Conversation 718-004

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And that'll be the thing.

I checked, they said they'll have a call, so I'm coming in.

Basically, the argument that, do you have something else that you have to ask?

No, we've got Annapolis squared away.

Annapolis is squared away, no problem.

I did it on the basis that we were going to work out the format of the chapel versus the army and all that.

It just seemed like it would be better to hold off Annapolis.

No, it's good.

to raise the question let me explain

In other words, the invasion, which I'm urged to continue to hammer, hammer, hammer, hammer, hammer.

It's coming.

It's rushing.

You understand?

Yep.

They're all doing that now.

Yep.

They need to keep it on.

That's the big thing.

So anyway, he said, well, you can go to Moscow.

He said, well, I'll be over there.

I mean, don't do that.

He talks in a certain way.

But anyway, I said, George, I'm going to ask you a question.

I'm going to ask you a question.

Now, the other side of this coin, however, is that we had here a situation where I, who had been the strongest advocate of the time, they had been caught through Russians.

I think I've got Henry on my wavelength, but I think he's on the wavelength here, partly for the wrong reason.

In a word, Henry had his hopes so high when he went to Moscow and he heard that he had his hopes high when he went to Paris and heard that.

And now he says, he's going through the argument, he says, I think there's only one course and that is to cancel some of the hunting.

And then after that, he would bomb an arm.

Now, the purpose of that, he says, that hunting, the arms of that hunter,

And until we get money on intangibles, it'll have an enormous effect, certainly, on full-strength psychos.

We're going to put all the chips in the pot.

It will have an enormous effect also on anhydrous physical tolerance.

We are not allowed, even in our interest, in our Russian summit in New Jersey, which I was right there.

And on this last one, that's hard to find out.

looking at the last line first, because it could turn out to be the most important.

He's certainly right in the short run.

And sure, if I go on television and say there's Soviet tanks and guns and they're shooting up civilians and arresting them, people will say, a damn courageous act.

It would mobilize our hawks and soldiers.

Well, I don't gain points on YouTube.

It's even an isolation when they cancel it out.

People rouse on the president's very hand.

And the law doesn't.

at is what happens.

Now, if the cancer in the summit, and nothing is sure, but would substantially increase the chances of bringing the Vietnam thing to a successful conclusion, I would do it in a minute.

If, on the other hand, cancer in the summit is only marginal in terms of bringing it to a successful conclusion,

Then you're losing a lot of long-range plusses.

Right.

Then you're losing a lot of long-range plusses.

Well, not too big plusses, except that you're buying a lot of long-range negatives.

Okay.

The long-range negatives being that collapse of the foreign policy, but also the massive, when you cancel a summit,

uh, lots of upgrading of some bombers and all those.

The Soviet propaganda, uh, force, I'm not referring to the US as Henry talks to, but I'm referring to all over the world.

Uh, demonstrations and so forth and so forth.

We've unleashed many armed sanctions.

You would have the embassies and, well, you know what I mean?

They really started raising holy hell with us because they figured what the Christ makes us draw on the sword.

We have no interest in it, whatever.

So we got a meeting.

That's the point that I think we have to have in mind.

Is a postponement of the summit not a possibility?

There's a chance that they don't.

It also bears on the

later success of our next foreign policy.

Now, the whole policy comes down and shambles as a result of his insistence on fighting this terrible war in Vietnam.

Now, that's the line.

In a sense, that cost is too high to pay, in a sense.

It's too high to pay because you can confuse the Vietnam

Well, coming back to this thing, you see, I think the Henry analysis, and I have to really look at it, because I think you said it very strongly, we can't go to Moscow and so forth.

I think Henry is...

I agree.

First, once you make the announcement, you're going to have a hell of a lot of hawkish time.

It won't last.

That won't hold very long.

That'll give you a blip.

What the hell is happening with the next foreign policy?

But then you get the erosion.

The press will just...

They're already trying to set it up that you've gambled all the deep.

pieces that you were putting together are are in grave danger of coming apart the cancellation of the summit would be the maximum signal that they have come apart and they to them it would give them a rallying point to build that case on and they're they're so you know they leap on everything they can get anything to get a foot in at all that

So it would erode over, you'd get a good look, I think you'd get a hell of a bounce at first, a strong move by the President, or he's not going to kick us around and that kind of stuff.

