Nixon White House Tapes ›Tape 720 › Conversation 720-007

Nixon, Haldeman & Bull on Vietnam War and political rhetoric

Friday, May 5, 1972 · 11:47 AM–12:09 PM ET · Oval Office

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob");  Bull, Stephen B.;  [Unknown person(s)]Conversation720-007 onTape 720 (tape position 01:33:59–01:56:29)StartFriday, May 5, 1972 at 11:47 AMEndFriday, May 5, 1972 at 12:09 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 720-007 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and H. R. Haldeman discussed the strategy and messaging for an upcoming televised address regarding the Vietnam War and a proposed blockade. Nixon expressed deep frustration with the American 'leader class'—including university presidents, the media, and business elites—whom he accused of lacking the fortitude to support his policies. Consequently, the two agreed to coordinate a political counter-offensive that would blame congressional 'doves' for the breakdown in peace negotiations and the enemy's continued intransigence.

Audio

Download MP3 (part 1) · 168.2 MB ·Download MP3 (part 2) · 145.3 MB

This conversation has not yet been cut into its own clip, so the player above contains the full tape segment shared with neighbouring conversations. It begins about 01:33:59 into the tape and ends around 01:56:29.

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

Download transcript (.txt) ·JSON data · Timestamps are positions within the full tape recording.

