On May 15, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, George P. Shultz, Caspar W. ("Cap") Weinberger, and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:54 pm to 5:05 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 724-005 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
Well, with regard to this business, the least of our concerns is on Soviet spy, very simply enough.
That's what I think.
The other things are going on, so anything you want to get on with it?
They recouped Besson.
They opened the road between Birmingham and Besson.
Well, I don't know how seriously they'll try to hold it, but if you remember that Besson was besieged for four weeks before they lost it.
And it was a big headline when it was lost.
It's a good headline in the Washington Star.
Saigon, truth retakes.
We'll see you later.
What is the situation tonight?
I'll call you.
Thanks, everybody.
Hi, how are you?
Yes.
It's a hell of a thing.
Did you have a chance to talk to him?
Well, let me come directly to the point.
It doesn't involve any more money for us.
It doesn't involve any more money for us.
When I had John and I planned on this for a year, I think he only agreed to come three years because of very strong personal considerations.
The year ended in December of last year.
I got in and I talked to him and he was telling us, you've got to stay on.
I said, you've got to stay on for the rush.
I'm just wondering, you had any report on the walls and walls?
No.
He was shot?
No, he was shot in the arm and in the abdomen.
Alabama, yeah, probably is.
An Alabama state trooper was shot.
His secretary, Ms. Thompson, was shot.
What was that?
A machine gun.
He had a Smith & Wesson pistol.
Black or white?
White.
About 35.
What is he?
He was caught.
Oh, yeah.
He was caught.
Wallace had to be serviced.
Yes.
One of the agents was shot.
Yeah.
What was the struggle?
What...
I don't know.
Who is the guy?
I don't know.
He had Wallace weapons on and all that sort of thing.
I don't know.
Wallace's condition is.
And that's...
there's an unconfirmed report from the doctor who treated him on the scene and said he had no pulse but that doesn't necessarily okay anyway the thing is uh we're considering that i think we probably recommend that you not do this movement because you'll be out there trying to press and i don't think you want to be um
We're trying to find out what happened.
There's nothing wrong with him, and that's one thing.
Well, if he's living, I don't think there's a problem doing it.
I mean, I shouldn't.
I mean, the point is, if he's in the hospital and so forth.
Yeah, you sent your physician over to check on him and to offer the services, but that's the word.
He's right here.
There's no problem if he's living.
You know what I mean?
Do you think so?
Because it's shocked, you can't cancel something.
No, that's right.
We've got to get a statement out by you before that, so we've got something covered.
You mean he dies while I'm there?
No, I mean a statement on the shooting.
Oh, sure.
So that's being prepared now?
Yeah.
That'll be encouraging.
Well, anyway, so my arrangement with Senator Connolly was that he would leave.
We're going to announce it tomorrow at the
He will also, in his own voice, as he did last week, make a query and make no doubt escalation into it.
That's good.
The political thing is no problem.
He's not going to say it right now.
I mean, he's going to say it right now.
It's a great loss and so forth that had to happen.
So I'm naming George as Secretary of the Treasury.
I'm naming you as Director of the OPM.
And then you're the pick of you and George.
So we have George as the guy who did the budget.
I mean, it's your system, so that's all there is to it.
That's all you want?
You should be the first to know.
We were going to try to tell you before you got here, but I couldn't lie.
I got somebody for 15 minutes to take an hour.
Well, anyway, it's something that, of course, I mean, you have a very great response.
You work very closely with your member of the Troika, Quadrat, and all that jazz.
It's like the most important bunch of people.
be just tough politically.
The economy would be a great loss.
But on the other hand, he had a point in one sense that he said, as the campaign approached, he would be in an increasingly difficult position if he wants to be political.
As Secretary of the Treasury, it's very difficult.
Well, maybe he can think of some way to be helpful on the outside.
I wouldn't be surprised.
That's a great mark of confidence, Mr. President.
I appreciate it very much indeed.
Well, it's a tough job, and you've had one of the toughest means jobs that I've had.
You know, being director of the budget is tough, but after all, you've got a satisfaction knowing it's important.
Yes, it is important.
And how this will be important, so...
There you are.
Do you get any payments?
Do you get any payment increases?
He gets a thousand dollars on a level three to three or level two.
He gets a couple thousand dollars, I think.
About a thousand dollars.
A couple thousand.
Twenty-five hundred.
Does he get a car?
He's already got a car.
That's not fair.
What does he get that he doesn't have now, then?
The office.
His office is the best office.
Well, I would hesitate to have you say it, Mr. President.
Why the hell should you take his office?
Well, because he has a great desire to serve the public and to do what he wants to do.
Serve the President.
And everybody will know that Weinberger has really been unleashed now.
We've unleashed Weinberger in many ways.
Well, that's very unleashing.
When you look at these in Shanghai, somebody said that was an empty cannon, not an unleashing white burger.
You'll go after him.
Well, it is.
As you may be interested to know, Secretary Conway came over to the opening of our spring here for the budget.
and gave a point of view about how the budget should shape up and the importance of people working on the budget, bringing you a real alternative in terms of a tight budget that would not make it necessary to have taxes go up.
And that could only be done by the people in the budget work.
And I think he really did our people a lot of good and gave them a lot of help.
We have to have that kind of a budget.
I'm totally aware of it.
That's going to require vetoes.
It's going to require- Very good.
I must say that the information that this was the kind of fiscal policy we were going to pursue was presented to the business council in a very general way by Herb, and they took it very well.
They were very delighted.
The business council either wants that or expands it.
Well, one of the two, yeah.
Those bastards are never going to get it.
At this point, they understand what might be coming.
Don't count them.
No, no.
That is the most pusillanimous group of military people I've ever met.
They were very big on price controls a while back.
Yeah.
Price controls.
What are you going to do about it later?
Yeah.
All right.
What are they going to do?
They'd like some cars.
Mm-hmm.
No, they are really a sad lot.
I mean, they're wonderful men.
I mean, nice people.
They play tennis, golf, bridge.
They swim.
They go to the right places.
Nassau at the right time of year.
Palm Springs and all the rest of them.
You know, they're not gutsy.
Kendall is very unusual.
He has guts.
Yeah, he's over there because we recommend him.
It's an incestuous inbred group.
Most of our members have got about as much steep character as the college president, and I need his college.
There was never any doubt about George, Tommy, and I agreed.
And Tommy and I also talked about you at the release.
We decided this a month ago.
I couldn't tell anybody.
Nobody in the staff.
We had to keep it quiet.
I killed all of them.
But it was a unanimous choice.
Two of us, three of us.
Thank you, Mr. President.
Thank you for speaking to that.
It was a funny little story.
I don't know whether it will come out in Russian translation, but it's true.
The Russian, after his meeting with Kissinger, was telling a Russian story about the...
He was expressing his contempt for the educated elite
He said, there was this peasant who had his boy at school, the boy had gone to school, and they went out to the barnyard and saw two chickens.
The boy said to his father, there are three chickens.
He said, what way do you mean three chickens?
He said, there's one chicken there, and one chicken there, and there's one chicken inside of one chicken.
And he said, look, since that's all you learned in college, my mother did this chick and I did this chick, and you can have the third chick.
You've got a whole nation of resources.
Anyway, so much for the professor group and Professor Schultz, and now we've got Secretary of the Trade.
The stock market went down 50 points.
But don't sell, no.