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Conversation 726-008

TapeTape 726StartFriday, May 19, 1972 at 12:55 PMEndFriday, May 19, 1972 at 1:04 PMTape start time02:17:11Tape end time02:26:25ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Porter, William J.;  Kissinger, Henry A.Recording deviceOval Office
AI Summary

President Nixon met with William J. Porter and Henry Kissinger to discuss the deteriorating state of the North Vietnamese offensive and the resulting strategic opportunities for the U.S. in Paris peace negotiations. Nixon expressed significant frustration with military leadership regarding air strike restrictions and ceiling limitations, demanding that bombing missions against North Vietnamese supply lines continue aggressively. The group ultimately agreed that the U.S. should maintain its current pressure and refuse a plenary session in Paris until private negotiations yield substantive progress.

Vietnam WarParis Peace TalksAir strikesMilitary strategyPrisoners of warNorth Vietnamese offensive
AudioNARA Description

On May 19, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, William J. Porter, and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:55 pm to 1:04 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 726-008 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 726-8

Date: May 19, 1972
Time: 12:55 pm - 1:04 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with William J. Porter and Henry A. Kissinger.

                                    (rev. Jan-02)

Greetings

Porter's schedule
     -Travel
     -Children

Vietnam
     -Paris talks
     -North Vietnam Strategy
           -Le Duc Tho
                  -Stay in Paris
                  -Stops in Peking and Moscow
     -North Vietnam offensive
           -Losses
           -US and South Vietnam counter action
           -US bombing
           -Limitations
           -People’s Republic of China [PRC] trip
           -Ceasefire
           -South, North
           -Prisoners of war [POWs]
           -Purpose
     -Blockade
           -Harm to North Vietnam
           -President's peace terms
           -State Department response
                  -Foreign service
           -Pentagon response
                  -The President’s view
     -Air strikes
           -Adm. John S. McCain
                  -Talk with Spiro T. Agnew
           -McCain
                  -Restrictions
                        -Ceilings
                  -The President’s trip to the Soviet Union
                  -Talk with Henry A. Kissinger
                  -Future
                  -Orders from President
           -Damages
                  -Aerial photographs
           -PRC border

             -Restrictions
                   -Reason
             -Targets in Area
                   -Bridges
                   -Railroad marshalling yards
             -Railroad marshalling yards
                   -Damage
                         -Photographs
             -Restrictions
                   -Response
                         -Basis
      -Effect
             -Railroads
             -Trucks
                   -Limitations
             -Railroads
                   -Pontoon bridges
             -Trucks
                   -Usefulness in moving supplies
-Paris talks
      -Porter's role
-Plenary session
      -Timing
             -Private session
      -President's offers
             -North Vietnam responses
             -North Vietnam counter offers
             -Soviets
      -Possible North Vietnam offer
             -Likelihood
             -Return of POWs for US withdrawal
-North Vietnam offensive
      -Failure
             -Signs
                   -New York Times, Washington Post
             -Army of the Republic of South Vietnam [ARVN]
             -Nguyen Van Thieu's position
             -Commentaries
                   -New York Times
                   -Washington Post
                   -Time
                   -Newsweek
                   -Networks

                             -The President’s view
           -Paris talks
                 -Porter's work
                        -Foreign Service evaluated
                             -Bureaucrats
                             -Soviet Union

