Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 739-004
Date: Wednesday, June 21, 1972 at 9:30 AM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob"); [Unknown person(s)]; Butterfield, Alexander P.; White House operator
Recording device: Oval Office
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/739-004

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:09] So what's this morning?
[0:10] Yeah, that's the Burns appointment he's been requesting for months as we've been putting on our weeks.
[0:25] We've been putting off and so first time recommendation that shows us that both of them saying he had to meet with it.
[0:33] Eventually he's going on a trip.
[0:39] No, he's asked to see you alone.
[0:40] No, we've said that he wants to be here.
[0:43] Don't you think that's what he's doing?
[0:47] Absolutely.
[0:48] I think Arthur is.
[0:48] And so does Jones.
[0:49] Brogan's pick from Shaw, Shelton, and Conner.
[0:51] Brogan's pick from St. Bill and Conner.
[0:57] Just told him to show us a razor, but that's fine.
[1:06] And what's the news today?
[1:08] Well, the consumer pricing tax is three points.
[1:11] Yeah, you got that.
[1:15] And food is down.
[1:17] Yeah, I know.
[1:18] We're going to go light on it, crowing on it, because it's going to be monumentally up next month.
[1:22] They were afraid it would be in this month, but in this it won't.
[1:28] There's no way it's in next month.
[1:30] Food apparently will get 3% next month.
[1:35] The concern about the press commission's meeting today, there's been a lot of flurry about that on the basis that they may take action on food prices and all.
[1:57] The concern is that they're not taking a lot of action out of concert with us.
[2:02] that we have a problem dealing with, and Ronstadt feels that he's got it basically under control, and that they won't do anything apart from us, or that would embarrass us, or without our knowledge.
[2:18] They're still working on that, this whole thing of what we do, and they've got a range of options, and they've got in through the final shot.
[2:34] Church, as we know definitely, is going to put the 20% Social Security on the debt ceiling bill on the floor of the Senate.
[2:49] And Long's position on that is that if he does, if they do, which he is going to do, he's going to force them to put a funding provision with it.
[3:00] He's not going to let them just put the Social Security bill
[3:06] That's a long strategy.
[3:09] Oh, I see.
[3:11] Only 15% of the budget.
[3:14] I wonder, what's going to move the tribe?
[3:20] All right, to create a problem.
[3:28] Man's fuel.
[3:30] So it looks like an even up, and now 40 or 41 on each side.
[3:38] And I don't know, Men's Guild apparently wants to put it, doesn't want to vote until next Friday, just before they adjourn.
[3:47] We apparently want to vote now.
[3:50] And if we can't, they've still got to step back to the social, too.
[4:01] They are doing a pretty good job.
[4:02] Our guys are moving hard.
[4:04] Rogers is working on Sun and so on.
[4:12] McGregor's been grinding them one by one.
[4:19] We've got one back with him.
[4:20] They think Matthias will go with us.
[4:22] Yeah, well, we've got to come in with that.
[4:31] Nobody believes in God's discontent.
[4:32] But I think he, they believe in God's discontent.
[4:36] I suppose it's far-fetched.
[4:44] There's no question it won't be this week, because we don't want it this weekend, they don't.
[4:48] We don't want it until we get Henry back.
[4:49] So Monday is when we would prefer, on Monday, and they still would prefer it on Friday, and that's the range now.
[4:56] I was going to go with Monday, but...
[5:03] on the um it's very interesting because i've been prepared to cold cockpit that comes up in the staff meeting and hasn't even come i don't want to hear it you know somebody did some crap about it or something but it didn't come up nobody wanted to discuss it the whole discussion was on you know all these congressional
[5:33] and stuff that we've got up before us.
[5:35] But we'll start with Mitchell afterwards.
[5:39] And Mitchell's, yeah, good.
[5:41] He sure does.
[5:43] He probably has something to do.
[5:46] Yes, does the same thing.
[5:47] Well, he does once in a while, and he raises some good questions.
[5:50] He does more asking than telling.
[5:53] And so I was very useful to have Mitchell there.
[5:58] There's something new.
[6:03] The question now about Mitchell's concern is the FBI.
[6:05] And there's the question of how far they're launching the process.
[6:10] And he's very concerned that that would be turned off.
[6:14] And then they're working on it again.
[6:18] John.
[6:23] I got to talk to you.