But then you have to do that in early May.

Second thoughts would be very, very difficult.

Would build up, and then the Democrats at the convention in July would say, here we are, a president that was going to go to Moscow and bring us a generation of peace is now being bogged us down in an unwinnable, desperate war in Vietnam.

Governor, they say that Henry is, in my, I mean, if I can pronounce it correctly, he doesn't even know this.

But put yourself in this position.

He feels, and he says what is terribly disappointing to Henry, because it was false, and he could know it too.

Because he failed.

I mean, because they did not come true.

As he had told people here, both Moscow and Vietnam.

He wants to say, in effect, God damn you, you can't do this to us.

Get my point?

It's sort of a bravado act, basically.

So we say we're going to cancel the summit.

It's a good short-term bravado act, isn't it?

Now, on the other hand, let's look at it this way.

Assuming the situation that we have now, assuming you don't, if we don't go to the summit, we've got to get the hand-by-hand long-airing to sure as hell.

That goddamn Laird is playing his usual game saying we can't find targets and so forth.

He is a miserable bastard, really.

You know, if Laird and Rodgers haven't really got two clowns here that go on for, you know, when they say that they went on and did well on television or whatever the hell else that they do and they go on.

But now, you know damn well that stuff on Salt was leaked out by Rogers and Graceman, wasn't it?

And it shouldn't have been, should it?

And you know the Gordsman story is, because he's on the plane.

Why the hell would Biddle do that to Conrad?

The courts must start counting on Conrad.

Why Biddle though?

I mean, God damn it, he knows the necessity for confidentiality when the president is concerned.

Why is he put on such an ad?

He just can't help himself.

Man, if the government pressed, we'd all understand.

I don't know.

It's quite disturbing to me.

It's quite disturbing.

But Henry was right on this.

It's about him.

The one thing I disagree with on it, it's all this big deal.

But Henry was right.

On the other hand, Henry was right in terms of saying, be sure we get out in front of them.

You agree?

Yeah.

Because Rogers and Smith were sitting there ready to put the deal out as theirs.

Huh?

Even that wouldn't have been as bad as Henry thinks it would have been because Rogers and Smith are your employees.

I agree.

I would agree just like Henry does.

He overlooks that.

He's the only one that's considered to be our man.

The others have built up the other way.

That's not really true.

It's stronger, obviously.

It was good we put it out.

It's better to have it out of here.

At least on the Hoover thing, though, you say that's when they did come out and did it the right way.

They did something the right way.

Okay.

I mean, I think you dominated the ride on a big fleet gun on all of these last time.

That's exactly where you should have.

They used the stuff on the air clip.

It was the right thing to do.

And it played right.

And they're going, you know, it's 99.9% superpositive stuff, of course.

You've got a few shits like Randy Davis and Dr. Spock, and that's all the better you want then.

Well, that prayers out my point about the vicious detractors.

You've got to have some detractors.

The press won't detract now.

They're going the other way.

But...

They're starting, what they are trying to do is move, they're trying to prod the Senate, which again confirms the wisdom of not going up there with a new direction.

To investigate the FBI.

They keep saying it remains, now that they know it's probable that the Senate will try to careful look at the FBI, which they've not been willing to do.

Or which there's been pressure to do, but it's not starting on business.

Well, we also have a question then of a new nominee for Deputy Attorney General.

We should say that, in answer to your question, you'll withdraw Gray's nomination as Deputy Attorney General, and be submitting another one.

But we sure as hell shouldn't do that until after Plain East is confirmed.

No, because you don't want to get into the same guy there.

No, no.

But I don't think we have to say that.

I think one could just say, well, the president is considering having to do quite a delay.

Yes, he has some time.

I mean, we didn't have to.

After all, we didn't anticipate Hoover's death.

And so he's going through the process.

It will take some time for him.

Importantly, of course, is to provide leadership to the FBI immediately.

And Deputy Attorney General, he'd be longer out for a while.

So we're making the right sacrifice in terms of leadership.

Gray is all set to take the prison.

He wanted to be Deputy Attorney General, but he will do whatever he's told.

And he's not doing it unwillingly at all.

Well, looking at the problem, he said, if he's the right kind of human being...

forgotten that assignment to find out how many of the Washington White House Correspondents had their children.