Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 719 › Conversation 719-002

Nixon & Haig on Vietnam War and Military Operations

Thursday, May 4, 1972 · 8:45 AM–8:57 AM ET · Oval Office · 13 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Haig, Alexander M., Jr.Conversation719-002 on Tape 719 (tape position 00:04:01–00:17:09)StartThursday, May 4, 1972 at 8:45 AMEndThursday, May 4, 1972 at 8:57 AMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 719-002 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Alexander Haig met to receive a tactical update on the North Vietnamese spring offensive and to discuss the strategic importance of holding Hue. They reviewed the effectiveness of U.S. air strikes and naval gunfire against North Vietnamese forces, as well as the progress of ARVN counterattacks in various military regions. Additionally, Nixon expressed frustration with negative press reporting in South Vietnam and emphasized the symbolic necessity of defending Hue, while Haig reported on his efforts to secure congressional support for the administration's military policies.

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Position in tape: 00:04:01 – 00:17:09

part A, 4:13

719a.mp3
719b.mp3

NARA Description

On May 4, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. met in the Oval Office of the White House from 8:45 am to 8:57 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 719-002 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 719-2

Date: May 4, 1972
Time: 8:45 am - 8:57 am
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Alexander M. Haig, Jr.

     Greetings

     Vietnam
          -Morning report
              -North Vietnam offensive
                    -Maj. Gen. Ngo Quang Truong
                          -IV corps
                          -Shakeup of command
                    -News reports
                          -United Press International [UPI] reporter
                                -Sydney Schanberg
                    -Air strikes
                          -Effectiveness
                                -Damage assessment
                                     -Duong Hoi
                                     -Quang Tri
                                     -Details
                    -Merger of divisions
                    -Losses
                    -Hue area

      -South Vietnam perimeter
      -Consolidation of forces
            -Effects
            -Cavalry squadron
            -South Vietnam marines
            -Mobile reserve
                  -2nd Army of the Republic of Vietnam [ARVN] division
            -Airborne division
-ARVN counterattack
      -A South Vietnamese general
            -Brigade in Kontum
                  -Problems
                  -B-52 strikes
-III corps
      -ARVN movements
            -An loc
Show the rest of the log (49 more lines)
      -Fighting
            -Phouc Long (sp?)
      -US retaliation
      -Air strikes
            -North Vietnam losses
-Naval gunfire
      -Effectiveness
-Air operations
      -Damage in North Vietnam
      -Reports on air action
-A news report
      -Public information officer [PIO] problems
      -Source
      -Anti-Americanism in South Vietnam
      -Washington Star
            -Article
            -UPI
            -[Forename unknown] Ward (?)
-I Corps
      -Military action
      -Hue area
            -Symbolism
                  -Comparison with Verdun, Stalingrad
                  -Importance
                  -Gen. Creighton W. Abrams, Jr.
                  -Haig's conversation with Adm. Thomas H. Moorer

                                        -Compared with Kontum
                                  -Firepower to be used
                      -South Vietnam counteroffensive
                            -Real problems
                      -Hue
                            -Importance
                      -Air strikes
                            -Tactical air [TACAIR]
                                  -Night attacks
                      -PIO problems
                 -Reports
                      -"Hawks"
                            -Henry A. Kissinger
                      -Haig's previous meeting
                            -Samuel L. Devine's group
                            -Edward J. Derwinski
                                  -Haig’s view
                                  -Statements
                                  -Need for support
                                  -Criticism

Haig left at 8:57 am.

