Nixon & Haig on Vietnam War and Military Strategy

4:06:40Call the local utility.
4:06:43Tell her, yeah, when I'm visiting her, I'm going to run her around cheap things fast.
4:06:51Actually, I see the concessions.
4:06:52By the way, I had this being processed through the domestic council all night long.
4:06:58Right, because I was too late.
4:07:00You know what I mean?
4:07:01So now we've made the order.
4:07:04I must get over it.
4:07:05Get shaved.
4:07:05Grace, the name to say.
4:07:07Be sure to look at the book.
4:07:08It's got to be the book I have seen.
4:07:18And she's, of course, raised the money.
4:07:20That's all.
4:07:22And she's had a strong hand in the decoration.
4:07:26Because of that whole big decoration, she had to see who could change that light fixture and dining room up there.
4:07:34Oh, yeah.
4:07:35The problem was that they really needed the same light fixture back then.
4:07:44I just thought they'd been sitting, checked out every goddamn place except a lot of pictures.
4:08:02So, you know, well,
4:08:22But they, I'll tell you, why do they just have no taste at all?
4:08:25We, you know, someday I'll show you the original plans for that place.
4:08:28They don't need a panel at all.
4:08:29I see there's a fire line and when, you know, I said panel, get a panel.
4:08:35No, no, no, let's don't do that.
4:08:36With the light fixture, I know it's going to take a lot because they have to go back and rewire.
4:08:42They can do that in a day, a couple of days.
4:08:44But anything, I don't care what they do, just so they don't have those things happen.
4:08:51I didn't want to raise it.
4:08:52It seems pretty unfortunate, but that was fair.
4:11:04I think it's going very well, sir.
4:11:24continue fighting in the II Corps area, but the two regiments of the 23rd Division are doing damn well.
4:11:32They're really racking them up.
4:11:33They've got 200 more enemy today.
4:11:41Yes, sir?
4:11:43What do you .
4:11:44In the I Corps situation, although I see the goddamn TV has been cynical about the Marines coming back so quickly, that is the way that we're scheduled to do it.
4:11:56There are two attacks out to the west at Bastogne, and now they've gone beyond Bastogne to the first little fire base they lost.
4:12:08So they're patrolling way out, and they've killed enemy.
4:12:14The an-lock situation is...
4:12:17It's still a little fuzzy because they're getting attacks by fire, but the... Are we still behind them?
4:12:24Yes, sir.
4:12:25Very heavy in there.
4:12:28The 21st Division is now about seven kilometers south of Amok, so it looks like they should break through within the next day or two.
4:12:37I think that'll be a good change there.
4:12:43There's still quite a bit of heavy action over by the Parrot's Beacon in Three Corps, and we're doing extremely well there.
4:12:52They just keep killing about 50 to 100 a day there.
4:12:59Well, I think the ground situation looks quite good.
4:13:02I'm not optimistic about the II Corps, but in the last two days, they've done exceptionally well with the enemy.
4:13:10The difference is the enemy's not firing the kind of artillery you'd fire in the II Corps.
4:13:15So these people come forward, and it's flat, open ground, and we're picking them up and retrieving them before they get to the positions.
4:13:22Good.
4:13:31I think the ground situation is beginning to turn.
4:13:37How's the situation now?
4:13:40Are we still hitting the railroads and all that?
4:13:57Still hitting them, sir.
4:13:59As you know, we're going to cut down on a Saturday morning in the Hanoi area.
4:14:06But they'll keep hitting Haiphong, so they're going to hit in close in Hanoi to the bridge there that's about three or five kilometers from the center of town.
4:14:17We didn't talk about those, sir.
4:14:27those situations now.
4:14:33Transformers?
4:14:35Yes, sir.
4:14:37They're hitting those.
4:14:39They're going to hit some of those between now and Saturday in the Hanoi area.
4:14:46There's one big transformer place that's right in the heart of the city, which is not a good one.
4:14:52No.
4:14:52Can you do the two of them for me?
4:14:58Not in the city, sir.
4:14:59Not in the city, but in the outskirts of Brazil?
4:15:03Yes, they can, but I think they're doing so well with them, I wouldn't move them.
4:15:05All right, fine.
4:15:07They're the ones that are going to do it in the other areas, right?
4:15:11They have really caused the deaths in the battlefield before these reports arrived.
