{"conversationCode":"709-016","tapeNumber":709,"conversationNumber":16,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-709-016","startDateTime":"1972-04-17T17:02:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-04-17T17:06:00.000Z","startDate":"17-Apr-1972","startTime":"12:02 PM","endDate":"17-Apr-1972","endTime":"12:06 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Rice, Donald B.; Weinberger, Caspar W. (\"Cap\"); Shultz, George P.; Bull, Stephen B.; White House photographer;","description":"On April 17, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Donald B. Rice, Caspar W. (\"Cap\") Weinberger, George P. Shultz, Stephen B. Bull, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:02 pm to 12:06 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 709-016 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"OVAL","recordingDevice":"Oval Office","latitudeEstimated":38.8974,"longitudeEstimated":-77.0374,"chronCode":3,"chronRelease":"Third Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"28-Feb-2002","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 709-16\n\nDate: April 17, 1972\nTime: 12:02 pm - 12:06 pm\nLocation: Oval Office\n\nThe President met with Donald B. Rice, Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger and George P. Shultz;\nStephen B. Bull and the White House photographer were present at the beginning of the meeting.\n\n     Rice's next job\n           -Locaiton\n\n     Photographs\n\n     Rand Corporation\n          -Rice's job\n          -Experience\n                -Office of Management and Budget [OMB]\n                      -Shultz\n                -Press office\n          -Location\n                -Work\n                -Home\n                      -Rice's family\n\n     Presidential gifts\n           -Money clip\n                -Cuff links\n           -Wife\n                -Compact\n           -Golf balls\n\n     Best wishes\n\nRice and Weinberger left at 12:05 pm.\n\n     Vietnam\n          -Bombing of Hanoi and Haiphong\n          -Troop withdrawals\n          -Negotiations\n               -US peace offers\n               -US bombing\n                     -Soviet Summit\n                          -Possible cancellation\n\f                           -Toughness\n           -Blockade\n                -Implementation\n           -North Vietnamese invasion\n                -Number of divisions\n                      -Lyndon B. Johnson's Administration\n                -US response\n                      -Defense of South Vietnam\n                           -Odds\n                -Ground forces\n                -Press reports\n                      -US Marines\n\nShultz left at 12:06 pm.","filename":["709-016.mp3"],"tapeStart":"03:24:18","tapeEnd":"03:30:36","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Rice, Donald B.","Weinberger, Caspar W. (\"Cap\")","Shultz, George P.","Bull, Stephen B.","White House photographer"],"prevCode":"709-015","nextCode":"709-017","transcript":[{"start":2.51,"end":3.81,"text":"All right, all right, all right."},{"start":4.49,"end":6.03,"text":"Well, I understand you're going to California?"},{"start":6.05,"end":6.65,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":6.73,"end":7.97,"text":"All right, all right, sir."},{"start":7.99,"end":11.99,"text":"I'm sure everyone's going to be in here."},{"start":13.07,"end":13.39,"text":"That's right."},{"start":13.41,"end":14.09,"text":"We'll be enjoying it."},{"start":14.11,"end":14.79,"text":"Say, listen, that's it."},{"start":14.85,"end":15.09,"text":"That's it."},{"start":15.15,"end":15.79,"text":"That's it over here."},{"start":15.81,"end":16.11,"text":"All right."},{"start":16.17,"end":16.49,"text":"All right."},{"start":22.22,"end":24.96,"text":"Do you think you can handle a think tank now if you're having the OSB?"},{"start":24.98,"end":26.24,"text":"We're going to try and change some of this."},{"start":26.4,"end":27.4,"text":"Are you?"},{"start":27.44,"end":30.86,"text":"It needs a little more attention for security."},{"start":37.49,"end":39.61,"text":"Have you been with the ground before ?"},{"start":40.13,"end":51.54,"text":"Well, the committee of trustees went through a search process that looked through a lot of people, and somehow they settled here."},{"start":51.58,"end":60.5,"text":"I happen to have had a background here with George and working on areas."},{"start":60.7,"end":60.96,"text":"Right."},{"start":60.98,"end":61.7,"text":"And before that, ."},{"start":66.26,"end":67.5,"text":"They're not a tech group."},{"start":67.56,"end":73.27,"text":"No, we lived in Monterey for two years."},{"start":73.29,"end":73.69,"text":"Monterey, yeah."},{"start":73.75,"end":76.13,"text":"Now you lived here in Santa Monica?"},{"start":76.15,"end":77.11,"text":"Santa Monica."},{"start":77.13,"end":78.63,"text":"Santa Monica."},{"start":78.65,"end":79.45,"text":"Santa Monica."},{"start":79.49,"end":86.33,"text":"Well, you probably lived in the city of Palisades, probably around in that area."},{"start":86.45,"end":88.66,"text":"Yeah, we lived in the city of Palisades."},{"start":88.69,"end":89.88,"text":"Yeah, well, that's that church."