Nixon, Haldeman & Kissinger on Vietnam War and 1972 Election

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No, I don't mind that.

Well, this is probably...

Yeah, I think they both are, but there's more demand that it gives you something to do with the future farmers, getting the future farmers into a demand.

We're looking for you.

I just want to say one thing about that call, the reason I had him make it.

I had a call, talked to Mansfield, and I called him after I heard all of your stuff.

And I said, Mike, I'd like to come down to the Senate for more research.

But he said, you know, Mr. President, I would strongly recommend that you might go to the House if you want to.

You know, when Dick Russell, who was also President of the Republican Party, he went there and he said, I would recommend that he said, because I can be very helpful if you move from a political standpoint.

He said, go and be a people's leader.

See what I mean?

We all, we are also a total loser in many acts.

But it occurred to me that it was a good way to get a stop and to get to Louisiana.

Well, there's absolutely no problem in doing it.

The reason I said we had to go check this was I didn't know whether you were looking for an excuse or not.

But I was thinking that, uh, that, uh, that I, uh, that I could do it, and it's a good way to accomplish a good way to accomplish the goal of going south.

Right, right.

So, to, uh, what I mean, like, the problem is you can't get any, any affirmation.

You won't, can't and won't get any affirmation.

I don't care.

So what I would like to do is to arrange it this way.

I would like you to have somebody call up and tell our people here, get one of them to call Mike's office and tell him that

Not that I am going, and I will be going.

I want to have go on my plane with Helen.

Let's try to avoid talking, because if I wasn't married, all this sex would not be going.

Just I would go by myself.

I couldn't stay.

And then I want a lifeline.

I don't want to stab this guy.

You know what I mean?

I don't accept it.

I was going to blow the damn thing.

You know what I mean?

I'll just use it for the purpose of, you know, yakking with these guys, which I'm sorry to do.

That's another thing.

You okay?

Both sides?

First, we've got to pick up from the house the Louisiana types.

In other words, Hale Boggs, not the whole delegation, but Hale Boggs, Eddie Hebert.

You realize this is what I have in mind here.

You've got some powerful people.

Russell Long, of course.

Russell Long, incidentally, should be called an Eddie Hebert and informed.

And then Boggs.

and being invited to go on our plane.

And I was going right down and coming right back.

Mike Mansu, of course, should go.

Whatever the Senate leadership is going to go, they should go on my plane.

The Senate leadership.

The Louisiana top leaders.

Oh, Otto Pastner is from Louisiana.

I can't believe you.

If you read a murder story, they're most important people.

It's all our people, sir.

Yeah.

Well, I think we need to go to Louisiana.

So let's just, it's a two hour ride, two hour ride back.

The airport's terrible.

I think it's well, before we say we're announcing, for you to make the points with our current legislature.

Call Eddie Ader, you got the word, Eddie Ader, out of pass.

For sure.

And Boggs.

Boggs and Russell Long.

Russell should be called.

And Mike Hensley should be called.

So that he knows that I'm going.

He won't want to go.

What I mean is he doesn't have to go.

He's his son-in-law.

But the House speaker's going to be, we'd have to take, yes, well, but don't call him.

Just tell him, tell him I have it.

It's the senator, because he's present in the pro-tenant, but he's next in line on succession.

He barely got to him.

The speaker could be called and said he would like to go.

And I'm going with it.

We can stop him.

Yeah.

And without pressing him to go.

He's going to take the whole Louisiana delegation now.

Not on my part.

They all know.

They all get on their plane, don't they?

Okay.

You see, so the defense plane can take a whole group now.

Louisiana, I don't need to take those guys to lower levels on my plane.

Okay.

So you take the senior members to the delegation.

Okay.

Go away.

I want him on there.

Yeah, he should be on my plane.

He should be called.

Joe Wagner, he's Louisiana.

There's another very good friend of ours.

You know, I'm going on Monday to Europe.

That's a good cover.

The meeting is Tuesday.

I'm going Monday, Thursday.

So why don't you get that out of the way?

I'm going to spend the day with him to try to ease the wanderers and some of the people that...

You know, I told you, I had it yesterday morning.

I would have, they would be a nice touch.

They always see you when you go there, popping by sometimes.

I'm going, I thought I'd go over to the British Embassy, but I couldn't.

