly, you see.

That's the mistake that the staffers make.

They just mark something and check with Connelly.

Boy, you can't send the boy to the man.

I'm sure there are things that are not at the level that should go to Connelly, and so they figured that they shouldn't bother him with it.

And most of them, they shouldn't.

That cuts both ways, too.

You know, you do, and then you're trying to say, well, why don't you wish you might kind of let this chicken and shit stop?

You know, we're just kind of... No, I'll tell you, it's very much... You'll have to do it with the extent that these sticks are not...

It's not part of your time.

Even earlier, basically, that's where it gets down to.

John now has time.

He's going to walk there and plant his ass outside of his office until Connolly has time to sing.

Of course, it may be that Connolly feels like I'm bothering him all the time.

Now, that's another problem.

He doesn't seem to indicate that because he doesn't raise his sense when he comes in.

But, well, and what I...

You know, I push on the meeting, and he can tell you the president on that kind of thing.

And sometimes when he's got time scheduled, he'll say, you know, I don't need to see him.

I don't need to see him this Sunday.

I don't mind if we generally do it anyway.

Well, no, it's just to be sure he's here.

I think it's going to be a nice spring after all.

A couple days of it.

Those trees.

Yesterday was creepy.

It stopped suddenly.

We couldn't get together.

We couldn't get on the boat.

Couldn't do a thing.

That's the worst of all weather.

It's those, well, at least we scattered the thunderstorms.

You know, you stop and think about what would have happened.

I don't know what would have happened.

I can't believe that this happened.

What would have happened?

I overruled everybody here.

about this Henry and Hagen, but I just, when I ordered a double of the B-52 fleet in Maine, that didn't come to the battle field.

We did it right from here.

And the Navy, we've argued a little more than that, 10 times as much.

If we had not done that, South Vietnam would be lost today.

They didn't figure what you're talking about.

Well, we solemnly said that the Vietnamization has failed.

That's what Muskie said.

He doesn't necessarily think it's failed.

So Muskie said Vietnamization.

So he says we should get out, isn't what he's saying, a resolution to withdraw all Americans.

Is that what he's saying?

To cease all military operations.

For Christ's sakes, we cease, like Goliath, put them right now.

We cease and they fire.

In other words, he wants to cease fire.

We cease and they continue fire.

They fire.

We can't have that kind of a cease fire.

It must be on both sides.

He's not totally, not totally irresponsible.

Okay.

My Soviet experience reading that Soviet note says it's the mildest thing they could have done.

It gives them a cover.

Can I ask a question about this fall?

I don't want this, that we're supposed to announce today that we're going to move on.

I don't want them to, I don't want to announce and then have these little assholes pull the plug on us and cancel it.

They won't pull the plug independent of Moscow.

Okay.

Whatever they do will be, will be shown.

One thing that, if I can, before we come to this one, she doesn't mind.

I have, I remember what happened to you too, you remember too, but I was here, and I know what happened, and I know how embarrassing it was for us now.

Henry, I do not.

We've got to play Moscow very carefully.

If we ever get a feeling they're going to break off the summit, we're going to break it off first.

No question.

We have got to do it.

See?

No question.

Close to the bridge.

So that's... Joe Grant called.

They're spooked.

He's not at all sure of himself.

He says he notices that the Russians are very modest in their response.

He said, do you guys know what you're doing?

I said, Joe, write anything you want.

He said, why are you, he said, why don't you, I don't know.

Ambassador, how are you?

Welcome to town.

Hello to town.

We walk to town.

Ambassador, they want a picture of us.

We've already had it on the screen.

It was spent here like this.

It was spent here.

I want to have one of you holding the message.

He's got a message for me.

All right.

Now let's get one of Dr. Fisher in, too.

He used to go to Warsaw, too.

You've never been to Warsaw, have you?

No one once told me that once.

I was once in Warsaw.

Oh, yeah.

In 1964.

So now I've got to come around.

I've got to go to Warsaw.

I appreciate that very much.

And Prime Minister, this is the Prime Minister.

Well, it's enough, it's enough.

Let me say, my visit last time to Poland, so much has happened because Mr. Kolomko was there.

Is he still living?

He's a great old man now.

He's about 67, 68.

Oh, he's not too old.

He's sure might be older than I.

Yes, because we have some problems with him.

Thanks.

He was a strong man.

I remember when he was very strong.

I thought that he lived in Khrushchev, I remember.

I wrote that in my book, you know.

But that's because he was Polish, you see.

Very strong people, especially for the part of Poland, for the southeast part of Poland.

It's a very beautiful letter.

Very nice, very nice.

And he said, I'll show you that I'm in a separate department to be one time here in the United States.

Oh, was he?

Yes, he was here.

Was he an ambassador?

No, no, he was a deputy prime minister.

He was the first to be here.

And Alan, he is a new chairman of the state.

He's the president, the chairman.

Well, we will, uh, uh... We will, uh, we will look forward to coming, uh, to, uh, as you know, uh,

Because I have said, and you are aware, we have differences in types of government, differences about certain

areas of the world.

But the United States seeks good relations with all countries.

We particularly have a reason to seek good relations with Poland, because there's so many Polish-American, and they all want...

One-third of the Polish nation is in the United States.

One-third.

Right.

Yes.

In fact, that's way too good a difference.

And we want to, we will do that, and it's not doing good.

having full regard for your right to have any independent policy.

And for us, we have an independent policy.

But there are many areas where our two governments can work together.

And that's what we try to seek in these.

That's what I was trying to do in China.

That's what I will be doing in the Soviet Union.

And that's what we'll be doing in Poland.

But with Poland, I will go with a little different feeling, because I know so many Polish friends in Chicago, and Cleveland, and Pittsburgh, and New York, and California.

And they say, you've got to go to Warsaw.

You know the cardinal that I was going to mention in Philadelphia is a Polish.

Do you know him?

The Catholic cardinal in Philadelphia.

He's a Christian.

Is that right?

He speaks pretty good Polish, I don't think.

He told me that when I spoke there at some fair, he said, he considered himself the second-ranked Pole.

Where will we stay there, Mr. President?

Will we stay at the guesthouse?

It hasn't been worked out yet, Mr. President.

Whatever they want.

The Polish government has requested that we inform them of the number of the parties so that they can make a specific proposal.

We will look forward to coming to, as you know, as I have said and you are aware,

We have differences in types of government, differences about certain areas of the world, but the United States seeks good relations with all countries.

We particularly have a reason to seek good relations with Poland because there's so many Polish Americans and they all want to have good relations.

One-third of the Polish nation is in the United States.

But we, in fact, and we want to, we will do that, and it's not to, having full regard for your right to have any independent policy, and for us to have an independent policy, but there are many areas where our two governments can work together, and that's what we try to seek in these, that's what I was trying to do in China, that's what I will be doing in the Soviet Union, and that's what we'll be doing in Poland, and, but with Poland, I will go with the

A little different feeling because I know so many Polish friends in Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, New York, California.

They say, you've got to go to Warsaw.

Philadelphia, yeah.

You know, the cardio that I'm going to do in Philadelphia is a Polish.

You know that?

