Nixon, Connally & Bull on Treasury Department and Vietnam War

31:13He's a rat.
31:14A rat.
31:16You know, he said, I see things very well.
31:22It's the same.
31:23The press has done all this.
31:25None of it is true.
31:26Nobody knows better than him.
31:27He's quite a deliberative man.
31:29And in Canada, I didn't know the name of Canada.
31:33I didn't realize what he said.
31:36He's a candidate.
31:37He said it.
31:38He said it.
31:38What did he say?
31:42So they talked to Turner, who was a Canadian minister or something like that.
31:50I'll have some consomme.
31:52I'd love some coffee.
31:52I'd love a little cold.
31:53I haven't had much tonight.
31:55Yeah, I do, and I had mine this morning.
31:56But anyway, the point is, he said that it was his mistake, and I said, here, this one can't be.
32:00I'm trying to figure out what impression it was that he had recently.
32:06What a goddamned thing.
32:08I mean, these, of course, have Canadian governments, a bunch of liberals who have been screwing us for years.
32:14That's right.
32:15What the hell?
32:15In our case, it's the thing, one, that acts as if it isn't great, that we're trying to get along with the God that we need.
32:22It's not wonderful.
32:23What a hell of a thing to say.
32:25You know, I don't know.
32:26I swear to God, he's really got that idea behind him, trying to mutter up these bastards.
32:33But he's – I don't know where – Well, there's no question.
32:35I think the man's – he's an ego maniac, this president.
32:38He hasn't changed a damn bit.
32:40Now, what he's done is created your initiatives in the International Monetary Review, and he's made our negotiations infinitely more difficult.
32:46Yeah.
32:46And he's – and all that work – I look forward to sending these people to the United States.
32:54But that's a hell of a thing to have to say.
32:58That's a gas table on your own chair in the Federal Reserve System.
33:01But he said, the truth of the matter is, he doesn't say much in his ten points, but he said it all out in ten points.
33:08And you remember in the paper that I was preaching, he had ten points on the domestic issue.
33:15Well, to my point, the reason that it burns my table is that we haven't talked about it how many times sitting in this room.
33:20I said, please, for Christ's sake, stop it.
33:22Well, I've got an independent position.
33:25That's right.
33:26Oh, goddamn him.
33:27He's got an independent position.
33:29That's what it's going to be.
33:31And I don't have any problem unless we need him for the monetary thing.
33:34But I hear that some people think he's going to sit down.
33:37Well, he's got to go to the monetary thing.
33:41And so he's got so good money.
33:45Did you decide whether or not you wanted to pay a price for Bremer?
33:49No, I said, you know, I have a January.
33:52Bremer also is a looser money man.
33:53I trust him.
33:54I trust him.
33:54Okay.
33:54So I don't, I wouldn't give him a gun.
33:59He just has a master ship that you really want to give him.
34:04No one else wants you.
34:06We can make him.
34:08Well, you can't.
34:10There's nobody who's black.
34:13That's what I saw.
34:15But on the other hand, it really isn't working.
34:18Just like right now.
34:19I didn't need to look at that one.
34:22I didn't need to look at that one.
34:24But you've got the impersonaries looking to fit down under control there.
34:28No, I'm not sure of that.
34:29But I'll say this.
34:29He has to work it.
34:30And as soon as you get this new fellow, Jim Butcher, in there, he'll have to work more.
34:34He's our guy.
34:36Jim Cutter from California.
34:40Thank you.
34:41Well, so...
34:42He's a good, strong person.
34:44I think he is.
34:45And I think they should get him off real well.
34:49Arthur just wants to preempt.
34:50He's done it now.
34:51So he'll have it on the record.
34:54And he planted this story because the press immediately picked up this was his paradigm speech on the international front.
35:00You see, you remember?
35:05about the neighbor, or basically the triples.
35:10And a lot of them, well, he lived, this had lasted two years around here, you remember?
35:14And now he's made one in the International Department.
35:20It doesn't say a lot, and much of it I can agree with.
35:23But the point is, he states in such a way, and handled it in such a way, and he's smart as hell with the press, that it came out of the fact that it was made out of a program.
35:34is particularly smart with the kind of precedent that we're in.
35:38That's right.
35:39There's a hell of a lot of Jews now.
35:41And I, yes, I'll tell you this, I just think you ought to be very careful about how many more you put.
35:50And I'm sure you just like that.
35:53The next time I really need to, I really want to be careful.
35:56Brother Lamar, I'm out of here.
36:01to get a check to see whether he was a Jew or not.
36:08He says he isn't.
36:09I said, Gary, who is Malakoff?
36:10I said, Benang, is he a Jew?
36:14He said, Gary, Benang is a Jew too.
36:16Anyway, he's not a Jew.
36:19But I said, now look here, we've got to eat.
36:21I said, you have to go through the whole, got all what we call Schedule C and above jobs.
36:28And I want the whole damn list.
36:31I said, one thing, I said, I only want, I only want 2% of those Jews, because there are only 2% of the people in this country are Jews.
36:39Of course.
36:40feels as strongly about it as you and I did.
36:43I said, well, of course, you know, there are a lot more of them that are really qualified because they're college grads.
36:50I said, all right, 10%.
36:51But I said, I don't want 30%.
36:52I don't want 40%.
36:53We are not going to have them.
36:55And I said, as far as new appointments are concerned, just go to places where they aren't in school.
37:00In other words, you've got to go to the Midwest.
37:02You've got to go to the South, because there are areas like that.
37:05So I said, I don't want anybody from Harvard.
37:07I don't want anybody from Yale.
37:08I don't want anybody from Princeton or Columbia until we get them.
37:13So they're getting more balanced.
37:15And he said, well, I think you have to have that.
37:18We've got to .
37:18I said, we've got to.
37:20So he said, we're going to have to realize
37:23And I said, I want to look over the whole list.
37:26I don't care how many.
37:27I said, even if we put them on.
37:29I said, we hired some guys, too.
37:31And I said, if we make mistakes, by God, we're going to change them now.
