Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 750-001
Date: Friday, July 21, 1972 at 2:04 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob"); Agnew, Spiro T. (Vice President); Mitchell, John N.; Bull, Stephen B.
Recording device: Oval Office
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/750-001

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:16] stop anybody that joins us now is going to be treated equally after this convention, I mean after this election.
[0:23] That's true.
[0:24] Equally on appointments and anything else.
[0:26] Why the hell do we want to be a minority party?
[0:28] That's right.
[0:28] I was just going to say that.
[0:29] 24% have to do it now.
[0:31] If we treat them right, we're going to get a lot of them.
[0:33] But also by treating them right, you can't just take their word now and then say after this, look, if somebody wants to be postman or not postman,
[0:44] revenue collector, whatever the hell we appoint people to, ambassador, consul, or so forth, that only Republicans need to apply.
[0:52] Uh-huh.
[0:53] Anybody that supports us can apply and will be treated according to his ability.
[0:57] Judges, U.S. attorneys, and so forth.
[1:00] I wouldn't say they're too loud to Republicans, but that's what we believe.
[1:03] But you tell the Republicans in the South, Florida, that we are opening our doors, not just for your vote,
[1:23] I have a question about the campaign.
[1:24] Will we be campaigning with the Charter?
[1:25] Yeah, the Charter.
[1:26] The same way we did.
[1:27] Yeah.
[1:27] No, no, no.
[1:27] We'll be using military plans.
[1:28] We'll be using military plans.
[1:29] We'll be using military plans.
[1:30] We'll be using military plans.
[1:31] We'll be using military plans.
[1:32] We'll be using military plans.
[1:33] We'll be using military plans.
[1:33] We'll be using military plans.
[1:35] We'll be using military plans.
[1:35] We'll be using military plans.
[1:36] We'll be using military plans.
[1:37] We'll be using military plans.
[1:38] We'll be using military plans.
[1:38] We'll be using military plans.
[1:39] We'll be using military plans.
[1:40] We'll be using military plans.
[1:41] We'll be using military plans.
[1:42] We'll be using military plans.
[1:43] We'll be using military plans.
[1:43] We'll be using military plans.
[1:44] We'll be using military plans.
[1:45] We'll be using military plans.
[1:46] We'll be using military plans.
[1:48] We'll be using military plans.
[1:49] We'll be using military plans.
[1:49] We'll be using military plans.
[1:50] We'll be using
[1:52] flight to Alaska is political, and that's billed.
[1:55] All right, fine.
[1:56] We're very careful.
[1:57] It's not a fact that these are 135 instead of the 137 that are fundraising people, because it's about $500 less an hour.
[2:04] Well, anyway, now don't you use the government plane?
[2:10] I'm just wondering about the trouble we have with the government plane, or had before, is that the 707 can't get into
[2:19] places we need to go.
[2:20] We want a 727.
[2:21] We have a 727, which we can get in any places.
[2:24] Yes, sir.
[2:24] Why not charter one?
[2:25] It might be a good idea to charter one for you.
[2:27] I think the charter is a good idea.
[2:29] Let me say that the charter has one other advantage.
[2:32] It's a good political idea.
[2:33] It's a good political idea, but also a good political idea.
[2:37] The damage it got to good-looking stewards is to handle the press and other people who are on that plane, rather than, you know, those stewards.
[2:46] It's a much better operation.
[2:48] I can't use the damn thing because of communications.
[2:51] But you can use the charter.
[2:55] I think you should use the charter.
[2:57] Well, I think the 727 can go anyplace unless you get started.
[2:59] Yeah, that's right.
[3:01] It's an excellent idea, and airlines will love it.
[3:04] And you can bring it for the campaign exactly the way you want it.
[3:07] And have it done now.
[3:08] We'll have to get at it to get it fixed with the front thing.
[3:12] I've actually got one.
[3:14] Oh, I know they've got one.
[3:15] You know what they thought?
[3:15] They had it.
[3:16] Humphrey's got one.
[3:18] One of the things that I could particularly emphasize is the, what you're talking here is the, these people like to hear positive stories.
[3:35] I used to make an awful lot of points on Eisenhower when I say that I was in the room when the president decided to go into Lebanon, or I was in the room when the president decided to do a bottom degree.
[3:47] And we had some real tough ones.
[3:49] You can talk about the May 8th, the blockade, and how the bureaucracy wasn't particularly standing up.
[3:55] So, you know, without commenting upon Kavanaugh and others' history.
[4:00] But this sort of thing is disgraced of.
[4:03] And then the...
[4:07] And you won't get played, but sometimes this sort of thing will begin to seep through the public consciousness.
[4:13] But if I can't emphasize too strongly, I hope that in every speech you make, every speech, no matter what the issue is, stand at least five minutes on the foreign policy side.
