Nixon, Haldeman & Kissinger on Vietnam War and Paris Peace Talks

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We got word back from Dave on the McCabe place.

We have a suggested phone call from Hague and Timmons that you call Aiken, who expressed support and appreciation for his sponsorship of May 8th.

He's offering a resolution today to undercut the book thing, but they're afraid he's going to weaken on it.

Oh, is he?

Well, it says Aiken's enthusiasm is diminishing, as has his aggressiveness and seeming to win over undecided votes.

Hague has talked to him, expressed appreciation, told him that they've been responsible for the position by Congress.

I guess not.

That would be more effective.

I don't mind.

It's the same.

You express your appreciation until you understand the nature.

He knows the whole purpose of this is to avoid a compromise, because we can't go for a compromise.

Yeah.

He can talk with that.

He's finished that.

I don't think he will.

I wouldn't have done the box anyway, just on the basis that it creates a problem for the rest of the staff.

I was on the phone with Senator McIntyre about getting the water on.

I think I should do this.

If you did it, I'd be happy to do it.

What should I do now?

Just tell him that you'd appreciate it if this study could face.

This would be a big boost.

And that it's the most responsible amendment, and a great contribution, I'll promise you.

Always a great opportunity, sir.

Eight-year-old man.

He said it.

You know, I told you, I talked to Scott the other day.

I asked, Scott, now, if you could just explain to me as a political scientist, what the hell do these senators think you're doing?

They're doing.

He said they think the president is on to something and they want to get credit for it.

Why do I think it's just that they, these votes, the reason they're gaining in here is that they honestly think we're probably going to do something before the election, and they want to be the enemies.

Exactly.

But for Republicans to do it, I don't understand.

That's what Scott said.

And then I said, don't mind the afraid to screw it up.

He said, no, there's enough confidence in the two of you that no matter what we do, you can and can't be screwed up.

And so now you may agree on that.

But if I don't think that we ever survive this election.

Another thing I wanted to tell you that you might be interested in, Mr. President, Henry Grant, as you know, is doing a book on the foreign policy, which I think is going to be extremely favorable.

When's it going to come out?

After the election?

After the election, but part of it is going to be serialized before the election.

Oh.

And there's one article, one chapter, which life is doing, which describes the day he spent at your house, the day of your China.

Oh, yes.

And he swears it's the most human portrait of you that's ever been.

How cool you were and how human and how... And you picked a rose for his wife and you acted as if this was not the most momentous day.

I think it might actually not work that way.

He really does what he said he would.

We're not telling anybody about the next meeting.

There's Haig and Henry and I.

We're going to be the 14th.

Now, we've got to figure it out.

Nobody's going to know it in advance.

Then, assuming that various things go on, we will go on to Saigon.

We're going to come back then to Japan, to the Japanese, and on the ground.

That will be at a time when

Well, I think that should support you, Steve.

Oh.

Hello.

Hi.

You're getting my body.

You're going to be back in a few days.

We'll be back in a few days.

We're just very grateful for you.

That's what I'm going to do.

We'll be back a little later.

We'll be back in a few days.

I'm quite aware it's a very responsible thing to do, and why I wouldn't really ask.

And is it nonsense for me to go to the Senate?

No, I'll tell you.

Before this comes up, let me just do this.

Let me put Henry on for a minute, and he can give you the feel.

The difficulty with the statement is that a statement would follow up what we're trying to do.

But let me just put that.

Let Henry give you the, I think, just for your own

Hello?

Yeah, yeah, yes.

Yeah, here he is, just a second.

Hello, Senator.

One problem we have is that the North Vietnamese are almost psychotropic about having anything on each talk get out.

Because they feel that as long as we're talking seriously, it should be kept quiet and that it's pretty well complete.

But we have, of course, a few companies in June, so I can give you some of the feel.

And I think this is the first time in all the talks that we've had that we're doing

really serious examination with an attitude of British indifference.

And the reason we are so opposed to some of the other amendments other than yours is not that we disagree with every last word of them, but because any deviation now from the President's decision is going to give them an excuse to delay the tough decisions, and it's going to make them ask themselves whether they wouldn't be better off waiting another month or two

to see how that plays out.

So the great contribution of your amendment is that it shows the unity behind the president that helps them make the decisions, which we can't say in good conscience they're going to make.

But it's the first time in our experience that they're talking seriously.

Now, we would appreciate it if you didn't say it that way, because we're saying that for your government.

