Nixon, Hope & Ziegler on Vietnam War and North Vietnamese Offensive

4:10:43We don't have the time off because...
4:11:07Hey, Bob, how are you?
4:11:09How are you, Mr. Fred?
4:11:11I'll give you a look right here.
4:11:14It's pretty good.
4:11:18You know, I had an idea that you might have fun with.
4:11:23You've got lots of pictures.
4:11:25Is the light enough out there, Ollie, for the garden?
4:11:28I can check it.
4:11:31Well, let's get some of the flags here.
4:11:34ollie everybody gives me stupid things this is a lot of the clutter they told me
4:11:58I won't play.
4:12:00I know, I know, but I didn't tell them.
4:12:02Look at me.
4:12:03But it's yours.
4:12:04It's got a present for you.
4:12:05It's in your bag.
4:12:07Oh, listen, I don't want to get that money.
4:12:09By the way, I drove you.
4:12:10You drove you.
4:12:10There you go.
4:12:11That's all the present I got for you.
4:12:14I had so many things.
4:12:17All right, come on around.
4:12:18All right, come on around.
4:12:30Now, I have so many jokes for you tonight
4:12:57Well, they told me you were coming, you know.
4:12:59Oh, yeah, they were.
4:13:01And I have a lot of things.
4:13:02About the canvas and all that.
4:13:06Well, use it.
4:13:08I'm, well, I'm using it.
4:13:09I've got a good one of them.
4:13:10I understand it's going to be there.
4:13:14Oh, yeah.
4:13:14I'm going to throw the seat in here in spite of this accident.
4:13:20This boy, we had a blowout in his water, and he was about to start to leak all over Jack and me.
4:13:28Well, let's get the outside shot before the sun goes.
4:13:31Do you want this?
4:13:32No, this is yours.
4:13:33But you've got a lot of balls to hit those.
4:13:38You need that.
4:13:41Well, let's get some lovely shots.
4:14:37Now anyway, let me get a key.
4:14:41I think you will find... Do you want any?
4:14:43Why, no, I'll give you one.
4:14:49Okay.
4:14:50Let's see what this is.
4:14:54Well, have you got five minutes or something?
4:14:57Go with it.
4:14:59Hey, come in, will you?
4:15:01Sit down.
4:15:03Well, let me tell you about this situation in a nutshell.
4:15:12You've often heard in Vietnam, and you've been there many times over the last seven, six, seven years, that this is the enemy's last hop.
4:15:20This is.
4:15:21This is all they've got.
4:15:23Fifteen of their 16 divisions in South Vietnam.
4:15:27If, for example, we were still there, it could land even a mini Inchon landing kind of a thing.
4:15:34You could go fall right into hell.
4:15:36It's bare.
4:15:38Now, point two.
4:15:44Oh, too bad.
4:15:48Anyway, the second point is that they have thrown everything in, and what they were guessing, and their calculation we found, and we have good intelligence on it, was that they thought that if they threw everything in, that I would not react.
4:16:12and that the South Vietnamese would cave.
4:16:16Well, they were wrong of course, both of those particular propositions, because the first instance, the South Vietnamese have stood up well.
4:16:27They have not panicked.
4:16:29They've been under enormous pressure.
4:16:33But the second point is, and this is the thing they had not calculated, they didn't figure that instead of just keeping Surgis at 300,
4:16:41day, which is what we've been having for the last few months.
4:16:43We've de-escalated a lot.
4:16:46But I have ordered out there the enormous force that we have.
4:16:49It's a hell of a force.
4:16:51We've got six carriers there now.
4:16:54We've got about 35 destroyers and we've got four cruisers shelling it in.
4:17:10day, every day.
4:17:12They are hitting the battlefront every time they shake their heads up.
4:17:20But you can see what that does for South Vietnamese morale.
4:17:23This strike on Hanoi and Haiphong was necessary due to the fact that after they had violated the DMZ and invaded, you see now there isn't, they used to say it was civil war.
4:17:50We are going to continue to bomb military targets in North Vietnam until they quit invading South Vietnam, until they quit killing Americans.
4:18:01They're not killing many Americans.
4:18:02You can still say that.
4:18:04And South Vietnamese in South Vietnam.
4:18:07Now, as far as the fighting is concerned, it's all being done in South Vietnamese.