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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We still
There's nothing to justify the kind of reporting that came out of there yesterday.
Well, it's the UVI.
It's always a little Cleveland in this, on the way to Shattenburg.
It's really horrible stuff all the time.
The air has been very effective in the last 48 hours.
We're starting to get some...
bomb damage assessments from what they've done in the Bellahoy, Quantree area, primarily, and in MR1.
They've gotten 69 trucks and 16 guns in just the last 48 hours, which is very good.
Is it?
Yes, sir.
That's quite a bit.
As I told you last night, four tanks.
Well, they take them and hold them under a tree or something that can't be seen from the air.
And when they're attacking, that's when they're vulnerable.
Right.
They have, the North Vietnamese have, they have definite information that they've had a merge of those two divisions in the ICARB, and to make one very under-strained division.
So they've taken a pounding in your professional direction?
Yes, sir.
They've taken a hell of a pounding.
Now, in the wave perimeter, they've got a river line set up on the northern flank there.
They've pulled back to a riverside water barrier.
And they've got their forces all consolidated inside.
So they're in good shape in terms of getting ready to defend there.
And they've got, what is this, actually two?
They have three cavalry squatters.
They've got two divisions defending, the 1st Division and the Marine Division, which they pulled together for the first time instead of fighting in separate brigades.
Their performance has been superb.
In addition, they've created a mobile reserve of three cavalry squadrons and an Arvin regiment.
from the 2nd Army Division.
They pulled up two battalions from the 2nd Army Front of Staff.
Now, he's reassembling his Airborne Division, which has really been the shock unit.
They've moved it all over the place in this conflict.
and his objective is to attack north as soon as they take the attack then they have the second marines and the airborne well they should have been able to attack it
They weren't moving with the kind of mobility that they should have.
And he's also very goosey about that airport.
He uses them in the key places, but he never wants to put them in a place where they get trapped.
And he's pulled that one brigade here.
He's pulling it out of Khantoum.
So I think in his mind, he figures that Khantoum is
something that he'll have to write off if necessary.
Now, they put B-52s all around Khartoum yesterday.
And they're reporting that they got a lot of hurt in it.
But I think that's going to be very hairy when it hits.
They haven't really solved it yet.
They've been pouring a lot of fire into the enemy tanks.
They still haven't linked up on Route 13, but they're very close to it now.
Let's see, I want to know the friendlies coming up Route 13 to open up the road to Anlock.
They are very close.
There hasn't been any other heavy fighting in 3 Corps at all.
We're still getting them there, though, I suppose.
Yes, sir.
Oh, yes.
They might get them.
And they killed 45 in Foucaulon yesterday in just one airstrike, so they're being attributed.
The funniest thing that started to happen is the Navy, all along the coast, they've shipped a lot of guns out to engage these naval ships, so they're really hurting them.
Those guns might not want to be used anymore.
That's right, yeah.
The air operations in the north yesterday got four trucks, 33 boats, five bridges knocked down.
We haven't been getting very good reports of those air actions.
In other words, we haven't been getting much damage, is that it?
They haven't been reporting them.
They're getting the damage because it's been fairly intense in the state.
Oh, the PIO problem, yes, sir.
They're trying to find out the guy that filed that story.
And the Army is going to, GDN is going to throw them out if they can get them.
Well, just so they can clean it up.
Clean the press out of there, too.
But, you know, they go stir out the people and try to scare the hell out of them like they did out in the core of Europe.
Exactly.
Well, you know, and they report that an American building is burnt, which shows anti-Americanism.
And it was done by a D.C. firebomb line, and goddammit, that's a dishonest report.
Exactly.
Did I believe that?
They have denied it, yes.
The Star had a story last night that there was no looting or raping.
There was some... Star?
Well, the Star had a headline that there was looting.
Well, the... That was another story.
That was another story.
Smart boy.
Yeah, he's...
He's got the controller.
just isn't an awful lot happening tonight, except for we're doing it in the morning.
Will you try the, uh, will you try to concentrate it?
Well, the chairman, particularly the way, let me say the way I look at the way
like we're done it's a hell of a symbol it's a very important area and the way is a place where they should fight in the last season without being enemies that's my theory i think they're not that's something like that there's got to be decided from here aiden will understand that kind of thinking he doesn't really understand that sort of thing you know he's thinking of the whole order of battle and all that but there are places that are worth saving and there are places that are not like the russians fought for stalingrad
Therefore, I really feel that just rather than saying, well, we have 30% here, 40% there, 20% there, why in the name of God can't he get them around and talk about being ready to leave the country?
That's all I'm suggesting.
Well, this is what he's going to do.
This is what I talked to the chairman about last night.
And, uh,
You use that thing.
Basically, it's a redundant situation.
It's a terrible symbol.
We've got a cold wave.
The wave of condoms and all that is what we wanted to go with.
No, I think this is right.
And I think putting a drone up there and taking some 2nd Division troops and putting them in there.
But what I'm thinking of is an enormous artillery
Yes, sir.
I mean, you see, our wing is as close to the port as we just don't have them.
Jets are not good for close support.
No, they're all right.
You have spotters?
They're doing fine.
I think the real problem has been that these guys haven't stood and fought.
The air is doing very well.
Oh, I know.
That's good to be able to let us help.
Anyway, let's try to really, really, really work this away.
All these trucks and things that they got yesterday, they've been getting mostly at night.
They keep the battlefield illuminated with flares.
And they just bring attack air in as over data.
And the enemy, of course, used to move at night.
So that's been helpful.
Keep eating those BIOs.
Yes, sir.
I understand.
And he says the hawks want to stick it in the barn.
Chase is one of the special guys.
Did you reassure them that we were getting the hell out of them?
I did.
I got damn tough with them.
What'd you say?
Well, this guy Derwinsky is a big mouth.
Right.
And he stood up and gave a little speech about the company's leadership and why the hell are we letting them get away with this.
And I just didn't wait a goddamn minute.
I said, uh...
I sit there where I know where the decisions are made, and I said, it's good for you to sit over here and pontificate the work we've done about it.
It's up to you people.
Where our threats have always been from the Congress of the United States, cutting off funds, not supporting defense budgets, manpower cuts.
I said, that's your responsibility, and we need your help with it.
He said, do you have any problems with the command of the chief?
He said, we've been hearing this for three years.
He said, we'll go to Russia.
We'll go to China.
Goddamn, there were some of them.
But this isn't real.
Well, you were telling me about the strikes we were putting in.
The amount of stuff we had out there.

— 1 min 11 s with no transcribed speech —

As a rule, a man's true greatness

Also recorded on May 4, 1972

  • 719-001 8:43 AM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 8:43 am and 8:45 am.
  • 719-003 8:58 AM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Rose Mary Woods, and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House from 8:58 am to 9:02 am.
  • 719-004 9:06 AM · 58 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Ronald L. Ziegler, Stephen B. Bull, Henry A. Kissinger, and John B. Connally met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:06 am to 9:59 am.
  • 023-150 9:30 AM · 38 sec — H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, White House operator, President Richard M. Nixon, and John B. Connally talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 9:30 am and 9:35 am.
  • 719-005 9:59 AM · 33 sec — President Richard M. Nixon met in the Oval Office of the White House at 9:59 am.
  • 719-006 9:59 AM · 25 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 9:59 am and 10:03 am.
  • 719-007 9:59 AM · 23 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 9:59 am and 10:22 am.
  • 719-008 10:22 AM · 8 min — H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:22 am to 10:31 am.

All 45 conversations from May 4, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 719-002, May 4, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/719-002 (accessed November 2, 2026).