Nixon, Bull & Haldeman on Soviet Summit and Vietnam War

1:16:17Christmas.
1:16:38Well, you had mentioned, too, you wanted to touch base with John before you go and cover a couple things.
1:16:44The other thing is that Shultz very much wants to spend a few minutes with you, with John and me there, to make sure you go review his plan of attack and what he's doing while you're gone.
1:16:56I'll let you know when he comes.
1:17:11The line was up to him.
1:17:13Follow the common policies.
1:17:15And that's that.
1:17:16I mean, the people that he wants to command, he's still out there getting on with them.
1:17:22He's got it.
1:17:24He's gotten into it and gone over several times.
1:17:26What he just wants to be sure is the way he wanted to do it.
1:17:30So just go.
1:17:32That's about it.
1:17:33I just can't do that much more than that.
1:17:40Why don't we run those in now, though, get them over with, and then you don't have to do it.
1:17:49Well, they need to have five minutes.
1:17:50How about that?
1:17:5410 minutes?
1:17:54OK.
1:17:54But just, I mean, well, get early when it first covered this thing, and then add Schultz 15 minutes later or something.
1:17:57Let it go at that.
1:17:57Oh, all right.
1:17:57All right.
1:17:58So John 12, George 12, 15.
1:17:58John 12, 15.
1:17:58George 12, 30.
1:17:58Just get John.
1:18:15And now, well, 12, 12, you're talking to me about the hills.
1:18:20All right, come on, come on, you can't come now.
1:18:24I've got a few little, about three more books to read.
1:18:27You see, Harry, I've got the last two books.
1:18:29I know.
1:18:29Well, that's why we need to contact them in a second.
1:18:32We've got to get them out of the way.
1:18:34Yeah, I know.
1:18:35Right.
1:18:35Could you let me write?
1:18:36I have no time for an extended conversation.
1:18:37I've got to get one Dan who he has as his partner.
1:18:40Yeah.
1:18:40And it's up to him.
1:18:42Yeah.
1:18:43He said three times five.
1:18:44Yeah.
1:18:46Mr. President, Bob McCloskey called earlier, and the Secretary of State is now calling.
1:18:51Bob wants the Secretary to go down to his 1230 briefing to generally just give a tone about the...
1:19:07That's why I wanted to raise it with you.
1:19:10That's right.
1:19:11No, the president's going to see the Congress at 5 o'clock.
1:19:15I'm not going to have him do this.
1:19:19I'm not a mere goddamn light that's going to do that.
1:19:24Do you see any good in him?
1:19:25All it'll do is to just drive everybody.
1:19:27He'll screw it up.
1:19:27Well, I didn't want to blow that side of the opening off yet this morning, but just once.
1:19:34What does he want to do?
1:19:35Brief on the son?
1:19:36Well, what he doesn't know is that he has to first think about what's wrong.
1:19:39Actually, what McCloskey said in the briefing paper, talking points for it to use, what he would do is kind of brush over likely where the president is going there, not for atmosphere, but for, as he said, for results.
1:19:51We've had ongoing bilateral discussions.
1:19:54Some are ready for agreement, some are not.
1:19:56multilateral thing we would not negotiate with us so that we can discuss these things.
1:20:00You know, I'm going to have to help you get settled and heightened about it, but not get into the... Robert wants to go down and have a reading with the press at 1230 about the upcoming...
1:20:11When I got there, they said, what do you want me to do, cancel my meeting with the press?
1:20:17That's my purpose.
1:20:23I have all the stuff.
1:20:25I have all the technical things and I'll check.
1:20:27I have a card we have here.
1:20:29Shetty may say something very different from what I want to say.
1:20:33I don't think he's going to do it again.
1:20:36So we have to do it?
1:20:36Is it a kiss his ass?
1:20:37Is that the problem?
1:20:38Well, one thing... Well, we have a...
1:20:43The fact is...
1:20:43If you want to have kisses, you do a briefing in Austria Sunday.
1:20:50Which presumably is productive, in this case, if you want to agree.
1:20:55Well, not on details, but just on general broad school things where people go in with a fix on it and put everything in context.
1:21:03It would be more of a building it up too much and so forth.
1:21:06I haven't done mine a lot of days.
