Conversation 739-006

TapeTape 739StartWednesday, June 21, 1972 at 10:40 AMEndWednesday, June 21, 1972 at 12:30 PMTape start time01:33:42Tape end time03:23:55ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Shultz, George P.;  Burns, Arthur F.;  Weinberger, Caspar W. ("Cap");  Stein, Herbert;  Rooney, John J.;  [Unknown person(s)];  White House operator;  Walters, Vernon A.Recording deviceOval Office

On June 21, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, George P. Shultz, Arthur F. Burns, Caspar W. ("Cap") Weinberger, Herbert Stein, John J. Rooney, unknown person(s), White House operator, and Vernon A. Walters met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:40 am to 12:30 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 739-006 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 739-6

Date: June 21, 1972
Time: 10:40 am - 12:30 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with George P. Shultz, Arthur F. Burns, Caspar W. Weinberger, and Herbert
Stein.

[Members of the press were present at the beginning of the meeting]

     Greetings

     Arrangement for photograph

     Alexander M. Haig, Jr.'s office

     Haig
            -Instructions from the President
                  -John B. Connally's conversations
                        -Brazil, Argentina, Peru, Venezuela
                        -Emilio Garrastazu Medici

     National economy

     Edward R. G. Heath
         -House of Commons
               -Currency problems
                    -Burns’s view
               -Anthony P. L. Barber

The President talked with John J. Rooney between 10:44 and 10:45 am.

[Conversation No. 739-6A]

                                       (rev. Feb-02)

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[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 10/18/2022.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[739-006-w006]
[Duration: 1m 9s]

[See Conversation No. 25-100]

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[End of telephone conversation]

     Heath

     US economy
         -Status
         -George Meany's visit
               -Previous visit to Great Britain
                    -Heath
         -National economy
               -Economic indicators
                    -Stein’s report
                    -Gross National Product [GNP]
               -Rate of expansion
                    -Effect on unemployment in 1972
               -Consumer Price Index [CPI]
                    -Food
                    -Used cars
                    -Beef prices
                         -Cattle prices
               -Labor
               -Unemployment
                    -Administration policy
                         -Effect
                         -The President's experience in 1960
                         -Food prices
                         -Leasing bill
                                 -Construction of government buildings
                                       -Private companies
                                       -General Services Administration [GSA]
                                       -Wall Street Journal article

                         (rev. Feb-02)

-Military
      -Vietnam
           -Troop withdrawal
      -Procurement
      -Retirements
-Lay-off rate
-Teenagers, part-time workers
      -Manpower funding through September 1972
-Employment without inflation or war
-Real spendable weekly earnings
      -Rate of increase per year
           -1960-1970
           -Current
           -Effects of the President's economic policy
      -Hourly rate increases
      -The President's economic policy
           -Restraint on prices
           -Weinberger’s speeches
           -Structure of unemployment
           -Income levels
                  -Effect
           -Business leaders
                  -Peter M. Flanigan
-Effect of George S. McGovern's program
      -Business leaders
      -Taxes
-Inflation
      -Increasing price of wheat
-Wage guidelines
      -Effect on profits
      -Burns’s view
      -Consumer prices
      -Profit margins
      -Effect on economic recovery
           -Burns’s view
                  -C. Jackson Grayson, Jr.
-Freeze on meat prices
      -Timing
      -Hog market's cycle
           -Burns’s view
      -Import quotas
           -Shultz’s view
           -State Department
           -Wholesale prices in US

                               (rev. Feb-02)

                -Weinberger’s view
      -Quotas
            -Textiles and oil
                 -Iraq and Alaska
                 -State Department
      -Price freezes
            -Statistics
            -Chain stores
                 -Connally
                 -Winn-Dixie grocery store
                 -Food distribution
                        -McGovern’s plan
                               -Anti-trust action
-Instructions for Burns
      -John N. Mitchell
      -Charles W. Colson
      -Quotas
-Meat prices
      -Possible administration action
      -Retail chain stores
      -Military stockpile
      -Rises
            -Stein’s view
                 -CPI
            -Marina von N. Whitman
                 -Briefing
      -Chain store margins
-Instructions for Burns
      -Mitchell
      -Memorandum for the President
            -Price freeze
-Profit margins
      -Shultz’s view
            -Business leaders’ possible reaction
                 -Price freeze
      -The President’s view
      -Environment
-Legislative action
      -Higher education bill
      -Clean Water bill
      -Child care bill
      -Rural affairs bill
-Administration actions
      -Meany