[6:28] Well, we were told yesterday in the discussion on this that we should not go directly to the FBI.
[6:33] Mitchell said today that we've got to, and he asked her over to talk to Craig.
[6:38] It's great that John's doing that.
[6:46] And the question that John and I raised, both of us have been trying to think of a step, one step away from it and look at a strategy.
[6:58] and see whether there's something that we can do other than just sitting here and watching it drop on us bit by bit as it goes along.
[7:12] And there is, it's pretty tough.
[7:15] John laid out one scenario which would involve this guy Lee and the committee confessing.
[7:28] taking, moving the thing up to that level.
[7:30] Saying, yeah, I did it.
[7:32] I did it.
[7:34] I hired these guys, sent them over there because I thought it would be a good move.
[7:38] It would build me up in the operation area.
[7:44] Little guy.
[7:46] Nobody basically mentioned him.
[7:48] No.
[7:48] Liddy is the general counsel for the re-election finance committee.
[7:52] And he is the guy who did this.
[7:55] And, uh,
[7:59] He, uh...
[8:05] I'm not really sure.
[8:07] I'm not sure how much.
[8:08] He obviously knew something.
[8:12] I'm not sure how much.
[8:16] He clearly didn't know any details.
[8:17] I think that was the record.
[8:20] It wasn't too effective.
[8:29] The Colson thing and so forth.
[8:31] I mean, he's getting a bad rap there.
[8:32] And of course, he's taking the rap.
[8:33] Basically, the White House is taking the rap.
[8:35] The White House is insulting the business and so forth.
[8:40] Hell yes, he worked for Kennedy.
[8:41] He worked for Johnson.
[8:42] Now he's working for the White House.
[8:44] That's the whole story.
[8:46] That we did.
[9:01] I think that is the fact.
[9:11] The problem is that there are all kinds of other
[9:34] And if they start a fishing thing on this, they're going to start picking up treads.
[9:38] And that's what appeals to me about trying to get one jump ahead of them.
[9:44] And hopefully cut the whole thing off and sink all of them.
[9:49] See, Erlin paints a rather attractive picture on that in that that gives you the opportunity to cut off the civil suit.
[9:57] The civil suit is potentially the most damaging thing to us.
[10:02] in terms of those depositions.
[10:03] And you have lay, confess, and then say they're unauthorized.
[10:10] And then on the civil suit, we plead whatever it is, and you get a, what is it, a summary judgment or something.
[10:20] I forget what the legal thing is, but...
[10:25] He saw that as a way to cut it off, too, and then let it go to trial on the question of the damages, and that would eliminate the need for the depositions.
[10:31] In other words, you'd have the... Any other... What do you think they have to do with the auto then?
[10:42] So, as far as White House involvement, you're sure?
[10:50] Well, there.
[10:52] We're getting done.
[10:53] That...
[10:55] shot to a degree because they're, they're, it's, you know, a hundred percent by Innuendo.
[11:00] They're, they're, the only time they got to the White House is that this guy's name was in their books, Howard Hunt.
[11:07] And that Hunt used to be a consultant at the White House.
[11:10] And he worked in CIA.
[11:13] He worked in the Bay of Pigs.
[11:16] I mean, he's done a lot of things.
[11:17] What I'm getting at is that, and I can be honest with you,
[11:24] We've got to be careful pushing that very hard.
[11:26] Because he was working on a lot of stuff.
[11:30] What do you mean?
[11:36] Well, he didn't have education.
[11:42] No.
[11:42] That's what we said.
[11:43] What did he work on?
[11:48] IDG, I think, too.
[11:53] You know, they tried that.
[11:54] He didn't.
[11:54] He didn't accomplish anything.
[11:58] But he's the guy that went out and took them.
[12:01] Talked to Dieter here.
[12:04] Deadly.
[12:07] That's what I see.
[12:08] That's what I see.
[12:11] That's what's all that.
[12:12] This is the new beard contract.
[12:21] Well, that is.
[12:21] They've used it for all this stuff apparently.
[12:29] That's, it's like all these other things, it's all a fringe, bits and pieces that you don't want to, that's why they have, and there's a very strong, I would challenge this question of hunt disappearing.
[12:40] They say there's no question it's better for hunt to disappear than for hunt to be available.
[12:46] There's no question that hunt would be caught in this.