37:36So it's going to be done.
37:37That's why they make mistakes.
37:38And that's the truth.
37:40Some of these fellas change, you know, once they get in.
37:42They're attitude changes.
37:45They become, they even, they become something different from what they were.
37:50Oh, you never gave me that.
37:51Oh, well, sure.
37:55You never know when it gets here.
37:58What's going to happen to it in Washington?
38:00I've seen one.
38:01I use my example of Potter Stewart.
38:03Here's a guy who was on summer.
38:05Basically not bad.
38:07Nice fall out here now.
38:10And it happens to a great many people when they come to Washington.
38:25There are good people in Iowa or Texas or California, but they come here and get
38:29They get captured by this environment.
38:31These luncheon, two-hour luncheon, it also happens.
38:34The embassy crowd.
38:35The embassy crowd.
38:37They're all the same job.
38:38They're all the same.
38:38It's the same battle.
38:39The new veterans parties, how odd is that they're the same person?
38:43Well, of course, you can't be the same.
38:47You're always the same.
38:48This is this.
38:49This is that.
38:50This is that.
38:51You know that.
38:52God damn it.
38:53It does...
38:55the same business group, the same lawyers, the same bunch.
38:59They all signed each other's ass.
39:00Of course, another thing here takes me very far.
39:02This is where we started.
39:05I didn't go to Montreal.
39:05I didn't go for several weeks.
39:06I canceled Montreal because I thought I was going to South America.
39:10But I didn't want to go to South America for just two days.
39:14I wanted to go to Chicago.
39:16spent 10 days to make the .
39:21But here's what we had in Montreal.
39:26Now, keep in mind that this was a meeting of 100 banks.
39:3950 in the United States, 50 in the rest of the world, private teams, no government sponsorship at all.
39:46It's 100 buyers.
39:48And we had all over, 100 secretaries of trade, North America, the government of America, we had the chairman of the Fed, we had Governor Dewey Daniels, another member of the Fed, we had Herb Stein, the chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors,
40:04Uh, we had Peter Flanagan, the chief of average registry, the council of international economic policy.
40:10Uh, we had Arthur Burns, the chairman of the Fed.
40:13I think we had six or seven of the top people in government.
40:19And it's ridiculous.
40:20They all go up there.
40:21Everybody wants to say something different.
40:23Everybody wants to make news.
40:25Everybody in the government.
40:26And it's a self-defeating thing.
40:29But we just do that and go to the business council.
40:31And nothing ever comes out of that, the business council.
40:35Thank God.
40:36I cut people to cut them out.
40:37The business council, as you know, doesn't get involved in that.
40:40We're down the campus up and low because I didn't go and so forth and so on.
40:42And I can't go to call them and talk about it.
40:46It's time that the business council came and said what they were going to do for us, rather than me, rather than when I go and say what we can do for you.
40:56She says, God damn them.
40:57Who stood up for business?
40:58Who the hell was fault of their battles?
41:00Those bastards.
41:01He says, nothing good there.
41:02And they haven't said one damn word in their own defense.
41:04Yeah, not only in their own defense, but let's take them on an issue about Vietnam.
41:08You see them up, sending wires, coming in here like the labor guys.
41:12You see the head of the business council saying what George Meany said.
41:15Now, Meany is a son of a bitch, but Meany's a patriot.
41:17Now, what the Christ is the matter with those guys, John?
41:20Will you tell me?
41:20They got no guts.
41:21I tell you what's wrong with them.
41:24That's right.
41:28are some exceptions.
41:29The first one is the selfish.
41:30Selfish don't think about it.
41:31He doesn't look at himself.
41:31They're winners.
41:32That's right.
41:33And they're winners.
41:35And also they're very established in the types, you know.
41:37The business council is black.
41:39Ha, ha, ha.
41:41All that bull.
41:42Ah, they don't send me to them.
41:43Well, we don't send one or two people.
41:45Oh, we sure send a secretary of Congress.
41:48That's fine.
41:48And then somebody else is a speaker this time.
41:50Rock is one of them.
41:53Well, everybody, my God, I mentioned to you the other day, to all our people out there, probably 15 of us last year, is that everybody got with them.
42:01Because some of the people that ought to be, frankly, kissing us and that, they ought to crawl out on their hands and knees, because you've been there, so I can also do.
42:10When you stop to think, John, of what?
42:15Hubert Humphrey would do to them, and worse, what McDonough would do to them, and even worse, what Kennedy would do to them.
42:21You know what he would do to these bastards?
42:26They know.
42:26Don't they know, too?
42:29Oh, boy.
42:30No, I'm not a bit bitter about it, but I'm very sanguine about it.
42:33I'm not going to go down there.
42:35I told them.
42:36I said, well, the business council's fine, but I've got a hell of a lot of people I've got to see, and I'm going to see them.
42:44You know?
42:44So we take care of it.
42:46The other day, at the time, they consumed what people had discovered.
42:50It's incredible.
42:50Individually, they bought individually.
42:53They had four or five units a year.
42:54They have to come in and buy a shoe.
42:55They want to come in individually and all the rest.
42:56And they're supposed to be the hot shots of it.
42:58So most of them couldn't shine the shoes.
43:02A lot of guys, I don't know, in the business across the country.
43:06You know, I was thinking of some of the stalwarts that I know.
43:11We're not a religious council.
43:15taking a very old man on our boats.
43:16He's now old.
43:18He's 87 years of age and all that sort of thing.
43:20But Jesus Christ, he's made three fortunes in his solace.
43:24And in terms of character, he's got more than any one of those assholes who have in their old body.
43:29He has this little thing.
43:31You remember Bob Abel?
43:31That nice, honest-looking guy.
43:35Bob Abel is the only person on your video.
43:38That's worth more than almost any member of the business council.
43:41Because business council are managers.
43:42They're not owners.
43:43That's right.
43:44But they don't think about that almost quite as much, because you know, a lot of clubs are out in the belly of that house.
43:50You know, he comes from Yonkers, that's right.
43:54He's got a specialty like that in the West.