4:18:10Our casualties still run 10 to 12 a week.
4:18:13It's not .
4:18:14That's air.
4:18:15People lost air.
4:18:18We are, our participation is solely in terms of air and sea power.
4:18:25But when you say the immunization hasn't worked, I'm sure it has.
4:18:30This is proof of it.
4:18:31It's only half of the tactical air stories are being flown by the South American peace themselves.
4:18:36One half.
4:18:38And that's quite an achievement.
4:18:39So it shows you that this country, as a result of our long suffering,
4:18:47defend itself without our help, if we, with that we have stayed, of course.
4:18:52But now we come back to why bomb the Hanoi-Haito complex.
4:18:57If, after such a massive invasion, we just tit for tat, it's no message.
4:19:04So what we are in effect saying is, look here, if you're gonna play this kind of a game, we then are going to hit you, and more is to come.
4:19:13There's another reason too, we want the Russians to know this.
4:19:17Now, as you well realize, this is coming as it does after the Chinese summit and coming as it does before the Russian summit.
4:19:25Many observers say, well, do you actually want to risk the Chinese summit?
4:19:29All hope of that is the Russian summit.
4:19:31The answer is, of course.
4:19:32But the greater risk is to have a president of the United States go to Russia, hat in hand,
4:19:39Oh, losing to South Vietnam, to North Vietnam, supported by the Russians.
4:19:43This is five years later.
4:19:45That's right.
4:19:46Five years later.
4:19:48It's fine.
4:19:51How could you not?
4:19:53It's like taking and letting a guy, if you can know a guy that sure has a gun, and you let that fella keep bringing ammunition, fire at your house.
4:20:02You know, it's stupid.
4:20:03And this has been the story.
4:20:05You know, one time we had a talk, and you asked me what I thought about it, two years ago, last October.
4:20:11Amber and I said what Mr. Eisenhower said, you know.
4:20:16I asked him after one of the trips about five years ago, four years ago, I said, if you were president, they wanted you to go in the backyard of his house at Palm Desert.
4:20:25And he said, I would invade North Vietnam and not be against you.
4:20:32So if you don't give them a hard stroke, we can blame them.
4:20:38Gee, they must think we're the, you know, we're a big deal.
4:20:40You see, what we have done now, Bob, is that we have put them tall.
4:20:43And they know it.
4:20:44But they also, because of the naval strength we have there, that we could put more to them.
4:20:48Because, you see, we now have a potential blockade there.
4:20:52Yeah.
4:20:52We see.
4:20:53We've got it all there in place, Bob.
4:20:56And what we're doing is now see how they react.
4:21:02And curiously enough, don't be surprised if they react.
4:21:07I hope they all can make it in time, but they might react in a more conciliatory way.
4:21:18We don't know.
4:21:25lose Vietnam.
4:21:26We can't lose 50,000 Americans and lose this war, sir.
4:21:30And this is where our democratic critics are just dead wrong.
4:21:33And what about the future, Jeff?
4:21:35You have no future.
4:21:36Nobody can beat you.
4:21:37What about Southeast Asia?
4:21:39Nobody.
4:21:40What about the Middle East?
4:21:41The world.
4:21:42You're Jewish, Frank.
4:21:43You see most of those people.
4:21:44Let me tell you, if a Russian-supported invasion of South Vietnam by Communist North Vietnam succeeds against the United States,
4:21:55What the hell do you think the Russians are going to do in the Mideast?
4:21:59They will arm those missiles over there and man them with Russians in the UAR.
4:22:05And Israel is finished.
4:22:08The Jews have better understand that.
4:22:11And what will they do?
4:22:12All over the world, you see, the Russians will then get an enormous...
4:22:18If they figure they can get away with this, they'll push us again.
4:22:20But if you stop them, they'll back down.
4:22:23And that's what we're doing.
4:22:24We're playing...
4:22:26put it this way, they're very, very easy to play each other.
4:22:28I would say, in the guy's opinion, in terms of poker, the way you might be able to put it to you is this.
4:22:36I was a pretty fair poker player.
4:22:38Everybody's got a different style.
4:22:40And to be a good poker player, you sometimes have to bluff him, sometimes.
4:22:46But there was one characteristic of my poker playing that I recall now that most of them notice.
4:22:53I can hardly remember a time
4:22:55that I was called, that I didn't have the cards.
