Conversation 756-012

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You've got quite a lot on your list here.

I'm just looking it over.

Some of all the stuff, why do you think we put you in the next job?

I think we're making a good job.

I heard the cooperation.

You know, this is different.

We're trying to solve some of the problems here that reset the whole nation.

But I thought, sir, it was satisfactory to do in the interest of your time.

I'm going to check this with your associate.

I'm going to touch very briefly on the history, very briefly on the status, sir, because you have all of the background that you need on that.

And hopefully some recommendations that you and your staff might consider.

Sure.

As I said, it's very interesting to get on this later than basically a thumbnail sketch of a minute or two.

Some questions, sir, in the history of this bison tenting mission, as you know, has been going since 1966.

It really started when we came in.

The first thing really that was done, the first meeting was in Hallowood.

They still talk about having been six years.

There was some question at that time, in my mind, whether a commission itself was the vehicle to implement, plan, and put forth a bison tent.

That said, for instance, perhaps if we had a landing man on the moon, NASA was a better place to do it than a commission.

In fact, in Niagara we do have a commission with all of the diversity of public members, congressional members, cabinet members.

We at that time were aware that we did not have the full representation of the ethnic groups, the youth, and so forth.

We submitted legislation, which you in turn signed, and we did increase the commission.

Finally, they bring in the youth.

We've got blacks on it now.

We've got Indians.

I think it's much more representative.

This was something that your office did without trying or pushing from anyone else.

It just took time to get it through Congress.

So I think that the commission concept, within the concept of the commission, is probably much better than it was before.

Some of the major problems that we've had in front of him, which you have the background on, was the Philadelphia Exposition, which staggered on, I think you can argue that, reasonably well under the circumstances.

A lot of cooperation was made with so-and-so on our side.

Exactly, sir.

And all the progress is here and on that, but it certainly did not prove that to the administration other than that of a local banker there that took a lot of media shots.

We've had that.

Last night, we had the problem that Franklin meant, and that's caused us a lot of problems in Congress, the question of putting out these coins and medals.

We felt that the United States meant that it would be appropriate for the organization to do that, and so does Mary Brooks, and so does many other people.

But there were those in Congress who said that it shouldn't be given to Franklin.

They held it up for a year.

As a result of that, instead of having the coins in metal about a year ago, they would give you some idea of the costs involved for the taxpayers.

Following your message on July 4th, Mr. President, we started to sell those things.

We sold over $4 million worth in the first two weeks.

We have generated over $2 million, everybody wants.

And they're coming from the minster has much more value to them.

But we practically, from business terms, made $2 million available for the commission.

How open above cost, mailing, and everything else.

What I'm talking about, Mr. President.

When are they going to be ready?

We sold.

They're going right now.

But we lost a year, is what I'm saying, from some of these.

And in so doing, it gendered a lot of bad will from those who said, why the hell aren't we doing it?

To the others that said, you're not going to do it permanently.

Pat said if you go to Franklin, then he's going to knock it off.

One of our Republicans from Philadelphia, Congressman Williams, said that's what we should do.

But these are just background, certainly not to tie you up, as to where some of the pressures are coming from in and out.

Then the last item on history, very quickly, is the idea of the Bicentennial Parks.

It was our feeling on that, with the support of most commissioners, to take some of your legacy of parks program and tie it into the Bicentennial by saying we want it.

There's no message that, Mr. President, all 50 states involved, a place to go, a forum to pass, and so forth, unfortunately, Nixon Park sounds like a tremendous idea.

We've been bogged down on that.

We got it approved by the commission in concept,

Uh, doing a feasibility study, we finally got the money about two weeks ago.

We got it for about six months long.

I understand to my other point that we were in a bind as the president came up with an idea, implemented it, it becomes a problem, and then we become fair game for those who say we're doing nothing.

But the whole idea of parks, and I read your remarks, I believe the day before yesterday, in papers, so far as the use of land, is precisely what we're trying to do.

And one could argue with the merits of it or not, but at least it's a constructive idea.

So constructive, Mr. President.

He said, well, 50 state governors unanimously accepted it.

It's the only thing that 50 governors of every degree done.

And in one day alone, we had editorial approval from the New York Times, the Christian Science Model, and the Washington Post in one day.

so that there was something.

But the fact of the matter is, it was a constructed big idea whether it was good or bad.

Well, I did great, basically, Mr. President.

Now, the status of it concerns me a little bit.

Incidentally, this I discussed with my vice-chair this whole thing, and also with Eric Johnson, and to a degree with Jim Coffey.