How late are you going to be here?

I, uh, I can see him any time before 11.30, but I'm all 10 minutes, you know.

And at 11.30, I have 11.15 to come back, or, or I can see him, I have a signing ceremony at 12.15, you know.

Uh, I leave at 2.30.

Why don't I bring him by about 2.15?

Uh, about 2.45.

Yeah, it's 2.15, because I leave at 2.30.

That's great.

I'll bring him by at 2.15.

That gives me a good excuse to come back, because I'm going out of the British Embassy.

Why don't you bring him by at 2 o'clock?

2 o'clock.

And then, after that, I'm going to take him home.

And then we can continue whatever talk we've got left here.

But I think it's a nice discussion.

I think it might be a very nice discussion.

Greatly appreciate it.

I'll bring Kromer in, too, because...

Yes, bring him by, and I'll spend 15 minutes.

I think that he's very...

He's had that special attention.

He still deserves it.

So, yesterday afternoon, Harriman called me, and I was having a bite to eat with Joe Kraft.

Oh, yeah.

He just came back from Hanoi, and I thought I'd never wanted to be able to... Look, I understand why you have to see all these other people.

You understand.

Well...

I have no objection.

What I...

So...

Harriman called up and said Alice Longworth and Showhouse were there with Iron Man strapping by.

At his house?

At his house, Showhouse, strapped by after dinner.

And you should have heard Harriman.

He said the only thing I would like to say is that they have the wrong man at the head of the ticket.

Eagleton is better than McGovern.

He did?

He said I'd rather vote for Eagleton than for McGovern in the number one spot.

And Kraft was sitting there with his mouth open.

You know, Adam has enormous influence on these guys.

I know.

He's been around a long time.

He's seen a lot of people in his life.

And he is eye-opening.

Once, really, Bob Altman said that maybe he was pissed off at him because they paid no attention to him.

Yeah, that's partly true, too.

But still, they've now made a deal.

But he bares him on Europe, bares him on Greece.

Absolutely.

How would you like to weigh at least in that?

But I stuck Greece into it on that.

That was beautiful.

About time somebody did that.

The only thing, if I may suggest, Mr. President, if you do another press conference, we mustn't say anything like there are good chances for negotiation, because we make ourselves passage to these facets in Paris.

Well, I don't know.

The words themselves were all right, but the way they played it on television at night makes us think.

What I'm trying to do is this.

I don't think we're going to have negotiations.

I don't know.

I want to put it into position and posture.

That's where I set it up, Albert, and the rest.

And if they don't, then the chances have been destroyed in Congress.

That's our purpose at this point.

But I think that if I had found the police, I would say I won't tell you anything.

This is the first time we have a real chance.

It's very sensitive.

But I'm conducting these talks.

You see, I'm afraid that someday, if they think we need it domestically, that they'll just kick us in the teeth.

I think they will anyway.

But my view is...

I think that's how the devil is going, and it can't be the North Vietnamese.

It's much better to attack the Congress for explosive negotiations.

But I think we're better off...

blowing it up, my instinct is that if it fails, if it looks like failing, which will now endure three more sessions, we should break off about the middle of September and say we'll resume on November 9th, or something like that.

That's the end of the session.

We have a break off.

Of a great record.

I agree.

That's why I think, though, it's good to have some mystery now and not give the other guys.

I'm really worried about Hanoi.

We have them on their knees.

psychologically, and if they get the idea that we need it more than they do, they're going to go back to their brutal life.

But we're not over the line yet.

It's just, if you give a press conference next week on television, I'd play it very cool.

Well, I think, yeah, that's true.

I think, too, that if they read this whole transcript, you'll see that right after I say it, that the enemy has...

I said, no, I don't want to raise false hopes.

I said, I'm not suggesting that there are chances, but I don't know what I mean.

But anyway, be sure that we don't, that we, however, create the impression that this is the enemy that's in trouble, but that Congress is making the enemy trouble.

That's what I said.

I talked to three of these goddamn Matthias Stevens and

Well, Stevens and Cook ought to be with us.

Our guys think I switched Stevens and Cook.

Well, they ought to be all right.

Matthias will never be.

He ought to be on what you're doing, that son of a bitch.

But that cooks, that cooks in my opinion.