1:21:07I don't want to build it up too much.
1:21:09The writer doesn't understand this.
1:21:11He doesn't understand what the hell is going to be on this thing.
1:21:15It's always true.
1:21:20You don't see an element of crisis suggesting that this has been pushed from the left?
1:21:23No, it has not.
1:21:24That's why I wanted to raise it with you, sir, because McCloskey called me and said that he said, well, Bob called me and said, does he know I'm going to do the crisis after November 5th?
1:21:32I mentioned that to McCloskey.
1:21:34It's all right.
1:21:34Does he know that?
1:21:35Well, I mentioned that you were going to do this, and I said, don't let the secretary move until I get back to him.
1:21:40That's why the secretary is calling me now.
1:21:42So, all right, fine.
1:21:44I see you've got a problem, sir.
1:21:45Just so you know, I told him I'm meeting with Erdogan and Schultz at the moment.
1:21:51He said, I don't know who he's talking about.
1:21:54He's talking to me.
1:21:56You tell him that you haven't thought to me.
1:21:59You know, you can't decide where he goes now.
1:22:01He'll go down and do it.
1:22:02He'll go down and do it if I don't say that you're doing this at 5.30 in the morning.
1:22:05Well, then I'm going to do it at 5.30, period.
1:22:07In other words, the point is we don't want to use any of that.
1:22:11I think you've got to...
1:22:14The only argument...
1:22:22There's no...
1:22:29Yes, get Dr. Gistrier to come in.
1:22:30He's at a meeting.
1:22:30I'll have you come in right away.
1:22:31All right.
1:22:32Uh, the only thing we need is to get Bill up and get him out of the way.
1:22:41I brought him to start out setting up the quarry.
1:22:42He's done enough setting him up.
1:22:44God damn it.
1:22:45Now he says he's going to bring his wife to the boat.
1:22:48Fine.
1:22:48Tell him he can bring his wife to the boat.
1:22:50What the hell else does he want?
1:22:51To go to the Lenine Cove?
1:23:14You won't be able to use an identity.
1:23:16The president won't let up.
1:23:18I don't care.
1:23:18That's the point of this.
1:23:19The point is I don't want him to be on the news tonight.
1:23:21God damn him.
1:23:22The president will be on the text.
1:23:24I just think Wallace was on the edge.
1:23:26I just think he's got to get straightened up here.
1:23:28That's all.
1:23:35I think the idea that, well, if he does it, then it's true.
1:23:39If Henry wants to breathe, he'll breathe in Austria.
1:23:43That's no problem.
1:23:44You know, why would he have to say, well, Henry can't unless Rodgers did it?
1:23:49Bullshit.
1:23:50Rodgers is not running the Sun.
1:23:52It covers a lot of things far beyond the State Department.
1:23:55Yeah, that's right.
1:23:57Yeah, that's the other problem.
1:23:58If Rodgers reads it, then why doesn't Peterson and Butts and Rodgers just go away?
1:24:06What's he, what's he, what's he, have you told him that he's going to be in the two plenary sessions, that he will see Brezhnev at the plenary session?
1:24:15I'm not bothering him.
1:24:17He's a private man, Brezhnev, with Rogers.
1:24:23Oh, God, that neighbor, that's her name.
1:24:25It's a waste of time.
1:24:26Why should he?
1:24:27I don't see the board, Senator.
1:24:29It's right on his phone.
1:24:33That's her.
1:24:33I couldn't recruit you more.
1:24:35He's going over there.
1:24:37He's going to be for me.
1:24:50He was watching to see how it came out.
1:24:55When it came out fine, he was willing to go out.
1:25:01And did it right when it went out.
1:25:03Yeah.
1:25:05He thought it was on his plan.
1:25:23for one minute.
1:25:25Yeah.
1:25:51He should not, I just feel, I'm sure he's uninclined, but his tone is so important.
1:25:57I didn't think that's right.
1:26:00I just had to raise one, but Rogers, Cosby first called, now Rogers is calling.
1:26:09And it says that he wants to go down to 1230 and talk to the press about what we expected to sign.
1:26:15Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.
1:26:19Here's the argument that Bob makes for me.
1:26:21He says, well, unless we do that, the progress will object to Henry being a background for the summit.