The Catholic Cardinal, who was on the cross, he's the only Buddhist of Buddha's time.

Is that right?

He speaks pretty good.

He told me that when I spoke there at some time there, he said, he considered himself the second Grand Pope.

He's the second Grand Pope.

Where will we stay there, Mr. President?

Hasn't been worked out yet, Mr. President.

The Polish government has requested that we inform them of the number of the party so that they can make a specific proposal.

And Black Station will be visiting there on this.

Well, I want to do whatever their government wants.

And to meet their needs.

I think after we have given the Polish government the composition of our party, they seem very confident that they could work that far.

I thought it was so short time, only one day.

Well, you see, the difficulty is we have such a long visit to Russia that when I'm spending one day in Iran, I have to cut the shot short.

She's not very happy about the understands.

But I said, look, I've got to go to Poland.

But we'll fill the day.

And I want to see all the officials.

And you can do a lot of them today, too.

You can't do much sightseeing.

Mrs. Mixon, I think Mrs. Mixon would like to give me something out of here.

Well, I think it's the best thing, Mr.

Ambassador, for me.

She likes to visit those things that relate to people, like schools, hospitals, you know, people's homes, cultural, but more people rather than things.

and the wheel of hilarious work out is fine.

I would say one thing that might be a nice thing, just a small matter of experience.

In 1959, I heard the Postman Boys Choir.

And they came and sang here in the White House last year.

And if they are still there, maybe they might hear them again.

I don't know.

Or some other.

I don't care.

But whatever you want.

The best course we have today here in the 1950s

Is your town Warsaw or do you live in another part?

I am living in Warsaw, but I am coming from Wozniak.

So it's the western part of Poland.

Oh, I see.

Oh, the way down.

Yeah.

It is the first day that you answer.

The second day is June the 1st.

When I came to Poland with the President in 1964, I had a lot of Polish students, and they heard that I was in Poland, and about eight of them came from as far away as Krakow,

without telling me, and just sat down in the lobby of my hotel after I showed up.

I was really terribly touched.

They didn't know whether I could ever see them.

If you have any of your students there now, I'd like to shake their hand.

Oh, yes.

I'm very proud of you, sir.

I studied in Paraguay for six months.

When?

38.

You were 100 years old.

Yes, I was.

I was a reporter there for a long time.

How about that question?

Berkeley, too?

Where were you at Berkeley?

What year?

The 8th of the 9th.

And, well, that's interesting.

I was a young lawyer then.

Yes, young.

That's right, yeah.

Did you like Berkeley?

It's a great, great place.

Oh, yes, I remember Berkeley from the pre-war times.

We had a small, beautiful university.

Beautiful.

Say again, everything.

But today, I saw that Berkeley is so big.

About six or seven years ago.

And you live back?

Back.

It's a colossal university.

Someday, someday you'll have to go, and I'd like to hear you.

Well, we all look forward to visiting your country, and I can assure you that we will...

We both, as I said, we want the visit to be one that will show the friendship between our two peoples, recognizing the differences that our governments may have, but trying to find areas of agreement, respecting each other.

That's the only basis for a new east-west relationship.

We understand that very much.

And we think if we can get that, we can understand with your government that we can find parallel areas to work together.

particularly in the economic field, that it will be very fruitful.

It can be self-sustaining to at least help issues.

No problem can ever be solved.

You can only start from the self-sustaining.

You know, as an economist, you know that you can never solve any problem.

You just start from that.

We're very good to see you.

That's for you to tell me.

Thank you.

We'll see you at the center.

Yes, thank you.

What's up?

Yeah, I'll be seeing you.

Oh, yes.

Well, you've been working on this for a long time.

Thank you.

Two days after bombing, I thought...

I want to see the press people, but Mr. President, you were in Hanoi, and you saw the new legislation today, 48 hours after the bombing of Haifa.

The Polish ambassador sent such a woman, brought such a woman to Texas.

Of course, that's an invitation written for the bombing.

but he delivered it 48 hours after.

You think they had a better communication?

Oh, yes.

They probably went to the satellite hill before sending it.

It means two things.

It means the Russians didn't stop them from sending it, and that they delivered it.

Now, also, as far as our press is concerned, this announcement, what are they going to say?

The communists are very mad at you.

Is that what you're going to be watching for us about now?

No, I want to McClasky, Hankin, and Ziegler meet every morning, and I want to position them.

But last week, and then I have the Wessex meeting, and then I have the freedom campaign, but that will be only 15 minutes.

When is your Wessex meeting?

Now, at 11.

But be sure to take the very strong, very line in kicking the Democrats.

Now, they've got to be kicked for them to be on the bases.

Why, in this period, are they constantly supporting the invaders of South Vietnam, rather than the Southian major defending their homeland?

I really want to crack a little bit of the treason business out there.

you

I was going to say is that I want everybody to be... Peter didn't have at all this presentation in making this speech that he made.

I don't think he realized his guiltiness as a Catholic.

And the speech he made in there, he's making on national television.

The thing I was going to say is that, talking of all the things that they were concerned,

I raised the point about the fact that we let the Democrats last week have a field day of just knocking our brains out.

And they had called and said that he thought it was because they had gotten an idea from you, which they thought also was to be that we were not to take any position.

Well, I think they misunderstood.

I mean, I think the point was that you

But I'll be sure we always have you out to defend, right?

And so forth.

But be that as it may, it's my total fault.

There's no loss.

It's at least what I've been able to turn out out there.

But now they must be savagely hit.

They must be savagely hit.

You know, now that they're out there... No question.

You see, the rhetoric now is escalated, Henry.

There's no...

There has to...

There's better no way to be avoided.

But now they must be savagely hit.

What we should avoid if we can, Mr. President, is an introduction of a lot of resolutions in the Senate.

For this reason, if there is a resolution that will come up for a vote in two to three weeks,

then Hanoi will have another excuse to wait to see how that resolution will come.

The point is that the resolution is something we cannot control because in fact they're likely to be driven off of it if they think that the resolution

may put them in the view of being defeatists and appeasers.

Yet, on the other hand, they think they have a free shot at us.

You see, this resolution, I think, is almost impedable if they're going to put one up.

And what we have to do is to filibuster, fight it, take it on, take it on in every goddamn way you possibly can.

Actually, I don't think Mr. President...

I must, because we've already got one.

I'm in favor of attacking anybody who's made a statement

I don't think that they had a field day last week, because I don't think they were saying much last week.

They didn't start yelling until we bombed Hanoi and Taipan.

And now we have to hit back.

They did.

They didn't get as much play, I think, as some of our people thought.

As they look at the new submarines over at the Muskie, before the bombing as well as afterwards.

And basically, because they're presidential candidates, they get more of a play than they otherwise would.

A query.

Has Scott Mansfield taken off now?

Yeah.

Chinese statement is very mild, Mr. President.

Mansfield made a statement saying this will prolong Du Bois, will make his task in Shanghai the trust proof he doesn't know a goddamn thing.

His task in Shanghai.

You know, we've allowed, we've given him really the extra bit of rope here, as if he had any goddamn special task or mission.

He doesn't have a thing.

It's a 10-man task.