4:15:29They, every day they've got a very respectable...
4:15:37They're working on it, sir.
4:15:38One of the problems is in these areas where the tanks are spread out by many, many miles.
4:15:44And they have three squatters and cavalry squatters in the perimeter of the way.
4:15:53So we're looking at that.
4:16:08I just want to be sure we don't have them slip down in our corps, that instead of hitting the way, they might try to surprise us and go into Da Nang or someplace else, because these patrols and these forces have gone way out today, and they really did run into some enemies, but not sizable numbers.
4:16:32I know Mr. Laird, I saw him in the Baptist this morning, and he said in touch with Abrams, be damn sure that there aren't any surprises that pop up.
4:16:36Not against us.
4:16:37Not against us.
4:16:37Not against us, right?
4:16:38Yes, sir.
4:16:38Let's face it.
4:16:40This is the most important thing to do out there.
4:16:43Anything, anything.
4:16:43I'm not sure whether it was the tanks or anything we do.
4:16:50It was just something they didn't expect.
4:16:59What I'd like to see is them do an air mobile operation that gets way behind the enemy in the way area.
4:17:08And now they've gone north not too far, but they put these damn B-52s in there before them and that
4:17:17They don't fight.
4:17:17Otherwise, their morale is broken for a period.
4:17:19If these guys can win rapidly, they can really shock them.
4:17:22Yeah, they can just get in action.
4:17:24They might find that there's more confusion than they might have ever thought.
4:17:32I'd like to see them do that at the antelope by going beyond the antelope.
4:17:37Catch these bastards when they start moving north again.
4:17:40Take them from behind.
4:17:49Was a hell of a lot different from what it was a week ago.
4:17:52It's very different.
4:17:53Yes, it is.
4:17:54The enemy's either been hurt or he's just laying low beyond the point that I think makes any sense, especially in three-quarter because the reins are gone.
4:18:06He's only got really another week to two weeks before he's in trouble.
4:18:11I think he shot his line on an end lock, and I think that's going to prove to be a very decisive battle.
4:18:19Which the South has won.
4:18:20Yeah.
4:18:22That comes out of Ecuador.
4:18:27Yes, sir.
4:18:27Comes to Ecuador.
4:18:28But we've got pretty good troops in there.
4:18:31Good troops.
4:18:32They perform very well.
4:18:36And today they've been out to the west instead of to the north.
4:18:40It's not a spectator because they went out on the ground.
4:18:44Sorry.
4:18:45Pretty good work, I think.
4:18:54The thing I'd really like to see, sure, is a good strong raid up in North Bay, not by the south.
4:19:15That's probably the plan for this now, this week.
4:19:22Maybe they didn't know if you were not going to have a dramatic effect on us.
4:19:27Oh, God.
4:19:27That's what I think.
4:19:28Even though it were just a small raid in force, if they did it around the bin area, I think we'd get all the psychological boost we could stand.
4:19:40I think it would drive the enemy right up.
4:19:43They'd be just scared to death.
4:19:44They'd move that 325th down.
4:19:46They've been identified down in my course after the DNC.
4:19:53I think he was just afraid to take the kind of troops that that kind of an operation requires out of the line down south.
4:20:08But we gave him some, we identified some people for Admiral McCain.
4:20:17He's had people out in Saigon planning for him so he didn't get distracted from the main business.
4:20:25I wish we could have an answer back.
4:20:43just to do something has a hell of a dramatic effect on this whole computer.
4:20:50Well, I agree.
4:20:50And we're getting good press from here at home.
4:20:53It keeps everybody quiet.
4:20:55The retaking of the spaces in two core last night has helped.
4:20:57That's gotten good press.
4:20:59Correct.
4:20:59I guess really now we can do that.
4:21:06But the carrier's on the way.
4:21:11Yes, sir.
4:21:11We've got another carrier.
4:21:12We've got these more squadrons will be going in, but they're going to go into Thailand.
4:21:20So we don't get the static from opening up the base.
4:21:30I think we're going to see a real turn here.
4:21:32Yes, sir.
4:21:33I do.
4:21:34I'm just getting increasingly confident.
4:21:40Better job than bombing in the three weeks, four weeks we've been at it now than they did in two years before.
4:21:57He's got the pictures of them.
4:22:02I'm here to get some over so you can see what they've done.