[4:24] Because that is their great weakness.
[4:27] It's our great advantage, their great weakness, and don't assume that people are going to
[4:32] I think it's an awfully good thing, actually, to conclude speeches with.
[4:35] I used to do, but I did not.
[4:36] I mean, where we had a lot of domestic things to talk about, too, in those days.
[4:40] But to God, I'm just talking about foreign policy around here.
[4:44] Just talk about domestic policy.
[4:45] We beat the living with Jesus on it.
[4:48] Domestic policy gets to be a laundry list.
[4:50] Right.
[4:51] On the other hand, it's like, on the other hand, I, I, I, I think you can say that in this whole area, we've worked on that.
[5:01] We've experienced that.
[5:02] And here we have revenue sharing.
[5:04] This Congress is sitting on its ass and not doing anything.
[5:18] I think you could also, and you say it's because people look to the future.
[5:22] And our job is, we've begun one of the most dramatic changes in foreign policy that the world has ever seen.
[5:29] A chance for the world to be at peace.
[5:31] We'll have no more Vietnam's.
[5:33] You know what I mean?
[5:34] Having no compromise with the philosophy of communism, but in the event of recognizing the pragmatic situation and trying to build a world in which people with different philosophies don't have to fight each other and all that stuff.
[5:47] I think on the domestic front, we also need, we also want to remember that here we are, we have the economy now is moving forward, those are fine numbers as well, and we're trying to reform this government to basically get the government off the back of the people, to avoid tax increase, to get the people more of a say with that.
[6:10] You got that speech down the path, but the,
[6:15] Also, I would never miss a chance to hit the, and I feel so strongly about it, the pot business, the marijuana, the way out, the lifestyle stuff.
[6:31] I don't know how you can do it, but, well, the hand is good.
[6:35] At least that can be good.
[6:36] God damn it, he can't get off of that one.
[6:38] No way that should ever come up.
[6:40] Eagleton made a shocking statement to the effect, well, a government's position is the same as the President.
[6:45] Give the man the seat after the war is over and so forth.
[6:50] And they said, I've never said that.
[6:52] I said, we wouldn't even consider it until after the war is over.
[6:55] But mine is the Lincoln position.
[6:57] You know what Lincoln did?
[7:00] A woman.
[7:02] A man, a young man, a kid who had fled to Canada, interestingly enough, was at the White House gate in 1965 and asked to see the President.
[7:13] The President saw him.
[7:14] He used to have an open door all the time.
[7:17] And the President said, I want to, I'd like to get back.
[7:23] I don't want to leave Canada.
[7:25] The President said, fine.
[7:27] He said, I'll be against you.
[7:29] Provided.
[7:32] He may serve in prison for the amount of time he's been out of the country.
[7:39] Now that's interesting.
[7:40] In other words, you cannot let these assholes that have good draft, dogs to draft, come back after the war and say, oh, I'm always forgiven because this was an immoral war, huh?
[7:51] They've got to serve, and that doesn't mean serving in the goddamn Peace Corps.
[7:55] They're going to, they'll be in the police corps.
[7:59] And that's the way it's going to be.
[8:00] Lincoln's other kind of amnesty he gave was right at the end of the war.
[8:05] He gave amnesty.
[8:07] This is a part of the amnesty he gave to any Southern.
[8:10] That was a war to the Southern.
[8:12] They wanted to join him.
[8:12] Of course, he didn't amnesty me.
[8:14] He just used the two-way approach.
[8:15] He gives it to himself, gives it to me.
[8:17] He's a good cop.
[8:19] But he gave one amnesty at the end of the war, but with the condition that those who had deserted or dodged the draft come and serve with their units for a little bit of time.
[8:31] That wasn't easy to do.
[8:33] Dan Martin said, get their ass shot.
[8:35] But my point is, we are opposed to amnesty, any amnesty now.
[8:40] And we're opposed to that.
[8:41] There will be amnesty.
[8:42] And when they have to, they have to pay the price.
[8:44] They have to pay a penalty for deserting their country.
[8:47] I think that's a good one.
[8:49] I think this attitude,
[8:52] that Goebbels had, some of them, a lot of political commentators followed it.
[8:56] Somehow, amnesty is a different ballgame after the war is over.
[9:00] It doesn't bring those fellows back to get shot at.
[9:03] Oh, yes.
[9:03] Mr. and Mrs. Lewis would rather make it easy for everybody to go.
[9:10] Yeah.
[9:10] Well, as a matter of fact, I used to press him and show you how lousy they are.
[9:15] It was a classical folk.
[9:18] I said, well, I'll stay with my position.
[9:21] pretty directly so that you'll understand.
[9:23] She's in one of these office press conferences maybe six months ago.
[9:26] I said, I said, millions of young Americans were drafted and they had to make a choice.