When I tell the Chinese ambassador tomorrow that I'm going to Moscow, we are now playing this reverse.

They are not going to look for trouble with us.

That's right.

Because that show will be in Vermont.

What we get out of the Moscow trip is pressure on Peking, pressure on Hanoi.

What they get out of the Moscow trip is pressure on Peking.

Right.

We don't mind giving them the pressure on Peking.

But as far as Mansfield is concerned, let me say that when he returns, he's got to be savagely taken off, too, because he has been, you want to remember, with his nice manner, he has been vicious in the way that he has

You see, what I think, Mr. President, is I now think that deal that I suggested to you this morning, I don't think the Russians could, if they wanted to, deliver a final settlement.

What I should do is pretend that that's what we want and retreat to an interim solution so that it looks reasonable.

The interim solution being?

The interim solution being we say let's return to the status quo before the offensive.

They withdraw the three divisions that came across the DMZ.

We stop the bombing.

They scale down their offensive actions in the south.

Russia guarantees this.

And talks, Litochto returns to Paris and talks start.

Mr. President, we deliver that.

I think, first of all, we can murder our critics here.

Second, I believe if talks start under those circumstances, Hanoi

may negotiate seriously for this reason.

They've thrown their Sunday punch this year.

They were defeated on the ground and hit very hard in the North.

If they do it again next year, after you've been re-elected, they'll be even worse off.

I'd make one other condition.

We'll stop the bombing in the North, provided they withdraw their three divisions across the BNZ and return to POWs.

I think we've got to insist on that at this point.

Well, that they won't do.

Try.

I'll certainly try.

You understand.

Or at least they let him sign the P.O.W.s, unless they don't get deceived and he can retreat there.

They've got to start some token on the P.O.W.s, the second wounded, for example.

Right.

Doesn't that make sense?

That makes sense.

But let me say that I'm not...

But you see, then I would murder the Democrats if that is stopped.

Well, we can murder them, except you understand that they go into their convention and we go into the campaign.

But the war is still going on.

That's our problem.

You see, the only way we can get this thing out of the way, and that's why we may have to go the harder line, the blockade and the rest of it, rather than taking the half-assed line like this, the only way we can get this out of the way is to get

I think, Mr. President, if we go this route, and if we get the Russians involved getting it settled this far, we have a real chance of getting it settled well before the election, because then I do not see what Hanoi is going to wait for.

What will be better for them next year?

Well, it has to be tied in, then, with the denunciation in June.

And we've got to consider the May announcement as to whether or not that has to be drawn now.

I wonder if the May announcement...

I would not announce anything this week.

Why not do it next week?

What do you mean, next week?

Oh, yeah, the May announcement.

And for your press conference.

But the point is whether that main announcement should simply be a reduction of forces, or whether at that point we want to use the draft D then.

I would not, Mr. President.

I agree.

To announce the reduction of forces in the middle of an offensive is such a show of confidence.

Besides, we have the Moscow thing next week, too.

Available.

You mean, maybe?

I mean, do you mean services?

Yeah.

What do you mean?

But we wouldn't start this if the talks were going on, would we?

Why not?

We said it was a ranch in Moscow.

Michael, you know, that might be an idea.

Supposing you planned it.

I might go to the press conference with that.

That's what I mean.

You said it.

Moscow and talks are going to result.

And then, well, I'd have to fire gas those sons of bitches.

That's what I mean.

And then I could sort of, in a low-key way, also get a few thousand troops out of there.

Yeah.

I've reduced forces to, I've decided that it's never going to be 40,000, it's 50,000.

Much better.

So it looks like a, and that's a half a million, isn't it?

Exactly.

That's 500 short of half a million.

Yeah.

I'm trying to reduce this to 50,000, so it's a good force.

It's better if you have to do it.

It sounds like a good run.

Right.

Everybody can talk about half a million, 50,000.

When will you return all that?

My instinct is, Mr. President, that next week I am going to, you know, the Russians are tough.

I may not be able to get it done.

But we should try.

You just talked about the rain of the day.

That's what it's about.

He's bringing the message.

No, he brought me the message.

The talk would have been just to show that we are tasked to say that we won't reply to this message.

Oh, he's going to reply to the message.

No, no, I'm going to reply to the message.

He will reply to the message.

He won't reply to the message.

We understand that's the position you have to take.

I won't even say that.

Wait a minute.

But you've got to understand that we're taking the position that we're going to take and the President is not.

I mean, we deflected one bit and he has no answer to this.

You see what I mean?

If I could be deflected a bit, would I understand that?

And our talks throughout the summit are a separate matter, a separate matter of Vietnam.

So then when you're talking about Vietnam, I'll stick it to him.

I think I know what worries you, though.

Oh, the blockade works, the craft is, that's another thing they call the craft.

He said, he discovered this opiate embassy about the blockade.

I said, I don't know if you know that, there's a lot of talk around here.

But I didn't say there won't be any blockade.

He said, don't you think the blockade is easy to break?

I said, I don't expect there to be any blockade.

OK.

It's interesting.

The UPI story has moved out of Moscow.

We just got it here.

But a source said that the president will have four days in Moscow, and he will try to go to Leningrad, Kiev, and stay at the Kremlin Palace.

They said a 20-man advance team was headed by Zegner, but I don't know what they got that.

And so a source out of the Kremlin

I'm not going to get out.

It was moving now.

Yeah, I think it was so loud in that person's place.

Fine, good.

All right, I'll go see you later.

Yeah.

Bye.

Did these, is Rogers standing firm?

Yes, sir.

Agents, of course, and all the men.

Agents on the UK now.

But Rogers is taking the line.

If they do 12 divisions of a communist attack, what is the difference now between the bombing of the North and the past?

The facts are that there are 12 divisions.

Equipment.

They need the oil.

They need the oil products for all these large and giant pieces of equipment.

He said, why don't you pay attention to it?

When the other side was lying and perpetrating the fraud of the world, why didn't you pay attention to it?

So he said, I hope he holds.

He's got to be on for how long?

Two hours?

Well, they're dragging him out now.

I hope they...

There's some way to cut him off.

He's made the point.

Did you get this?

Yes, I did.

She's fine on tomorrow.

Her point is that Ripley and people currently have been invited to the thing.

The zoo says they're going to get healthy.

So I can't wait.

Can't we change the Chinese ping-pong game to meet at Lansing?

I can check that.

I think it's out there.

Well, we can see.

Let me check Bob.

Why not?

We don't need to check Bob.

What do you mean?

Well, I was going to find out who's playing.

And if it is, we'll just handle it.

So that's what it is.

Okay.

Are they going to play something for me?

Do I have to watch them?

Yes, sir.

The Chinese couldn't have them do it, just ask them if they could do it Wednesday morning, because of my schedule.

And then she'll go off and do that Tuesday.

I think we can do that, ask them if they can shift their schedule, get on it right away.

I probably do have some questions, I'll get them ready.

Brian's got to be nice again.

I hope you're feeling all right.

I don't know how you're doing out there.

Oh, I'm fine.

Keeping your strength up.

I'm fine.

It's hard for people to, you know, it's very hard for people who don't know the likes of your life so much to say the things that people want to hear.

