Conversation 748-007

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All right, this is Henry and Jen.

But these were my initial instructions.

Which is that, Henry, that it hangs off.

He says he can't read the object.

Let's see.

This is gorgeous.

Hammer's going to get put about now.

Well, he already has a turn, and that's what I'm going to do.

You said he was here, back from the strip, if you were interested.

And he did tie it into your, make sure that he had the vest here.

Yeah.

Good to see you.

It's hard to get these things implemented because their system is so different.

But we just wish you the best.

Thank you.

How do you feel it's going to go?

Well, I think it's the greatest thing.

I've done lots of things in my 50-odd years of business experience, but I think this is the greatest challenge of all.

Do you think you're going to make that deal?

Not only make the deal, but

I thought you looked all pretty good.

Oh, everything.

In fact, I stopped off in Morocco to see Secretary Peters on my way here from just now.

Oh, he was there.

That's right.

That's where I briefed him on everything that I had done, and he was particularly happy about one thing.

So we discussed it.

Great job, Dr. Hammer.

Well, that's wonderful.

Thank you.

I had one with Eisenhower, and one with Kennedy, and now I have one with you.

That's wonderful.

Thank you so much.

He was so happy.

I had Schreiber with me, who knows him very well.

He gets down at the college.

And I thought it would be a good thing on my... As long as he was going there, he knew what we had done.

And also, particularly, we talked to the Russians about building a trade center

I saw Steve Bechtel before I went over it.

He said, I don't want to keep men with me.

They've had experience in building trade centers.

And one of the things that Russians need more than anything else is a place where businessmen can meet, where they can get a job, etc.

He said, tell me one, is there any one Russian word you can think of that would describe best how to get along with the Russians?

I said, yes.

He said, what's that?

I said, Russians use a word called sympathy.

I said, there are very emotional people.

They like to give you the shirt off their back.

The recent President Nixon, particularly Mrs. Nixon, made such a hit.

Because when I got there, I heard the Russians say to me, it wasn't President Nixon.

They were pretty stupid teaching.

It's funny.

There's a lot of... That's exactly right.

Mr. Brennan was out in California, and Henry gave a little bit of a forum with a lot of your friends.

was that the wife of... Yeah.

John.

Wait a minute, who was the... June Hayter.

Oh, yeah.

She was with you, right?

Right.

And June Hayter

and also, and

And I think their image, what they'd heard about Americans and all that, we were up and running.

We were up and running.

That's right.

And that's the fact that we were sympathizing.

And I think that's what, of course, so you did.

You just paved the way.

And on top of that, of course, the fact that so few people of either knew Lennon and the fact that I had known Lennon and that

He gave me the first concession.

I had the first concession.

First foreign concession.

And here it is.

Coming back and doing the same thing that Lenin had recognized.

And every place I went, they kept saying, just think how far Lenin was ahead of everybody.

Now you realize the importance of coexistence and how important it is.

There was a, well, I had a letter from him, and I recently sent a copy of it to Henry Ford, because he mentions Henry Ford in this, and Michael Murphy asked me if I'd give him, now this was the kind of passport that Lenin gave me that I carried around with me when I was in Russia.

He mentioned Ford.

Henry Ford had to get it together, that one.

This is the release that the Russian government asked

All right.

You and Mrs. Nixon better tell you of all my talks to Lenin.

He's got recent letters from Lenin to me here.

I was only 20 years of age, look at the time.

This is the only businessman he ever called Comrade.

Comrade Armand Hammer from Lenin.

Thank you very much.

Here's a picture of what I looked like when I worked in the famine there.

I went there as a medical doctor.

I'm a doctor.

That's a great story.

And you feel free, and we'd also like, of course, you'd keep us posted on things that could be of use to us.

Well, I will.

I know you will.

I certainly will.

And I think that we want you to know we will work with you, we're going to cooperate.

You have Peterson, Kissinger, Pete Flanagan, you know, the whole gang.

I met Alex Lund up there, and I helped him.

Right.

Sonico has my total confidence.

And he just knows exactly what I'm thinking.

Can you just get him on the phone any time and tell Sonico to listen to that?

It'll follow right through.

Well, fine.

All right.

