Easy NixonAbout

Conversation: 713-001

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Start Date: 19-Apr-1972 3:27 PM

End Date: 19-Apr-1972 5:01 PM

Participants:

Nixon, Richard M. (President)Kissinger, Henry A.White House operatorBuchanan, Patrick J.[Unknown person(s)]Bull, Stephen B.Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob")

Recording Device: Oval Office

Full Tape Conversation Start Time: 00:00:23

Full Tape Conversation End Time: 01:26:32

713a.mp3

NARA Description:

On April 19, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, White House operator, Patrick J. Buchanan, unknown person(s), Stephen B. Bull, and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:27 pm to 5:01 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 713-001 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid:

Conversation No. 713-1

Date: April 19, 1972
Time: 3:27 pm - 5:01 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Henry A. Kissinger; the recording began at an unknown time while the
meeting was in progress.

     Vietnam
          -Support for bombing
               -Mayor of Alexandria, Louisiana [C. Edward Karst]
                     -Change of political parties
                          -Significance
                                -Encouragement of hawkish sentiment
          -Bombing
               -Negotiations
                     -Conditions for cessation of bombing
                          -Kissinger’s position
               -The President’s press conference
                     -Announcement
                          -Timing with Kissinger’s Moscow trip
                                -Meeting with Andrei A. Gromyko

     US-Soviet Union relations
         -Kissinger’s Moscow trip
               -Meeting with Leonid I. Brezhnev
                    -Gromyko
         -Soviet summit
               -Possible cancellation
         -Kissinger’s Moscow trip
               -Continuation of US bombing in Vietnam
                    -Conversation with Anatoliy F. Dobrynin
                    -Escalation of attacks
                          -Kissinger’s promise
                                -Hanoi and Haiphong

     Vietnam
          -US bombing
               -Limits
               -Targets
                    -Unknown port
                                    2

               NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                           Tape Subject Log
                              (rev. 7/07)



                  -Purpose
                  -Timing of attacks
                        -Signals to Soviet Union and North Vietnam
           -Recommendations
                  -Adm. Thomas H. Moorer
                  -Gen. Creighton W. Abrams, Jr.
                  -Melvin R. Laird
                  -[David] Kenneth Rush
     -Increase
           -Targets
                  -Petroleum, oil, and lubricants [POL] dumps
-Negotiations
     -North Vietnamese military position
     -Blockade
           -Laird and Moorer
     -US strategy
           -Elements of success
                  -The President’s previous success playing poker
     -North Vietnamese message
           -US response
     -The President’s forthcoming announcement
           -Timing
     -Kissinger’s Moscow trip
           -Possible cable
           -Communications with White House
                  -Jacob D. Beam
           -The President’s announcement
                  -Plenary session
                  -Timing
                  -Troop levels
                        -Timing
-Troop level
     -The President’s announcement
           -Numbers
     -Reduction of ceiling
     -The President’s announcement
           -Timing
-Kissinger’s trip to Moscow
     -Explanation for public
           -Soviet summit
           -Vietnam
           -Possible misinterpretation
                                   3

               NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                           Tape Subject Log
                              (rev. 7/07)



                 -Bombing
                 -Meeting with Le Duc Tho
           -Vietnam as topic
    -Timing with Le Duc Tho visit
-Negotiations
    -Lt. Gen. Vernon A. Walters
           -Participation
           -Central Intelligence Agency [CIA] position
           -Participation
                 -Meetings with North Vietnam
-Bombing
    -Protests
           -Ivy League presidents
                 -Kissinger's acquaintance
                       -Derek C. Bok of Harvard
                             -Wife [Sissela (Myrdal) Bok]
                                   -Political leanings
                                   -Father [Gunnar K. Myrdal]
                                   -Brother [Jan Myrdal]
                       -William J. McGill
                             -Kissinger’s view
                       -Kingman Brewster
                             -Bok
                 -Gerald L. Warren
                       -Visit to Columbia University
                             -Possible condemnation of North Vietnam’s invasion
                 -Criticism
                 -Opposition to the President
                       -Intransigence
                             -Kissinger’s view
                             -The President’s view
                             -Edward M. Kennedy
                 -Influence from students
                 -Forthcoming counterattack
                       -Vice President Spiro T. Agnew
    -Kissinger’s meeting with Soviets
           -Bombign of Hanoi and Haiphong
           -Explanation to public
                 -Responsibility for calling the meeting
           -Significance
                 -Compared with scenario involving Iran
           -People’s Republic of China [PRC]
                                              4