Sometimes you realize it's not you that's got to stick your chin out and get in hell and survive.

He has done some of that, though, I think.

He did in Muskie, but I think he did it, what, about six or seven years ago.

It's hard, though.

I mean, this is a tough deal for a Secretary of State.

You know, because he comes up against terrible committees.

There are all these horrible people out there.

So we're going to be fine today.

We're going to rack them up a little.

They really do.

They're just terrible.

Oh, sure.

Well, they're fine.

I'm not very fine.

The only question is how it all comes out.

It's going to come out all right.

It's just amazing.

I sit around and they don't really think anymore.

They don't really think anymore.

They're just in the blue.

They don't think of the country.

They want the energy to win.

They put the belch in them.

could have that .

Sure.

So we've got a real box on the schedule for that.

This goddamn table for this team comes tomorrow, too, and they can't get it with an Anderson Wednesday without such a... Connie had gone ahead and invited people.

I mean, they just, you know, got a lot of new stories.

Now they're supposed to kill them.

They definitely got the...

In fact, they helped the Panthers out.

How do we want them to do it?

We want them to help her work with his secret, but he didn't put it fully.

He went and he realized it's funny.

No, no, Connie, I'll check with you later.

Connie is just impossible, I believe.

She's so jealous.

And I'm going to get ahold of her.

And she's going to work on it.

See, Connie...

Pat is not talking about taking Connie to Russia.

Connie wants to go there.

If she goes, by God, she's going to go over there and take Ziegler's orders.

She'd be really pretty awful.

I don't think she would.

I don't think she'd hurt anyone.

I'm not talking about others.

Well, but you were absolutely right.

She has no idea.

She thinks that things just happen.

They don't just happen.

And Brenda doesn't get in her way.

I mean, get around, do a few things.

My house is different.

My kitchen is different.

I really climbed down.

God in China was a disaster.

I was...

The whole staff, everybody walking with me every place I went.

I mean, I was totally surrounded, but this time it was just the staff and everybody else on their separate sites, including Rogers.

And if I ever go out to look at anything, I'm going alone.

Yeah, and including Pat, because Pat gets all her own pictures, and then every picture with you.

I know.

The retired members of Congress, I'm on the Army Corps, and I'm on the White House.

The White House should be shot right now.

And with regard to this paper earlier this week, I would like to have it set up more like a Christmas party with a chorus in the East Room and with one out in the hall.

Maybe I don't come through on this one.

Do you remember the Christmas parties?

Do you remember we had them?

So that there are things going on.

And I thought then that a chorus there, too.

Something that rather than just people sitting around dancing around playing the cello, Jesus Christ, that just gradually makes me hurt anyway.

Good entertainment.

It's good of the entertainment, you know, that is going on for them to come up with a good idea, a good game plan.

Because there's a thousand people there and they can be seen.

We should be receiving it.

Maybe it's a little over there.

Maybe it's over in the hall.

We're going to have to work on a scheme.

We're going to have to work on it right away because the damn thing is a spirit.

Just say that we will put it in the hall.

But the point is that that means you can't have the music in the hall.

But after we leave, we'll put the music in the hall.

I want music in two different places.

Put something in there so that you see it.

You can't have a thousand people standing in line for two hours just drinking martinis.

They've got to have something to listen to.

That's why I want that.

And I want a program going on and an audience of people who will come through the line in a leisurely, graceful way.

Discuss it with them.

They do very well, but they don't understand sometimes that sort of thing.

And yeah, we only have this one, and then we've got the Duke class, which is going to be a nice affair.

And that's something that I'm just doing for the thrill of those guys.

I mean, I don't know any of the damn thing, but I knew them many years ago.

It's like the way your colleagues class, you do it.

So you're going to probably learn from your colleagues class.

So I guess we can let Pierre finally have the time to do that.

Yes, sir, that is.

And for those guys that served in the Navy with me, well, what the hell?

It means a lot to them.

Why wait on it?

Because they served in the Navy with us.

So we do that collection there.

You realize that's what it is.

So we've just got a few more events to do.

We do them well.

The thing they had in Canada, that concert type thing, is a good way if you ever wanted to have a big...

I'm thankful to have people in for that, and then afterwards, you know, an invitation or something like that.

Well, I mentioned it to people that we should use the God, then it can't be centered that way.

And then have our, we can't use it.

I thought the OAS thing I mentioned.

We didn't do it because somebody else was using the hall.

That's silly, silly.

But there's really nothing, no event left that we can use that for.

But what we should do is to go around and hear a concert sometime at 8 o'clock and have a buffet afterwards where everybody sits down and has a nice dinner.

And have the White House staff go down and compare the goddamn thing.

Like, you know, we carry the White House staff halfway around the world.

Why not put on a statement around there?

Now, uh...

But I don't know of any event that would do that for us.

I don't either.

He's never been in the White House as a state guest, so we've got to get him a state dinner.

Now that would be better for something else.

Well, if you had somebody who had been here before for a state dinner, then you'd take them there.

That, see, is what the Canadians were doing.

So you didn't have the same rigor.

The horror is to have two dinners of the same type.

Well, not the same, but the same thing.

You go to a concert, and you go there, and the elegance of the concert, have that, and then afterwards you drop out and you have yourselves a big buffet, and a big toast, and get the hell out of there.

I'm going to push that next time.

We have no time.

We don't have any, we have no, no problem on it now because we'll also mention how we're on our 10th for the day for the Navy.

I mean, for my service reception and stuff like that.

And our anchors, too.

The color will be a little more.

These are just ideas.

I don't want to have a case made out of them.

I don't want a 30-page number written to me about it.

But they're ideas that, you see, they weren't decided.

They were the Butterfield and that woman over there, Lucy, and so forth, all sit down and they do a beautiful job.

But they may not know my views, see, on these.

These are my views.

Pass them into the hopper.

But I don't give a goddamn if they decide to have chamber music.

So that's fine.

I've got the best I can do.

The only thing I draw the line on is that stuff, whatever.

I will not have those modern natural disparities, no.

Well, they make other suggestions other than that.

Well, it's modern.

You can get it modern, it's Japanese, it's homosexual.

There's no reason to give yourself the role of that sitting out of it.

That might not happen in the West.

I don't mind having a homosexual in there, but I mean, I'm not going to have a whole man group that way.

Like, that's horrible.

But it's LA, the modern dance, not the university that you have.

Other people have a perfect right to it, but we don't have that here.

Noah Lennon, Elizabeth Lennon, Nancy Hanch, do a tremendous job because while I don't care about your music, they do.

They go around the country and make all those clowns think I like it, which is marvelous.

I'm all for it.

I just don't, I just mean that, you know, you have a right in the high house to have what fits you.

It's not going to be so dishonest.

You have some kind of life.

But Noah Lennon and Nancy are just great.

They looked enthusiastic.

Modern painting, whatever.

Those are nice and enthusiastic.

And for those people, the old baby crowd, the lawsuit crowd, and now we've done all of them.

Three, it doesn't mean anybody left.

We've done a great job of having all those people, I think.