4:22:09That one bridge has a major psychological barrier and I know I just bragged about it about a month ago that we've been unable to ever get it.
4:22:21Do you think that's been damaged?
4:22:24Yes, sir.
4:22:25They dropped a whole span.
4:22:26It sits in the water.
4:22:32Hit it again.
4:22:34That's agreed.
4:22:35I do like it.
4:22:36These bastards are really beginning to get hurt at home now.
4:22:54I've read your memo very carefully and I'm sure she'll answer it.
4:23:01Yes, sir.
4:23:01And you're exactly right.
4:23:02There's no question about it.
4:23:04I was a note taker when General MacArthur briefed in John to the Joint Chiefs of Staff who went to Tokyo, and every one of them, except for the Navy Admiral Sherman.
4:23:27Admiral Sherman, who has since died, he was a great man.
4:23:34He said, we'll support you.
4:23:36And the rest of them, Collins, Bradley, Vandenberg, said, absolutely not.
4:23:44And he just stood up.
4:23:46MacArthur listened to all this for an hour.
4:23:47He stood up and he said, gentlemen, he said, I'm landing at H on September 13th, or you have a new commander here.
4:23:54And walked in.
4:23:55And they all collapsed.
4:24:09Read that in a random character or whatever, because I know it's right.
4:24:17It is right.
4:24:19Not in the same way that you use tanks.
4:24:25I don't know what you use.
4:24:26Surprise.
4:24:27Surprise.
4:24:27Surprise.
4:24:28Surprise.
4:24:29Surprise.
4:24:30Surprise.
4:24:30Surprise.
4:24:32Surprise.
4:24:33Surprise.
4:24:33Surprise.
4:24:34Surprise.
4:24:34Surprise.
4:24:35Surprise.
4:24:37Surprise.
4:24:38Surprise.
4:24:38Surprise.
4:24:43I think, I know Abrams has gotten the message.
4:24:47I can tell the way he's using the B-52.
4:24:49And he's, that's the best thing we ever did, was to send that guy out there.
4:24:57He's young, he knows your thing.
4:25:00He's just 50.
4:25:04Good.
4:25:05And he's a gun-hole.
4:25:05Beat the bastards.
4:25:06Yes, sir.
4:25:07Understand now, we're not the whole of the line.
4:25:10We're not up to win.
4:25:11That's the thing.
4:25:13They've got to get across.
4:25:15We're up to win.
4:25:16We're out.
4:25:16I agree with you.
4:25:17Well, that's what they want.
4:25:19OK.
4:25:19Kick them in the ass.
4:25:19If they start to retreat, if they pause, mainly when it's quiet, hit them when it's quiet.
4:25:25Hit them when it's quiet.
4:25:26I don't want them to leave until they get ready.
4:25:46Once these guys get a couple of victories under their belt, as they have now, it's an entirely different game.
4:25:51In the first place, they know they can knock the tanks off when they're doing it.
4:25:55The tanks are no longer a problem.
4:25:58The only problem is the artillery.
4:26:11And they make it out of the patrol.
4:26:14They don't get caught.
4:26:15And they get out of the patrol like this and really push out.
4:26:19That's what develops the targets.
4:26:20And you bring the air in.
4:26:23Well, this attrition, I just don't know how the hell they put up with it.
4:26:26I really don't.
4:26:29They're now up where the estimates are about 34,000 killed at the end.
4:26:34That means 89,000.
4:26:36That's right.
4:26:41And you just...
4:26:44There's no way they can take that.
4:26:47No way.
4:26:50I think it's going to be a problem.
4:26:56I think when they come in, they're going to be tough.
4:26:58But I think we're going to have the power now.
4:27:00You've got all your air assets are over there, and we're just really getting the full benefit of that in the last two weeks.
4:27:06It's there.
4:27:08Oh, and now there's the seventh carrier.
4:27:13I think it'll be another two weeks.
4:27:15Oh boy.
4:27:16But it's primarily to protect against any Soviet monkey business in the subway.
4:27:22Everybody knows it's on the way.
4:27:26It's on the way.
4:27:29Well, they haven't announced that one yet.
4:27:31Now, that'll be out probably tomorrow.
4:27:32They announced the arrival of the Saratoga.
4:27:34Announced the Saratoga carrier, but it's on the way to India.