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 7/07)



         -Negotiations
             -North Vietnamese concessions
                    -Prisoners of war [POWs]
                          -Release
                          -US proposals
                          -Humanitarian gestures
             -Possible failure
         -Bombing
             -Impact on North Vietnam
                    -The President’s view
             -Necessity
                    -Other possible Presidents
                    -John B. Connally
                    -Ronald W. Reagan
                    -Agnew
                          -Compared with Lyndon B. Johnson
             -US policy
                    -Impact on North Vietnam
                          -The President’s determination


*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
[National security]
[Duration: 21s ]


VIETNAM


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3

*****************************************************************


               -Protests
                     -Ivy League presidents
                           -Agnew’s forthcoming statement concerning North Vietnamese
                           invasion

    Kissinger's call to Patrick J. Buchanan
                                             5

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 7/07)




The President talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 3:27 and 4:41
pm.

     [Conversation No. 713-1A]

     [See Conversation No. 23-38]

[End of telephone conversation]

     Vietnam
          -Kissinger’s trip to Moscow


*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 49s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5

*****************************************************************


Kissinger talked with Buchanan at an unknown time between 3:27 and 4:41 pm.

     [Conversation No. 713-1B]

     [See Conversation No. 23-39]

An unknown man entered at an unknown time after 3:27 pm and conferred with Kissinger.

The unknown man left at an unknown time before 4:41 pm.

[End of telephone conversation]

     Vietnam
          -US policy
               -Conservatives
               -1972 election
                                              6

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 7/07)



                     -Timing
               -Goals before election
                     -Soviet summit
               -Political risks
               -Goals
                     -Avoidance of defeat
          -North Vietnamese invastion
               -Pre-March 29, 1972
               -Negotiations
                     -Soviets
                     -Terms
                            -Demilitarized Zone [DMZ]
                     -Relationship to bombing
                            -Johnson
          -North Vietnam
               -Negotiations
                     -PRC
                     -Pressure from Soviet Union
               -Invasion
                     -American public opinion
                            -The President’s announcement of Kissinger’s trip
          -US bombing
               -Effectiveness
                     -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
                            -Forthcoming meeting with the President
                                 -Sequoia
               -Public opinion
                     -Press
                            -Hanoi and Haiphong

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 3:27 pm.

     The President's schedule
          -Meeting with W. Kenneth Riland
          -Meeting with Haig
               -Time
               -Sequoia
                      -Record of meeting
               -Arrangements
                      -Rush
                      -Moorer
                      -Laird
                                               7

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 7/07)



                     -Rush
                     -Moorer
                     -William P. Rogers
                -Press coverage
                -Arrangements
                     -Moorer
                -Departure of Sequoia

Bull left at an unknown time before 4:41 pm.

     Kissinger's trip to Soviet Union
          -Rogers
                -Handling
          -Purpose of trip
                -Rogers's reaction
          -Announcement
                -Possible leaks
                       -Dobrynin
                -Timing
                -Discussions with Soviets
                -Possible leaks
                       -Publicity
                            -The President’s view
                -Timing
          -Arrangements
                -Trip to and from Camp David
                       -Kissinger’s schedule
                -Return to US

     Vietnam
          -Settlement
                -Possible time
                     -North Vietnamese invasion
          -Kissinger’s Moscow trip
                -Benefits
                     -Announcement
                            -Timing
                     -Plenary session on Vietnam
                     -Secret talks
                            -Xuan Thuy
                            -Le Duc Tho
                -US bombing
                                       8