There's the guy.

He's smart as a whip.

Oh, yes.

It seems to me you get a kick out of it, because I wound up with the Russians

some of the Russian ground tools, which I got out when I came out.

I had been collecting art.

That's how I got interested in the art business.

That's how I was making this money and getting these Russian rubles.

And I was one of them.

Thank you.

You were right.

And so we started buying fabric and all these works of art.

You'll see some of the wonderful

jewels that I collected there and got, brought out, and with that we started the Hammer Galleries in New York.

They're there.

Well, it's just been sold.

My wife has a collection of her own.

But then we, and recently we just bought the Nola's Gallery, which is the finest of all the galleries in America.

Go down to Mrs. Chandler's.

It's an enormous one.

The Art Center in New York.

One of the most interesting.

Yes, I gave them a billion.

waiting to look me a nice letter.

She told me, she said, there's very few people out there.

But Billy named that one.

And she told me all about it.

And incidentally, one of the things I did on this trip, I saw a person, the minister, and she asked me if my collection, which is now at the Royal Academy,

want the hermitage to bring to america to show they're an exchange and i think that this would do as much as anything right now really to help and particularly to show the club that they're not dealing with a poor nation because they have a collection as the president now in holland on an exchange and it's got some of the great

And it was a nice thing to visit.

We went to work at our institute.

No, I went out with you, too.

We went out.

What did you get in Galilee?

No.

The restored house.

What's the other house?

I've lost it.

Restoration.

And now we're out of category after leaving the Los Angeles Museum.

This is what I'm giving to Los Angeles.

And I'm giving the drawings to the National Gallery here in Washington.

And now we're going to your friend, Jack Mulcahy, who, by the way, said, regardless, he could record it.

We just left him an album.

Mr. Hammond and I were there.

And we were guests.

Did you see that?

Oh, yeah.

But there's going to be stuff in this pyramid, and he's putting on a great opening.

And I was hoping that one of your family, if Julie Eisenhower doesn't come over as his guest or our guest at this opening, it's going to be, he's going to have everybody in Ireland there.

It's August 9th, October 1st, and they would be guests of ours, and everything would be taken care of.

And it slops over the bench, you know, and it's radical.

It's a horrible thing they're doing.

Oh, it's just terrible.

I don't know what can be done about that.

Well, you know, it's just ballroom bulls.

I think the British are trying their best.

You know, I think it's an honor to talk about it.

It's just so sad.

The Irish are such wonderful people.

They always fight.

They're fighters, right?

Tell your wife about it.

My wife says that's why you have

He's got Irish blood in him.

By the way, we've been invited to lunch by Kate Graham today.

She's a great friend of my wife's.

You won't find her supporting us?

I don't know.

I'm going to be working on her.

She's a very powerful woman.

I don't know about her.

She's a very powerful woman.

And I thought, you know, I know that this is meant to be about Grandma Moses.

Ah, yeah, yeah.

He represents Grandma Moses and the estate.

There is a big portfolio, which I'm going to send to Congress.

I don't think it was included.

It's too big.

It's an exchange of both colors.

Yeah, that'll follow.

I'm going to send it to Mrs. Benson.

Now, I'm going to throw one of these.

Stand for it.

How is the big marble statue that I have, the wise boy?

Yeah.

Is that right?

That's great.

That was a wonderful idea.

I see.

Be sure to get some chance to go down there.

Yeah.

And you can't bother.

But I didn't want to have to hop off the bridge that way.

By the way,

He couldn't even make a pencil.

He had a furry pencil back when he started with me.

Well, you know, when I saw Khrushchev, I went over in front of Kennedy.

I said, he had guided you that way.

He's an executioner.

We ought to improve relations.

Use that.

Break down the barriers of the Cold War.

There's nothing like trade.

Bring people together.

for an admission from our government.

The Secretary of Commerce, I just arranged it.

When I got to Moscow, I had spent a couple of hours with Mikoyan, who was my oldest friend.

Still, he's not reactive, but he's powerful.

My theory is that Mikoyan was responsible for Moscow.

I would like to have seen him.

He would be very someday.

Great man.