4:27:38It's very important.
4:27:39We're recording it now.
4:27:40We're recording it now.
4:27:43They had, on the news tonight, they announced the arrival of 30 more destroyers, a cruiser, and they mentioned a six-carrier.
4:27:54It's just now gotten out, but it's arrived.
4:27:57So that's a psychological blow, and we get through each other's.
4:28:01Good enough.
4:28:02That was on the way.
4:28:03Okay.
4:28:10Well, we can go.
4:28:12It's an hour ago.
4:28:12It's an hour ago now.
4:28:14We did the broadcast.
4:28:15Yeah, and we're ashamed of it.
4:28:18It's changed.
4:28:20It's changed for the better.
4:28:24And I can tell you, you know, my son has a plea with West Point.
4:28:28He said the night you gave the speech that the kids started yelling in the barracks.
4:28:32Did they?
4:28:33They weren't quiet until 3 in the morning.
4:28:35Really?
4:28:36Mars.
4:28:38It stirred them up?
4:28:39It stirred them up.
4:28:40That whole place, he said, it's just a new place.
4:28:42Right.
4:28:45That's good.
4:28:46Those guys did good.
4:28:48They told me that on the ship he was on, Christ had already held his dream on.
4:28:57And they were, you know, they said, thank God we're going to find him.
4:28:59I haven't, you know, even Saturday night I saw the Swiss ambassador.
4:29:04And his wife said, you know, you won't be told, but she said, every one of the diplomatic corps here, even the Iron Curtain people, are solidly behind this.
4:29:16They think America has demonstrated for the first time the kind of leadership that they want and expect of in this war.
4:29:28It was really a festering problem.
4:29:31They wondered if we really would have put it to them, and we finally did.
4:29:34We put it to them, and they were all damn glad.
4:29:37But I think, you know, the Romanian was there.
4:29:43He didn't like it, but he knew what it was, why it was done and why it was necessary.
4:30:05We take a lot of our problems, they've got a whole lot of problems.
4:30:09Pardon me, Howie.
4:30:10They're really tough, you have to get them grasped.
4:30:12You've got your time.
4:30:13But they're willing to die every one last man in the British name.
4:30:18Why not?
4:30:19On the other hand, there comes a point.
4:30:22For what?
4:30:25What are they dying for?
4:30:27I don't know what they are dying for.
4:30:31And I don't think they know.
4:30:34We've got a few hardcore people.
4:30:36It's just to move another level of political power up.
4:30:39I'll give you some more info on that and some concerns.
4:30:50It's hard going out there.
4:30:52You're just getting hammered, particularly when they're quiet.
4:30:57And then when they're quiet at all, then it just gets jerky.
4:31:03So when they're quiet, what do they do?
4:31:07They bomb the bashes.
4:31:11They just sit there and all of a sudden they're bombed.
4:31:14Well, they've really been pouring it in.
4:31:15I think they've been hitting 12.
4:31:18Last three days they've been up to 12.
4:31:20They've gone full bore.
4:31:24B-52s never, it's either 74 or 75 every day.
4:31:26That's a nice effort this year.
4:31:31We're all heavy on 52s.
4:31:333-corps, 2-corps, high-corps, where?
4:31:38Now the heaviest ones are in 2-corps.
4:31:42because they are under attack in Khantoum.
4:31:45But he did that three-day where he massed everything.
4:31:49We didn't get it read that way because we had two half-days, but he put the massive effort, except for 18 in I-Corps one day, they put 18 down because of the AN-LOC battle.
4:32:02So they had 75 plus 18.
4:32:04He had 75 in III Corps at ANLOC, and then he had 75 in II Corps.
4:32:10So he's done that concentration thing and moved right up.
4:32:17Now tomorrow they're scheduled to be pretty well split with the major effort in II Corps.
4:32:22You don't really think II Corps could be saved, huh?
4:32:30Oh, I do.
4:32:30Yes, sir.
4:32:31I think they're only going to get it.
4:32:34That's how soon now.
4:32:36If they take it, that's as far as they'll go, I think.
4:32:40But right now, I'm encouraged that they've held two days against pretty heavy attacks and turned them back.
4:32:47Without a major, they lost two little bases, which they retook immediately.

Nixon & Haig on Vietnam War and Military Strategy

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on May 16, 1972

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