Conversation 728-005

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Unusual good.

Just a minute, I'm checking to see if he was coming in.

He was probably coming in before I go.

All right, good morning, sir.

Well, I think it looks very good in general, but the inlock thing is still, they haven't moved through there yet.

They're about a kilometer away, and they reinforced that 21st Division, but it's a disgracefully slow operation.

They got zapped a couple of times while you were away, which has made them more cautious moving up that road.

Pressure's off the perimeter.

The enemy isn't doing a whole lot there either.

No, sir.

And there's some signs that the two of the divisions, their elements have moved back up towards the Cambodian border.

So that battle looks fairly stable.

Khantoum looks very good.

They cleaned out the remnants of the enemy.

They've been cleaning up to the north of the perimeter.

They got about 180 killed yesterday in the morale and the

general demeanor of the enemy.

He's been kicking them in the...

I'm not so sure that they're just not so goosey about getting caught in there again.

And it's a very treacherous route in.

And it's traditionally been the ambush site.

And they got hit there twice.

Ten days ago.

Well, they have tunnels and fortifications that they have built over the years that come right up to the road.

These guys actually get under the road, and then when the vehicles start passing, they're going to come out with cycle charges and what have you.

What about the way in that area?

That looks very good.

The enemy's having trouble moving his supplies, and he's complaining about it.

The two operations that went up north towards Quantree and relieved all the pressure against the marine side of the perimeter, they've been doing air mobile operations to the west from the central perimeter.

And there's just no sign that the enemy's been able to get set for that attack, which they're trying to get launched.

And it's mostly as a result of a preemptive action being taken

by the Airborne and the First Division and the Marines.

So that situation looks good.

The question would be what the letter is coming on now.

Yes, sir.

And in 2 and 3 Corps, it's having an effect already.

We get intercepts if they can't move their artillery and their supplies are not getting in.

This is going to get worse and worse for them.

It does inhibit our air a little bit.

On balance, it favors us more than it does them.

There are signs of real problems up north as well, even to the point where there are many in public statement from Hanoi yesterday.

They referred to great economic stress as a result of the mining and bombing.

Of course, then they protest that they'll be able to fight on in any event.

Oh, sure.

They have to protest that.

But what about the bombing of Normanton?

Is it still affecting the degree that you feel that?

It's been very effective.

The photos of the accuracy of it has been damn good.

I mean, when they've set a target, they've destroyed it.

That's the bridges and the trestles and the passes.

They collapsed the pass up there in the buffer zone with China on Sunday, which is really going to give them fits to get that open.

There are no real signs yet that they have launched a program to fix this thing through trucks or special construction efforts or anything else.

Of course, they're working on what would knock out

And we keep heading it as soon as we get some work done, then we go in and hit it out, knock it out again.

But there's no real, and there's continual friction between the Chinese and the Soviets on the port issue.

As of yesterday, we got a report from the Soviets that the Chinese are still refusing to allow them to either overfly to set up an airlift or to unload their

their vessels in Chinese ports.

The Soviets complained that this is an effort to start friction between the United States and the Soviet Union on the part of the Chinese.

So this thing is going one way.

It's certainly a hell of a lot different than it was just from up the coast.

No question about it.

Now, we've got a detailed study being done by CIA to try to get some more hard figures on the PLL.

They claim that we've destroyed 10% to 17%.

That's all.

But they're still drawing down with no replacement.

So that figure should be.

Why don't we destroy that much?

Well, they have dispersed these stocks in suburban areas, in the civilian houses.

I saw one picture that Moore had, which shows the whole back yards of houses

Just jam-packed full of PLL drums.

So we just can't lock it up?

Well, we might have to, but I think until we get the study finished, it would, you know, have a problem here at home.

That's right.

We're doing damn well on them, and I think in a lot of ways... Well, after all, you've got to cut off, and they're drawing down.

And they're drawing down.

What the hell?

I suppose you don't knock it off, do you?

It doesn't go on for...

The CIA asked me that they had four months of supply in the beginning.

This is what we've asked them to hard study on.

They haven't been writing that book.