1:34:59You thought you might have some heart to take a stab.
1:35:07And he says he doesn't feel like this.
1:35:09Shocked.
1:35:20You see, Bob, this is such a shocker, and it's so profound and strong that you just haven't got anybody to understand it, except you can, that could do it with heart.
1:35:32I mean, Andrew just couldn't bring himself to this one.
1:35:36I mean, Sapphire, and Sapphire, she's too cute.
1:35:40She's too cute.
1:35:41It sure can't be cute.
1:35:42It's got to be very simple and elemental.
1:35:46I'm going to try to do a lot of it myself.
1:35:47Let me see, and then I'll see how I get along.
1:35:50It's today, Freddie.
1:35:51Listen, I'll work on it tomorrow.
1:35:56And then, frankly, if I get bugged out by a guy, I may just try it.
1:36:02It was awful.
1:36:21The other time what I did was to basically dictate the graph, you know, the graph outline, and he did some good polishing at this time.
1:36:27I'm sorry, I'm horrified at what they were trying to do with that, because I'm afraid it's going to get large and put in every record.
1:36:40That can't be done.
1:36:41I just don't think we want all that in there.
1:36:45Henry should brief on that the next day.
1:36:48You know what I mean?
1:36:48Let it be the follow-up.
1:36:49I just think we've got to say that we have offered this and that and the other thing.
1:36:52I can tell you to just say it, and the American people are going to believe you on it.
1:36:57But now we've come to the point that they've turned down everything.
1:36:59And I decided to bring the Lord in there.
1:37:08I'm going to do it right now.
1:37:14Blocking.
1:37:17Do you have any thoughts about who the doctor is?
1:37:24I think my thought is Andrews.
1:37:26I think he can step up if he's told to do.
1:37:29I think he's more likely to do what you tell him to do.
1:37:32Yeah.
1:37:33And this one, you're not looking for creative input because you know what you want to say and what you want to say.
1:38:16Bye.
1:40:13but I could just tell them that John did.
1:40:15Or Bill, or both, for that matter.
1:40:17Or me and him.
1:40:17OK.
1:40:18I'll tell you, you can use Andrews, but I think you should have him talk to him before.
1:40:23You could say, no, I don't care.
1:40:24It's going to be a decision that you're not going to agree with.
1:40:33I mean, you may not agree with me.
1:40:36But it's a very profound thing, and so forth and so on.
1:40:39If you were to be solely there for the purpose of
1:40:46questions about basically substance, substances reciting and so forth and so on.
1:40:56I was getting the report of those
1:41:14I said, where are you going to sign this?
1:41:21Two easy things.
1:41:31Dr. Baker said, well, he said that I should make a speech to the American people.
1:41:36And I thought, you know, this thing would be a lot of fun.
1:41:45And I said, well, let me tell you something.
1:41:47If I make that speech, I'll get some.
1:41:48But I said, when the heads of the American universities, when the three with the great television networks, when they have press boards in this country, including the Los Angeles Times,
1:42:01When they, over and over, are going to hand them to the public and say, what do you expect young people to do?
1:42:07And I said, where is the leader class?
1:42:09And I ran through them, and I said, here are your university presidents.
1:42:14Here are your U.S. legislators, except for Billy Graham, or Crowe.
1:42:18Here are your press lords, except for the people out in the country, the ones that aren't quite as up to the name.
1:42:26And here are your...
1:42:29I said, where is your guts in this country?
1:42:31I said, you know, I met someone yesterday.
1:42:35I said, I met a fellow on the Fifth of Seminoles.
1:42:36I said, you wouldn't like him.
1:42:38He's a thieves and billows guy.
1:42:39He's in a bad labor union and so forth.
1:42:41And he had a guy by the name of Joe Teave, I think, who was a labor leader from that.
1:42:45But I said, and I can say the same for George.
1:42:47I mean, these guys have got guts.
1:42:49I said, they aren't the nice people that you all associate with that you go around silly martinis with.
1:42:55Oh, yeah, that's all right.
1:42:58and a water in place and that's when they shot him.
1:43:00They shot him and he was hurt beyond his skin.
1:43:03He said, well, he wasn't sure that he could agree with them.
1:43:05I mean, no, he said, when he died, he talked to me sometime about, he said, I said, no.
1:43:09I said, it's the American people.
1:43:15I said, it's the American people.
1:43:18But the leader class is still American, and the Rockefeller stuff, and he said, you're right.
1:43:22He said, but he said, on the other hand, these leaders will start following you.
1:43:25But they began to think that they're out of step.
1:43:28And then Murphy, and Murphy went into the, well, you've got to realize, you know, I was saying back to the China trip that happened so short, and I hope that you're right.
1:43:37I couldn't agree more.
1:43:39I said, let's have an illusion, so that
1:43:41They need to hear Bob.
1:43:45They need to hear the truth.
1:44:01Truly, what the hell do they expect you?
1:44:04Why should I get up and lecture them and then give $50 million to MIT when the president of MIT comes out against the United States using his air car against military targets only to stop a Congress invasion and doesn't say a goddamn word about the invasion, which has already killed 50,000 civilians?
1:44:23See that one?
1:48:11Okay, you can talk to Andrews.
1:48:24We had a family plans for our annual weekend at Williamsburg going down this afternoon.
1:48:30Do you think I should be up there at Camp David?
1:48:34I don't know.
1:48:35I'd be glad to.
1:48:36No, no.
1:48:37No, no.
1:48:38I'll come back.
1:48:40Early on Sunday, because things will start, well, we'll start getting, I guess we won't, we can't do anything until Monday.
1:48:50But not until Sunday night.
1:48:54There isn't much point in getting back before that.
1:48:55You're just going to have to suffer with it.
1:49:01And also, Monday morning is when you've got to do the, I've got to get everybody together.
1:49:05Unless you want to do it Sunday night for your own convenience, so you don't have to be bothered on Monday, which may be disappointing.
1:49:09Well, I'll have to, you've got the problem, too, with the breathing.
1:49:14I thought for that breathing, Henry, I think that, I think I should just breathe the big four this time.
1:49:22I don't, let me explain why.
1:49:23You know, I just don't want a bull riding church chapel in here.
1:49:26It would be hard enough in the main field.
1:49:28And, uh,