43:56Well, of course, because he's real.
43:57He's right.
43:57And I would say, look, that's my kind of man.
43:59I love that.
44:00Another one's old John O'Keefe.
44:02You know John O'Keefe?
44:03I know the Irishman, you know, who contributed a million dollars in 19 years.
44:09No, they don't like John Mulcahy.
44:10John Mulcahy is just a fellow that said, all he's got is $50 million in cash, just cash.
44:15I mean, then he can have it invested.
44:18And that's why he gives so much.
44:21He doesn't want to die with that money.
44:23Now, how many of those guys have come in?
44:26If you go over to Annapolis and ask how much they've contributed to our R68 campaign for this time, I'll bet you it wouldn't add up to $500,000.
44:35Really?
44:36Much better.
44:38We're lucky you got up to $150,000.
44:40There may be 5 or 10 guys.
44:42That's right.
44:44If at all.
44:44If at all.
44:45If at all.
44:46That's correct.
44:47And 5 or 10 is much these days.
44:51But anyway, it's a CR committee.
44:56Is he going to do what he was?
44:58But he hasn't gone in years, you know.
44:59And his reaction is the same as ours.
45:01He knows he's going to pick him up.
45:02Well, CR says it's like an old shoe.
45:04That's right.
45:05Right.
45:05It used to be.
45:05I hope he hadn't changed.
45:06He hadn't changed one hour.
45:07And he said, of course, I don't know what that is.
45:09But he promised me.
45:10It's good to know.
45:12It's good to know.
45:18He said, I want to hear you guys.
45:19Bridge, bum, tea at this time, sit around and discuss things in the world about this and that and the other thing.
45:30But I'll never forget that they didn't come around after November 3rd.
45:32They didn't come around after Cambodia.
45:34And the students were riding around here on three different occasions.
45:38I had never had a word for only one of the classes.
45:41I remember .
45:44that there's many things on it.
45:46Don Kendall just joined them.
45:49And of course, he's messing around.
45:52He's got a new wife.
45:53She loves social stuff.
45:55But generally speaking, it isn't their bad view.
45:57No.
45:58But they've got no guts.
45:58That's right.
45:59They're not going to do it.
46:00You know, I'm just looking and thinking.
46:01I don't know whether this is totally incorrect.
46:05As you know, we have a large, wide male reception system.
46:11Boy, they're the heart of America, and they're going to be a hell of a kid in April.
46:16But I have a crew.
46:17They came in and said, what are you going to do with VIP?
46:18I said, I have a crew.
46:19The only business councilman I saw was Russ Leon, who was from Africa.
46:24That's common, huh?
46:29We sent out 50 wires to the business council.
46:31They were condemned on it.
46:33We were saving, we're really saving the honor of this country.
46:37And they know how hard a decision it was.
46:40They think that's beneath them.
46:43to send you a wire on an issue like this.
46:47They think this is the act of an unsophisticated, emotional type of plebeian American.
46:55This is not the act of a sophisticated intelligence business.
47:03They think that they're going to pressure you, that they ought to be able to come in and advise you.
47:10I see.
47:11Now, that's exactly right.
47:11I'll talk to you.
47:12Yeah, that guy was going to tell me about how to deal with the Russians today.
47:17I think that's what I'm going to do.
47:21He does it most of the time.
47:22Yeah.
47:22But what I meant is, he doesn't know.
47:24None of them know.
47:25They all say, oh, Jesus, they've got all this trade.
47:28I'm going to give them this now.
47:30And they don't realize it.
47:31Who knows better than I do?
47:32I sit on a penis all the time.
47:33And I say...
47:36I said, what do they want?
47:37They want X and Y curves.
47:44because they haven't got anything to sell us.
47:46So they want long-term care to start to buy the brain that they need because a third of their crops have been wiped out.
47:50This is the reason.
47:51A third of their crops have been wiped out by COVID.
47:55Second, they want paper nation treatment, which I wrote to Congress for.
47:59I said, now, they didn't want these things.
48:03And I say in return for that, that by 1965, Peterson had written this, that their trade with the United States could equal as much as $1 billion.
48:11Now, that's a hell of a big thing.
48:13$100 billion in trade for a trillion-dollar economy.
48:17I said to somebody here, I said, now, isn't that a hell of a big thing?
48:20You know, this economy's going to grow by $100 billion in one year.
48:23So $1 billion worth of trade with the Soviets, is it all that big?
48:26I said, that's what's in it for us.
48:29What's in it for them?
48:29The things they want.
48:31Computers.
48:31I mean, some great things.
48:34I said, that's all fine.
48:35We're glad it happened.
48:37But the main thing is,
48:39We're not going to give them a goddamn thing unless we get some political trouble.
48:43See, they want our trade, so they're going to pay.
48:46And they just don't understand that.
48:47Of course they do.
48:49They understand.
48:49But you don't give it away.
48:50Those business guys don't understand.
48:53Well, no, of course they won't.
48:55They want you to give them something, so they think they can get something.
48:58Don Kendall wants to sell Pepsi-Cola.
49:00They've got to go to Iraq.
49:02That's right.
49:02And a bunch of others around here have been dying to see you.
49:06And they're all good friends of mine.
49:11And the Texas Easter drive, because they've been over the Russians.
49:14So there's a well, and gags, and so forth.
49:16Well, that's fine.
49:17It may come.
49:17George Kirby.
49:18George Kirby.
49:18It may come.
49:19But I didn't know what he was saying.
49:21No, no.
49:22Because they heard I'm telling you that because they've got a co-seeker.
49:27They want to come tell you what a co-seeker is.
49:29You know what I'm saying.
49:30You know what I'm saying.
49:35John, we know what we're seeing, has said that not only him, but every other body person is talking.
49:40We know it's back there.
49:41Tomorrow night, we know what the Soviet needs from us, and what we need from them.
49:46We're going to make a straight deal.
49:47We don't give it for nothing.
49:50That's all.
49:51And the Prime Minister said, okay, how do you do the running world pressure?
49:56The news, you know your problems, you're still on them.