And so he, after my long talk with him, and we reminisced, I look how old we are, and so many years gone by, and we talked, and I was, I didn't know I was going to see Khrushchev, and I came back to the embassy and did my report.

I was supposed to go on to India and see Nero.

That was part of my mission.

The call came from Khrushchev.

Heard of Dr. Hammond's talk with

After we got through our talk, just before I came to sleep, I said, Mr. Kruger, what one thing can you think of that would do most right now to improve the places to be active?

He thought about it, and he said, take the ban on crab meat.

Crab meat?

Well, I was prepared for that.

They had briefed me, and I said, well, Mr. Kruger, that's very easy.

You just let us send a delegation.

to where you can show that you don't become a slave later.

And the president removed it.

He said, oh, no.

He said, you want us to spy.

I said, well, let's see.

President said, ask.

Oh, not nothing.

He said, Secretary Dillon knows I'm killing you.

But that little thing like that, I mean, you'd think, you know, you'd think there would be a lot more you'd have to ask for than to take and grab.

And as I was leaving, he said that the Britain, the Britain was then, his secretary was the head of the, he said, American secretary, he said, he walked over to his desk and he picked up a pencil, a beautiful pencil with a little ruby on the top and a picture of the Crimson Grave.

to let me get there.

He said, see that he sees this factory immediately.

When I got back to the embassy, the ambassador had already got the car.

They had a message, there was a car waiting.

They took Mrs. Hammer and me to the factory.

It was night, it was snow, they called it.

And it said about, oh, about 10 acres, right on the Monaco River.

And there was white birch trees installed.

All the buildings that I had built there, the whole factory was still there intact.

And they took us through the factory and showed us each division, how they'd improved it.

That was my little office, just that I had left it.

And by the time I got to the, we finished, they had sent for, there were three shifts now, they sent for all the staff.

They had a table laden with caviar, with champagne, and they had about a dozen of the old workers that we spent a while in there.

Some of the kids, the kids that we marked, they came up with 40 or 40.

imagine, tears in their eyes, and Khrushchev then made a speech, in his vest, where he told the whole story about this American, or it was Russian, and that kind of thing, that you have a kissing in transit with somebody, and then he tells in there, I'm just reading a few words, what Khrushchev says, he said, a year ago, I received an American by the name of Hammer,

he was in the early years of the Soviet government, he received a concession from Lenin for the manufacture of lead pencils.

He says that when Lenin received him and

Hammer said, Mr. Lennon, you've announced your aim to teach the Russian people to read and write, and you don't have a pen and paper.

That's a pretty historic fact.

I think I know something about these Russians and how to handle them, but since I left in 1930, I've sold out.

I got all my props out.

I got all my capital out.

I got a big art collection out, which is out of the county.

And I've never gone back to do business, and this is the first time.

And because of your trip, I feel that now is the time.

I had never felt that time was right.

We call it a new chapter in the life that we all come to.

So we had to start communicating with both.

That's what we tried to do.

Nobody in the future, nobody in the wildest dreams could have imagined that you could have done double.

Let me ask you one favor while you're here.

I've been in touch with John Compton.

He's a great friend of mine.

As you know, I'm trying quite actively to listen to Democrats in our support.

The key man for that would be a man who is very close to you, Mark Watson.

I know that to have a man who is an executive vice president to lead for a political sabbatical is always an enormous...

uh, lost to a businessman.

However, I think that the states in this election are, are in our partisanship.

They involve our system of government.

It involves the economic system, our capital system.

It involves the kind of foreign policy that we've been trying to go on.

I, I think that, I think that a great number of Democrats, uh, like, uh, Johnson, uh, if we could have, uh,

Marvin Watson.

And if you could, if you could make it possible for him to join John Connolly in this work period of the campaign, it would be a great privilege.

Okay, but I just did that.

And I called Marvin.

I haven't seen Marvin since I got back.

I can tell you this, that Marvin is one of the greatest men I've ever met as an individual.

He sure is also a wonderful executive.

He has taken a great burden on this company.

We are now the 10th largest oil company in the world.

We have the 34th largest company.

We have done $2.6 billion in business from $100,000 to...

to a $2.6 billion company in 15 years, it's taken an awful lot of hard work.

You know, nothing is done without hard work.