1:49:30And then let Rogers breathe the foreign relations types, and let Blair breathe the armed services types.
1:49:34That's the only one.
1:49:36Maybe we'll, you know, maybe we'll have to find him after that.
1:49:42Sure.
1:49:42He doesn't.
1:49:43That's the only one.
1:49:43That's the only one.
1:49:47All right.
1:49:47I need to get back to six.
1:49:49Maybe you're right.
1:49:55Whatever they do, fine.
1:50:03But on the region, we can have a whole goddamn lot of them down here.
1:50:08But I just think that the less I have to do, the better.
1:50:12I've got to be good with the television.
1:50:14Well, I don't think you have to sell us one.
1:50:15That you have to sell it.
1:50:17Why don't you have to tell us?
1:50:19Because I think that's what I mean.
1:50:21I think others should do it.
1:50:22It's a person's line of action.
1:50:27Oh, yeah.
1:50:28You've got to say it's not recent.
1:50:30You've got an interesting thing.
1:50:31You know, the doves in it.
1:50:33On the Cooper, on the Case Church, Case Church deal, Case Cooper deal, there, Case Cooper, not Case Cooper, whatever that amendment is, the Cooper, Case Church, Case Church amendment, there was a Cooper Church amendment, now it's a Case Church amendment.
1:50:56which is to cut off all funds for the war at the end of the year, which is an amendment to the State Department procuration stuff.
1:51:03We've been pushing for a vote because we can defeat it.
1:51:08The Doves have now put it over, but then we would lose that immediately.
1:51:12The Mansfield would be arguing with the commercial goods.
1:51:14They've put it over because they're afraid to get a vote on the thing now.
1:51:19They did not want to vote after the negotiations broke down, see.
1:51:23That's what we're hearing.
1:51:25Well, they broke down yesterday and they put it off last night.
1:51:29And the reason they did our guys' thing is because they're scared, they're worried about the situation there of the fact that we are losing.
1:51:38The negotiations were broken off.
1:51:41It's like the summit making.
1:51:42See, there's these stories that the summit may not come off.
1:51:45You know, it's the spectrum type stuff.
1:51:48And they're afraid they'll be blamed for getting any of those things happening.
1:51:51And therefore, in a sense, the bad news is working in our favor for the moment.
1:51:57We are going to blame them.
1:51:59That's why our guys were debating whether they ought not to force the vote.
1:52:04But our hawks don't want to eat him.
1:52:07Can we do this?
1:52:09Can we get some stories out saying that the Democrats are right and mortal risk here?
1:52:14Yes.
1:52:15Will you try that?
1:52:16We're heavy on it.
1:52:17We've done some stuff.
1:52:19We can set mortal risk because the Democrats are right.
1:52:24It's clear that the enemy's refusal to negotiate is due to the back of the Senate doves and the House doves that are giving them encouragement.
1:52:35Now Bob, I want this done this time.
1:52:38I really want to follow up on it.
1:52:39It has been a little more.
1:52:43I know they've tried.
1:52:44Oh, they've got it.
1:52:44I keep this stuff, you know, they've been here, said they're going to vet me in.
1:52:48Well, let's keep it.
1:52:49Let's get it done.
1:52:50Get it on the network.
1:52:52And that...
1:52:54and also that they're aiding and abetting and that they're encouraging the enemy and not another Vietnam to continue their lynching by their attacks on the president.
1:53:03That the responsibility here, that these people who got us into the war are going to take the responsibility for losing the war, now are giving their most to lose the war.
1:53:15Let somebody get in there.
1:53:19It's got to be rough speeches, rough speeches.
1:53:21I can't, I just can't get across in the sense that you're making, it's a goddamn rough, that they'll have to do it.
1:53:26They're doing, say, treason or anything.
1:53:33No, I, I was, I just thought that this is a good group, you know, except for that Paul Murphy, who's a little soft.
1:53:40Oh, I look, you know, he's not, but he, I don't want to have him come in and gas run.
1:53:45He's not going to tell me.
1:53:47But my point is,
1:53:49He just got to understand that, by God, Bob, the American leader class has lost its guts.
1:53:56And I included businessmen.
1:53:59I said, not the mainstream businessmen, but I said, your elite businessmen, they want to trade with China and trade with Russia.
1:54:05They don't see the communists and they don't understand the problem.
1:54:09It's absolutely right.
1:54:14But I thought it was good that, you know, he would actually get through it.
1:54:17Because I said, then I finally concluded, I said, you know, the real problem in this country is not the American people.
1:54:24It's us.
1:54:24We're the legal clients.
1:54:25We're the ones who are going to go to America.
1:54:29So I wish you as much credit for that.
1:54:32Thank you.
1:54:44He's a great guy.
1:54:48He's a great guy.
1:54:53You know, I'm really right, though, about the facts they say.
1:55:00Why he has better weapons and so forth.
1:55:03The Russians basically have better weapons.
1:55:06You know why?
1:55:09Our fucking scientists will not work on weapons.
1:55:12Do you realize that?
1:55:12Yeah, we've got a hell of a lot of them at home.
1:55:16That's right.
1:55:17The Russians, the best Russian scientists work on weapons.
1:55:21The best American scientists now refuse to.
1:55:23Well, a lot of them do.
1:55:25It's interesting, though, that even at MIT, where you have a fiscal court president, they had a faculty...
1:55:32resolution to stop more research and more production stuff and the faculty voted it down 200 and something to 81 you know why money hell yes
1:55:53looking into the cancer yeah if i were you i'd go to go to gladesburg earlier it's lovely
1:56:29to be on standby.
1:56:33You know, I had, uh, I had Henry Lane Polk here, and I had Henry, I had, and Rose, and, yeah, Rose was going.
1:56:39He was having his second thoughts on everything today.
1:56:43Yeah, I'm telling you.
1:56:46That was the evening before.
1:56:50I think it was before, but he's...
1:56:56I'm trying to...
1:56:57I'm trying to tell how I can see you.
1:56:59I can see you.
1:57:00Here's our friend from this year's evening.
1:57:03How are you?
1:57:05How are you?
1:57:08How are you?
1:57:09How are you?
1:57:12Great.
1:57:13Let's go over here and get a picture of this, shall we?
1:57:18All of this wonderful work you put in this.
1:57:21I saw that 120 hours.
1:57:22You'll get here in a minute like this.
1:57:25And I'll tell you on that side, the one that you put in the back picture.