50:01Well, it looks to me like your guests have had any indication of cancer.
50:05It's too late for them now.
50:07I think they used to.
50:11If they do, they get cancer.
50:13We just went through them.
50:14Tomorrow, we're announcing Christmas at their, at their, you know, their approval, you know, right?
50:17We announced that our recorders are going to go there tonight to have it canceled.
50:20They've already, they've sent us over, in the last few days, they've finally agreed on statement principles.
50:23We have some, we have another understanding that they've agreed on.
50:42Uh, they, uh, there was a provocation yesterday about what gifts they want to exchange.
50:47They want to do hydrofoil, which they're making.
50:49I don't know what that is.
50:51What the president wants to do.
50:53The president wants to divide the cars.
50:54We're trying to work out a Cadillac for him.
50:56So they're going to go forward.
51:00They're going to go forward.
51:02And so all of these doom-criers, World War III-ers, and Turkey, and the foreign policy, and all that, are in doubt.
51:12I think they're coming through.
51:15Now, it's still a blow, but I don't think so.
51:16But you've done it.
51:17I don't know if it's worth it.
51:18I was pretty well prepared to take that heat.
51:23But I don't know that right now, what's happened is that it's hard to realize that we do the best that we can.
51:29Now, as far as Vietnam is concerned, as you know, we've had a couple of good days even on the battlefield.
51:52The reason is that the morale that I feel for the moment has changed.
51:58You know, we talked about how it had an enormous impact on morale of our 60,000, morale of those guys who were just in with that.
52:05It's also had a great impact on these, these down the floor where they keep withdrawing horses and the rest.
52:12They don't know what the hell's gonna happen.
52:15But when we put it this way, they, well, many of them survived.
52:17So those two actions, the one where they, the landing behind the lines and then coming back through another area, retaking the fire base, that's strong, which they did not lose.
52:30You know, that's the way these things go.
52:36But, uh, the, uh, we've been running 1,100 sorties a day.
52:41There it is, this announcement.
52:421,190.
52:43It's just been unmerciful reporting to these bastards.
52:49That's great.
52:50And it's just COVID.
52:50And finally, we noticed about that Red River Bridge, which they never knocked down in five years of bombing.
52:55They never knocked that dam down.
52:56At least we put it out of commission every three months.
53:02And again, several more oil depots.
53:06Oh, I don't think there's more to get.
53:10going on and we used all these people that said, well, like, some said, will it work?
53:15No.
53:17But the others just said, well, it won't work because the CIA said it wouldn't in 68.
53:22It's all again and again.
53:24In 68, the Shino Bill in Cambodia was opened.
53:25It punished 90% of the oil for third and fourth part.
53:28That's closed now as a result of what they did in Cambodia.
53:32Second, in 68, the ports were open.
53:35Anybody could close them.
53:37Now they're totally closed.
53:39So, and third, in 68, they were operating a war not based on mechanization.
53:47Now they need oil.
53:49They need, they need rolling stock in order to, rather than the guerrilla type of war, this sort of thing.
53:56Where are they going to get it?
53:57They've got to bring it in across those railroads.
53:59The Russians have got to ship it through China, across those railroads.
54:03And all we have to do is to keep those railroads out of condition.
54:07My God, we won't keep them out of condition.
54:10With 200 sorties a day for F-4s that go into the Air Force.
54:13Who knows?
54:14My God.
54:16It's unbelievable.
54:17So no, they are going to have a new kind of bomb, apparently, and the rest.
54:21So not to be too sanguine about it, because part of the community is going to go to Moscow and try to hack it.
54:30But I think, John, what has happened is that we've taken a very big risk, a necessary risk.
54:37But by going to the jugular, we finally are going to precipitate this out of this thing.
54:42But it's going to come, I can't say.
54:45We believe, basically, that it will not come in the summer, but be that as it may,
54:52That's their choice.
54:53If it doesn't come in the summer, I mean August.
54:57But if it doesn't come until August, we are going to tom the hill on them so that when they do settle, finally, they haven't got much left to start another offensive for two years.
55:09By that time, it's South Vietnam, East Canada, they never named another.
55:14I don't like to honor the Russians very well,
55:18healthy after the summit, really healthy.
55:21But I don't think I'm going to get credit for the summit meeting.
55:26First of all, they were really healthy.
55:29But if the North Vietnamese come to the peace table in regal terms after the summit, then the Russians can always claim they did it.
55:34In the world opinion, there's probably a little bit of time left.
55:37And I'm not any expert on Russia, but that would just be my analysis.
55:41So I think you're right.
55:48Well, it's, uh, you know, the Russians, we've been, since we last started, we've had two communications twice a day from, from Russia.
55:55So if they're going to knock it off, they're going to almost, you know, you can't, you know what I mean?
56:01They're, uh, they're very, they just can't, because at this point, uh, they have to leave a lot of this much of it and why they can't.
56:06Oh, that's great.
56:08And, uh, but let's say we, uh, have a little bit of both here at this
56:16continuing the attacks, or continuing the pressure, or continuing the bombing of the north.
56:21So one of the most silly, common, old stories is this one.
56:27Some person, not in the state, but a sociopath, did the effect that we could turn off these mines while I was there.
56:37Of course, the point is, it can't be done.
56:39You can't turn them off.
56:41So, you know, and of course that's a sign of weakness, and of course I can't get you to tell me.
56:50The brain says, don't believe that.
56:51We can't turn him off.
56:53We could.
56:53We wouldn't.
56:54We're not going to.
56:56And that's all.
56:56We don't have any more trouble with bureaucracy than that, right?
57:00I don't know if that's what it is, but I think it's...
57:06I think one thing that is kind of extremely encouraging this Monday, I think far better than the media ever expected was the public support.
57:18You know, the polls and everything, you know, we've got, including Harrisburg, we've got it all.
57:25Even Harris did it, person to person.
57:28He said, of those who had an opinion, 68% favored.
57:30And of all people, if you're even including the no opinions, 59 to 24, that's over two and a half to one.