1:26:29The point is, I'm going to talk to the press at 5.30 about the background for the summit, and I can't have you do it.
1:26:35He's not going to get it.
1:26:37Why does he want to know?
1:26:39What are the reasons that we got this?
1:26:41The only thing that's funny is that you recommended it.
1:26:45That's not the same thing.
1:26:51He wants to be able to say, the state ran the Moscow summit.
1:26:54You have the Marvin Kalbic story today, saying the White House was gloomy about the summit.
1:27:00The state always said the summit would go on and would be a great success.
1:27:05It's not an example of the White House not listening to the state.
1:27:08If Kalb says that, in the name of Christ and our poor little assholes, should anybody take it on?
1:27:13No, he can't.
1:27:14But if you could take things on...
1:27:18That's a goddamn lie.
1:27:20It's a total lie.
1:27:21Well, the State Department, Bill Rogers, sat in the NSCB store and put it out.
1:27:26This has got to be done.
1:27:28Rogers in the NSCB said it will sink the sun.
1:27:32He said it to Dr. Connolly afterwards.
1:27:34Connolly said he was floating that it wouldn't sink the sun.
1:27:38He said it would sink the sun.
1:27:54He's not going to be invited to that now.
1:27:56Is that clear?
1:27:57Are we inviting everybody, or is he not?
1:27:58Well, we've invited the staff people, but not the staff.
1:28:00Well, don't invite him.
1:28:02It's just, this is for the purpose of the press.
1:28:06Don't you agree with me?
1:28:07Oh, yeah.
1:28:08I see no reason for robbery.
1:28:09I'd be glad to stay away if that doesn't work.
1:28:12No.
1:28:12I said we invited the staff.
1:28:14We dropped that.
1:28:15We told them to come, but we don't have to.
1:28:20I'm not so sure you want them.
1:28:22Don't have the shape.
1:28:24Don't have the shape.
1:28:25And that way, the rockers, they're going to be there.
1:28:28And you're going to rock them.
1:28:29Nobody's going to rock them.
1:28:31Otherwise, they're going to be there.
1:28:33We'll have Henry not come.
1:28:35No, Henry wasn't coming.
1:28:35But have the sapphires and the clines and the bicep and so forth.
1:28:38Well, that's what I think.
1:28:40It's people who work with the press, aren't we?
1:28:43That's a good idea.
1:28:44Get him out of the way, though.
1:28:46I'm going to.
1:28:46And say, well, the president is going on at 530 and is learning to cover.
1:28:50He's done a lot of thinking about this, and he wants to cover it.
1:28:53And then I don't think we should even worry about the relationship of the ability or background to consult, sir.
1:28:59Listen, from now on, we're not worried about anything but what the hell helps us.
1:29:03And that's it.
1:29:03And I'm tired of this bullshit coming in here all the time.
1:29:10Jesus Christ, I'm having a hard time.
1:29:18About the fact that, you know, he was a hawk-minded.
1:29:20Well, we're limiting our targets too much.
1:29:24He has an airy voice.
1:29:26Really?
1:29:27Because that's being put out.
1:29:28And he said, well, why are they putting it out?
1:29:31Because the fact is, Mr. President, that we are not limiting them.
1:29:36That's the plan.
1:29:37And, David, I have really reached a view, Mr. President, that you cannot have him in this treatment center.
1:29:43That guy is going to be a changing house.
1:29:51Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:29:56Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:30:14We have given them everything, and they sold anything to him.
1:30:16And why didn't the little anthro get into this?
1:30:19Because he's our friend.
1:30:22That's the same guy.
1:30:23Is that layered again?
1:30:24All right.
1:30:24I want the little anthro called on the phone.
1:30:27You call him on the phone and say the president was shot.
1:30:33The President is very disappointed in the performance of our air there.
1:30:38I want you to say that.
1:30:40Do you understand?
1:30:41I am very disappointed that they have to have a 4,000-foot season when Israeli planes would go.
1:30:46You see, fans can do it at 1,000 feet.
1:30:48I am very disappointed in their efforts, and I want them to get off their asses and do what they're supposed to do.
1:31:08I read the, I read last night the whole salt thing, and I think that's got to be a couple of titties on the bench.
1:31:31You know, you're always thinking of the Majora's Sin types.
