Nixon, Kissinger & Trampczynski on Poland and US-Soviet Relations

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I don't want this.

Are we supposed to announce the date that we're going to move on?

I don't want to announce and then have these little assholes pull the plug on us and cancel it.

They won't pull the plug independent of Moscow.

Whatever they do will be .

One thing that .

I remember what happened to you, too.

You remember, too.

But I was here.

And I know what happened.

And I know how embarrassing it was for us now.

And we have not.

We've got to play Moscow very carefully.

If we ever get a feeling they're going to break off the summit, we're going to break it off first.

No question.

We have got to do it.

See?

No question.

Close to the bridge.

So that's it.

Joe Grant called.

They're spooked.

He's not at all sure of himself.

He says he notices that the Russians are very modest in their response.

He said, do you guys know what you're doing?

I said, all right.

He said, why are you, he said, why didn't you, I don't know, it would be important.

Ambassador, how are you?

Welcome.

Hello.

Ambassador, they got the picture of us, which we've already got on the screen.

Now it will stand here like this.

I want to have one of you holding the message.

He's got a message for me.

All right.

Now let's get one of Dr. Fisher in, too.

He used to go to Warsaw, too.

You've never been to Warsaw, have you?

No one?

He told me that once.

I was once in Warsaw.

Oh, yeah?

1964.

So now I've come around, and I've been through so far.

I appreciate that very much.

And the prime minister, this is the prime minister.

This is the prime minister.

He's English.

Oh, yeah.

Well, so now, so now.

Let me say, my visit last time to Poland, so much has happened because of Mr. Kamelko.

Is he still living?

But he's a very old man now.

He would perhaps be... Of course, he's not too old, you know.

He's about sixty-seven, sixty-eight.

Oh, he's not too old.

So am I old.

I thought, yeah, that's why.

Yes, because the yellow had some problems with him.

He was a strong man.

I remember him.

He was very strong.

I thought that he was tougher than Khrushchev.

I remember him.

Very strong people, especially for the part of Poland, for the southeast part of Poland.

It's a very beautiful letter.

Very nice, very nice.

And you say, I'll show you that, but I mean, it's difficult for him not to be one time here in the United States.

Oh, was he?

Yes, he was here.

Was he an ambassador?

No, no, he was a deputy prime minister.

He was a first minister.

Well, we will look forward to coming.

As you know, as I have said and you are aware, we have differences in types of government, differences about certain areas of the world.

But the United States

seeks good relations with all countries.

We particularly have a reason to seek good relations with Poland, because there's so many Polish-American.

And they all want to have good relations.

One-third of the Polish nation is in the United States.

One-third.

Right.

Yes.

In fact, that's .

And we want to do that.

And it's not having full regard for your right to have any independent policy.

And for us, you have an independent policy.

hand work together, and that's what we try to seek in these.

That's what I was trying to do in China, and that's what I will be doing in the Soviet Union, and that's what we'll be doing in Poland.

But with Poland, I will go with a little different feeling, because I know so many Polish friends in Chicago, and Cleveland, and Pittsburgh, and New York, and California, and they say, you've got to go to Warsaw.

Philadelphia, yeah.

You know, they get the cardio, but I'm going to be in Philadelphia as a Polish.

You know that?

The Catholic Cardinal in Philadelphia, he's the only Buddhist to put the sign.

Is that right?

He speaks pretty good Polish, I don't think.

He told me that when I spoke there, he said, he considered himself the second-ranked Pole.

He's very good Polish.

Where will we stay there, Mr. President?

Will we stay at the guest house?

Hasn't been worked out yet, Mr. President.

Whatever they want.

The Polish government has requested that we inform them of the number of the parties so that they can make a specific proposal.

I think it's the next year.

Yes, and Black Station will be visiting there on this.

Well, I want to do whatever their government wants.

You know what I mean?

And to meet their conditions.

I think after we have given the Polish government the composition of our party, they seem very confident that they could work that far.

I hope so.

I thought it was a short time, only one day.