Been with me now for about three years, and ever since Marvin came, I have been free to do the kind of things I want to do.

Too much of our assets are in Libya.

This is it.

We are number one in Libya, but we have $400 million left in Libya.

And believe me, I have to go on with this night, even though my relations, by the way, are very good at it.

Yeah, this Gaddafi, not Gaddafi, but Jalou, this new man who I hope someday to get, I think he is now taking over hands and I think things will change.

Anyway, to get back to Marvin, I called Marvin last night when John Connolly called me and told me that you were going to be good enough to receive me.

And I said, Marvin, I know I'm going to be asked tomorrow.

And I want to know how you feel about it.

He said, well, he said, I'll tell you.

He said, before I came to work for you, I consulted with Linda Johnson.

He said, he's my, the man I used to, responsible for my career.

He put me in the cabinet and made me the first assistant.

I'd never do anything, he said, without discussing it with Linda Johnson.

He said, I'm going...

If the president does ask you that, he said, my first thought would be that I'd have to go and talk to Linda Johnson.

Now I know Linda Johnson.

He has a great regard for you and your policies and his are together.

My first suggestion would be that before Marvin talks to Linda, that you place a call for Linda Johnson.

He loved Marvin Watson like a son.

He once told me, he had us out at the ranch,

He said, take care of Martin.

He said, he's one of the greatest.

So this would be the deciding factor for Martin's concern.

The other thing is this.

I would, assuming that Linton tells Martin this is the thing you should do for your country because this transcends politics.

This is something that would be the greatest disaster that could ever befall this country if

My wife and I are even looking at a place where we would move to.

I mean, listen, I don't think we're alone.

And I can tell you this, and I .

I don't blame him.

So that's the first thing.

The second thing is I'd like to share Mark with you during the next few months.

In other words, I'll let Mark take all the time he wants.

He did a great job for you.

But I would like him at the same time

and keep in touch with us.

particularly this Russian thing, because there's no problem, and I would suggest that you put in a call to John Cronkite, to Lyndon Johnson, and just tell the president that you've come, you know, accompanied with me, and I'm for it, but I, if you feel that he'd want to go, I would like to put the call in a way that's just kind of close to my hand.

Well, I would go see him.

He'll go when I ask him.

I'll tell you, wait a little while.

If you let me know as soon as you hear the call, I'm going back tomorrow.

But if you have Mr. Haldeman just tell me what the president's reaction is, then I'll know how to play it with Mark.

I mean, as far as he personally is concerned, he wouldn't be willing to do it in person.

Not successfully.

Yes, yes.

Because I haven't.

Other people don't.

I don't know.

I don't know why they haven't talked to Brother Johnson.

I'd have to.

I wouldn't be able to say that he would be very interested in him.

You know, if he personally is willing.

If you're willing.

Well, then I'm saying that he's willing.

I'm willing.

I see.

Put it that way.

But I tell you privately that

I have great influence on Mark because the deal he has with me, Mark, will be a millionaire in two years.

It's very important.

If he does this, it's very important that you're not hurting your company.

No, no, I don't.

He said he will be, in my opinion, a much greater value to you all.

He's my strongest, he's on my executive committee.

He's been on the board as long as I have.

He's a family friend.

My wife's and I are going back to the years he was in Chicago.

So, but I think we can work this thing out.

Well, I think...

I can call President Johnson and say that I'm talking about asking for a way to get Mark Watson.

You know that Margaret was a consultant, and that Margaret Watson obviously would not do anything without a consultant.

And Dr. Hammer said that Margaret, as far as he was concerned, he would approve it, but that Margaret wouldn't actually go out and do anything without a consultant.

And I just wanted to say that you did a consultant, and I appreciate it, but we're asking some questions.

That's great.

Now, I have to bring Tim back up for you.

Tim is the number two man in our organization.

after martin martin's president of the international as well as executive vice president and tim is uh exactly right now tim was in russia by the way and he'd be interesting if you ever get a chance to get yeah tim is that you're disposed to 100 because he's here in washington and i can be free now martin we have moved

We still, I think we still have a lot in house.