1:31:34Listen, they would suck around anybody.
1:31:37But you understand the Hawks think we're already too weak.
1:31:41And now they think they're going to freeze America into the position of inferiority.
1:31:45That is the problem.
1:31:46But we can show them that we are going to be inferior, more inferior if we didn't have this.
1:31:52That's an awful weak case.
1:31:53You see, freezing them is one thing.
1:31:56But we're going to be more inferior to them.
1:32:03And I get that on this thing.
1:32:07I have to act better because of Christ.
1:32:09It's Christmas for His people.
1:32:11That's His thinking anyway.
1:32:13What in the name of Christ more could we be doing in our lives?
1:32:15I voted the leaflets.
1:32:16We voted the bomb.
1:32:19We voted the mine.
1:32:20We voted everything else.
1:32:21Now what in the name of God is the trouble that we're in?
1:32:24We better get somebody over here and probably have to run a man-fat spot.
1:32:30This has been a total rush.
1:32:34The reason is that we just haven't had, I don't mean at all, I don't mean at all, but I mean in terms of what we're doing, in terms of our program, defensively, it's a band.
1:32:44We're watching them.
1:32:45Instead of telling us to go, I think maybe we've got to let it go now.
1:32:50I'm so sick of that.
1:32:51If it's not abused on that moment, we've got to help.
1:32:53We've got to come up with a deal.
1:32:55Matt, do you want to go there?
1:32:56He said he's already announced.
1:32:59He said he can't call right now.
1:33:04I told him, you said you'd come this afternoon.
1:33:06And he said, well, you'll stay away for the summer thing.
1:33:09And he said, you haven't been encouraged to do it to take on Clifford.
1:33:12And, uh...
1:33:17The thing to do is to say that as far as some of the concerned plans are going forward, the President is going to be speaking to the
1:33:50God damn it, that's what he should do.
1:33:51He doesn't know anything about it.
1:33:53He doesn't know what's going to happen.
1:33:54It's not even his life's idea.
1:33:57Yeah, what does he want to do about it?
1:34:00Does he still want to set this on me?
1:34:02That's all.
1:34:06to do is try to put out all the agreements the president is going to cover the sound of the night at 5 30 and he can say he's going to cover that also
1:34:31And he shouldn't leave the impression that everything...
1:35:07You call him now, and then I'll call him in about 10 minutes.
1:35:11Yeah.
1:35:12And back up saying, you know, it's just terribly important that he doesn't get into the sermon at all.
1:35:20Yeah.
1:35:21Okay.
1:35:21I have one thing that's been made about it.
1:35:32It's been sabotaged for three weeks now.
1:35:34However, I think it would be a mistake just before you go to Moscow to drop leaflets over Hanoi when we promised the Russians we would do nothing new.
1:35:43At that moment, I thought it was really going to be conservative.
1:35:47Well, it's a state now got a whole program.
1:35:51I thought when I said nothing new, we were already doing everything we could bring.
1:35:55I'm so far behind.
1:35:57Where the hell is that last book?
1:35:59I haven't done it yet.
1:36:29I've already told him on the phone, but maybe he's got to be told right now.
1:36:43We have got to do something about that story.
1:36:49I think we have to sign it.
1:36:53It costs a lot of money.
1:37:01900 million a year for the next five years.
1:37:05Jesus Christ.
1:37:06A lot of us guys are pretty old, you know, but this goes on forever.
1:37:11This just goes on and on.
1:37:13And it blankets in brothers and sisters and all that.
1:37:18The whole point here is this.
1:37:20If you veto it, we can, yeah, and Bob Bird suggested that there's some things we can do administratively.
1:37:26But the point is that if you veto the damage, we take a lot of political damage.
1:37:32We probably lose ours more.
1:37:36We take damage in Pennsylvania and Ohio.
1:37:40You might have to park in Illinois.
1:37:44Yes, we sustain it in the House narrowly.
1:37:47But then, as Bert says, I understand.
1:37:49As Bert says, hell, go ahead, veto it, be sustained.
1:37:52When the new Congress comes back, he said, we're just going to pass it over again.
1:38:00He said that nobody voted against it in the Senate.
1:38:04Only 120 guys voted against it in the House.