[9:34] I said, most of them chose to serve their country and some died who made that choice for their choice.
[9:45] A very few chose to desert their country.
[9:48] Now they have lived with their choice.
[9:51] My God, that is the way it's going to be.
[9:54] They come back, they're going to go to the can.
[9:56] I mean, that's how old I am.
[9:59] A suggestion that just occurred to me, talking about Amnesty.
[10:02] I was watching the government the night you came down and talked to the Drag Tonight group and the Durrell lobby, and he was asking about Amnesty.
[10:11] And he said, I'm for amnesty, and he did not qualify.
[10:16] We only have that film because when we state his amnesty position, which he has qualified in his position, to some extent, we ought to dramatize it by saying, we heard him, the country heard him stand in the lobby of the Doral Hotel, facing the demands of
[10:37] of the demonstrators who say he was harassed.
[10:41] Because that's all he said at that point.
[10:44] That puts us right in... You know what, I was going to say, how do we handle this situation at one point?
[10:50] Let's talk a little about that.
[10:52] How do we handle the situation when he changes position?
[10:56] Obviously, like that, like Chancellor going off and on four different things.
[11:02] Speaking up, you know, I said I'd be about 10 minutes late this evening.
[11:06] Yeah.
[11:07] About four different things.
[11:08] He put up, he said, that's not true.
[11:11] That's not true.
[11:12] That's not true.
[11:13] Reading out of the CIO.
[11:14] I didn't believe it when he said that.
[11:18] Right.
[11:18] You told me about it.
[11:19] He did it.
[11:20] He did it twice.
[11:21] Right.
[11:21] He did it once in the sort of early thing, then he did it in Arapa.
[11:26] Yeah.
[11:27] Yeah.
[11:27] But anyway, what I'm going to say is this.
[11:30] I think we ought to say, I am now quoted from what he just said.
[11:34] Get the Playboy article.
[11:36] Get everything out there.
[11:37] And take that quote where he said, this is the reason.
[11:41] And then the press says, but that isn't his position.
[11:44] I said, well, it's not your responsibility.
[11:47] That's his.
[11:47] If he wants to change the position, he should tell the American people.
[11:51] But this is what he said.
[11:53] But this is what he says.
[11:54] This is what he said.
[11:55] And don't you think that's what he meant?
[11:58] I think, absolutely.
[11:59] Yes, sir.
[11:59] And I think where he said it in a contextual way
[12:06] environment yeah well we can say not only repeating the group but but remind the public of that one question uh mr president what time in the morning so that i can brief my press
[12:32] Well, it occurred to me that we ought to go to 10 here.
[12:36] Would you think so, Bob?
[12:39] I'd give you enough time.
[12:41] Well, maybe we should go to 11 so that you don't, otherwise they'll gang up in front of your place.
[12:47] What would you prefer?
[12:47] We could do it at 8 o'clock.
[12:49] We'll make all of them.
[12:50] We could do it at 11 and have Ron notify your office as soon as he's done it so your office could then say the vice president will be available to the press at the airport at 1 o'clock or 1245 or whatever.
[13:00] I'd say 1230.
[13:01] I'd say 1230.
[13:02] You've got to be there at half hour because you've got to be on the phone.
[13:07] Well, you better do it an hour and a half ago.
[13:10] What should Ron say?
[13:11] How does he...
[13:36] Well, I'll work on that.
[13:38] It should be very simple, because I want him to make the news around the president tomorrow.
[13:44] That's going to be the best way.
[13:45] Roger just announced that the president's going to recommend to the convention.
[13:52] Yeah.
[13:53] But if the president has so informed, if the president has informed the vice president, has informed Clark Greger, has informed Chairman Dole,
[14:05] that he's going to recommend the informed, that might have said that he's informed the informed Vice President, the Chairman Dole, the Chairman Greger, that he's going to recommend the Vice President as the candidate for Vice President again to the convention.
[14:22] You're about to put Scott in there because he's a floor leader.
[14:26] Well, you better mention that.
[14:28] And it's informed Scott in order to
[14:34] I've covered a majority of our leaders.
[14:38] Fair enough.
[14:45] So, we can get this done.
[14:48] So, it's now with regard to the recommendation of the convention.
[14:53] Yeah, I know.
[14:54] Yeah, he intentionally recommended the convention and nomination.
[14:58] Yeah, recommended the convention.
[15:00] Recommended the convention and nomination for a second term.
[15:06] And then he says, as the President said in January, he believes that we should not break a policy team.
[15:15] Maybe that's enough.
[15:17] He wants to characterize it, something like that.
[15:21] rather than getting into all the business of why.
[15:23] And see, if Ron answers questions on this, they're going to say, what about the opposition and Mr. Chavis and all that?
[15:28] I don't think he's answering the questions.
[15:30] I think this should just be a post-answer.