[13:01] of the early scenario or something like it is that you establish a reason and you establish an admission of guilt rather than just a presumption and you cut out the thing before you establish the admission of guilt at the low level and get rid of it rather than letting it apply guilt up to the highest level which is of course what they're trying very hard to do by letting the press and the
[13:36] Although it's incredible, Dan Rather comes on the news and says, well, it's been a tough week for the presidential candidates.
[13:42] We have the Republicans tired of the complicity and bugging the Democrats, and we have McGovern in trouble with his radical views, and we have Hubert in trouble because he's lost his support.
[13:54] You know, he kind of ran, he stacked everybody up, which made him.
[14:06] I think our people have deluded themselves, and I have to agree, thinking this was a Washington story that would not be of much interest.
[14:17] The networks aren't going to let it be that.
[14:23] They didn't have much of any interest on it.
[14:27] There's no new news.
[14:32] investigating those humans.
[14:34] They found them on one of some of these shrines.
[14:36] Colson just told me something about, uh, some chart that Provozo was following.
[14:48] I haven't seen that.
[14:52] I'm sure.
[14:54] Oh, really?
[14:55] I'm sure they'll, I'm sure they'll find a time to go to the Cuban sometimes.
[15:16] Oh, Christ.
[15:16] I mean, but I want this, that if he, if they take this kind of a charge against
[15:25] If we could get the exact chart, you know, and so forth, he ought to sue.
[15:29] You know what I mean?
[15:31] But he knows not that well, he's not involved with it.
[15:33] If they, see what I'm getting at is, what they would do is go out and tie him under a tie, tie him under a tie.
[15:39] Well, I guess, obviously, he has nothing, whatever, has no knowledge at all of certain things he may be told.
[15:44] And, why don't you just call him and ask him if he knows these people?
[15:58] Unfortunately, they're intermeshing threats.
[16:17] One of these guys was
[16:24] over at the University of Miami trying to work out housing for the next move with the convention.
[16:31] And they're all supportive.
[16:33] Two of them have been principals in the Nixon stuff.
[16:39] That's why, in a way, you can't push a lot of it to the Miami thing, can you?
[16:48] I mean, to the Cuban thing, that's a problem.
[16:50] Yeah, you can't, that's, you lose that, it's a pretty, you lose that if you bring Liddy into it.
[16:58] That's one argument against him, because you could work to blame that, to Howard Hunt, all the other guys tied to Cuban.
[17:06] Except, well, no, you could implicitly tie him, I should say, except this security guy, what was his name?
[17:16] But he was a CIA agent for 19 years, he was hired for that.
[17:22] because of his technical equipment, the rest of the Cubans served.
[17:30] You see what I mean?
[17:31] Hunt was the TIE of the Cubans.
[17:34] He's the one that recruited the Cubans.
[17:42] You know, what a great deal of...
[17:46] Apparently, they said they were down there.
[17:48] And why they had some plans to revoke the floor of the governor's headquarters
[17:52] Well, I don't know.
[17:52] They found a plan.
[17:53] That's a pretty shitty bit of journalism, incidentally, which they haven't pointed out, and we shouldn't, but the committee can.
[18:04] They had a plan that showed the layout of the ballroom area at the Doral Hotel, which is going to be the McGovern's headquarters.
[18:10] What the press didn't point out is that the Doral Hotel is also going to be the Nixon headquarters.
[18:18] We have a lot of things that are out of hotel all over here because it happens to be where we're running out of room arrangements.
[18:22] And that's true.
[18:27] I don't know who can take it on, but who's over there in the committee that can do a little slam bang on that sort of thing?
[18:34] I mean, I think you ought to chip away at things on that sort of thing as well.
[18:38] Yeah, we should.
[18:41] And we would like to make another happen.
[18:43] You know what?
[18:45] That's just a little...
[18:47] Sure, I know, but it's eyes off, and they've been showing you all these things that have gone wrong.
[18:54] And they've taken a very bad shot, but we've got to be careful not to jump on a bad shot of Colson, which is going to bother him today.
[19:02] And the Post runs a thing on the principles in the Democratic bugging and running incident.
[19:09] And it's a little biography.
[19:10] It's a three-paragraph biography on each of the principles.
[19:12] The first one is Howard Hunt.
[19:13] They talk about him.
[19:14] The second one is Charles Colson.