1:38:06And so he said, if you're really doing this on a budget basis, I think we better do it in terms of basically
1:38:18That's just one damn thing.
1:38:20That's the angle.
1:38:21And I have the floor.
1:38:22Okay, John.
1:38:24Bert started out and he said it's a lousy bill.
1:38:26He said, I'm for the president.
1:38:28I want him to be reelected.
1:38:30And he said, I'm just telling you, it's going to hurt him.
1:38:33It's not just going to hurt him in the western way.
1:38:36I don't want you to say a word to anybody right out in the theaters.
1:38:49We should put it out and I think we should do it Saturday or Sunday.
1:39:05And also, you need to call our agents, right?
1:39:09We talked to him this morning.
1:39:11What's the .
1:39:12Yes.
1:39:12He says he's sunk if you veto it.
1:39:18He says he loses.
1:39:19And .
1:39:20This fellow is obviously a little off his rocker, yeah.
1:39:24But I'm inclined to think he may not have been a lawless man.
1:39:27He wasn't.
1:39:29Now, there's something you don't have, and that is a handwritten diary.
1:39:35It's very hard to read when you get back from Russia.
1:39:37I haven't had to transcribe so you can read it.
1:39:40The guy's smart as hell.
1:39:42And he didn't really care whether he shot Wallace or McGovern or who the hell he shot.
1:39:48And he was just out for two things.
1:39:50He wanted to be immortal, and he wanted to make some money on his diary.
1:39:57It's just like that.
1:39:58I think he wore the buttons.
1:40:01Yeah, he had a McGovern button.
1:40:04He had a McGovern button.
1:40:06He was going to wear that if he got into a McGovern crowd.
1:40:09Does he realize how bad off he is?
1:40:31Yeah.
1:40:31Yeah.
1:40:32Yeah.
1:40:32Yeah.
1:40:32Yeah.
1:40:56Real quickly, a couple other things.
1:40:59Well, I went out on a brief this morning on busing.
1:41:03I got your memo about the constitutional amendment.
1:41:09So I said, we can't take the conference report.
1:41:13It's either fast, fair, or final.
1:41:17The Congress ought to be able to act within six to eight weeks on this.
1:41:21If they don't, then we have to take another look at our whole card.
1:41:24I didn't say it in that bold term.
1:41:26Somebody said- We agreed on our position.
1:41:29Yeah, they said, would the President rather have no legislation than this legislation?
1:41:34And I said, that isn't the question.
1:41:35There's still plenty of time in this Congress to adopt the President's legislation, and it ought to be done within six or eight weeks.
1:41:41And you made clear this is an inadequate piece of legislation.
1:41:44Very, very clear.
1:41:44Let me say this.
1:41:48John, whether we like it or not, and scan the surveys and show this.
1:41:50And Lexington, I respect your old domestic counsel, Brown and Harper, and the price of all that lunch you got.
1:42:12Honesty and integrity.
1:42:14They don't want their asses first based on politics.
1:42:17In terms of cutting issues, this is a bus company.
1:42:21It's a great step in service, and it has to do, and frankly, we cannot force this country.
1:42:25It's wrong.
1:42:26We cannot force it.
1:42:27I have this opportunity to put down the words freedom of choice.
1:42:30I'm the resurrection, and I'm going to use it.
1:42:33That's going to be our thing.
1:42:34Freedom of choice in housing.
1:42:35Freedom of choice for schools.
1:42:44What's wrong with the code word?
1:42:46So it's only by God that's before him, not the freedom of choice that had been his purpose, avoiding the end of the dual school system, but freedom of choice.
1:42:57Would you want me to float that?
1:42:58Yes.
1:42:59All right.
1:42:59All right.
1:43:00I'm going to go over there to Michigan and drive in a week or two.
1:43:04The president believes that a person should be free to move to any neighborhood that he wants to, free to go to any school that he wants to, but not forced to do anything.
1:43:12That's America.
1:43:14Freedom of choice.
1:43:14Correct.
1:43:15Let me get that out and around.
1:44:31Now the New York Times, though, for the same conference report, came out with their lead editorial today and played with the conference report.
1:44:38Can I, what do I do with the conference?
1:44:41Just veto it?
1:44:42No, no, no.
1:44:43You can sign the damn bill.