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                               Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 7/07)



                -Impact
     -Settlement
           -Likelihood
           -Impact of bombing
     -US bombing
           -Kissinger’s Moscow trip
                -Significance
           -Appearance of US determination
           -Soviet ships to Haiphong
                -Halt
                      -Vladivostock
                      -Mining
           -Kissinger’s Moscow trip
                -Risks
                      -Thanh Hua
                      -Possible result
           -Kissinger’s message to Dobrynin
                -Targets
                      -Avoidance of Hanoi and Haiphong
                      -Thanh Hua

US-Soviet Union relations
    -Individual roles
          -Importance of superpowers
                -PRC and Japan
    -Summit
          -Timing
                -US and Soviet Union compared
          -US policies
    -Past relations
    -The President’s trip to the Soviet Union
          -Meeting place
          -Possible results
                -Kissinger’s message to Soviet leaders
    -Past relations
          -Meetings at Camp David, Vienna and Glassboro, New Jersey
                -The President’s view
          -Brezhnev’s view
                -Yalta
    -Importance of meeting
          -The President’s view
    -The President’s trip to the PRC
                                  9

               NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                          Tape Subject Log
                             (rev. 7/07)



     -Future importance
-Soviet power
-Soviet foreign policy
     -Brezhnev Doctrine
     -The President’s last visit in 1959
           -Problems
                 -Nikita S. Khruschev
                 -Captive Nations Resolution
     -US policy on Eastern Europe
           -Soviet reciprocity
                 -Non-Communist world
-The President’s visit to the Soviet Union
     -Importance
           -Kissinger’s view
           -Impact of agreements
           -The President’s PRC visit
     -Contrast with Glassboro meeting between Johnson and Aleksei N. Kosygin in
     1967
     -Importance
           -Message for Brezhnev
                 -Mutual respect
                 -Chou En-lai and Mao Tse-tung
           -Security of US and Soviet Union
     -Agreements
           -Mutual benefits
           -Importance
           -Effectiveness
           -The President compared with Brezhnev
     -Kissinger’s dealings with Soviets
           -The President
                 -Contrast with John F. Kennedy and Johnson
                        -Political risks
                              -Vietnam
                                     -Advisors’ views
                                     -1972 election
                                     -Public opinion
-PRC
-Agreements
     -The President’s role
           -Liberals
           -Right-wing strength
                 -Vietnam
                                               10

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 7/07)



                                 -Soviets
                           -Arms control
                           -Joseph McCarthy
                           -George C. Wallace
                -Need for Vietnam agreements
          -Trade
                -Most Favored Nation [MFN] status
                      -Likelihood of passage by Congress
                           -Soviet relations with North Vietnam
                -Other agreements
                      -Credits
                      -The President’s talk with Andrei A. Gromyko
                      -Likelihood of Congressional passage
          -Strategic Arms Limitation Talks [SALT]
                -Options
                -Submarines
                      -Moorer
                      -Concessions
                      -Submarine-Launched Ballistic Missiles [SLBMs]
                -Negotiations
                -Conditions
                      -Vietnam
                -Interceptors
                -SLBM
                -US defense budget
                      -George P. Shultz

An unknown woman entered at an unknown time after 3:27 pm.

     The President's schedule
          -Meeting with unknown person

The unknown woman left at an unknown time before 4:41 pm.

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 3:27 pm.

     Kissinger’s schedule
          -Meeting with Riland
                -Arrangements
          -Forthcoming speech

Bull left at an unknown time before 4:41 pm.
                                      11

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                               Tape Subject Log
                                  (rev. 7/07)