They know precisely what I'm presenting to you, Mr. Disney.

We're concerned that there's going to be equipment.

No question.

We're certainly willing to take the heat and move in that direction, which you can see, sir, whether it be Philadelphia, whether it be the men, whether it be the parks, so forth.

And yet we're getting crucified because we're not.

I say, which we are always, about everything, everything good is politics.

So that's the vast region on it.

They say, you know, we're supposed to get revenue from sharing.

I say, we're making politics awesome.

That's just good for the country.

Yeah.

Same thing here.

That's what I didn't treat.

I said, no, if this be political, we'll make the most of it.

Isn't that true?

But we're not.

We're trying to do our very best to do it.

But you see, the pastors always say that anything good, that's politics.

What do they want us to do?

Just quit doing anything?

Because it might help us.

That's the argument I know.

I agree with the president.

But I know you're talking about a bent over backwards.

Well, we've really tried to do that.

I don't get all the great expectations.

I think it would be presumptuous of me to point out the tremendous opportunity, Mr. President, on this.

between now and 76 and hopefully after.

I wouldn't even comment on some of the dichotomy in the commission itself so far as those who believe we should just celebrate on the Boston Post Road with a lot of people walking up and down in boots and tricolor hats.

versus the other people saying, you've got nothing to celebrate with.

I mean, it's somewhere in between.

And I think you've struck that balance in the heritage and the open house and horizon.

But there are differences in that from a commission point of view, which relates to the person.

But then, even here with Mr. President, I could move on rhetorically.

So I'd like to make some recommendations, something to be of consideration.

I've discussed them with Glenn.

I've discussed them with Ken.

And I think that...

they represent the things that might in a group of the bicentennial commission executives first in some ways mr president i think we have to increase the priority rate with the vice intention because if we don't we're just going to be sitting out there being picked at being accused of politics but not really using politics the leverage that we can get specifically i think we need your assistance mr president with strong support from these excellent departments we have some 16 cabinet members on that commission

In my 27 months, there's yet to be one out of me.

Now, what happens on that, Mr. President, not just their input, it's the appearance.

And it reflects itself with the press and others of saying that the administration and the White House really doesn't care about the Vice President.

Now, that's the dichotomous situation of some saying we lose it politically and others saying we don't give a damn.

That's one.

Now, they're being represented in many cases by federal representatives.

I think that

and in many cases, those federal representatives and presidents are way down in the hierarchy.

They don't have the clout in response to what should be done.

And secondly, I find that many people say to the Fed Reps and all, how do you share the allegiance that some of us feel to the administration?

That sometimes bothers us, you know, and I've said over the years...

The bureaucracy.

The bureaucracy and so forth.

I think that if we could elevate that up to assistant secretaries and undersecretaries, and occasionally a cabinet member, Mr. President, we've got four meetings a year.

I mean, out of 13 cabinet members, that's 52 meetings.

We ought to be able to get one for each meeting or two, and that way you get... Well, we can handle this.

I would like a direction to go to the members of the cabinet.

that they are to appoint, to attend all these meetings, they are appointed assistant secretary.

Assistant secretary.

That's the one response.

Note that he is to attend all meetings, and is in all meetings with me.

And second, we have the officer himself

That's right.

This is going to be helpful.

Yes.

We can get that.

And again, the line, I think that perhaps I'm asking for more than I need to say for what I think it was.

Well, because I think this is going to work, and it's going to work well.

And that's been an indication to me.

I have a miserable day.

I think you have to go through all the criticism and the nitpicking and the nitpicking.

I watch them and say, it's terrible.

It's terrible.

Yeah, but with the amount of R.I.O.

The problem is that, well, the Philadelphia process is really

Now, Philadelphia was out of their goddamn mind, the businessmen and others up there, not to get busy and put on and lead a single city.

They're out of their mind.

They ought to do it.

It's worth my listening.

They should have had a World's Fair or something.

They've got the vision.

And that's the trouble now.

It's the 200th anniversary of the United States of America, and these assholes are playing this kind of game.

Just hearing you say it really is.

Well, actually, we put on that program, the archives, and we were on television.

The people seemed to be interested.

They bought $4,000.

That was it.

So it might be.

Well, I'm happy for you, Mr. President, to wait.

The people are interested.

We can get to them.

And it seems to me for us to lose this opportunity.

And I spoke to the job manager about six months ago.

And I said, you know, this is a tremendous thing.

I really think for us, if we do it right, but conversely, if we let it slip, it's not going to happen.