1:44:45All I've said, they asked me, would you veto it?
1:44:47And I said, no.
1:44:48It's so people that it falls so far short.
1:44:52Well, I don't veto messages.
1:44:53This is a totally inadequate answer to the problem.
1:44:58Yep.
1:44:58It's adequate.
1:45:00We put him on notice today that this was no substitute for busing legislation.
1:45:09That's the line we're going to try and press.
1:45:13Welfare reform.
1:45:15Richardson is nearly out of control.
1:45:19He is furious at me.
1:45:21And he's written you a memo which says, in effect, he wants to compromise with Ribicon.
1:45:27now what i'm going to do before you leave we're not going to come that's right see that's the point and and i sent a memo around so again at hudson for that effect now what i'm going to have to do is draw something for you that are
1:45:49No, no, just philosophy, just ideology.
1:45:52HR1 is as far as you go, period.
1:45:56That's it.
1:45:58That's it.
1:45:58And so I'll have that in for your signature.
1:46:02uh i don't know what he'll do i think he'd be a good soldier but uh now george is going to hit you on the question of whether his confirmation should not precede clinton's what's the matter with us up there as long as his is hanging fire
1:46:31So, uh, the... Why would Colin and Chris be so selfish?
1:46:34Well, I don't think it's really selfish.
1:46:36I think he thinks that somebody made a mistake and that you didn't know about it.
1:46:42And, uh, so I think all you need to say is if that was your signal to Clark that, uh, you wanted him taken in that order.
1:46:50And we're going to gear it up so that if the confirmation comes through, why you're gone.
1:46:55Clint Eastwood is immediately sworn in just by a court clerk or a Republican or somebody.
1:46:59And I'm going to swear in Schultz or Clint Eastwood tomorrow.
1:47:01I think that's one of the reasons.
1:47:03I think that's one of the reasons.
1:47:05Why should I tie into this thing?
1:47:07I mean, Schultz got down and I said the nice thing about him.
1:47:11Why do I go over there?
1:47:19Two other small, well, not small, but quick.
1:47:22Revenue sharing.
1:47:23Connolly and I both feel that if the House passes revenue sharing on Thursday, there should be no elaborate celebration.
1:47:33No, sir.
1:47:33Just a statement saying, for the one on the floor, something very low key and or
1:47:41And then I just want to let you know that on MIT, that cap has come up with a formula that does the job you want to do with a minimum amount of political damage.
1:47:51And so I've told him in your name to go ahead.
1:47:56Well, in the way that it's done, I mean, the money dries up, but we don't make a big show of it.
1:48:03We don't let him pin it on you as retribution.
1:48:07And what we do is we quietly have the word to the agency that those contracts are just not to be renewed.
1:48:12Yeah.
1:48:15Yep.
1:48:16The other thing to do would be to send a memo around and draw the fire.
1:48:27Yep.
1:48:27Yep.
1:48:27But don't get caught.
1:48:29Okay.
1:48:29Okay.
1:48:30Well, that's where I thought you were.
1:48:35Well, I still got them on us.
1:48:38Okay.
1:48:45Well, actually, the guy was in the state with the toughest gun control law in the country.
1:48:55The thing that the damn gun control law does is it disarms the citizen.
1:49:01So far, nobody's brought us a good one.
1:49:09By and for us, it's going to be working.
1:49:25I'm saying that we, uh, we, we, uh, that we would urge the Senate to measure some of this matter.
1:49:31Oh, sir.
1:49:31We favor it in principle, and we'll look forward to whatever they do without something.
1:49:36Yes, sir.
1:49:36You bet.
1:49:37We've already got the press office position.
1:49:39Well, the press office is perfect.
1:49:41It's a position I wonder if you should...
1:49:43I'll say something about it tomorrow.
1:49:46I'm going to make a speech at the Philadelphia, and I'll play with that.
1:49:49You can say that it should be...
1:49:55I'm just wondering if you could just talk to that citizen.
1:50:01Okay, I'll talk about it.
1:50:02I'll see if we can get a little link up for Sonny.
1:50:08Okay, sir, have a good trip.
1:50:09Let us know if we can do anything for you down here.

Nixon, Bull & Haldeman on Soviet Summit and Vietnam War

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on May 19, 1972

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