[15:33] Would you agree about it?
[15:34] Sure do.
[15:34] The moment he gets out there with a question, say, Ron on the air, he doesn't have to because it won't be a regular briefing anyway.
[15:41] I thought without one was no.
[15:43] That's what's done anyway.
[15:45] And you go out on that.
[15:59] the situation is that there isn't a prayer for the criminal strife legislation to get through the Congress that meets the House in particular in the Senate.
[16:11] He says he might have those, I doubt it.
[16:23] this session, unless we have a perfect strategy.
[16:26] And there ain't gonna be any the rest of this year.
[16:29] And what we were, what our strategy is, is to try to work out a piece of legislation that we can get through, and the shovels and hodges and so forth, and talking to the labor leaders with regard to trying to find a different formula.
[16:44] We're not flushing the legislation.
[16:51] That one provision in regard to the part of arbitration, we've had it up there for two years, and the Congress is not active.
[17:03] But I think the impression that this was the cost of our getting to endorse and the teachers to endorse is not true.
[17:14] In fact, they had worked this out long before against Hobson and Schultz had recommended to me that we can't get this through us.
[17:26] And I said, well, my turn of mind's on the clock.
[17:28] Now, we have a hell of a stride.
[17:33] They'll do it.
[17:34] Yeah.
[17:34] I just didn't want you to get caught up in the basin today.
[17:37] But in order that we could say it, I think we could say Senator Packwood has done a fine job in this field.
[17:43] We are, our problem is not just getting it through the Senate, but the House, and with the House members all coming over, and with the great support that labor has in the House, there ain't no way that it has any labor legislation.
[17:57] You see, here's the point.
[17:59] You can't get it out on the House Labor Committee.
[18:01] It's been in the House Labor Committee for two years, and the House Labor Committee is totally dominated by the left-hands, by the labor guys, and you just say we can't get it out on the House Labor Committee.
[18:12] And so we were simply talking to hear this, we want action, not the issue.
[18:17] And it was over-faceted in a highly controversial and difficult legislation that you cannot fight on three or four major fronts at a time.
[18:29] And we are just working on, like crazy, on revenue sharing and welfare reform.
[18:34] Two of the priorities have been there longest.
[18:36] And we came to a decision.
[18:39] Our effort, we've got it.
[18:41] We have put up legislation.
[18:44] We are still for legislation.
[18:48] The problem is that this particular provision is one that we can't even get out of the House in a minute.
[18:54] So we're consulting with everybody concerned to see if we can find something that will be effective, that they will support rather than oppose.
[19:03] And that's really what he is.
[19:04] But I just saw that Pac said he's got a fine job, and there's just a misunderstanding with regard to the thing.
[19:11] He may be right about the time.
[19:13] One of the things I did, I said to my father, why don't you do something that I can't?
[19:18] I'd like for you, up there in the house, up there in the conference, I'd start hanging him on a regular basis.
[19:29] members of the Senate and the members of the House, two members of the House.
[19:32] I think we should do that.
[19:33] We should all serve.
[19:35] And I've just talked to politicals.
[19:36] I've talked about their problems, their districts, their states, and so forth, and so on, and so on.
[19:42] Because as the political year gets on, they'll want to talk to somebody.
[19:46] I can't do it.
[19:48] I've got to stay here and so forth.
[19:50] And you can be up there to hear their beefs and so forth.
[19:54] I wouldn't limit it to just to
[19:59] We can't do a hell of a lot with the so-called Wednesday group, but I'd see some of them.
[20:07] I mean, after all, they're gonna pipe down on it, it's done.
[20:10] But I think it would be extremely valuable, extremely valuable for you to have a pilot, whatever you do, and just chat, if you'd like to talk a little politics, say what are the issues, what should we be on this on, what should we be talking about?
[20:27] And so that was among the issues, of course, that we want to ream hard, and even needless to say, it's busting.
[20:34] Goddamn, every time you have busting.
[20:36] I don't know if that's right.
[20:48] Well, I guess those acronyms are waiting for me to set those up.
[21:00] We're going to have condolences.
[21:05] We're going to have a hell of a time, as you know.
[21:09] This Congress, that's their game.
[21:11] They're going to try to embarrass the hell out of us.
[21:16] But certainly, we're going to be smart.
[21:19] They're so damn political.
[21:21] The stuff they say, I'm going to have to veto some very popular legislation.
[21:24] It was ever with us, Hank.
[21:29] Huh?
[21:29] I said it was ever with us.
[21:32] Good luck.
[21:32] Have a good trip.
[21:34] Don't take off.
[21:35] I like this all the time.
[21:38] The way we go again.
[21:40] When I have no credibility, it's an issue on itself.
[21:43] Big people will stick it out.
[21:45] That's right, Bill.
[21:47] I'll see you later.