I've seen a few of them, and I'm glad you noticed.

I mark the position.

I know what the hell is happening.

I know what it is.

We're not backing it.

We are backing it.

But I guess our backing must become more prevalent.

What we want to do now, all the things that have to do with the...

and things like that, you can work with us and go follow up.

But basically, the whole conceptual thing, the idea is, Len's the man that's in charge, I will seize the man whose recommendations I will listen to.

You know what I mean?

So you and Len, keep it close to contact, and then Len do it, and Dave, and Steve, and

But what I've just been saying is that we'll see that you carry out operation.

Yes, sir.

That's your job.

I don't want you to do that.

I don't think it's reached that level.

They did not approve the money needed for the planning.

And I don't think they've got enough money in order to get that planning money.

Have we got any planning money?

Well, we don't have the planning money at the moment.

Can't we just take it out?

Is there any other place we can get it?

How much is it?

I really would scrap it.

It's such a good minute and a half.

We ought to get it in the TARP.

We'll get it, yeah, once we're needed.

uh but that's worth scrapping for it so we should really have the uh well that's developed that should be ready for 76 but we're going ahead with some of the planning we can do on the planning side find a little money i know we don't have an emergency fund

But good God, that dam department, the public works, I mean, the department of the interior, I mean, they are going to charge the parks.

They have plans.

Tell some of those jackasses to get out there and put some money over here.

Give them a half-million start so you can get somebody working on the dam plan.

The problem that David's struggling with here is the whole lean time factor.

I understand the situation.

Now let me ask you about the conference.

You're going to have a hell of a tough time up there aren't you?

What are you going to tell me?

What do you think?

The problem's broken into two pieces, Mr. President.

One is the mountains that the executive director and the investors attempted to stop getting because of the power of my field.

We should be able to find some of it and then put it there.

I think the reason we have direction is perhaps more politically inclined, but at least it's more common.

Now, go ahead before they go.

I think we have a good story to tell, Mr. President.

Well, the main thing, you can tell it well.

I can do it.

I mean, with respect, really, it's a question of a good story, but being able to tell it, you can tell it.

You would sell a bad service if you just go ahead and do it.

Well, that's right, sir.

I think we've got a good one, though, and I spoke to Holton.

We've done a lot of homework for this.

May I be presumptive again to say part of the problem that we hear, and I have identified a rumor, in fact, I don't know.

This commission, this Senate Investigation Committee, was really called together by Mathias and Kennedy, both who have their own reasons for it.

Uh, God knows we've tried to cooperate with Senator Mathias.

I've been to see him.

I've asked him to read congressional evidence for me, and he says he can't.

He is bringing this to the fore, for good or bad, I don't know.

Senator Kennedy is taking an active position, and I think there are two reasons, and I'll identify them as us, but from our sources and so forth, and from Senator Brooks' office, et cetera, et cetera,

A, he feels that the Republicans do, the Congress of Williams, the Congress of Trump, both Republicans, and the Senate of the Diocese, they can shot tickets at free rides.

The ride is right to him.

He's also going to demand that the rights of the president, so far as appointments to Memphis, be bipartisan.

I think they want to hear him.

for purposes other than ascertaining what's being done by the license.

And I think that that's one of the reasons I was saying to Brad and to Ken, we need a lot of legislative help.

We've been working now with Mr. Timmons and all of this to make sure that when we go before Congress, that Jerry Ford gets us the votes.

The big support we've had in Congress, Mr. President, really, the last time around, was from Julia Bubba Hanson and from Congressman Donnie O'Neill.

And Julia Bubba Hanson said, please tell the President of the United States that I'll support him on anything he wants on his bicentennial, but we need support from him.

He said, I'm getting bloody.

by fighting the Whindersons, Schmeichels, and the other Republicans.

In fact, I was at the Seagate this afternoon, and I knew Michael Carson.

He was a great Republican.

He wants it historic.

He wants the whole thrust of the thing to be history and not any emphasis, I guess, on the future or the involvement of other peoples or what have you.

And he's somewhat upset by the appointment of these younger members to the commission.

There's the point, sir, on the polarization.

He can't win it both ways.

And Schmeichel is always a guy, you know, who's up and beating a lot of good ideas and so forth.

Which he claims is, you know, very, very productive.

Now you talk to other people and they don't feel that.

They feel it was quite bad.

But what happens, Mr. President, you find some unhealthy coalitions in here, whooping against you.

Mr. Schwingel on one side saying it should all be history and the commission's not doing more than that.