Well, if you stop and think of it, I mean, it's a big memorandum.

Our PR people ought to get out of it.

The quality of entertainment we've had here at the Pine House, the events that we've done, the way we've used the house and so forth, that story is up to an extent.

The quality of the entertainment.

I think, as I said, the Kennedys had the poor old Pebble to sell us.

Great old man.

He's 80.

He can't play the cello.

And for that reason, the Kennedys are found in the history of the art of the White House.

And we've had 20 people who have made it to the Red and Black Book of Psalms.

I mean, why?

Now, they haven't all been there.

But we've had really great impressions.

I think that's Connie's fault that we don't do good press on this kind of thing.

I don't know what she does.

She doesn't know how.

I don't know what it is.

When you say the good press, I'm just being interested in the story.

I don't think they want to write the fact that we have high quality entertainment.

Well, they've read it.

Somebody has to tell them.

Well, I wrote the story.

I don't think Connie's very much...

That is her job, isn't it?

She should be working seven things about the White House and that.

Really, all the time.

Well, I don't know whether it's good or bad, but we can go along.

And, uh, election.

Well, that's, Mitchell has, uh, McGregor and Martin over there now, going over the details on, and nailing it now.

They're going to nail it.

They think it's nailed it.

Well, that's Mitchell's first report.

The next step is McGregor now has to go to see Irvin and nail it.

Maybe we won't go on the basis of Fannin.

Well, no, Fannin's not that equivalent.

Now, Marty apparently sat in with Fannin, so he knows what was covered there.

But now, you get the immediate follow-up of McGregor hitting her.

McGregor will not make a mistake.

Oh, he's a very precise father.

He's a damn good lawyer.

You know, he's, he's, he's plenty of business for a lot of people.

He's very firm on it.

I watched Rogers for a little while and, uh,

My view is he's doing extremely well.

I found that I didn't see enough to get a good feeling, but I saw the rap.

I saw the network rap up with Justine Drew superbly.

But Bill himself, he looked firmer than he usually looks.

And very much in command of himself in the whole thing.

I think he had himself psyched up.

Pretty good for him.

At least you got the feeling that he did.

He didn't back down at all.

Case gave him a big, a long time.

Well, Case did a good job of praising the president and talking about the Vietnamization and his great admiration for what this administration's done in Vietnam.

And he said, had his but, which is, well, we ought to stop the air war.

And Bill hit him back very hard, explained it, did it very rationally, and it was dang good television.

I hope a lot of people watched it, which they didn't.

What are we going to do tonight?

Oh, we'll get something tonight.

Hell yeah.

No question.

Move on.

Have those did it?

This is a different situation than how Church hit him on it.

Yeah, I heard about why this is going to hit Dr. Rogers, but he's probably still on.

He didn't say anything.

Oh, hold that call.

He's still testifying in college.

He didn't put the television, but I think he was still going.

They had him end at the hearing.

I guess my breakers aren't even trying to get the goddamn pieces out of the day.

Oh, yes.

They all want to hear it.

Yes, sir.

Even Mitchell does.

And Mitchell's fine.

He called me and he said, I think we've got to get this moving today and get the speech wrapped up for claimants because he should go on today with it.

So he was all set to pull the plug.

This is what, before he had heard back from the urban meeting.

Now, of course, it's for a hoax.

But, uh, we're going in, we're getting the, it's just, at the point of the speech, uh, polished, uh, finished, and then, uh, yeah, I don't know what they're, what they mean.

I wonder if he just isn't going to say, well, that opens up a new list and all that.

Uh, oh, they said, what his point was here, that it's, he needs a face saver to get off of the thing.

He doesn't want to push it.

He's in a bad...

And he is, he's got a, he's got his own PR problem in holding Cline Dean's nomination hostage to the principal question, and it's a question of principal testimony by the White House, especially since he's also, he's on, you know, the opposite wicket before the Supreme Court on Wednesday.

He's up on the Senator Gravel thing, where the attorney justice is trying to call Gravel's AA.

And Urban is defending him on the grounds that an administrative assistant must be privileged to have his dealings with his senator .

It's the other side.

It's going to have privilege for the Congress and not for the other.

Does anybody attack him for this?

Oh, yes.

And we've done the... Well, they're waiting to get...

He read the whole thing into the congressional record.

The quote that he's got in there about separation of powers and the need for an assistance confidential relationship with his senator are...

Much better foot than all our Irving's on the subject.

So Irving's on it.

He's got a problem now.

I'm good.

Something, something.

I was really pleased with Bill.

He said, I didn't see enough substance.

I don't know.

He may have been totally bad on substance in some parts of it.

But boy, he looked good.

He looked right into the camera.

He looked right in and hit the senators right back.

What he needs to do.

He got a little, you know, he'd get, raise his voice a little, get a little excited now and then.

But he obviously, if he was doing it, you know, he didn't, he was under it.

what the patrol was doing because he wanted to.

Hit the invasion over and over, a massive invasion.

Hit the bloodletting, the bloodbath problem, and we pulled out and left them.

They gave him a tough question on the POWs, that you're creating more POWs while we're shooting.

We're not getting the straight information that, you know, you get all kinds of stories about how many planes are lost.

Bill looked right into the camera and he said, Senator, the correct information is that on those bombings, two planes were lost.

An A-4 was lost and the pilot was rescued from the ocean, recovered.

and 105 or something was lost and the two crew members have not been recovered that's the extent of the losses well you know then the center said thank you secretary did is that even that's the way it means he was preparing that's the way it should be

You said that this was being done for military reasons.

What are the diplomatic reasons?

And he said, now, I answered a specific question regarding the military reasons.

Let me say that there are very important diplomatic reasons.

You know, then hit that, too.

But he's very, he's a good lawyer.

Oh, you know, this is my handle.

Henry doesn't give an uncredited courtroom action.

As a matter of fact, Bill will do much better than making headlines, Henry.

picking and writing the headline in Henry.

Well, Dan Ryan is also much better at getting across precise and understandable language in Henry.

And making the story we want to make about the massive invasion, about the bloodbath and consequences, about the rather than going off on the science treasure explanation, he trapped him.

And he said, well, it's obvious now that we've all agreed here that he trapped Cates on this, that North Vietnam had no intention of negotiating at the table.

Obviously, there's no point in our returning to those negotiations.

He laughed.

He said there's been an offer from North Vietnam this morning to return to the table, which there has.

And he laughed and said, yes, if we stop the bombing.

But we're, of course, not going to stop the bombing in order to move to the Congress table.

We have said we will go to the Congress table when they stop the invasion of South Vietnam.

Then he said, well, do you mean all those troops have to be out?

He said, I said, when they stop the invasion, they've made a massive move, commitment of troops on an offensive action across the DMZ in violation of everything.

He said, when they stop that action, then we'll consider going back to the conference table.

And he did the re-bombing thing, he did it well because he laughed, as though, you know, it was an idiotic proposal.

In fact, the bombing, they sold that to us once.

They sold it in 1968.

He didn't say here, but he said it damn effectively.

Because they said, what's the difference between the bombing now and the bombing then?

It's a totally different situation.