Never.

Goddamn, the CIA is just incredibly bad here.

I don't know what the hell they might do.

Not everything you've ever asked them about.

They're wrong on their political estimates.

Well, every lack of political estimates about what happened when we did this.

I mean, they're wrong on that.

They're always goosey about everything.

They never want to take any risks.

I guess they just want to be sure.

I think most of these guys now are very concerned that they've been wrong.

That doesn't make them any more friendly.

It makes them more dangerous.

I think they realize they've made fools of themselves

It puts into jeopardy all the judgments of the mid-60s.

Yeah.

That's true.

I don't think it's our advantage to rub that in because it gets an emotional challenge to them.

As a matter of fact, I always draw the picture that you and your policies have changed the strategic environment, which make the inhibitions of the 60s no longer tenable and have made this

this reaction possible.

And that's the best way they like that, because it gets them off the hook.

Sure.

I don't know.

We're going to change the goddamn CIA.

We've got to get better people who aren't God-seeking.

That's right.

Well, I mean... Just get that damn OSS crowd out of there, the Georgetown crowd.

They just aren't much good at all.

The Georgetown crowd.

That's what it is.

But it has the same flavor of the OSS crowd.

I mean, I've heard people who've been to that.

Jesus.

It's the same as the Stink Room.

The CIA didn't stay with us all night.

Walter said the morning that the Helms announced to the assembled staff over there that they were mining.

He said they all went but broke out into tears.

He said he never saw anything like it.

Of course, he's slowly but surely getting his finger on these guys.

And he's watching.

He's making a list for me.

Good.

He must do that.

Because, tell me this, when they're not going to ask you, are those CIA people related?

Are they like this?

Are they presidential appointees?

No, they have some tenure, though.

They have a...

But that's easy to handle.

You just move them to another spot that they don't like, and then they'll quit.

But get them out of a policy position.

I asked if John Waller could keep his eye on him.

He's confirmed he's a real bad apple, and I think he's very close to him, so we're going to have to slip him out.

Well, of course, we'll slip those bastards out of there and make a mess.

I don't have that, but didn't say to him, remember, we ought to just clean that place.

I agree.

I guess 100 out of them.

And I'd be ruthless about it.

I believe in any goddamn thing there is.

There are plenty of places so that you don't abrogate their funds.

Well, you can cut down the whole policy set.

First, I'd cut it in half.

That would be a good thing.

And that way, you can get rid of a few cancer, or you get rid of the wrong people.

You see, we don't need so many.

No, we need a lot of people.

You could cut it down to some.

That could be another.

Just rip a lot of them.

And the other, again, some of the others just transfer and add on to a micro.

We just got to do it.

walrus has been doing well they he's changed their daily estimates totally each one of these daily estimates used to come in they'd go out and look for horror stories and inflate them and it was always everything was lost and doomed every day would be that way and the difference between that and the military reporting which was probably tends to be a little out of question but there's something that's it has to be

He's clearing them all every day, and their reports are much better than they have been since he's been there.

So he's getting hold of it.

And I think here at home, most of our people have been solid.

We had no problems while you were away in terms of attitudes.

People are very, very encouraged by it.

that occurs because they don't see the horror of animals every day, this one being lost, this one being threatened, and so on.

They see some costly things that we're doing, which we please have to continue.

But the reporting has changed.

Has it really?

I think it has very much.

Even that son of a bitch, Louis, he came back and wrote a bleeding story that they're in trouble after he got back to New York.

He, of course, I think made a fool of himself over there, and this hurts him.

I mean, I want to see some plan involved with this.

I really want to, I really plan to decimate the CIA.

He doesn't tell anybody, but he's got to know what we have in mind.

I think two people, one get cut down, and I'll get rid of him.

I just like to have a place where I can have fun.

No job left.

Get out.

And then the other is to...

Uh, do you mean transfer them to, what, to E. coli or something?

Do that, or send them abroad to some station where they... Go to some of the labs?

Well, if you don't get over there, well, there's a little danger.

All right.

Good.

It's okay.

I'll find you.

Were you calling me, I've heard.