57:39That's a, what the hell is that?
57:42And all over the country, if you go around, it's just, it's fine.
57:45What's wrong is the part of the strategy.
57:48You were very compassionate.
57:48Well, I talked to John again, too, when I was at Pennsylvania over the weekend.
57:53He said, very nice.
57:55And he said, everybody up there.
57:56He said, boy, that's great.
57:57Boy, that's great.
57:59He said, every man, you know, just.
58:02And it's just, well, it's very wild.
58:05It's risky.
58:06When I say risky, it really is.
58:10The thing that, you know, that meeting we had together on that day a week ago, the thing that almost everybody who opposes or does not support strong action,
58:25refuses to do is to look at the alternative that you don't have.
58:31Now, if we didn't have her, we would be dead.
58:32UAE would have been falling.
58:34We would be evacuating Americans from the Nang.
58:36And I don't go to the goddamn summit.
58:39That's right.
58:41That's right.
58:43So you see, the way I saw the summit was down to two meters.
58:45I mean, you could assume it was worse.
58:47So, yeah.
58:52Oh, that's right.
58:52And we still have a few days, you know, to see these demonstrators and this and that.
58:59But the hell with it.
59:00They're not going to hurt you, though.
59:01They'll relax you a little bit, you know.
1:00:02You know, and they've been so stupid.
1:00:04They had these senators up here, both 29th and 14th at the Democratic College, condemned the fact of your action.
1:00:11But they didn't have to do that.
1:00:14They should have known that in 90 days, you're going to know one way or the other.
1:00:18Then they can blame you.
1:00:18As a man.
1:00:19Yeah, now they put themselves on the record.
1:00:21It's a problem.
1:00:22Without knowing what the outcome is, you didn't have any way of expecting to have any election.
1:00:28You should have waited in the most according.
1:00:30But that's how stupid they are.
1:00:31They can't.
1:00:32Well, they act like they're just dying to get out and take the position.
1:00:37Well, also, they're dying to get out and kill the rest of them.
1:00:40That's right.
1:00:41I mean, that goes a bit far, doesn't it?
1:00:47God, my name is just unbelievable.
1:00:48And they had all these arrangements raised by the 14th.
1:00:52But they told me, oh, yeah, I got it.
1:00:53It's a good 14.
1:00:54It's a good 14.
1:00:56But they wouldn't do it.
1:00:57Yeah.
1:00:59Well, anyway, let me go a couple of things.
1:01:01I thought what we would do today is the night at C. Schultz at 3.30.
1:01:05Good.
1:01:05I hope you first.
1:01:06Coffee, please.
1:01:11Okay.
1:01:18I'm just going to tell it.
1:01:18It's going to be quite a shot.
1:01:30The way I see it, when did you come?
1:01:33December 15th.
1:01:34That's when you announced it.
1:01:37You announced it, I believe, December 14th.
1:01:39I actually was sworn in on February 11th.
1:01:40Yeah, but you were right.
1:01:41I was born on December.
1:01:42I was saved on December 14th.
1:01:43You came for a year.
1:01:45And this is just thinking out loud.
1:01:48And this is when I felt like the second one out of it.
1:01:57that, uh, that I, uh, that, uh, that I, that I obtained.
1:01:58He agreed to stay, and I requested an order.
1:02:07I agreed to stay another six months.
1:02:08You know, that period is up.
1:02:08This is now negative.
1:02:09You see, that's what we did for the rest of the 18 months.
1:02:10And we did, uh, and I got a self-serve, but we had talked to him over, and I agreed that he was the best man for the job, and I agreed to take him.
1:02:30And after I get ready to get through with him, I couldn't get by him.
1:02:31I'll say, I need to look over and pray and talk to the child.
1:02:33You know, take the wage, get the devices, and I'm going to carry on some of this for my family.
1:02:45And I don't know what they call the mechanics of it.
1:02:48How will it work?
1:02:49I mean, is it, does he, I will nominate him.
1:02:55I mean, we'll nominate him tomorrow.
1:02:58Yes, right.
1:02:58There was actually, Bob and I talked about this.
1:03:00I'm not sure you can name him.
1:03:01I said, we just have not talked to anybody.
1:03:04I'm not sure you can name him, actually, when he's not in the department.
1:03:08I see.
1:03:10You may have to nominate him.
1:03:11Then tomorrow afternoon, we can chat and see whether or not you can name him after you.
1:03:17I see.
1:03:17But we ought not to cover that.
1:03:20You ought not to name him after you.
1:03:21I just want to nominate him, yeah.
1:03:22You stand by what you will agree to.
1:03:24Well, he is confirmed, if you want me to.
1:03:25Because he didn't confirm.
1:03:26Well, I think he confirmed very quickly.
1:03:29And, uh...
1:03:34All right, say you want to name somebody else.
1:03:36Actually, if you can't name him, that's fine, too.
1:03:39I'll say.
1:03:40Oh, I don't want to have somebody else.
1:03:41No.
1:03:41Well, I don't want to put him to vote or everybody else to.
1:03:45But I think if you could stay until he's confirmed, probably.
1:03:49Also, we need that for transition purposes.
1:03:52We really need it, I think.
1:03:53It's a hell of a big job.
1:03:54And I just don't think he ought to say no.
1:03:57You walk out of Georgia.
1:03:59You see, the thing I'm concerned about is the effect on them.
1:04:04business community and conference and so forth.
1:04:07It's going to be quite a blow to that.
1:04:08You know, they, they, they, George is a, a lot of them, I'm sure, is a, a liberal and economist and all that.
1:04:17And he won't have the confidence.
1:04:18Now, we don't, you and I, but he's a market-free trader and, I mean, a free advisor to them and an art trader to these people.
1:04:24And they've got to learn to know him.
1:04:25That's what that's all about.
1:04:27You know, I had a hell of a lot of that respect by talking to people around.
1:04:31And I will.
1:04:32I had nothing to do with it.
1:04:33I think we just get it out the way that it's not going to be like it's been.
1:04:38Two weeks I was there to get back from Russia.