He and Percy are done.

Absolutely.

I mean...

He didn't come down for lunch.

Stevens, at least, is up for election.

Sure.

I can understand.

And Cook is in Iraq.

But you think you did... Cook, I'm too...

How do you put it on the basis of data?

He said, give me an argument I can use.

I said, first of all, let me tell you what I really think.

I said, I'm not saying these negotiations are going to succeed.

I'm saying that I see nothing good that you can do with this amendment.

You can only confuse the enemy.

If you don't know... Let's say, you know, if I'm using your document, I see exactly the same thing.

I said it could at best confuse...

And the worst, it could be strong.

Exactly.

That's their line.

Excellent.

And what do you say to that?

Secondly, I'm not asking you to ask the President.

You don't have to say you agree with everything we're doing.

What you should say is, this is not the time to have an amendment reduced.

Your substantive position, if you were conducting the negotiations, maybe you'd do it differently.

That is the point Cook said.

After what he said, he thinks he's... You know what I said to Al when he was a trainer?

He was tremendously impressed.

He said what he said to him, which I think is a term you might use.

I said, I'm not going to...

I'm just going to tell you that these negotiations...

I said, Carl, I never misled you on the negotiations.

He said, that's great.

I love you, too.

And we had a six and a half talk.

We still are far apart on the critical issue, and that is what we determine will return.

But we oppose a conscious government.

I mean, that's what we're talking about at the political center.

That's what I'm saying.

because of the military situation in the South, because of the effect of our money, I said, it would seem to me that this is the time they ought to negotiate.

I said, under these circumstances, I said, you don't want to be starting a change of order.

Maybe it isn't very great, but I said, all I'm asking, give us some time.

I said, three months from now, then you can tear hell out of us, or in the election, you can tear hell out of us, but give us some time.

We need some time.

These are pretty decent guys, dogs in Algiers.

on this issue.

But I think if you could say, give us some time.

I said, look, you guys got it both ways.

I said, if you want me to give us some time.

And we failed, you could say, well, we were responsible.

But I said, if you don't give us time.

I said, the record will have to come out, Carl.

That it was the irresponsibility of the Congress that may have destroyed the chance for us to succeed.

But now that we have the funeral, we have put the vote off from Monday.

Already before the funeral, I got the minister to put the vote off from Monday to Wednesday.

On Tuesday, the news will come that I'm in Paris again.

On Wednesday, we can go to work on them again.

Well, Henry, you have done that.

You've achieved that here.

It's unbelievable.

I mean, the fact that we're still alive in three and a half years is unbelievable.

You know how great that is.

But get back to this, to Harriman.

He is really pissed off.

What is, what the, what are the issues?

In Europe, where is it the most, what worries you the most?

Well, Europe, Greece...

He says he had everything, every time he opens his mouth, he does something wrong.

He says he's stupid, he's unfit to be president.

Oh.

And what's he say?

And Alice Longworth, of course, is edging him on, but now he and Joe Alsop are great pals.

And, uh, yeah, and he said, uh, he said... And the interesting thing is, he said he was not ready to withdraw, is he?

Yeah.

He wants us to replace you, but he doesn't want that.

I know, but he knows that a withdrawal is difficult in their position.

A withdrawal for prisoners.

First of all, the other thing is they want to send me to a prison.

But a withdrawal for prisoners doesn't replace you.

A withdrawal for prisoners is totally a bug out.

A bug out.

And the paramedic knows that, doesn't he?

And also, you know, the most important point that you raised that I haven't heard you raise before, except in another, you raised the point but not made the term, I hope you get it here next week.

The fact that you said that we have a withdrawal, and we withdraw, and then they raise the price, raise it in, and he says it'll be blackmailed, and you said it's not.

Are you saying...

He said it will be the biggest...

A blackmail bill, anyone who's ever to pay, I better show them the pretty numbers.

All right.

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

But I'll bring Birkhead around, too.

Good.

And, uh... You might.

You might say it.

Sure.

Cheers.

I had breakfast this morning.

I had nine o'clock this morning.

You said the president had around four o'clock.

Yes, I'd like to thank you because he speaks very highly of you and wants you to come over to him.

That's good.

Nixon, Haldeman & Kissinger on Vietnam War and 1972 Election

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on July 28, 1972

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