Porter and Kissinger left at 1:04 pm.
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Well, I'm not so sure that, you know, he was going down to hit the Clark Clifford thing.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
He was going to, on the summit, what he said he was going to say, and I don't know whether he was or not, was, so if I'm asked about the summit, he said, I didn't realize the president was having this thing today.
But I will, of course, say that the president will be.
general point that this is an important meeting and that there's a lot of things at hand and none of them have been decided.
What do you mean?
He said that he had a picture clearly in the run and he played it exactly, so I mean, when did we hear, how in the hell was, for example, this call didn't get out to the effect, I mean, exactly, that, that the, that Buck Henry said?
Well, to be perfectly frank, it got out to Henry, who said to Cal, at a dinner party,
But both caps there.
Did the summit thing look like it was very much a doubt?
Well, it did at that point.
That was way back.
I'm trying to see.
How are you?
How are you?
Nice to see you.
Nice to see you.
Just once, I've had a call.
I'm going to be here.
Well, I was planning to speak to you.
I believe that's what you're.
Well, I, uh... Actually, I wouldn't do it dead with my children, but... Oh, you're going to have to do that?
No, no, no.
It's just great.
It's great.
It's good that you can.
And, uh... Well, I don't know if you have any of the parents that want you out to stay or if you're more lost.
Well, I'll stay wherever you want me to, sir.
But, uh, we'll have something to do.
Uh, this place is extremely interesting.
I can at least, uh, contribute something to the scene.
I think that, uh, they're trying to position themselves to...
Do something quickly.
And that's why the Yacht-O is kept in Paris.
It's not an easy matter to move a man from Hanoi, especially a polar bear man, from Hanoi into Paris because the protocol requires that he stop two days in Peking and stop in Moscow also to balance things up.
And there's at least two or three days' travel involved.
So I think they've just made up their minds that he's going to have something to say sooner or later, and I don't think that what he will say eventually will perhaps resemble what they hoped he'd have to say.
Bill thinks that their offensive is way out of Kildare now.
Oh, I have my own.
They're getting killed.
They're getting killed.
And when?
Well, next week.
I mean, I mean, the biggest error we've made was...
Maybe some of the bridges are not together.
Well, we didn't have the excuse then.
Well, I think it's harder to get it out.
The die is cast and we cannot have a situation, having cast this diver, we worry about somebody saying, well, maybe we shouldn't get this one or that one or the other.
It's certainly weird.
I think they're going for ceasefire sooner or later, but ceasefire not involving South Vietnam only.
I think this is the activity in the North.
They'll do it to create a diversion, if nothing else.
They haven't got there and reached their objectives in the South by any means, and that will not be the main motivation.
But if you keep up giving them this kind of punishment,
uh what are we doing in the north will become even more important than what they haven't achieved in the south well there's no like i think there's no like we should get the ceasefire or return to our people about this unless you're doing something that lasts for years and uh they're going to get a little more we're not doing enough action now well there's a lot
I just can't tell the McCain.
Yes.
Well, what the hell did he say?
What the hell did he say?
They won't bomb.
They haven't bombed for four days because they say that the ceiling isn't high enough.
5,000 feet, after Christ's sakes.
How in the name of God?
I mean, we should be hitting the North before this trip every goddamn day, right?
Yes.
Do you know what I mean?
Our parking?
No, sir.
Well, he said he'd have to check in, too.
I said I've never seen the president so angry.
I said, he's going to see it a lot more because he's supposed to be our guy.
And he wants to stay on the job, and I want him to stay on.
I like him.
But then if not this way, he's going to start taking his orders from here or else I'm not going to have this crap anymore.
You know, I looked at the pictures.
I never look at Don pictures.
The only restriction we put on them until tomorrow morning is a 20-mile zone near the Chinese border.
We should volunteer China because they know that the Chinese border is an unnecessary irritant.
And, of course, it's not necessary.
There are only three targets in that area.
One is two bridges.
One of those bridges is right on the border that connects China.
We cannot hit them.
We've taken out the other bridge and the third dock in our railroad marshalling yards, where they switch from one track to the other.
And we have equipped that picture halfway accurate.
We've destroyed those marshalling yards 100%, which you'd never get.
I mean, they got some lucky hits, and they seem to have leveled those completely.
So I don't know what these guys are talking about.
There's no train moving right now between Hanoi and the border.
And no trucks.
They haven't ever used the border.
They haven't started it.
well it's not a doable proposition anyway to put 200 200 000 tons of supplies on trucks
But one day it may eventually come.
And when it does, then you get to learn your money.
He agrees that we shouldn't have a plenary session until we've had a private session that had real progress.
Absolutely.
Otherwise, you have a plenary.
You see, you have a plenary session.
Then everybody here in this country will say, well, let's stop the bonding while we have the plenary session.
No, no.
They sold us that once.
They're not going to sell it again.
You've got them at a disadvantage right from the moment you put the offer through, regardless of which channel you use.
And that's the way to go at it.
And also, the last term, the public is quite convinced that they came and said nothing.
More than nothing.
That's right.
And we've now got them in a position where they're...
It's their move.
It's their move.
And we can say this.
We offered through the Russians to meet with them on the 21st in every match.
Do you think they might offer that clear plan, which, of course, I suppose, in desperation, they might now say, POWs or withdrawal?
We will never accept it.
But they do.
No.
I don't think they're going to do it.
They've got so many other things.
The O.W.
's withdrawal is so contrary to everything they've said and have a still saying that the turnover of that nature is very difficult.
I don't know what Bill thinks, but I think their actions prove that the New York Times and Washington Post isn't right that they have one in the South.
If they thought they had one in the South, they would offer this.
Because then they'd get us out and knock over the oven.
But what they're asking of us is that we should knock over too.
Because they still have to ask if they haven't achieved their objectives.
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