In the first place, we had 550,000 American troops in South Vietnam then, and we were engaged in a gun war.

Now we have virtually no troops in South Vietnam, except a few that are still leaving that we've got to protect.

The President has said consistently, every time he's announced a troop withdrawal, that if the enemy takes actions that endanger the lives of the remaining troops, the President will be telling them to go take appropriate counteractions.

And he's done that, and you have to give the President credit.

He has said what he's going to do, and he's done it.

What he said.

And you know, he just, that's good.

And you see, he would never think to say anything like that.

But it was a dang good line.

And then he said, and also, we have a totally different military situation on the other side.

12 of their 13 divisions are committed to this invasion of South Vietnam.

And they are highly mechanized with sophisticated equipment supplied by other powers.

And he'd say Russia, but he'd say Assad.

And he said, they're highly dependent on the petroleum supplies and other logistic support from the north.

And the bombing attacks now are directed for a specific purpose.

We're knocking out that supply line, that logistic support that they're dependent on.

And he was damn good.

We've got a new case to sell on.

That's the way to solve it, too.

If you get it, it's too bad it's not in prime time.

Well, some of it will be on the news, and we have good coverage.

And it's peace.

As far as I could see, he did exactly what you wanted him to do.

He made his points in damn good fashion.

Did they ask him about Muskie's resolution to stop all the fighting right away?

I don't know.

I suppose that would come up.

That was a squeal.

It's unbelievable.

Unbelievable.

If I were a Democrat, I'd kill him on that.

Scoop will probably try to, but he won't.

Nobody will listen to him.

Wallace won't.

Wallace has written you respectfully demanding that you report me in the tax structure immediately.

Without the help of Congress.

Well, Rumsfeld's reaction to that was, the way we should respond is if the governor will inform me as to how to dissolve the parliament, I'll move ahead with the rest of his suggestion.

Have you been able to be in touch with the county?

The county will not return to Texas until 7 o'clock tonight.

And I think it's better to wait until he gets back.

I'll call him down.

They all want me to, but I don't think I should.

I didn't intend to at all.

Yeah.

You don't want to even call him over the weekend.

Let it ride.

I think he gets...

I think what I'll do is ask his secretary if I've gotten a point out the first thing tomorrow morning.

Yeah.

I think he gets charged.

I think it helps when they go home, don't you think so?

Yes.

Just like Johnson.

Johnson had to go to Johnson City.

He has to get back to the Texans.

He's got to get back and slow down.

The bombing of High Farm and all that, if the guy's got any class at all, he's got to sit down there in his fields and say, Jesus, why did I do that to that poor guy?

Some people...

He's doing something like that.

I think some people may have been thinking that, as I told you, that was the gray outline.

It's the rocket bar line.

Well, one thing Colson's using with our troopers, and they're getting them in for briefing this afternoon, the hard line, you know, the guys that will go out and attack, for sure.

And one thing he's using is sending them here.

It's just practically...

He's fallen.

He can't believe all this stuff, apparently, according to Chuck.

The hawkish term and the point that people are making of, thank God, the president's moving in.

What the hell are these people?

A lot of volunteered responses.

What are these people carping in?

I thought he was totally on issues.

No.

See, he gets voluntary reaction on this stuff.

And he can throw in any question he wants.

Because they're on a continuous study of more hawkish knowledge.

And he's so astonished by it, he's apparently going to come down and have a press conference down here about the reaction of the American people.

Well, I think you'll be pleased to know that I've told Henry that I'm going to see him.

That's kind of the main reason I'm going to have the witness to vote.

So I may have to have a three-four hour meeting.

The real problem we've got with Henry is that he's so desperate to want to negotiate that he may want to give.

We have a partial interim deal here now that will get us past the next couple of months.

I'm inclined to think that I can't let him do that, but at least that's my reminder.

Lord, who am I?

My view is that at the end of the week, unless the Russians come right down hard in this thing, that we blockade him.

In other words, just play the goddamn string right out.

And blockade him and say, well, then we blockade him.

He better be out of his back.

And then when you withdraw him, your horseshoe is up.

Well, it's the difference.

and this is the total difference between the Johnson so-called escalations and stuff in yours, is that his was always a little bit too little, a little bit too light, and never, he was always on the tail end of the thing getting whipped, where you're on the other side of the thing cracking the whip.

And it's a hell of a lot better position to be in.

I see you.

or Rice is leading to go to Grand Harbor.

I'm not particularly impressed by people's,

And I don't really believe it's worth my time to receive people who are leaving for the purpose of getting a fat job, even no matter how hard they work.

That's just my attitude.

I think you're right.

And I'll just deal with this.

I mean, I've done this with some of the angriest people, and I've done it with others.

If they want to leave, let them leave.

But you know,

You've always got this in the last year.

From here on, you probably shouldn't see anybody who's in the last year, but anybody who wants to leave now, he takes off, and goodbye, thank you very much, and what the hell, what do I see?

I mean, there's Schultz right there, and you know, Farkway, Buzz, this one was, and if I can rationalize each of them, rationalize this one, Rice is hard.

No, not that he worked hard, but he's a hell of a good guy.

who can be good for us at Rand.

Come, sugar.

Please.

And so I can't be safe if you find somebody with a Council of Foreign Relations.

I'll do it.

Don't send me going home.

I think you're right.

I think, uh, I think too, there's no point in pushing an awful lot of people in this way.

I don't mind a little girl going off and this one and the secretary and somebody worked hard in the December and so forth and so on.

Forget it.

Have them come in after the election.

What do you think?

Yeah.

I think that's right.

I think, let's just see.

That's Christ.

I don't want to make you think that Steve has four or five times, but that's enough.

Oh, I mean, I realize you have to do something just to be nice to people, but I just, let me put it this way.

I'd rather be nice to people that are staying, rather than people that are leaving.

You know, sure, people that are leaving are leaving for a damn good reason, because this is the time when they've got to capitalize on their fat jobs, where they're doing better here than they do on the outside.

Correct?

Well, it could only be the case for anybody.

And if you look at him, like that Senate, you know, Cal, who we had to bring in, he's just such a good guy.

Well, what the hell, he can get out now because he can get a fat job now.

that this is a bad job.

And I understand that, and I don't mind.

I don't think they need to come in here and get a picture of the flags and the cufflinks and all that bullshit.

That's what I really mean.

Because I said, if we've got any time for that, let's take some forwarding barrel that's sticking around here, and she's going to get a bad job, or he, or...

You can't move the tennis table until the next day.

We'll have two Chinese starts tomorrow, so that's too bad.

That's it.

Just add a story to the big one.

That's fine.

I don't think it matters.

You have got to talk to Connie, and she is to be under this rock.

Now, I am concerned, really, about having her go to Russia.

So what?

Because I think she's a pain in the ass.

And if she goes, she should go as a member of Ron's staff.

See what I mean?

Yeah, but that's the only way she should have her go, and she really has to be.

She is going to go on the plane with us, for example, if you can't have that kind of stuff.

I don't know.

Patty's insisting.

She's only going as a favor to her.

It's just not a good move.

I've talked to Kodas about it.

Kodas is concerned.

And Pat has talked to him.