And then you've got the diets on the other side saying, you know, we should be solving all the problems of the world.

Yeah.

But for all the money in the country.

Well, that's precisely it.

And it's somewhere in there.

And that's what I'm saying to the president.

I believe the purpose of these hearings that they're calling for, they...

They all find their shot, but it's all a different one.

You know, you in the light, I should be aware of it.

But I think our only salvation for the bicentennial of the country, what we want to do is to move in that direction rather than advocate and let it float and be saved up for every one of these babies that want to come along.

We should have the best executive staff, Mr. President, in Washington.

I think that it's more important that we have the pros, the knowledgeable, the swingers, the young people, rather than the staff that's been always given to us as handouts by the departments, which is where the staff started.

The staff can be a lot stronger.

The director can be a lot stronger.

But the next four years, Mr. President, this is where the action should be.

Because it's a commission that ends in four years, it has a peak in climate action four years, and all of the things about America, and all the things – it should have a high priority by your office, which I know you share, by the group of people we attract, by relations with Congress.

And then it will become self-reliant.

Realistically speaking, I would think that between now and the election, we're going to take some long-slip time that we can't recover from as part of the election.

ought to be on getting geared up so that we can move enough right after the election.

This doesn't need to be very practical.

Let me suggest that you recognize between non-election and are going to give you anything that they can help with.

Try to do the necessary thing that you can, basically a profile that you can after the election.

Then we can move in and throw out a reduction stat if you want to throw out, put in new people.

But I get up there and be very nice to these fellows.

And don't argue with them too much.

Don't tell this stupid charlatan to help me.

We want to cooperate and we should need your help and so forth, but it's going to be that.

Well, we're together and I told Senator, look, we got, I said, you want this, Congressman, but Senator Mathias wants that.

We're trying to do something in between.

I mean, we want to satisfy both.

We've got to satisfy the young and the old and all the rest.

I don't know.

My whole view is that from a realistic standpoint, you're going to be in charge, you know, because they did something good for us.

Right on my soul, as you know, and the rest know.

That's point one, and I think you have it.

Not that I doubt it, but secondly, that we keep in mind that you've got to...

It's awful.

Lots to go.

So we'll work with them.

On the cabinet thing, as I said, the main thing is get that directive out.

And then what we may do is relay the cabinet thing just a little with this thing in mind.

See what these people do.

You call meeting with your commission, right, a week or so after this.

And then these guys all show up.

And if you don't get the cooperation, then they get the cabinet.

He does the cabinet.

You see what I mean?

Rather than this, the cabinet should be informed.

Let's get you to sell on the lower levels, you know, by the order of the assistant secretaries.

By the assistant secretary level, nobody will order us to attend any meeting.

That's the norm.

Well, that's the one last point here, President, for the penalty of time.

Because, for instance, when I put forth all that the administration is doing in the last few days,

I believe that our role is to coordinate.

We can't implement everything for 50 days, and we should know how.

But we can coordinate through the departments.

But that means the departments have to tell us what the hell they're doing.

And you also have to give us the manpower.

If everybody sits back and says, this is mine, whether they got over there, I'm speaking directly, openly to you, it will work.

But I mean that they come in and say, this is what the president wants, and this is what the defense is planning, and this is what Congress is planning, and this is what else.

We could go before this commission, this committee, so we can inundate them with pointless progress.

Rather than something... You don't have to do that.

Not to any great degree.

Because... Because why?

Well, you know, you talk to somebody down the line and they have no power.

They say, well, we can't get up in very few cases.

Do we have...

They do it, you know.

Again, they work on directing.

I don't even see it.

But you've got the sense of what we want.

Yes.

And we have some good, strong, erecting views of people in our society.

Is that fair?

Yes.

Yes, sir.

Before we go, here's your, uh, here's your new truck.

What's new?

It's a new truck.

Obviously, it's, uh, it's one of those things.

Yeah.

There's a new one.

These are just trans.

Here's a new one.

When you were a wire, I was a punch man.

I didn't grow up in a cellar.

Yeah.

Were you getting that?

Yeah, I didn't want to practice it.

I said I'd be there after.

I said he kind of didn't know about this family.

He kept working so hard to get property.

I was a poor boy, but only as a rhythm boy.

They had to whip off my son.

I got alcohol and several others over lunch.

I wasn't good.

Do you like growing up in a cellar?

No, no, no.

Well, I wouldn't say.

Excellent.

Because that's what you're into.

I enjoy it.

Thank you for your help.