},{"start":90.12,"end":91.86,"text":"That's all the country."},{"start":97.22,"end":102.59,"text":"If you can send him to public school, there are no problems."},{"start":102.71,"end":103.25,"text":"All right."},{"start":103.31,"end":105.15,"text":"He's losing everything."},{"start":121.78,"end":122.89,"text":"You've got money left."},{"start":122.98,"end":124.41,"text":"That's the best thing we have."},{"start":124.87,"end":126.77,"text":"It's more expensive than the compensation."},{"start":126.79,"end":127.67,"text":"You already have compensation."},{"start":127.73,"end":128.43,"text":"You've got compensation."},{"start":128.49,"end":130.15,"text":"Well, I did a couple things I did for my dad."},{"start":130.31,"end":130.97,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":131.01,"end":139.62,"text":"For your wife, that's a little compact."},{"start":140.04,"end":140.26,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":140.28,"end":141.52,"text":"She had to give it to somebody else."},{"start":142.24,"end":146.18,"text":"You have one of these little things."},{"start":146.82,"end":149.08,"text":"Your dad had one of these."},{"start":149.1,"end":150.46,"text":"I do have one of these."},{"start":151.72,"end":155.2,"text":"I wish you the best out there."},{"start":155.22,"end":156.52,"text":"It's a great place to live."},{"start":156.56,"end":158.66,"text":"I miss the excitement here."},{"start":159.62,"end":160.14,"text":"Yes, indeed."},{"start":160.26,"end":161.92,"text":"I hope the work gets supported."},{"start":161.96,"end":165.49,"text":"Well, the work gets supported, sure."},{"start":165.59,"end":175.55,"text":"But we will be kind to each other that way."},{"start":175.59,"end":177.63,"text":"Thank you very much."},{"start":181.78,"end":183.16,"text":"Don't write it down."},{"start":183.54,"end":184.96,"text":"No, you want to leave."},{"start":185.04,"end":187.14,"text":"George doesn't want to go back to Chicago."},{"start":187.38,"end":188.08,"text":"He's done."},{"start":188.1,"end":188.78,"text":"Yeah, no problem."},{"start":188.8,"end":190.48,"text":"Sometimes you have just choices."},{"start":190.66,"end":204.51,"text":"You're always drawing hundreds of thousands of people."},{"start":211.78,"end":217.68,"text":"made a peace offer and my answer of the massive invasion of the south and so on."},{"start":217.74,"end":219.76,"text":"People say we're going to jeopardize the summit."},{"start":220.94,"end":224.85,"text":"We're not saying anything about this topic."},{"start":225.19,"end":229.23,"text":"We're in total contact with the Russians."},{"start":229.31,"end":234.15,"text":"And we're very tough on them."},{"start":234.19,"end":236.75,"text":"I'm not going to go to the summit."},{"start":236.78,"end":240.92,"text":"We may blockade at the end of the week."},{"start":242.26,"end":244.74,"text":"I mean, by winning an army, not losing it."},{"start":244.8,"end":246.56,"text":"Now, what else can you do?"},{"start":247.12,"end":254.59,"text":"Now, if we're like Johnson, where we have a half a million men out there, and we were protecting the ground, that'd be different."},{"start":254.71,"end":266.06,"text":"But, George, this is the poor, damn little South Vietnamese who aren't very good fighters, fighting a massive invasion by 15 North Vietnamese divisions, and the United States just can't run out there."},{"start":266.1,"end":266.6,"text":"I'm joking."},{"start":266.64,"end":268.24,"text":"I just held it very well."},{"start":271.21,"end":278.18,"text":"We can't because the papers are already wrong about this situation."},{"start":278.2,"end":284.09,"text":"They're totally wrong about it now."},{"start":284.37,"end":286.13,"text":"Or total."},{"start":286.35,"end":286.69,"text":"Okay."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon met with Donald B. Rice, Caspar Weinberger, and George Shultz to discuss Rice's transition to a new position at the Rand Corporation. Following the personnel discussion, Nixon turned to the ongoing North Vietnamese invasion of South Vietnam, expressing resolve despite the potential impact on his upcoming Soviet summit. He emphasized a firm stance regarding potential retaliatory actions, including a blockade of Hanoi and Haiphong, while criticizing press coverage of the conflict.","topics":["Donald B. Rice","Rand Corporation","Vietnam War","Soviet Summit","Military strategy","Presidential personnel"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-07T03:02:26.508Z"},"topicSlugs":["donald-b-rice","rand-corporation","vietnam-war","soviet-summit","military-strategy","presidential-personnel"],"audioDurationSec":292,"audioFiles":[{"file":"709-016.mp3","bytes":11668163,"durationSec":291.57,"bitrate":320149,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:55.376Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:44:20.836Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/709-016.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/709-016","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/709/conversation-709-016","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}