1:04:41Russia, I would say, you know, I'm not waiting in particular.
1:04:45I'm not in that big of a hurry.
1:04:47Why don't you just make an announcement?
1:04:50You're going to stay right there.
1:04:52I'm not going to do anything for two or three months.
1:04:55I'm going to wait at both conventions.
1:04:57I'm not going to do anything.
1:04:59I'm going to take some time off.
1:05:03And we may, when we do get it for you, we may travel a little bit.
1:05:06We may not.
1:05:07Maybe we're going to go to the ranch.
1:05:09I'm trying to get my personal bearers in some kind of shape.
1:05:13But we may go to Europe for a couple weeks.
1:05:15But we really need to make it happen.
1:05:19See, we've got this new law on how it's on your desk, or on Charlotte, if you want, creating these additional positions.
1:05:26Of course, I haven't done a thing.
1:05:28Not the only thing.
1:05:29So George takes over.
1:05:30He made these decisions.
1:05:33about who he wants to do the first shots.
1:05:36And there are things that come along, and I believe that the movie is going to be a very good one, with George in the background, in Bunch to Furnish, with his relationship with Kev.
1:05:51he's going to be able to blend treasury and budget to a remarkable degree during the fall when you're planning to sell your whole budget and what you're going to need.
1:06:05as much help as you can possibly get of that type to really squeeze this whole budget.
1:06:10And I've been working on it a little bit.
1:06:14We haven't done transitions in a long time.
1:06:16I think what you say about it will be very critical in this respect.
1:06:25It was a perfect call.
1:06:28I couldn't reassure.
1:06:29You know, there were some people that mattered around the country that were not also in that connection.
1:06:37In fact, it occurred to me that there's a very good, good personal connection.
1:06:42And also, there's, there's, there's, you know, there's a few different problems.
1:06:48Well, I think it felt like even, which would, in my heart, encourage you, like I believe Graham, to be, you know, very, you know, very intuitive of this sort of thing.
1:06:56If he gets the wrong impression, you see what I mean?
1:07:01And, uh, just, uh, I think he did well in advance, well in advance, and showed a great deal.
1:07:08So, uh, we'll spend some time with him tomorrow.
1:07:12Very, very useful.
1:07:15I think George is very capable.
1:07:24Extremely.
1:07:24I think he's honest.
1:07:27He's honest.
1:07:28He's able.
1:07:29He's bright.
1:07:30He's diligent.
1:07:30He's hardworking.
1:07:32He's systematic.
1:07:33He's got a very even temper.
1:07:37He'll work well with your staff.
1:07:39They all have respect for him.
1:07:42And I really think he did an excellent job.
1:07:45The thing I had, the way I thought we would handle it so that we didn't have to make a lot of calls.
1:07:53I thought what we would do would be to have the cabin at 1030.
1:08:00And invite the senior staff to sit around the edges.
1:08:07And I would just sit there.
1:08:20And if you could say a word about the whole thing, and then after that, you would be charged.
1:08:23And then I would walk out to the press, and I would go up there, and I would say that.
1:09:17I can say that I can leave it more of a reassurance to people.
1:09:21I'm going to do the work that he allowed me to do.
1:09:24I agree it's the best man for the job.
1:09:46I wonder if you want to direct me on B.
1:09:51Now, Mr. Trump, is Biden going to be confirmed?
1:09:54Yes, he is.
1:09:55Yeah, since they had to do the Senate confirmation, and I had an opportunity, of course, to go to the Senate, if your questions are.
1:10:10The Secretary will be.
1:10:20I thought I'd play in just a light, low-key way, and just press as you come and try to help our team.
1:10:34It really would have been for a year.
1:10:38That has been extended considerably beyond that.
1:10:43I have done my best to help.
1:10:45I hope I have done some help.
1:10:48But more than that, I have done my best.
1:10:50And this is time for me to go.
1:10:53As I've told many of you before,
1:10:59that they have to come.
1:11:02I didn't anticipate that I would be here beyond the year period, but I've stayed conservative beyond that.
1:11:11It seems to me that no man is indispensable in the nines for the time of the United States.
1:11:18As far as those economic affairs, those of which I had any, of our responsibility in international monetary freedom, we had the Smithsonian Agreement in December.
1:11:27We're working on the board for a particular negotiation.
1:11:30Our economy's moving.
1:11:31The control program is very much on track, it seems to me.
1:11:38It's coming out of control.
1:11:40It's coming out of control.
1:11:41There's an enormous expansion.
1:11:42And I'm sure we still have some problems.
1:11:46But you always have problems.
1:11:47And so I suppose there's no good time.
1:11:50We might also say that you, in particular, your initiative,
1:11:56I appreciate the opportunity to serve as a member of the National Security Council.
1:12:04I was sitting in here totally supportive of the president's recent decision.
1:12:09That's why I'm at a meeting with him.
1:12:11So I'd be delighted to be able to talk to him about that.
1:12:13And then if I get a chance, what I'm going to do is say, oh, I can't wait to be done.
1:12:17And just, I don't know of any better time for the president if I move in.
1:12:20People would support me and say, well, what does this mean?
1:12:21You're going to go back?
1:12:22Because this means you're worried about Texas.
1:12:24I said, no, not at least.
1:12:25It has nothing to do with it.
1:12:26They said, well, what does this mean?
1:12:29You're going to go back and try to pitch a political house order?
1:12:31I said, no, it doesn't mean that at all.
1:12:35It means I came up here to try to be helpful.
1:12:36I've tried to be helpful.
1:12:38I've stayed my time plus some, and I'm invested in doing it.
1:12:42They'll ask you, of course, as we were saying, they'll ask you one question, probably a question of that.
1:12:50Well, they'd ask me about, you know, the finesses of the opposite, repeatedly die, and those are the kind of questions that no one knows what the future holds.
1:12:56Well, it's just when you're not going to,
1:13:01uh, be available for future government services.
1:13:03I hope that he had it all.
1:13:05He said, this thing's over.
1:13:06But, uh, that mean that I'm removing myself from the human race or from future political activity or government services.