NARA Description

On May 5, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Stephen B. Bull, and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:47 am to 12:09 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 720-007 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 720-7

Date: May 5, 1972
Time: 11:47 am - 12:09 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman.

     President's schedule
          -John B. Connally
                 -Meeting with the President
                      -Day
          -Camp David
                 -Speechwriters
                      -William L. Safire
                 -Speech content
                      -Henry A. Kissinger
                      -Patrick J. Buchanan
                      -John K. Andrews, Jr.
                      -Safire
                            -The President’s view
                      -Draft
                            -President's efforts
                            -Andrews
                            -Kissinger's draft
                            -Previous speech
                                  -Kissinger collaboration

     Vietnam
          -President's forthcoming speech on the blockade
                -Winston Lord
                -Kissinger's follow-up briefing
                -Contents
                      -Public acceptance
                      -Conclusion of war
                            -Blockade
                -Haldeman's view
                      -Andrews's assistance
                      -Safire
                -Andrews's instructions

                                        (rev. Jan-02)
An unknown man entered and left at an unknown time before 12:09 pm.

     President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board [PFIAB] meeting
          -Dr. Edward Teller
          -Dr. William O. Baker
                 -Advice on speech
          -Dissent
                 -Ivy League college presidents
                 -Media
                       -Networks
                       -Los Angeles Times
                 -University presidents
                 -Religious leaders
                       -William F. (“Billy”) Graham
                       -John Cardinal Krol
                 -Press opposition
                 -Supporters of President's policies
                       -International Brotherhood of Teamsters
                             -Frank E. Fitzsimmons, Joseph (“Joe T.”) Trerotola
                       -George Meany
                       -Franklin D. Murphy
          -Leaders of American society
                 -Failures
                       -Nelson A. Rockefeller's comments
                       -Murphy's comments
                 -Support for People's Republic of China [PRC] trip
          -President of Massachussetts Institute of Technology [MIT]
                 -Criticism of South Vietnam policy
                       -Lack of criticism of North Vietnamese offensive

**********************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 3m 42s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

**********************************************************************

                                         (rev. Jan-02)
     Vietnam
          -President's forthcoming speech on the blockade
                -Andrews
                      -Trip to Camp David
                            -Time

     Haldeman's schedule
          -Trip
                -Return to Washington, Dc
                     -Time

     Vietnam
          -President's forthcoming speech on the blockade
                -Kissinger
                -William P. Rogers's return
                -Kissinger briefing
                -President's briefing of congressional leaders
                      -J. William Fulbright
                      -Michael J. Mansfield
                -Rogers's briefing
                      -Foreign Relations Committee
                -Melvin R. Laird's briefing
                      -Armed Services Committee
                -Mansfield's schedule
                -Hugh Scott
                -President's briefing
                      -Size of group
                      -Relationship to speech delivery

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 11:47 am.

