Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 726 › Conversation 726-013
Nixon, Byrd & Ehrlichman on Black lung benefits bill and Veto power
Friday, May 19, 1972 · 4:05 PM–4:13 PM ET · Oval Office
AI Summary
President Nixon met with Senator Robert C. Byrd, John Ehrlichman, and Clark MacGregor to discuss the pending black lung benefits bill. Acknowledging the fiscal concerns and potential budget implications, Nixon informed Byrd of his decision to sign the legislation, concluding that a veto would likely be overridden by Congress. They coordinated a public relations strategy for the announcement, agreeing that Byrd would signal his satisfaction with the meeting to the press while emphasizing the President's careful deliberation of the budgetary and humanitarian factors.
- Black lung benefits bill
- Veto power
- Federal budget
- Congressional relations
- Public relations
- Legislation
Audio
Download MP3 (part 1) · 168.1 MB ·Download MP3 (part 2) · 165.8 MB
This conversation has not yet been cut into its own clip, so the player above contains the full tape segment shared with neighbouring conversations. It begins about 02:50:12 into the tape and ends around 03:01:37.
Transcript (AI-generated)
This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.
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· Timestamps are positions within the full tape recording.
2:50:48Take that over to the OBP, sir.
2:50:50Thank you.
2:51:46This way
2:52:13He changed his view.
2:52:15I'm sorry.
2:52:16Bob, I can make this very clear.
2:52:17This bill is a tough one.
2:52:17I just read a comment from my neighbor in the city of Chicago who said it cost $900 million.
2:52:42the budget buster and this, that, and the other thing, bad president, and so forth and so on.
2:52:45And then I'd get a gift of myself, and I'd inquire myself here if it was John Irving, and then this morning, and I'd ask John, I'd say, now, did you talk to John?
2:52:48Yes.
2:52:48And I'd ask John, I said, what did you do?
2:53:04And so I think you should know that I decided to sign it.
2:53:07Great.
2:53:08Now, I would like for you to, if you would, keep it in the conference tomorrow.
2:53:13We'd like to announce it tomorrow.
2:53:14I think it's only there that Arch knows about it.
2:53:17But you and Arch...
2:53:27We'll make a decision tomorrow.
2:53:29Fair enough.
2:53:30Yeah.
2:53:31If the decision is made, it's done, I'm gonna sign the bill.
2:53:35Very good, fine.
2:53:36Now, in the meantime, you help us out.
2:53:39We've gotta keep those costs down, and let's find ways of administering.
2:53:43We don't wanna hurt people that really need it, but it is a real problem.
2:53:49And if you'll help as much as you can, we'd appreciate it if you do that.
2:53:53Whatever we can have.
2:53:57The thing is that I figure the way that we use it, if I veto it, which I should from a standpoint of fiscal responsibility, the veto might be sustained, it might not.
2:54:00But then it'll be introduced again next year, and it'll be passed, and it'll be passed over veto.
2:54:02So under the circumstances, the thing to do is to do it the right way.
2:54:22And, frankly, it's, you know, everybody who sits in this chair now and then, even though I'm supposed to be a pretty tough guy, you've got to have some feeling of heart with those poor damn people.
2:54:26And so it's not real.
2:54:26But I feel it also for you calling now, and I appreciate it.
2:54:27Mr. President, we have a question.
2:54:43We had indicated to the press that I would be down to see you about this.
2:54:50And I'll have to say something.
2:54:53What can I say?
2:54:55You should say that it's a very, very hard question for him because he has serious budget limitations.
2:55:08And the president has on his desk a
2:55:11You know, a recommendation for me to, as well as an argument to, on the other side, that you presented the case and the president said, well, we'd like to have a federal investigation tomorrow.
2:55:17And that you would say that, well, that I...
2:55:29And they say, well, are you pleased with your visit?
2:55:32And you say yes.
2:55:33This is all I can ask.
2:55:34And you can say to the president, listen.
2:55:36If you hear the case, if you hear the case, you can pick me up.
2:55:39I'd leave a little bit of ideas, but maybe not that I'm going to leave them, but just maybe that I'm still going to ask for your information.
2:55:48And the decision is made.
2:55:50Can I say that I'm pleased with my visit?
2:55:52I think you should say that I was, that you were pleased with your visit and that the president listened and wanted to, uh,
2:56:00Heard all the arguments, heard all that you presented the case, effectively that he seemed to be very impressed by the case you presented.
2:56:09He's going to consider that along with, of course, the other matters that made the decision to be announced tomorrow.
2:56:20And they'll probably get something assigned, which is all right, too.
2:56:25John, I can work the situation out.
2:56:28I can call Arch tomorrow morning.
2:56:46But your decision about the announcement, I can coordinate.
2:56:50Well, I made the decision, and you worked out the time for the announcement.
2:56:55The first thing I'd say, what do you think, John?
2:57:03Yes, and tomorrow, tomorrow you're going to be on TV, right?