1:13:14This means it's the end of this period.
1:13:18And I don't know whether the new one will ever start, but if it does, you will know about it.
1:13:24Just leave it at that.
1:13:25So...
1:13:30But I don't want that to hurt you.
1:13:36But I'll play it the way you want to.
1:13:39I think the only thing I think that we should avoid is any of the, I suppose, the speculation of leaving to
1:14:00the president has my full support and then i'll allude to that and i think this is one time
1:14:20I think that's good.
1:14:24That leaves it hanging.
1:18:07And today, did you see where Rockefeller beat over Busty in New York, you know?
1:18:11Busty Marjorie.
1:18:12Crazy bastard.
1:18:14Did he really?
1:18:14I don't know.
1:18:15Well, I mean, he said the court had a constitution three years before him.
1:18:20You know, the liberal street always comes out on the small street.
1:18:25Always the story of God.
1:18:27He vetoed an abortion thing.
1:18:29He vetoed that.
1:18:30He vetoed the Forest Hills, you know, that Forest Hills project.
1:18:33He vetoed something on the throw it out.
1:18:35He vetoed it and said it's discontinued.
1:18:37That's every council.
1:18:40That is not the future of this country.
1:18:42Integrated housing, busing, and the abortion thing is a very close one for lots of people, because, you know, when you think of some child getting knocked up by some black or something like that, that's tough.
1:18:56But for a religious family, I mean, you've got to respect the Billy Grahams and the Cardinal and Cooks that are against that sort of thing.
1:19:03That's the only thing I can say.
1:19:04That's why I say, I just simply say, it's a personal matter for me as to what it's up to people to vote for.
1:19:10Relax the way you need.
1:19:14And Mr. President, after George officially takes over, I'll be available too.
1:19:21Because I say I, when I got out of the governor's office, because of the security circumstances, Mark wants to, we moved the very day to Houston.
1:19:29I just started work on commuting.
1:19:31Yeah, so you haven't settled for 10 years now.
1:19:3612 years already, because the last 18 months I was with Rich and Bass, Mr. Rich had died.
1:19:42And we were working on his estate day and night, trying to wind it up.
1:19:47So it was 1959 now.
1:19:49I had basically no time.
1:19:54And so I don't plan to do anything for three months anymore.
1:19:57It's way out of the subject.
1:20:01And any time you want me to do something, or any time you want me here, I'd be there in three or four hours' notice.
1:20:09And I don't know that I'd do that.
1:20:10Would it be useful, I had thought of this, would it be useful if you were to, you may not want to do this, but if you were to go there or so,
1:20:27not so great for private citizens to go on some sort of a mission.
1:20:40Sure.
1:20:41See what I've been at.
1:20:42We could just go down there now.
1:20:44There must be something we can pick up.
1:20:49I think that would be a way in order to go down.
1:20:51Great.
1:20:52I could go then.
1:20:52Probability would be I'm going to go to Europe and spend a couple of weeks
1:20:57and looking for them.
1:20:58But if we could think of a good old casket of two, four or five of the Latin American things, but they always, all the African countries.
1:21:07Not many people want to go, but I don't know.
1:21:09What we might do is, but I have this thought that's occurred to me since June.
1:21:14I'll talk to you about it.
1:21:18After the Moscow summit,
1:21:25And after the other vote, they were sworn in, you know, again and again.
1:21:30And goddammit, that, uh, that finance committee shouldn't, Russell Long shouldn't get George Shultz in the ass, you know.
1:21:36I don't think so.
1:21:38I mean, I don't think so.
1:21:39But anyway, what occurred to me is that you might go, you could say, well, you've been in the Security Council for months, and you could say just to go in as the President's personal representative to talk about some of the matters that,
1:21:55Well, you know, you've got sort of a banner there that you could, what I can't say about a banner, a re-cover, a cover, a cover.
1:22:04We could pick three or four major countries, Brazil, Argentina, and Africa.
1:22:11Well, hell, it's...
1:22:12I don't know that Africa would be more fun.
1:22:14I just mentioned it simply because I don't mind going there.
1:22:17The only place that's worthwhile in there, you can't go to the southern end.
1:22:19Yeah, that's right.
1:22:20Which I like to go to.
1:22:20Have you ever been there?
1:22:21No.
1:22:21Don't.
1:22:21It's an awful place.
1:22:21But you can't go there.
1:22:23There are these awful blocks.
1:22:32I have to admit, it's not that it's going to break in the Mideast.
1:22:37One of the best places you could go to would be to the Arab countries.
1:22:39I mean, my God.
1:22:41Yes, they love, you know, I mean, I, we get to stand Jewish about our next, we could just take that like a grant to a Christian.
1:22:48And I'll go to Iran and Saudi Arabia.
1:22:54I've been to Algeria on three occasions.
1:23:00Saudi Arabia you could go to.
1:23:02I'm going to go around on this trip.
1:23:03Well, that's right.
1:23:04I'll have that one on the way.
1:23:05Right.
1:23:06But there's Morocco.
1:23:10You could do the northern African countries, no problem with that.
1:23:16Well, that's not something that you need to worry about.
1:23:17No, but I think it's very good.
1:23:18Frankly, if you're going to take a trip, you may as well.
1:23:21Take a trip that has to do it on a mission.
1:23:22In other words, it's going to take all your time.
1:23:25It's over.
1:23:25You go in.
1:23:26You see Medellin.
1:23:29You say, I want to talk to you about the nature of things, about the sun, and everything else.
1:23:37I think it might be a very good doing.
1:23:39It'd be great to go right out.
1:23:43You could go and say, the time's going to be about the 15th of June.
1:23:54You'll be back by the 4th of July.
1:23:56It's going to be a pretty good time.
1:23:58I agree.
1:23:58But I don't need to do this.
1:23:59It would really serve me.
1:24:00Well, I think it would.
1:24:01I think it would, frankly, to show.
1:24:03First, it's so interesting.
1:24:04It's good.
1:24:04It's going to be a big name to those people.