                                        (rev. Feb-02)

                -Colson
                     -Louis P. Harris
                          -Foreign policy
                          -Domestic policy
                -Connally
                     -Business
                -Environment
                     -Environmental Protection Agency [EPA]
                -Tax reform
                -Anti-trust efforts
                -Quotas
                     -Meatpackers
                     -Cattle growers
                          -McGovern’s policies
                -Effects of price freeze on economic growth
                     -Political contributions
                     -Administration's actions in fighting Congressional
                      legislation
                -Removal of controls
                     -Staff views
                -The President's schedule
                     -H.R. Haldeman
                     -California
                     -Time and location of next Quadriad meeting
                          -Camp David
                                  -Laurel Cabin
                          -Colson, John D. Ehrlichman

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[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 10/19/2022.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[739-006-w002]
[Duration: 8m 16s]

     1972 campaign
         -Issues
               -Economy
               -Unemployment
               -Inflation
               -George S. McGovern's economic policies
                     -The President’s opinion

                                     (rev. Feb-02)

                       -Democratic National Convention
                       -Supporters of George S. McGovern
                       -Edmund S. Muskie
         -Issues
               -Economy
                    -The President’s opinion
                         -Use against George S. McGovern
                         -Taxation
         -Potential George S. McGovern Presidency
               -Businessmen's concerns
                    -Bankers
                    -Managers
                    -Life insurance industry
                    -New York
                    -Boston
                    -San Francisco
                    -Chicago
                    -Wall Street
                    -Advertisers
                    -William S. Paley
                    -Leonard H. Goldenson
                    -Frank Stanton
                    -Robert W. Sarnoff
                    -Publishers
               -Liberals
                    -Potential concerns
               -Homeowners’ concerns
                    -Potential impact of tax reform
                         -Interest reduction
                         -Property tax exemption
               -$1000 welfare proposal

    The President's schedule
         -Forthcoming meeting in July 1972

    George S. McGovern's economic policies
        -Tax reform

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    The President's schedule
         -Nelson A. Rockefeller
              -Photograph opportunity

                                           (rev. Feb-02)

                -John A. Volpe

An unknown woman entered at an unknown time after 10:45 am.

                -Rockefeller’s arrival

The unknown women left at 11:56 am.

Stein and Weinberger left at 11:56 am.

     Burns's schedule
         -Meetings during forthcoming foreign trip
                -Finance ministers
                -Central bankers
                -Haig
                -Medici, Juan Velasco Alvarado, Venezuela
                -Background notes from Connally's trip
                      -Henry A. Kissinger
                -Instructions from the President
                      -Velasco
                      -Public aid
                           -Medici
                           -The President's conversation with Luis Echeverria Alvarez
                      -Private capital
                           -Example of Chile
                           -Requirements
                           -Competition from other areas of the world
                                  -Southeast Asia
                                        -Indonesia
                      -Latin America
                           -The President’s view
                      -Need for stability
                           -Economic policy
                      -Brazil
                           -Medici
                           -Government
                      -Argentina
                      -Peru
                      -Venezuela
                           -Marcos Perez-Jimenez
                           -Iraq
                      -Need for stability
                           -Chile
                           -State Department

                                      (rev. Feb-02)

                     -Protectionism in US
                          -Congress
                          -The President
                     -Trade preferences
                     -Connally's trip
          -Latin Americans
                -The President’s view
          -Argentina
                -Juan Domingo Peron
                -Pre-World War II economic strength
                     -Italy
                     -Czechoslovakia
                     -Peron
                -Economic strength
                -Racial mix
                -Allejandro A. Lanusse
          -Vernon A. Walters
                -Meeting with Burns
                -Experience
                     -Dwight D. Eisenhower Administration
                          -Translation