Has she told Connie how she's doing?

I don't know.

Bill said it's no big deal.

We can handle it if it's just Connie.

The problem is if Connie goes, she'll want to take two of her staff people with her.

And that, Coda said, is a real problem.

In Africa, he had more trouble dealing with Connie and her staff than he did with the Africans and Mrs. Nixon.

I mean, the tour that he gave was the staff.

And that's always the case.

The staff, who doesn't know how to operate on those things, is a pain in the ass.

That's why I don't like to take, you know, you like to be nice and take people along.

But each one we take along is just another problem.

Where are you going to put them?

I don't know, it's not right that they are trying to get the treatment.

If it's just Connie, we can, CODA said we can control it.

Just order it, that way it'll work out in the right time.

Just order, it's Connie involved, or there's no room, I guess, for anybody but Connie by herself.

And frankly, take a room, it's got to be an incredible number.

It's too bad.

I don't know what the Christ she does anyway.

What the hell does Connie do in terms of selling the...

I mean, I'm not trying to sell it to Pat, but I'm in terms of everything from the quality, if you had to pay with the White House to get into that sort of thing.

I don't know what the Christ she does except to sit over there and pick away at Ron and the so-called West Wing.

Well, there's more than that.

She and Lucy fight with each other.

Awful.

I don't see who can get to Pat first with things.

I think that's when you just got to not worry about it.

I ain't worried about it.

But I always say, don't, it's kind of alone.

And just say it.

The Russians won't allow it anymore.

Put on the Russians.

And have it just right over it.

I assumed taking her hairdresser was absolutely good.

I insisted, because that we should have.

I insisted.

OK. That's fine.

She incidentally turned out to be damn good.

It was very helpful when she didn't have other .

I'm confused now.

This silly ass is an oppressor.

I won't get to call him now for the fact that I am going to this lunch.

If you were to call Rogers and say, well, I've been calling a lot, but there ain't none who's still hearing.

You know, he'd blow up and smoke up his ass about it.

Let me check and see.

It'd be good if you do talk to him.

He is going to work on that.

I know the committee.

Well, I'll call him this afternoon.

In fact, I'll call him too.

I'll call him too.

Don't bother calling him.

I'm just

I will anyway.

He deserves it.

He's got a hard deal.

Well, we should, when he does it right, he ought to get backed up.

Because he's damn weak.

He's taking a strong position.

He'll go back and sit there worrying about it now.

Yeah.

He looked better.

He looked damn good.

He will look better than one man.

Well, I told him this morning that this was true.

I didn't know what was going to happen.

It was the military.

The only thing he could do was ask the military if he did that.

I said, one thing I think I should know is that

I don't want you to blockade it.

It's a very important option.

He was good on that.

He ruled out the introduction of ground forces and nuclear weapons.

He said, beyond that, this doesn't take whatever steps.

As he has said always, you take whatever steps are necessary.

I don't think the blockade question came up at a sub, so I don't think he had to answer one way or another.

But he did know the other one.

This is my last call in the election.

It's everybody's last call in the election.

What is this?

He's not supposed to spend a lot of time in here.

Is this all right?

No, sir.

This is just a hand-shake photograph.

He's leading to a grand corporation.

Okay.

I'd like to give him the money, sir.

Is he married?

what is mcgregor going up to kakao right he may be there now because he was going over and eating the tongue and then we got the plan to go when i suppose when i get back in the corner yeah

Well, I intend to go to California.

Yes, sir.

Right.

Enjoyed it.

Say, listen, let's go over here.

You think you can handle a think tank now if you're having the OSB?

We're going to try and change them.

Are you?

It needs a little more attention for security and matters like that.

Oh, I hear you.

Have you been looking around before?

Oh, they have a lot to do.

A lot of the video trustees went through a search process and looked through a lot of people.

Somehow they settled here.

I happen to have had a background here with George in the OSB working on non-defense areas.

Right.

And before that, I've been in the defense department.

And so...

I can't say that reached across Asia.

Right.

What do you have to say about that?

Well, there is...

They're not detected?

No.

We lived in Monterey for two years.

Monterey.

Right here.

Yeah.

Now you lived here in San Juan?

San Juan.

San Juan, yeah.

Well, you probably lived in the city of Palisades, probably, around in that area.

They don't look good in San Juan.

Right?

And the question is, they look good in Palisades.

Yeah, well, that's that church.

That's all the way in the country.

My children are going to go to John Russell's church.

This is kind of crazy.

Right.

If you can send them to public schools, there are no problems.

All right.

You've got money left.

That's the best thing we have.

It's more expensive than the compensation.

You already have compensation.

You've got compensation.

No, I didn't.

I've got things I gave to my dad.

Thank you.

For your wife, that's a little compact.

Thank you.

She had to give it to somebody else.

Do you have money?

I wish you the best out there.

It's a great pleasure to be here.

Well, the work is important, sure, but you'll be tied into it in that way.

Thank you very much.

Don't write again, because I'm on ice.

No, you want to leave?

George didn't want to go back to Chicago.

He's done.

Yeah, no problem.

That's what he is.

We've made a peace offer.

It may answer the massive invasion of the South.

People say that it will jeopardize the summit.

We're not saying anything about this topic.

We're, of course, in total contact with the Russians.

And we're very tough on them.

I'm not going to go to the summit.

I'm going to get down.

So we're going to go further.

We may blockade at the end of the week.

They only mean by winning in our meeting, not losing.

Now, what else can you do?

Now, if we're like Johnson, where we have a half a million men out there, and we were protecting the ground, that'd be different.

But, George, this is the poor, damn little South Vietnamese who aren't very good fighters, fighting a massive invasion by 15 North Vietnamese divisions, and the United States just can't run out there.

What do you think about it?

That's a terrible agreement, which is why I thought I was going to say that.

Well, we'll get a freedom of paper here.

We can't because the paper's loaded and wrong.

Yeah, but you tell, oh, is he in the bathroom now?

Is the Western Gate the original?

Yeah, he said, well, look, is that the more, they left more Russia, they should have left.

It would be bad if he took that election off.

Yes.

No, just tell him that this meeting shouldn't take that long.

Let me see.

I have a leader at 1230, so I must be providing this before I leave.

I understand.

Bill has done very well, Mr. President.

I've been thinking, but I don't... What's the purpose of your conversation this time?

Well, it's to get to Jerry Best's message.

Yes.

And first to keep the...

I'm not finished yet, Mr. President.

I don't want you to offer this, even suggest that there's a chance that we might go on this interim idea that an exchange for a... Let me tell you the weakness of that.

I've written it out here.

The weakness of that, if you hate to report it, is that it sees it tactically in the short run, but does not adequately look at, in my opinion, at the long run, the risks.

That short run would be a great gesture that would punish our critics very, very heavily.

It would get them to withdraw from my court across the PMC, and we would give up the bombing of North Vietnam, and there would be some reduction in fighting, and we would go back to the common students.

All right.

The difficulty is that the enemy's capability still to launch significant offensive action

which is there, that, you know, no matter how much time you've got, the difficulty is, too, that the pressure on the Russians is enormously lifted as far as this confrontation is concerned.

