Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 709 › Conversation 709-016

Nixon, Rice & Weinberger on Rand Corporation and Vietnam War

Monday, April 17, 1972 · 12:02 PM–12:06 PM ET · Oval Office · 5 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Rice, Donald B.; Weinberger, Caspar W. ("Cap"); Shultz, George P.; Bull, Stephen B.; White House photographerConversation709-016 on Tape 709 (tape position 03:24:18–03:30:36)StartMonday, April 17, 1972 at 12:02 PMEndMonday, April 17, 1972 at 12:06 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 709-016 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon met with Donald B. Rice, Caspar Weinberger, and George Shultz to discuss Rice's transition to a new position at the Rand Corporation. Following the personnel discussion, Nixon turned to the ongoing North Vietnamese invasion of South Vietnam, expressing resolve despite the potential impact on his upcoming Soviet summit. He emphasized a firm stance regarding potential retaliatory actions, including a blockade of Hanoi and Haiphong, while criticizing press coverage of the conflict.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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All right, all right, all right.
Well, I understand you're going to California?
Yes, sir.
All right, all right, sir.
I'm sure everyone's going to be in here.
That's right.
We'll be enjoying it.
Say, listen, that's it.
That's it.
That's it over here.
All right.
All right.
Do you think you can handle a think tank now if you're having the OSB?
We're going to try and change some of this.
Are you?
It needs a little more attention for security.
Have you been with the ground before ?
Well, the committee of trustees went through a search process that looked through a lot of people, and somehow they settled here.
I happen to have had a background here with George and working on areas.
Right.
And before that, .
They're not a tech group.
No, we lived in Monterey for two years.
Monterey, yeah.
Now you lived here in Santa Monica?
Santa Monica.
Santa Monica.
Santa Monica.
Well, you probably lived in the city of Palisades, probably around in that area.
Yeah, we lived in the city of Palisades.
Yeah, well, that's that church.
That's all the country.
If you can send him to public school, there are no problems.
All right.
He's losing everything.
You've got money left.
That's the best thing we have.
It's more expensive than the compensation.
You already have compensation.
You've got compensation.
Well, I did a couple things I did for my dad.
Thank you.
For your wife, that's a little compact.
Thank you.
She had to give it to somebody else.
You have one of these little things.
Your dad had one of these.
I do have one of these.
I wish you the best out there.
It's a great place to live.
I miss the excitement here.
Yes, indeed.
I hope the work gets supported.
Well, the work gets supported, sure.
But we will be kind to each other that way.
Thank you very much.
Don't write it down.
No, you want to leave.
George doesn't want to go back to Chicago.
He's done.
Yeah, no problem.
Sometimes you have just choices.
You're always drawing hundreds of thousands of people.
made a peace offer and my answer of the massive invasion of the south and so on.
People say we're going to jeopardize the summit.
We're not saying anything about this topic.
We're in total contact with the Russians.
And we're very tough on them.
I'm not going to go to the summit.
We may blockade at the end of the week.
I mean, by winning an army, not losing it.
Now, what else can you do?
Now, if we're like Johnson, where we have a half a million men out there, and we were protecting the ground, that'd be different.
But, George, this is the poor, damn little South Vietnamese who aren't very good fighters, fighting a massive invasion by 15 North Vietnamese divisions, and the United States just can't run out there.
I'm joking.
I just held it very well.
We can't because the papers are already wrong about this situation.
They're totally wrong about it now.
Or total.
Okay.

NARA Description

On April 17, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Donald B. Rice, Caspar W. ("Cap") Weinberger, George P. Shultz, Stephen B. Bull, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:02 pm to 12:06 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 709-016 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 709-16

Date: April 17, 1972
Time: 12:02 pm - 12:06 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Donald B. Rice, Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger and George P. Shultz;
Stephen B. Bull and the White House photographer were present at the beginning of the meeting.

     Rice's next job
           -Locaiton

     Photographs

     Rand Corporation
          -Rice's job
          -Experience
                -Office of Management and Budget [OMB]
                      -Shultz
                -Press office
          -Location
                -Work
                -Home
                      -Rice's family

     Presidential gifts
           -Money clip
                -Cuff links
           -Wife
                -Compact
           -Golf balls

     Best wishes

Rice and Weinberger left at 12:05 pm.

     Vietnam
          -Bombing of Hanoi and Haiphong
          -Troop withdrawals
          -Negotiations
               -US peace offers
               -US bombing
                     -Soviet Summit
                          -Possible cancellation
                           -Toughness
           -Blockade
                -Implementation
           -North Vietnamese invasion
                -Number of divisions
                      -Lyndon B. Johnson's Administration
                -US response
                      -Defense of South Vietnam
                           -Odds
                -Ground forces
                -Press reports
                      -US Marines

Shultz left at 12:06 pm.

Also recorded on April 17, 1972

  • 023-001 11:35 AM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and unknown person(s) talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 11:35 am and 11:50 am.
  • 709-017 12:06 PM · 24 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:06 pm and 12:15 pm.
  • 709-018 12:06 PM · 35 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:06 pm and 12:15 pm.
  • 709-019 12:15 PM · 13 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:15 pm to 12:28 pm.
  • 023-003 12:28 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 12:28 pm.
  • 023-004 12:28 PM · 25 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 12:28 pm and 12:31 pm.
  • 709-020 12:28 PM · 43 sec — President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, and the White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:28 pm and 12:31 pm.
  • 709-021 12:28 PM · 16 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:28 pm and 12:31 pm.

All 48 conversations from April 17, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 709-016, April 17, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/709-016 (accessed October 12, 2026).