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
[National Security (B) withdrawal reviewed under MDR guidelines case number LPRN-T-MDR-
2014-035. Segment exempt per Executive Order 13526, 3.3(b)(1) on 05/14/2019. Archivist:
MAS]
[National Security]
[739-006-w003]
[Duration: 26s]

     BRAZIL

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3

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     Arthur F. Burns’ schedule
          -Vernon A. Walters
                -Medici

                                   (rev. Feb-02)

          -The President’s view
     -Argentina
          -Meat exports
                -Capabilities
          -Meat quotas
                -Burns’s discussions with Argentinians
                -Compared to Uruguay
                -Kissinger
                -Administration policy

Jewish people
     -Support for Republicans
           -Burns’s view
     -McGovern
           -Israel
     -Israel
           -Administration policy
                 -The President’s actions
                 -Burns’s statements
     -Jewish emigration from Soviet Union
           -Importance to Jews
           -William P. Rogers
           -The President's discussions with Leonid I. Brezhnev
           -Burns’s statements
     -McGovern's defense program
           -Effect on Israel
           -Effect on foreign policy
           -John Foster Dulles
                 -Eisenhower
                     -Korea
           -Balance of military power
                 -Importance of arms negotiations
           -Compared with the President’s policy
           -Effect on Israel
                 -Yithak Rabin
                 -US liberals
     -Support for Republicans
           -Spiro T. Agnew
     -The President’s policy
           -Israel
                 -Phantom fighter jets
                 -Soviet Union intervention
                     -Surface-to-air missile [SAM] sites
                             -United Arab Republic [UAR]

                                          (rev. Feb-02)

                      -Importance of US President
                           -Nixon compared with McGovern
                                   -Brezhnev
                 -The President’s view
                      -Israel
                           -Soviet Union
                      -Comparison to mining of Haiphong harbor
                      -Burns’s statements
                           -Israel
                           -Soviet Union
                                   -Vietnam
                 -Catholic issue
                      -John F. Kennedy

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[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 10/24/2022.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[739-006-w004]
[Duration: 2m 7s]

      George S. McGovern
          -Arthur F. Burns’s opinion

Alexander P. Butterfield entered at 12:10 pm.

      George S. McGovern
          -Arthur F. Burns’s opinion
                -Sources of support
                -Potential impact of stock market [?]

Alexander P. Butterfield left at 12:12 pm.

      George S. McGovern
          -Arthur F. Burns’s opinion
                -Suggested response by the President
                -Public need for leadership
          -Economy
          -Arthur F. Burns’s opinion
                -Political atmosphere

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                                        (rev. Feb-02)

The President talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 12:26 and
12:28 pm.

[Conversation No. 739-6B]

[See Conversation No. 25-101]

[End of telephone conversation]

     US foreign policy
         -Effect of world situation
               -Great Britain
               -France
         -Winston S. Churchill
         -US role in World

The President talked with Walters between 12:28 and 12:29 pm.

[Conversation No. 739-6C]

[See Conversation No. 25-102]

[End of telephone conversation]

     Walters
         -Linguistic ability
              -Translation in Eisenhower Administration