One point that is particularly important to me, and John kind of said, one that was very important point is this, that of course President Johnson might say, well, if you guys want to have a market or anything, the market is the market and so forth.

So I think if you can do a good market, if I, again,

I don't feel there's anything to do with it.

I will not be urging him, but I'll, you know, Martin, I just renewed his contract, and I liked it, and we're going to be giving

I don't have any stocks.

I don't have any stock or anything.

Do you know what it added to the value of our shares?

Right.

Well, our stock was huge.

We had a bag after many great years.

As a tanker, we bought a lot of tankers, charred a lot, thinking that we were going to lose Libya.

And we had to think around the government because we hadn't lost Libya yet.

And then we stuck with these tankers.

had a write-off of $85 million in Angola.

So the stock was selling at $10, and it was over $10.

Yesterday, it closed at $18.25.

It was up almost 100%.

And on 70 million shares, $8.

And here, how much was it?

$560 million.

Now, we've got $1,000,000.

Right?

There you go.

And they had to stop trading.

They only traded 54 minutes.

Yes, the New York Times says it's not true.

Yes, when you look at the national page of the New York Times, they didn't tell the whole story.

And the president of the Stock Exchange told me that never in the history of the New York Stock Exchange has there ever been a $1,400,000

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

I said, this guy came from Moscow, they wanted to get an interview and write a story.

And he said, so I told him exactly that.

I said, he said, what did he say?

I said, he's from Stockholm.

I said, yes, what's his name?

He said, it was an 100-share lot.

And I said, it came from all over the United States.

I'm going to say, it was a lot of stuff.

Yes.

They still have it at that bar at Wilson Boots.

Yes.

And the story that my brother's chairman, former chairman of the committee, and his brother came to me and said, you know, he has that thing.

And he remarked that my brother-in-law said, how can you see who painted that picture?

And he said, look behind you, you see one rear view of the same girl.

And he said, the members of the club said, Harry, what did she look like in front?

So he went and painted it.

Very good.

That's the way I have done my duty.

I'm in the 100,000 Club with living stands.

Oh, very good.

Oh, thank you all.

Everybody.

If you have a photograph of the Nixon family, I'd love to have one of those.

Sure.

We're going to do the things we want to do for the family.

I mean, we'll offset that to you so we can put it up.

Never mind my California address, but I think we can.

Also, we will send you a copy of this.

Please, yes.

This is the same thing.

Oh, for a little hand purpose.

Oh, isn't that one?

Get up.

That's for only $100.

One other thing.

I asked you myself, Dr. Rodney, on this cultural exchange.

Right.

To support our, you know, the ministry over there.

Yeah, no, we support these exchanges.

I know the culture.

I know I'm getting on my plate.

Keep in touch with us.

Now that some of them, he'll needle them on that.

See, that's a, whenever a thing like that, if you've got something small, get some of them to come up and say, well, do this, and you say to the president,

Okay.

Thank you.

All right.

Thank you.

This is Hammer.

Thank you.

All right.

Great.

I've got another one.

Thank you.

But what you overlook is that this guy probably owns three-quarters of those shares in stock.

So I'm telling you, he has a very large chunk of that kind of personal wealth in him.

Whereas the guys in Standard Oil, the guys in the $1,000 salary, don't know the people in the business council.

They don't hold that much together, and they wouldn't be worth $100 million properly.

Because Marvin Watson, he doesn't have a background in Wyoming.

He's registered in Wyoming.

You look at how these guys use people, though.

He's talking about Marvin Watson, one of how he's the greatest guy in the world.

He made my company, and I'm taking that ground.

But Watson, he's talking about, here's the key guy now.

He says, why?

He'll be a millionaire in a few years.

But here's the stock's gone up a half a billion dollars in three days, and Watson doesn't have enough of it to be a millionaire yet, apparently.

These guys hang on.

This kind of guy hangs on to the devil.

He's like Martin Simon.

Nobody gets rich except him.

Mahoney.

Mahoney's a paid manager.

Mahoney's done better than Harvard wants him.

But as contrasted to a guy like Ross Perot, who is a nut, but he

he says people

who are simply managers working for companies have no inherent right to become millionaires simply because they work for a company.

He says they risk nothing.

They should be paid for their services and paid very well and not be taxed a lot.