Well, you see, the difficulty is we have such a long visit to Russia that I'm spending one day in Iran.

I had to cut the show short.

She's not very happy about it, she understands.

But I said, look, I've got to go to Poland.

But we'll fill the day.

And I want to be sure to see all the officials.

And you can do a lot of them today, too.

You can do a lot.

You can't do much sightseeing.

Mrs. Mixon, I think Mrs. Mixon would like to give me something out of here.

Well, I think it's the best thing, Mr.

Ambassador, for me.

She likes to visit those things that relate to people, like schools, hospitals, you know, the people's homes, cultural, but more people rather than things.

But whatever he's worked out is fine.

I can say one thing that might be a nice thing, just a small matter of experience.

In 1959, I heard the Postman Boys Choir.

And they came and sang here in the White House last year.

And if they are still there, maybe they might hear them again.

I don't know.

Or some other choir.

I don't care.

But whatever you want.

Well, it's the best.

It's the best course we have today here in 1959.

Is your town Warsaw, or do you live in another part?

I live in Warsaw, but I'm from Bosnia.

So it's the western part of Poland.

Oh, I see.

Yeah.

It's a Thursday, Saturday, Wednesday, second day.

It's June, so Thursday is one of the...

When I came to Poland, Mr. President, in 1964, I had had a lot of Polish students, and they heard that I was in Poland, and about eight of them came from as far away as Krakow,

without telling me, and just sat down in the lobby in Carolina, and I told them.

I was really petrified because they didn't know whether I could ever see them.

If you have any of your students there now, I'd like to shake their hand.

Oh, yes.

I'm very proud of them.

I studied in Panama for six months.

When?

In 38.

Yes, I had something to do with mine.

How about that trip?

What year?

I was a young lawyer then.

Did you like Berkeley?

It's a great, great place.

Yes, I remember Berkeley from the pre-war times.

We had a small, beautiful university.

Beautiful.

It saved the game and everything.

But today I saw Berkeley so big about six or seven years ago.

And you live back?

Back.

It's a colossal university.

Someday, someday you'll have to show, and I'd like to hear you.

Well, we look forward to visiting your country, and I can assure you that we will

We both, as I said, we want the visit to be one that will show the friendship between our two peoples, recognizing the differences that our governments may have, but trying to find areas of agreement, respecting each other.

That's the only basis for a new east-west relationship.

We understand that very much.

And I think if we can get that kind of understanding with your government, that we can find parallel areas to work together.

I'm sure, particularly in the economic field, that it will be very fruitful.

It can be self-sustaining.

At least help.

It will help some of us.

No problem.

It can never be solved.

You can only start.

As an economist, you know that it can never be solved.

You can only problem.

You just start.

I want to see the press people.

I don't think Ron has it at the office, but Mr. Fred is a very good example.

You were in Hanoi, and you saw, you read the paper, that 48 hours after the bombing of Haifa, the Polish ambassador sent such a woman, brought such a woman to Texas.

Of course, this invitation was written before the bombing, you know.

But he delivered it 48 hours after.

You think they had that invitation?

Oh, yes.

They probably went to the satellite hill before sending it.

It means two things.

It means the Russians didn't stop them from sending it.

and that they delivered it.

Now, I also, as far as our press is concerned, this announcement, what are they going to say?

The communists are very mad at you?

Is that what you're going to watch the press about?

No, I want to McClasky, Henkin, and Ziegler meet every morning, and I want to petition them.

But gladly we.

And then I have a last-second meeting.

And then I have the freedom coming in, but that will be only 15 minutes.

When is your Western meeting?

Now at 11.

But be sure to take the very strong, very line in kicking the Democrats.

Now, they've got to be kicked for them, the bases.

That why, in this period, are they constantly

the invaders of sort of South Vietnam, rather than the Southian major defending their homeland.

I really want to crack it.

Let's get a little bit of the treason business out there.

Okay.

Nixon, Kissinger & Trampczynski on Poland and US-Soviet Relations

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on April 17, 1972

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