     President's schedule

Burns and Shultz left at 12:30 pm.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Now, this will go over here.
Get the new quadriad.
Let's get in here.
Let's see, George, you're here.
Let's see, Arndt is here.
That's Arndt.
You're just sitting here.
Yeah.
Fair enough.
Well, you'll need to find it.
Yeah.
Tell him, hey, I want him to give the summary, you know, give him some of that, that sort of thing.
The summary of Conway's conversations, well, the summary of Conway's conversations in Brazil, Argentina, Peru, and Venezuela, and get it to him in confidence.
This is very confidential.
I prefer to go a little bit political as well, you know.
My friend, Joe, for his, in other words, basically, eyes only had not to be conveyed to the massacres.
You see, we have a little sensitive situation here.
These are conversations he had, which I asked him to talk to people like Ben and Jude, and how they unburdened their souls, and what the hell they want, and so forth and so on.
Well, there you go.
So we have our first meeting in our quadrant.
Oh, it's always bad.
It's a little bit of a minus side or a little bit of a plus side.
Let's say it could be a hell of a lot worse.
You see how he's having a terrible time in the house.
He's having a terrible time in the house.
He's having a terrible time in the house.
I'm going to tell you something.
He asked for it.
Did he?
Sure, he did.
What did he say?
His chancellor, the checker, stated, Tony Tucker, Tony Walker, stated that they're going to have to do this to get the bomb.
And they're not going to worry about it.
So anyway, the bomb has to be taken back.
or a denaturation is suspected in that sort of thing.
Hello?
Hello?
John, I just wanted you to know, as an old friend from way back 25 years, I was delighted to see that the earlier terms were wrong.
One of our boys called me about 12 o'clock in the evening.
I said, oh, God, no.
But
Listen, don't, don't worry about how much.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, but I, yeah.
Well, I told them they, yeah.
Yeah, who's that?
Oh, come on.
Oh, a pretty good call.
You were hurting with that shirt?
Oh, well, I'll tell you who it is.
That's not all I'm going to do.
I'm going to carry it forward for you.
Yeah, but in the meantime, good luck.
Yeah, good to talk to you.
Good luck.
Bye.
I have to get really supportive for a patient.
I'm just going to be kind of serious about it.
That's what I'm going to do.
I'm pretty good at it.
It won't be that much bigger than that.
But go ahead, go ahead.
No more than that.
More than ten.
Ten times five.
Five times a day.
One day.
One day.
As they lost well over a billion last week, today, I recognize that the market is a little more quiet, but the loss of reserves is coming up.
Why say that?
It's what he said.
Why say it?
Let this be your policy.
When the time comes, you do it, yeah?
Who wants this trouble?
I'm sorry to see that.
He's been very slow.
He's been very slow.
Well, go ahead.
I'm sorry that I don't think we're in a situation like this.
I wonder if the program you want, if the program you want, a narrow American, helped us.
Well, we're not the only ones.
George Meany, who just came back from a week or so of prison, he spent some time with them.
He told me that he spent an hour and a half or so in the shadows.
Sure.
He did.
He just wanted to ask me what happened.
Thank you.
And I can't tell them I haven't had anything to do with it.
And on the British paper, I think that George was pleased to have an opportunity and was struck by the interest in the place prices.
If they're all looking to offer the model, I hope they're right.
Anyway, go ahead.
As I said in my memo, I think everybody now agrees we have strong economic expansion underway, and this was confirmed, surprisingly, by yesterday's
preliminary estimates of the second quarter GNP, which showed an annual rate of increase of 8%, which was much more, I think, than anybody had expected.
And it may very well turn out not to be true in the end, which meant that... Usually it's low.
But even if it is, even if there's an average discount, if it were 7, it would still be a very big increase.
And I shouldn't say more.
And we've been saying that we thought the rate of expansion would accelerate during the year.
We've now had some signs that it's actually happening.
My thought, my memo has been said, despite the fact that it was not going on at a rate, it was not likely to be going on at a rate, it was going to make a very radical reduction in the unemployment rate during the remainder of this year.
You said it could be down there.
At best, maybe by 5, or it's just likely to be by 9.
I guess it's likely, but it's been a little out of the box.
It could still be up there.
And even if it's 8% rate...
by kind of standard rule of thumb of the relation of unemployment to the rate of expansion of the economy would mean it continues with something like a decline of one tenth of a percent of the unemployment rate and that brings us in October down to, if we got that, it would bring us down to five, four, I think.
Yeah, so it would be, which comes down to November 3rd.
And the whole, so what I'm saying,
One can't make a very big bet on the expectation of a very substantial reduction showing up in the unemployment rate during the remainder of this year, although I think everyone expects some reduction to occur here during the end of the year.
On the price side, we now have, for at least today, the May Consumer Price Index.
Which will be up, which is about 3 tenths of a percent.
It doesn't compare with the zero in March, 2 tenths of a percent.
In April, was it 2 tenths?
Yes.
And they have...
And this one, we still have food down, the food is down one tenth of a percent in the May figure.
The big change is that the non-food commodity grew up about five tenths.
And some of that is used cars, but there are always some special things.
But still, we can't attempt to look at that number.
And this is funny, especially when we have ahead of us now the food price increase, the meat price increase.
Apparently, we've already had it since then.