2:57:07And I believe that you might be all of a sudden, you might want to mention that classic, one of the other things, the president has before him, is a very strong representation from the government.
2:57:17Yeah, you might say that to us, but if you would, I would call again to come tomorrow to this.
2:57:26Now, may I just make this quick question?
2:57:32Could I call my office with you standing by while the President's going on in?
2:57:53So I don't have my office because we're going to have to say something.
2:57:57How about this meeting last year?
2:57:58Oh, it would be over here.
2:58:00So then I can call the mayor.
2:58:02Why don't you do that?
2:58:04You don't need to have that.
2:58:05You know, you just say, you call your office.
2:58:07I call the mayor's office.
2:58:11You just say that.
2:58:12All right.
2:58:13Fair enough.
2:58:13Thank you, Mr. President.
2:58:15I hope we can make some progress.
2:58:17We'll do that for help on the hill.
2:58:40Uh, why don't you and I wrap this thing up a little bit a little bit.
2:58:43Then I'll take care of the rest of the client.
2:58:45Okay, you go on and I'll take care of it.
2:58:46Thank you.
2:58:47Thanks for watching.
2:58:47Good night.
NARA Description
On May 19, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Robert C. Byrd, John D. Ehrlichman, Clark MacGregor, White House photographer, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:05 pm to 4:13 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 726-013 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 726-13
Date: May 19, 1972
Time: 4:05 pm - 4:13 pm
Location: Oval Office
The President met with Robert C. Byrd, John D. Ehrlichman, and Clark MacGregor; the White
House photographer was present at the beginning of the meeting.
Greetings
[Photograph session]
-Oliver F. (“Ollie”) Atkins
-Arrangements
-Byrd's last visit
-Vietnam
-US withdrawal
-Byrd's views
Black lung bill
-Memorandum to President from Caspar W. Weinberger and MacGregor
-Costs per annum
-“Budget-buster”
-Byrd's views
-MaGregor's report
-Ehrlichman
-Meeting with President
-Talk with Byrd
-President's signature
-Announcement
-Date
-Arch A. Moore, Jr.
-Meeting with Byrd
-Announcement
-President's decision
-Announcement
-Costs
-Byrd's help
-President's veto
-Reason
-Override in Congress
-Likelihood
-Re-introduction
-Likelihood of passage
-President's support
-Byrd's meeting with President
-Press statement
-President's considerations
-Presentation of case for bill
-Decision by President
-Date
-Tone of meeting
-Decision by President
-Speculation
-Call to Moore
-Date
-Time
-Ehrlichman and MacGregor
-Announcement of decision
-MacGregor's role
-Time
Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 4:05 pm.
Congressional leaders
-Location
Bull left at an unknown time before 4:13 pm.
Black-lung bill
-Byrd's meeting with President
-Press statement
-Moore's support for bill
-Byrd's conversation and meeting with President
-Call to office
-Time
-Congressional leaders meeting
President's Soviet trip
-Byrd's best wishes
-Expected results
-Vietnam
-Effect in Congress
Congressional leaders meeting
-Byrd's presence
Byrd and MacGregor left at 4:13 pm.
The President left at 4:13 pm.Also recorded on May 19, 1972
- 024-160 3:20 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone from 3:20 pm to 3:25 pm.
- 339-029 3:20 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 3:20 pm to 3:25 pm.
- 024-161 3:25 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:25 pm and 3:49 pm.
- 339-030 3:25 PM · 33 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, White House operator, and John B. Connally met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 3:25 pm to 4:03 pm.
- 024-162 3:49 PM · 10 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John B. Connally talked on the telephone from 3:49 pm to 3:59 pm.
- 101-010 4:13 PM · 1 hr 12 min — Richard M. Nixon and bipartisan Congressional leaders, including Clinton P. Anderson, Robert P. Griffin, Robert C. Byrd, Norris Cotton, J. William Fulbright, Warren G. ("Maggie") Magnuson, Michael J. ("Mike") Mansfield, John C. Stennis, John G. Tower, Milton R. Young, Page Belcher, Gerald R. Ford, Craig Hosmer, George H. Mahon, Clark MacGregor, William E. Timmons, Peter M. Flanigan, Richard K. Cook, Thomas C. Korologos, John A. Scali, William P. Rogers, Helmut ("Hal") Sonnenfeldt, the White House photographer, and members of the press, met in the Cabinet Room of the White House at an unknown time between 4:13 pm and 11:59 pm.
- 101-011 5:23 PM — Unknown person(s) met in the Cabinet Room of the White House on an unknown date, sometime between 5:23 pm on May 19, 1972 and 8:01 am on June 13, 1972.
- 101-012 5:23 PM — Unknown person(s) met in the Cabinet Room of the White House on an unknown date, sometime between 5:23 pm on May 19, 1972 and 8:01 am on June 13, 1972.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 726-013, May 19, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/726-013 (accessed October 9, 2026).