1:24:06The second term, it will show sort of a continuity relationship.
1:24:11going to be very important.
1:24:13And that's been a very solid way.
1:24:14See, yes, we understand.
1:24:15You wouldn't say we're going to not.
1:24:17But we have to show some continuity.
1:24:21Now, we will.
1:24:22That continuity will show after the convention.
1:24:24But I'd like to have something done at this time, say, just before the convention, see?
1:24:29Right.
1:24:30And where you just do.
1:24:32You're going to undertake a mission at my request to these countries.
1:24:37Now, the other thing is.
1:24:44You've never been to... You've been to the Iron Curtain, right, Chris?
1:24:57Yes, sir.
1:24:57Well, see, I would have done a poem to me in years long.
1:25:00I've done a poem in this trip, that makes three.
1:25:02Right.
1:25:04I'm reading.
1:25:04I'm just watching.
1:25:09I have a strong feeling Latin America is right.
1:25:11I just think we ought to show some interest in that.
1:25:14Mexico, I have to do when he comes here.
1:25:16But if you're going to figure Latin America, doing two or three major countries down there, I think it would be okay.
1:25:24Maybe Colombia.
1:25:25Colombia, I'd love to go to.
1:25:26And Brazil.
1:25:27Colombia, Brazil.
1:25:27Argentina.
1:25:28Argentina.
1:25:29That's the big ones.
1:25:33I like to live in Argentina, where we really, of course, you get all kinds of budget amounts in terms of Argentina.
1:25:41It's just not progressively built.
1:25:49They have terrible problems.
1:25:50And could I actually might be one of them?
1:25:54Would you go from this, in this case, that you think would be a very, very good thing for continuity?
1:26:01You know, we met yesterday.
1:26:02I remember when we started.
1:26:04I thought it was one of you.
1:26:08You've got a colored hat over here.
1:26:10But the thing is that our intelligence is not so good.
1:26:13I think you should know, because this is a different church here, I'm going to remove Helms after the election.
1:26:20He's been in too long.
1:26:21He's been in too long.
1:26:24He's a good man, a decent man.
1:26:31But I want the toughest, meanest, most ruthless fellow to kick all the Georgetown bricks out of that agency.
1:26:36In other words, I can't look at him as a CIA man.
1:26:38Now, Admiral Anderson is presently the head of the U.S. Army.
1:26:41Very much.
1:26:42You're lying.
1:26:43Yes, sir.
1:26:43I think he's the right man to be the head of.
1:26:56But I think it means leadership brought us on to that thing.
1:26:58We are strong in that field, just for the mothers.
1:27:01The...
1:27:06That, to me, is the one, is the only one of the boards that I will be with.
1:27:09I'm not going to be, I'm just not going to be with that Angus Army, or the employees, or all the bunch of, you know, I don't know, Snarkers.
1:27:18But the five I've come to once a month, once we get past this staff, they're not going to be with us.
1:27:23We really have got to get in to our ontologists, and this can seem tolerable, I know, I strengthen what I've been doing, and we now are going to get into such matters as the
1:27:32advocacy of our intelligence, the advocacy of our relationship with the Soviet and a lot of other things.
1:27:37And so I think that if you could undertake that, I think that we could announce that, say, right after we return from Russia.
1:27:50How would that sound to you?
1:27:55That's fine.
1:27:56And that also, the other advantage of that job, it gives a good reason for you to come up to Washington.
1:28:02Right.
1:28:04You know, on occasion.
1:28:09Right.
1:28:09And, you know, not that you have to have a reason, but, no, so you're just well-adjusted right here.
1:28:14And then, if you set up our education on the other side, it gives you continuing education and input, and you have access, but you also have access to everything.
1:28:20Right.
1:28:22But that is something.
1:28:23If you're going to ask questions, you can read, you can do all that sort of thing.
1:28:28It's the best way to go.
1:28:30Yes, sir.
1:28:30Let's have that.
1:28:31Bye.
1:28:35Because the main, the main thing that we really, that I think we need for, frankly, politics, of course, is really good advice, but I can't even think about politics until I get this goddamn war over it.
1:28:48And then I don't have a lot of politics, too.
1:28:51But, more important, really, is the
1:28:57It's the whole area of the defense of the United States in its broadest estimate.
1:29:04And that means our foreign policy, it means what we do, it's our stance with other countries and so forth.
1:29:12For example, one thing that FIAT is not getting due to their great credit is economic intelligence.
1:29:18Which we don't have any money for.
1:29:20They're in that now.
1:29:20Now that is something that you write down in your analyst report.
1:29:23I've talked to George about this last fall, but I've told him it's in the management.
1:29:27Well, they've got a commission on it.
1:29:30So, we could, in fact, we may move on that.
1:29:34Put it on that board.
1:29:36It's already due.
1:29:39Sure.
1:29:39All right.
1:29:44Well, anyway, so the Deer Grove tomorrow will be very simple.
1:29:47I'll sit in the cabin.
1:29:48I'll get you out there.
1:29:51I'll be talking.
1:29:53So don't ask me any questions.
1:29:54I'll just keep it as brief as we can.
1:29:56I'll tell it to her.
1:29:57And then I'm not going to have any interviews when it's over because I'm distracted.
1:30:03They're going to be speculating about everything in the world here.
1:30:07including the fact that I'm going home from the end of the local events just because of my approach in Barnsley, Texas.
1:30:15That won't get national in Texas.
1:31:53Now listen, if you get back over to your office floor, it'll be a half off.
1:32:08I see Henry for a minute, but he's back.
1:32:10And why don't I just check in with George's office before you go to see me?
1:32:14Because I'm going to be there in a minute.
1:32:16Would you rather talk to him than Henry?
1:32:20No, I think it's just as well if I see him in there.
1:32:22All right, fine.
1:32:22I'll just go.
1:32:24I'll let you know when I get to see him.
1:32:26All right.
1:32:45George, how are you?
1:32:46Very well, thank you.

Nixon, Connally & Bull on Treasury Department and Vietnam War

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on May 15, 1972

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