Oh, sure, maybe we'll go to Moscow and create an assault and a lot of other things.

But the point that I make is that, having taken the heat that we have already taken for escalation, I think what we have to do is to escalate all the way.

Unless, and what I'm saying is that I think the position you're going to have to be in, and Moscow is not the one, of being willing to back down.

In other words, let us sell, let us sell, let them sell to us talks for holding the bombing, which is what this really gets down to.

After all, they invade, that's true.

We bomb, that's true.

But when you finally get down to it, we're giving up the bombing, and we go back to talks.

And the pressure in the Russians is not going to be very great.

And my view is, what I really want to caution you with, Dabrina, it's going to be, it's going to have to be tougher than that Henry.

Because right now, the time, you can't let the time flee by.

And we have to have the blockade.

I don't give a goddamn about the election, but blockade those sons of bitches and start them out.

And that's what we're going to do.

I'd rather do that than have any talks going on this summer.

Talks this summer aren't going to help us.

You have to make the statement, Mr. President.

First of all, I agree with you that nothing should be said about the interim solution to the Russians now.

That should be the result of a stalemate.

And I'm not going to make any proposition to the President now.

In fact, it should be said in Moscow, if it's said anywhere.

But if I may make this suggestion, Mr. President,

If we convince the Russians that they are asking something that they cannot with the best will in the world deliver, then we may force them into brutal preemptive action to bring you down this year.

That may be their only hope.

Well, if they think they can bring you down, I'm just giving you the case for the other side, then all they have to do is endure six months of a blockade.

That they can probably do.

So, that interim solution has this advantage, Mr. President.

First, it will be seen as a clear defeat for them.

I know it's temporary.

Secondly, it gets us through the Russian summit.

After all, the reason you can do this now is because of the China summit.

And it's just awfully hard to paint you into the position of a war monk.

It gets us through the Russian summit with some notable successes.

We can build into the Russian summit a lot of things like a Middle East settlement that we have to deliver next year, which shall be just as reluctant to break next year.

Then, Mr. President, after your elections, I'd go

all out with the North Vietnamese.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Part of this deal would have to be

a reduction in Soviet deliveries and a guarantee that there would be no offensives this year, all of this year.

We are not talking about now.

We get that fine.

We are talking about the rest of...

I don't mind having a little fight out there.

No, no.

Oh, Mr. President, if we can only get this offensive called off with no promise about July, nor can we accept that goes further.

We cannot accept a Hanoi promise either.

We have to get a Soviet public assurance

Now, then this would also change the negotiating position, because then, I believe, Mr. President, Hanoi would feel that by its own actions, that maybe you'll be brought down, but you cannot be brought down by Hanoi's actions.

Therefore, it is probable that you'd be president after November.

That having acted this violently, now there's no telling what you will do in November.

And... No, their gamble is that they can have the war going on and they'll still have the POWs on the front line.

And under those certain chances, the possibility of our surviving the election is very, very low.

Do you see my point?

I think they're pulled off this attack now.

They, particularly if they get ground down, or as they do every day.

This deal couldn't happen before May 5th to 10th anyway.

in which case much of their offensive would have broken its back anyhow.

So I think that for you to do the reason a blockade will work is if you can endure it.

If they think they need only to wait six months, they might just stick it out until the end.

But this is what worries me.

about the blockade, Mr. President.

And you remember, I had some leading towards it in 69.

You weren't postured well diplomatically to do it in 69.

And I strongly support it.

You're not doing it.

But this is the reason why I think an interim solution in which...

But we should throw in the prisoners anyway.

Haig has just come back.

I was going to come in to see you.

I've come with a report from military region one that is extraordinarily optimistic.

He says calm, confident, professional.

He went around to the divisions and he said, and he says three is still tough, but he thinks every day that passes by may mean that the enemy has shot his wad.

It's, again, very quiet today.

Are they bombing, or are we bombing enough?

That's my point.

Mr. President, they're bombing.

I mean, the Hague report indicated that poor Abrams had taken all the carrier aircraft up here to support the bombing of the North.

Well, God damn it, we've got to get those stories going down somewhere.

Is this Hague's report here?

I don't know what my idiot spell wrote.

No, he didn't.

Yeah, let me.

It's on the page first.

Yeah, I see it.

No, that is not true.

That is not what this memo said.

This is a poor summary.

What he said was that one carrier has...

But those planes then expand their armaments in the north.

And, for example, when they hit in the northern area, that means they didn't hit around Wynn.

So...

Yesterday, with the strikes going on in the north, they flew more Saudis in all of South Vietnam than they did at the highest point before this offensive started.

They flew 500 Saudis in South Vietnam.

Now they can get up to 900.

And they can go to 900 in the south.

And the weather should calm down.

Do they know that if there's any movement or, like in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in,

Actually, I think, Mr. President, we are on the ground.

The situation is better than we could have dreamt two weeks ago.

I did not think that the South Vietnamese could withstand an offensive without losing any provincial capital in the first couple of weeks.

This is not like Laos.

They're not running.

There are no newspaper stories of these guys panicking.

They are seen to be defending themselves.

And I do not think the position is so weak.

And I think it must have a shattering impact on the North Vietnamese.

It's basically in our interest to keep this offensive going for a while and grind them down.

I know.

And whether it goes or not, we're going to grind them down.

That's right.

But I frankly believe, Mr. President, that your enormous skill has been that you have been extraordinarily tough, that if you walked up to all the tough ones, but at the same time maintained a peace posture so that they couldn't put you into the positions of just chopping away at you.

The reason the people trust you is because they know you've done everything.

And therefore, all things considered, I think it is in our interest

not to get the Russian summit knocked off as long as we can do it while preserving our essential integrity in Vietnam.

That is the major thing.

And if this Moscow meeting does not work at all... Or maybe we'll blockade in September, do you mean?

No.

I would think if the Moscow meeting doesn't work, then I think we should... No, if I mean mine doesn't work, then you might want to go to a blockade.

That's right.

We certainly should keep the positive that you will go to a blockade.

I think we've really got their attention.

That's for sure.

But I...

I appreciate what he's worked on in that respect.

Isn't it funny to have that little asshole come in here, this Polish ambassador, he'd not be a strong man, but for him to come in here this day, it's funny.

They may knock it off, but I don't mind that.

The Russians may knock it off, but the Poles, they'll do it only if the Russians do it.

I don't think the Russians will right away.

I think we got bit up.

Yes, sir.

I can't tell.

I'm too afraid to talk about knock-off now.

Better not.

Because if you get any deal with this, remember, I'll move first.

But, Mr. President, for me to be deceived in Moscow, please tell me.

I agree.

I mean, I thought it was unbelievable.

Well, of course, some of the papers this morning were saying that the Russian leaders were out of town for the weekend, and that's why they didn't react to the bombing.

I don't know.

They don't.

We got the expression of message.

They just don't know anything.

In our papers.

Thank God.

And they'll not see me.

Right.

You can get a second round now.

He's finished his search for me.

Would you like McGregor to ride up with you until he needs to ride back?

Well, I'll take McGregor.

All right, sir.

I'll decide what I do on the way back.