But he said we'll be talking, parents, of risk.

Those who should be rewarded for risk are people who put money in.

He has a very good point, sir.

Very good point.

I mean, you know, on our part, I mean, part of the reason is people are competing for good people.

Of course, I don't see all the competition.

That is a point that has to be considered.

I have never thought about that.

The problem is you've got a market situation of a supply and demand.

You've got to buy hell yes.

If you want a good man, you've got to pay him more than somebody else will pay him.

I don't think Marvin Watson's all that good a man.

He's perfect for us.

Great.

Sure.

to stick out the good ones and the bad ones.

No.

Always.

Vigilant stands must always be invited to the breakfast.

You won't be out there.

What are you here for?

Oh, it was.

and no one else.

There's no one else in the White House who has any knowledge of what's going on there at all.

There isn't anyone else, and that means much better.

In the first place, it's no need for anybody to know.

There's nothing they can do about it.

Well, actually, there's nothing any of us can do either,

to some extent.

The real, the really key question at the moment is sometimes we've got to answer this in regard to Hooter not waiting for the axe to fall and whether he, you know what I mean, the risk of his waiting it out is that he might have to be drawn on.

Let me ask Mitchell about it, because that's one thing that I was to talk about.

I guess around that and a half, I think that Hooter, my own view is that his good and our good are both

if he's going to get it, in other words, by his statement, whatever the hell it is.

You don't know.

They haven't called Sloan yet.

Now, what they've done with Sloan, which apparently is a very good break, is they've granted him informal immunity.

And Sloan is clean.

and he's clean on his own involvement but he knows things that would have nothing to do with the Watergate caper that there apparently are some substantial irregularities under the Campaign Spending Act which Sloan's aware of and some cash movements and things like that so they've learned some temporary immunity and he's going to cover what he knows about the Watergate stuff

what they had planned to do was he was going to take the fifth but this avoids his having to take the fifth which is much better because he isn't he has no guilt where under the water game he has some some under the other they would just open a new line of prosecution which is no right to that's the one thing I wanted to raise with Dean this morning is whether there is no way to give Magruder immunity and maybe get him out from under two I don't see why they couldn't

give Magruder immunity in order to get information on the Watergate caper people and Liddy, maybe, or something like that.

He goes in and says, well, apparently, that's the thing our people have been worried about, is if I give immunity to the wrong people and get too much of a story out.

But Magruder, given immunity, could then go ahead and inculcate himself

And he seals the case on the others.

I think the way that I would trust people to stand up, the way that

all possible it's got to be it should be put in a way that a group of people who were hard-nosed and extreme on on the human economist thing came to them and expressed their concern about like i really wanted to do this sort of thing and these people said all right don't ask i don't know whether that'll work or whether it was the other way around i'm not sure

That's it with the public image, the public story.

I don't know if I can get, you know, even if it could be a murder of any, I suppose, and you have the problem that he goes and he testifies.

Doesn't he get out and he did, you know, he didn't get killed.

Like, I don't know how the law works.

I don't know if that says anything.

I want to jack him.

I don't know.

I think it just occurred to me last night as I was counting the thing through, and I did this new thing with Solomon.

Maybe they could do the same thing with... Who else besides Solomon?

Did he work the recruiter?

Yeah.

The question is how many people they've involved in that.

They're not going anywhere.

The recruiter's the last one they've been called, apparently.

Yeah.

Well, it's the same thing with stops on place.

I mean, Jesus Christ, oh, God, that committed.

I'm not going to call him next year.

At least that's what yesterday was.

Right?

Okay.

It's very important to me.

I need to get out of the office.

If I'm in the office, they'll say, well, the president wasn't even gracious about shaving his head.

Did you see my question?

I mean, I'm very open to questions.

Why don't they go first?

No, I mean, but go to the White House.

Where?

He should have come into the White House.

What do you think?

That's a good idea.

I'll be over and available.

Okay.

Yes, sir.

And I really thought that the...

I sure did.

Both of them.

and Chris, and good night, guys.

It'll be messy.

I think John's probably right if we're going to take any time.

We can't avoid getting too many tidings.

Somehow it's starting to get a good idea.