US-Soviet Union relations
    -SALT
          -Gerard C. Smith
               -Negotiating stance
               -SLBM
                     -Concessions
          -Anti-Ballistic Missiles[ABMs]
               -US proposals
               -Malmstrom Air Force Base
               -Defense system around Washington, DC
                     -The President’s view
               -SLBM
               -Laird and Smith’s recommendation
               -Agreements
          -Formula of agreement
               -Problems
                     -Laird
                     -Missile sites
                           -Washington and Grand Forks
                           -Construction
                                 -Malmstrom
               -ABM
               -Domestic advantages
               -Domestic
               -Submarines
    -European security
          -Mutual and Balanced Force Reduction [MBFR]
               -Linkage
                     -Desires of US allies
          -North Atlantic Treaty Organization [NATO]
               -Future
                     -The President’s view
          -MBFR
          -Conference
               -Possible announcement at the Soviet summit
    -Vietnam
          -Importance
               -Soviet understanding
          -US bombing
               -Continuation
          -Understandings of 1968
                                            12

                        NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 7/07)



                   -Implementation
                         -US casualties
                         -Bombing
                         -Negotiations
              -North Vietnamese invasion
                   -Soviet pressure to cease
              -Possible settlement
                   -Impact of summit
                   -1972 election
                         -North Vietnamese perceptions of outcome
                               -Polls
              -Negotiations
                   -North Vietnamese willingness
                         -Relation to 1972 election
                               -Polls
                   -Present period
                         -Importance
              -US domestic politics
                   -North Vietnamese perceptions
                         -1968 election
                               -Johnson
                                     -W[illiam] Averell Harriman
                                          -Nguyen Van Thieu
                         -The President’s possible position in polls


*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 10
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 35s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 10

*****************************************************************


    Vietnam
         -The President’s handling
              -Kissinger’s view
         -South Vietnam
                                                 13

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 7/07)



               -Survival
                    -US support
                         -Thieu
                    -Laird
                    -Haig’s report
                         -Military Region Three
          -North Vietnam

     US-Soviet Union relations
         -Kissinger’s meeting with Soviet leaders
               -Brezhnev
               -Thrust of talks

Bull entered at an unknown time after 3:27 pm.

     The President's schedule
          -Meeting with Riland
               -Kissinger
               -Place
                      -Executive Office Building [EOB]
               -Time
               -Riland's meeting with Kissinger
               -Barber
          -Meeting at Camp David
               -Barber
                      -Timing
               -Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon and Tricia Nixon Cox
               -Arrangements

Bull left at an unknown time before 4:41 pm.

          -Call to H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
                -Rogers

The President talked with Haldeman at an unknown time between 3:27 and 4:41 pm.

     [Conversation No. 713-1C]

     The President's schedule
          -Meeting with Haig
          -Haldeman's schedule
               -Meeting with the President
                                                 14

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                          (rev. 7/07)



          -Sequoia cruise
               -Time

     Kissinger's trip to Moscow
          -Trip to Florida

[End of telephone conversation]

An unknown man entered at an unknown time after 3:27 pm.

     Manolo Sanchez
         -Location

Bull entered at an unknown time after 3:27 pm.

     Briefcase
          -Lincoln Sitting Room

     Refreshment

The unknown man and Bull left at an unknown time before 4:41 pm.

     Kissinger's secret trip to Moscow
          -Plans to maintain secrecy
                -Trip to Camp David
                      -Disadvantages
                             -Haldeman's opinion
                -Trip to Florida
                      -Press
                      -Itinerary
                             -Problems

Haldeman entered at 4:41 pm.

                                  -The President's schedule
                                  -Mrs. Nixon's schedule
                -Camp David
                    -Problems
                    -Compared with Florida
                         -Press coverage
                         -Arrangements
                              -314 House
                               15

          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                      Tape Subject Log
                         (rev. 7/07)



           -Telephone calls
                -Coleman Hicks
                -Secretary
-Florida
      -Problems
            -Telephone calls
            -Haldeman and Ronald L. Ziegler
-Camp David
      -Advantages
            -Security
            -Kissinger's presence
      -Kissinger's itinerary
            -Katharine L. Graham dinner
                  -John D. Ehrlichman
            -Kissinger's staff
-Florida
      -Kissinger's presence
            -Press coverage
                  -Investigation efforts
-Camp David
      -Telephone calls
            -Ziegler
            -Warren
      -Kissinger
            -Cover trip
                  -Florida
                        -Press
                              -Jerrold L. Schecter
                        -Disadvantages
                              -Telephone calls
                                    -Press
                                    -Compared to telephone calls received at
                                    Camp David
      -Shultz and Connally
            -Presence
      -Ziegler's opinion
-Florida
-Camp David
      -Advantages
-Air strike
      -Publicity
-Secrecy of trip
                                             16