4:22:58In other words, we've got the cards now.
4:23:01And if they call us, and if these bastards continue to go down there, and if they do not come to the conference table and freely negotiate about everything, including prisoners, we're going to continue to bomb the hell out of them until we get a ban.
4:23:18I don't know what happens.
4:23:19People say, well, you lose the election if you don't have an impeachment.
4:23:28you might win an election and lose the country.
4:23:30And you've got to win that way personally, too.
4:23:34I think so.
4:23:35I don't know.
4:23:35Who knows?
4:23:36You can't.
4:23:37You can't.
4:23:37If these guys start to sell you out, which you read every day now, you know.
4:23:43God, I've never read such a press.
4:23:44I was telling the president a piece about the Russian embassy.
4:23:48I am surprised that the American Legion or some patriotic group doesn't go over there and kill those guys.
4:23:52Did you read about that?
4:23:54Mm-hmm.
4:23:56Give the North Vietnam more missiles so they can shoot down U.S. airplanes.
4:24:03How do you like that?
4:24:04Well, why didn't our people react to that?
4:24:07Not here, no.
4:24:08They should have.
4:24:09I mean, I'd go over and have some of the boys work over some of those things.
4:24:16They didn't like what happened.
4:24:18Did you?
4:24:18Did you also know that?
4:24:19I haven't talked to Trump directly.
4:24:22I think I would.
4:24:22I didn't know that.
4:24:23Was it in the paper this morning or something?
4:24:30It really is.
4:24:31I mean, they can say anything they want, but when they stand in Washington and say to a Russian embassy, give no Vietnam missiles so they can shoot down our guys, something's got to happen there, huh?
4:24:45Yeah.
4:24:45Well, you know, you have to realize, too, Bob, is that the press, you know, we have to realize about 90% of the time, I guess maybe it's better to ignore them first.
4:24:59Well, let me tell you, Daniel...
4:25:00They're nuts anyway, aren't they?
4:25:01They know what they're doing.
4:25:02They just want us to lose.
4:25:04Yeah, what do you want Daniel to say about that?
4:25:06Daniel, tomorrow, is going to make a speech to the editors, and he's going to read it.
4:25:10I am going to call him when I get back to the hotel, because I want to tell him this.
4:25:15He should say something about this, you know?
4:25:17Call him.
4:25:18This will point at him.
4:25:20Call him, because Daniel is finding that he's...
4:25:29And I wanted to bring it back.
4:25:37And I left it in my other coat.
4:25:38I was gonna just put it in the envelope and leave it at the door of the sheriff's apartment, you know?
4:25:44And say, give this to the vice president for me.
4:25:46What a guy.
4:25:47But I let Ross have it, though.
4:25:50Isn't that great?
4:25:50Isn't that great?
4:25:55Well, listen, Colin, Colin,
4:26:09But we'll be saying a little more next week, I think.
4:26:12It's probably going to be the right time, particularly as we see how inviting this could all be.
4:26:20But if you...
4:26:22I totally agree with what I said.
4:26:34What happened?
4:26:35You see, you remember there was a lieutenant colonel who was trained under Hayward, and when a couple of young recruits, you know, didn't want to go out on some mission, these lousy son-of-a-bitch reporters that were there, and this lieutenant colonel said, you pressed that because you were responsible for this, and he says, credit.
4:26:55I hope you have credit.
4:27:17Second, this was a beautifully trained outfit and so forth.
4:27:20They're all recruits.
4:27:21None of them had seen any action before.
4:27:24But members of the American press went to them and told them, and said, look, kids, don't you realize that they're not sending in helicopters because the South Vietnamese are using them, and they're going to send you through a minefield on this thing.
4:27:39You shouldn't take this.
4:27:43They did that.
4:27:43Abrams tried to
4:27:57You know what I'm saying?
4:27:59You're not going to publicize that.
4:28:04You see, the point is, I'm giving the best, not for his language, but basically for being a courageous man, training people.
4:28:16And he then talked to the kids, calmed them down.
4:28:19He said, that's a goddamn lie.
4:28:22It's all amazing.
4:28:23But to think that the Americans
4:28:28It was a horrible thing.
4:28:32What do you think of it?

Nixon, Hope & Ziegler on Vietnam War and North Vietnamese Offensive

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Also recorded on April 20, 1972

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