You can't even say it's hopeful in that sense.

But we are not saying this to you lightly.

And when we show you the record, when this is all over,

Whether it succeeds or fails, you will not look bad, to put it mildly.

I mean, you won't look as if you'd be taken in.

You won't be sorry.

And with all this language stuff that's going around, what's going to help is something now that shows some solid consistency.

that how they have interpreted deviations from it.

They can only either mean that there's some lawyer-like language in there that in fact supports the president, but is supposed to confuse the public so that they think of the public rather.

Or it shows that there is a difference between the president and the Senate, in which case they want to wait a bit to see how that plays out.

You know, it tends to presently call you, and also in interviews,

Well, the trouble with the Brooke substitute is it chopped off the ceasefire.

There's no ceasefire in the Brooke substitute at all.

Therefore, it's a major DBA from the president's position.

And therefore, if they were going to move in that direction, their temptation would be to hold out a way for the Brooke substitute.

And it shuts off funds.

Exactly.

Now, the shut-off of funds has two disabilities.

One, it shows that the congressman doesn't trust the president's promise and says in order to make him perform what he's promised to perform, we'll deprive him of the means to do otherwise.

The second difficulty is if we get this mayor's proposal or some variation,

Then, we certainly don't want the war to start again on the 121st day.

Now, this amendment practically tells the North Vietnamese, be quiet for four months, and then on the fourth month, the first day, when the Americans are without funds, climb up the retreats without the other guys.

So it really looks as if we're setting up the others for ourselves.

If we leave it a little bit late, we have a much better chance of getting an October

and his promise that all would be good enough.

Well, we don't want to deprive ourselves of the threat.

Essentially, you know as well as I do, after all the agony we've come through.

This president is going to rush back into Vietnam now.

Exactly.

But I can tell you, of course, I don't look at the domestic situation, but from where I sit on the foreign policy side, your amendment is the most statesmanlike act that I've seen in this election.

Well, we are very grateful to you.

Well,

The trouble is we just cannot do it and we'd rather lose the vote than break our promises to them.

We don't want to give them the feeling that we're just talking to them so that we can deal with our domestic opponents.

Exactly, Senator.

All the best to you.

Thank you.

That's a good job.

He's hard to handle, isn't he?

Well, he's a decent guy.

He's a man.

This is goddamn McIntyre.

But these bastards want to make it hard.

Well, can I give them a...

He's a son of a bitch.

He says, can I give them a statement that the negotiations are succeeding?

I said, Senator, I can't give you that statement.

Even if I could, I wouldn't let this study get placed.

I'm telling it to you, my judge.

You said it exactly right.

Well, we've got to be careful.

We lose the vote.

It's true.

It is a bill that is voted.

Because what they really want is the government.

That's right.

Just further on the beach thing, the house is available.

The weather outlook is cloudy with a south wind on Friday, which is not good.

It's not bad, but it's not good.

South wind is okay.

West wind is bad.

Whatever it is, the wind is bad Friday.

West wind is bad.

South wind is okay.

East wind is good.

On Saturday and Sunday, it's fair with sunny skies.

Wind northeast and east 10 to 15 knots, which is perfect.

That's the ideal weather.

So the thought probably would be that what you ought to do is wait and go out like Friday for dinner.

You don't care about folks in the evening.

But you probably wouldn't want to go out for Friday afternoon.

Now, it won't be buggy, but it won't be clear.

No, Rose, could you bring it?

Rosa, what time does Bradley better come from Val?

Something like this.

I think he usually gets around exactly 4 or 4.30.

I'd like to take it myself.

Maybe 5 o'clock would be better.

The other thing I'd like you to do is, you know, arrange to have Bill Dunn go and sing.

We've got this kind of web, and we've never asked him.

I'm sure that's exactly what it is.

He's gone for a while.

Well, he didn't.

He just came to the party line.

But rather than saying, how'd you know him?

I'll ask if he has any x-rays to bring him in with me.

No, but they take x-rays sometimes.

And if they x-ray, then Ryland will know exactly what's going on.

Nixon, Haldeman & Kissinger on Vietnam War and Paris Peace Talks

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

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Also recorded on August 2, 1972

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Nixon, Haldeman & Kissinger on Vietnam War and Paris Peace Talks

AI Summary

Audio

NARA Description

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Transcript (AI-generated)

Also recorded on August 2, 1972

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