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 7/07)



                    -The President’s view
               -Ziegler's handling of questions
                    -Camp David
                           -Itinerary
                                 -American Society of Newspaper Editors [ASNE]
                           -Explanation
                                 -Staff meetings
                                       -Kissinger, Ehrlichman and Haldeman
                                       -Helmut Sonnenfeldt
                                       -Peter W. Rodman

An unknown man entered at an unknown time after 4:41 pm.

The unknown man left at an unknown time before 4:58 pm.

     Kissinger's secret trip to Moscow
          -Camp David trip
                -Scheduling
          -Kissinger's return trip
                -Meetings in Moscow
                      -Forthcoming message
                -Visit to Camp David
                      -Return to Washington
          -Press conference
                -Time
                -Necessity
                      -The President’s view
                             -Possible announcement by the Soviet Union
                -The President's announcement
                -Timing
                -Troop announcement
                      -Press expectations
                -Announcement
                      -Wording
                             -Plenary session
                      -Review of international situation
                      -Preparations for summit
                             -Rogers
                             -Soviet announcement
                -Timing with primaries
                      -Troop announcement
          -Secrecy of trip
                                             17

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 7/07)



              -Credibility issue
                     -Ehrlichman and Ziegler
                           -The President’s [January] 25, 1972 speech
                     -The President’s view
              -Motives
              -Press hostility
              -Motives
                     -The President’s view
              -Announcement
                     -Ziegler
                     -Warren
                           -The President’s view
                     -Handling
                           -Warren and Ziegler’s knowledge of secret trip
                     -Press officer
                           -Ziegler
                                 -Haldeman’s plan
          -Camp David trip
              -The President’s previous plans
          -Announcement
              -Possible coordination with Soviets
                     -Timing
              -Television coverage
                     -Time of day
                     -Primaries
              -Timing
                     -Message to allies
              -Press conference
              -Troop announcement
                     -Time
          -Negotiations with Soviets
              -US posturing
                     -Plenary session

An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 4:41 pm.

     Delivery to the residence

The unknown person left at an unknown time before 4:58 pm.

     Kissinger’s trip to Moscow
          -Announcement
                                                 18

                             NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                         Tape Subject Log
                                            (rev. 7/07)



                -Time of day
                      -The President’s view
           -Plenary session
                -Postponement
                      -Conditions
                            -End of North Vietnamese offensive

The President talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 4:41 and 4:58
pm.

     [Conversation No. 713-1D]

     [See Conversation No. 23-40]

[End of telephone conversation]

     Meeting with Riland
          -Scheduling

Kissinger left at 4:58 pm.

     Kissinger's secret trip to Moscow
          -Florida trip
                -Secrecy

Bull entered at an unknown time after 4:58 pm.

     The President's schedule
          -Meeting with Riland
               -Riland's location

Bull left at an unknown time before 5:01 pm.

The President talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 4:58 an 5:01
pm.

     [Conversation No. 713-1E]

     [See Conversation No. 23-41]

[End of telephone conversation]
                                              19

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 7/07)



     Kissinger's secret trip to Moscow
          -Maintaining secrecy
                -Itinerary
                -Florida trip
                      -Disadvantages
                      -Press questions
                             -Kissinger's location
                                  -314 House
                                  -Staff
                                        -Sonnenfeldt
                -Camp David
                      -Advantages
                -Dealings with press
                      -Ziegler
                             -The President’s view
                      -Explanation
                -The President's meeting with Kissinger, Ehrlichman and Haldeman

Haldeman left at 5:01 pm.