     President's meeting with Delbert L. Latta

Bull left at an unknown time before 12:09 pm.

     Vietnam
          -Clifford P. Case-Frank F. Church Amendment
                -John Sherman Cooper-Church Amendment
                -Provisions
                -Defeat
                      -Likelihood
                -Possible vote
                      -Mansfield Amendment

                                         (rev. Jan-02)
                       -Delay by "doves"
                       -Negotiations breakdown
                       -Soviet Summit
                            -Possible cancellation
                       -"Hawks" position
                 -Democrats and "Doves"
                       -Blame for North Vietnam intransigence
                            -Publicity
                            -The President’s instructions
                            -Speeches
                       -Encouragement of enemy
             -American leader class
                 -Murphy
                 -Failures
                       -Businessmen
                            -Economic concerns

An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 11:47 am.

     Instructions

The unknown person left at an unknown time before 12:09 pm.

     Vietnam
          -Scientists
               -Soviet weapons for North Vietnam
                      -Quality compared with South Vietnam weapons
               -American scientists refusal to work on weapons
               -Contrast with Soviet scientists
          -MIT
               -Resolution on weapons research
                      -Defeat
               -Grants

     Haldeman's schedule
          -Trip
                -Time of departure

Bull entered at an unknown time after 11:47 am.

     Latta
             -President's meeting
                   -Ronald L. Ziegler’s comments

                                         (rev. Jan-02)

Bull left at an unknown time before 12:09 pm.

     Vietnam
          -President's forthcoming speech on the blockade
                -Trip to Camp David
                      -Andrews
                      -Kissinger
                      -Alexander P. Butterfield
                      -Rose Mary Woods
                      -Kissinger

Haldeman left at 12:09 pm.

Also recorded on May 5, 1972

  • 100-002 11:37 AM · 3 min — a White House tour group met in the Cabinet Room of the White House on an unknown date, sometime between 11:37 am on May 5, 1972 and 9:10 am on May 8, 1972.
  • 100-003 11:37 AM · 2 min — a White House tour group met in the Cabinet Room of the White House on an unknown date, sometime between 11:37 am on May 5, 1972 and 9:10 am on May 8, 1972.
  • 100-004 11:37 AM · 16 sec — a White House tour group met in the Cabinet Room of the White House on an unknown date, sometime between 11:37 am on May 5, 1972 and 9:10 am on May 8, 1972.
  • 100-005 11:37 AM · 2 min — a White House tour group met in the Cabinet Room of the White House on an unknown date, sometime between 11:37 am on May 5, 1972 and 9:10 am on May 8, 1972.
  • 100-006 11:37 AM · 1 min — a White House tour group met in the Cabinet Room of the White House on an unknown date, sometime between 11:37 am on May 5, 1972 and 9:10 am on May 8, 1972.
  • 100-007 11:37 AM · 3 min — Ronald L. Ziegler and a White House tour group met in the Cabinet Room of the White House on an unknown date, sometime between 11:37 am on May 5, 1972 and 9:10 am on May 8, 1972.
  • 100-008 11:37 AM · 2 min — a White House tour group met in the Cabinet Room of the White House on an unknown date, sometime between 11:37 am on May 5, 1972 and 9:10 am on May 8, 1972.
  • 720-006 11:40 AM · 7 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Frank J. Rauscher, Elliot L. Richardson, Kenneth R. Cole, Jr., James H. Cavanaugh, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:40 am to 11:46 am.

All 54 conversations from May 5, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 720-007, May 5, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/720-007 (accessed September 18, 2026).