Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 760 › Conversation 760-014
Nixon, Kissinger & Butterfield on Hawaii and John S. McCain Jr.
Thursday, August 3, 1972 · 11:12 AM–11:37 AM ET · Oval Office · 10 min
AI Summary
In this meeting, President Nixon consulted with Alexander Butterfield and Henry Kissinger regarding logistics for his upcoming trip to Hawaii, which included plans for Admiral John S. McCain Jr.'s retirement ceremony and potential events with Clare Boothe Luce. The President and Kissinger also discussed domestic administration policy concerning the debt ceiling and frustrations regarding Secretary of Defense Melvin Laird’s public messaging. Finally, they reviewed sensitive foreign policy strategy, specifically coordinating with the People’s Republic of China regarding the Soviet Union and negotiating a potential path forward in Vietnam.
- Hawaii
- John S. McCain Jr.
- Debt ceiling
- Foreign policy
- People's Republic of China
- Vietnam
Audio
Transcript (AI-generated)
This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.
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Oh, nice to meet you.
Yeah, nice to meet you.
We're talking about Evan McKinnon's retirement today.
You know, they're going to be in Hawaii on September 1st, which is the day he does what he wishes to command.
How much is there going to be on the first?
Well, here, there, all the way between that.
They're having a retirement dinner.
I'm not going to do it, but I'd like you to tell us.
No problem.
You should have that, because that's a big deal.
And I have a thing that on the day that he's returning to the ceremony, if I, well, I mean, he was Japanese that day.
Well, I mean, he was Japanese the day before.
Well, in fact, if it's the day, if I agree, I would like to go to the ceremony.
I'd like to go to the ceremony.
if I'm not free.
The letter goes, we're talking about dinner tonight.
Sure.
But I'll be glad to go if I'm free, which is fine.
Oh, yes.
We're saying they were in Hawaii.
Yes, the ceremony.
They'd love it.
Well, the thing is, I've just said if I don't meet them, they'll schedule it for the day, both times, if you can do it.
That's another thing.
If we can have the dinner, you know what I mean?
If we can have the...
I don't want to have the dinner.
If we can have the
I think his ceremony is September 3rd.
No, but they'll move it up.
The other fellow, I think, is planning to leave around noon.
So if you did it, say, around 1, 2 a.m. just before you leave.
If you work on something, we're going to do it.
And I'd be glad to go on.
The parenting's a nice thing.
I'd like you to give him a medal.
Yes, that'd be exciting.
I'd love to give him a medal.
We'll read a message at the end.
Yeah, read a good message, you know, very warm.
I'm getting Laird to make a statement on the debt ceiling.
I think Ehrlichman and Weinberger are a little bit hysterical about this.
But Laird has promised to make a statement saying that he supports the debt ceiling, that he doesn't think it should be achieved by cutting defense programs, but he knows you support him on that so that he's fully aboard.
Well, the problem that we have is that it does appear to be that
Great administration ranks.
It goes damn well.
And I know that I'm at the banana on the today show, so it did not indicate that we, the defense was not, the criminals were quite done.
Laird is doing everything to put a little daylight between us and him.
Why all this?
This is crazy bad.
Laird is almost beyond my... You know what?
He doesn't know what he's lying about, he isn't.
Claire Lewis called for your consideration.
She has two ideas, one of which you don't have the part of.
And she thinks if we could have either a session or a ceremony at the East-West Center in Hawaii, it would aid the symbolic good.
And secondly, it would remove that East-West Center even more from the influence of the university, which is totally anti-administration.
And that's something not...
That's worth thinking about.
Secondly, she says, if you could... One problem I have with that, just to start with the first one, the university being totally an administration, it's likely to have one whole lot of...
But the East West Center isn't at the university.
They get there with the kids.
That may be a guess.
I'd be glad to know if it weren't for that.
This is not a major thing, but the second point she made, you might want to consider it.
I'll make it on the pass early.
On the pass early?
Yep.
First pass, lay it on that pass early.
What are your viewpoints about my entry?
about the trip to hawaii if we do a reception this connection should go because it's a great asset to have a woman along with women like this here now i personally would rather have a gather so that the meeting does not involve other than now when we went to moscow though we didn't uh
I think Mrs. Nixon is in a different category from Mrs. Rogers and other, their wives.
But tell me, can you do it so that the Japanese don't bring their wives?
Oh, yes.
They don't want to bring their wives.
The Japanese aren't comfortable with that.
Right.
Well, let's do it that way.
Also, then we can have working dinners and Mrs. Nixon will not participate in the dinners.
That's right.
I can have her go to Clara Lucy's for a little good or something like that.
That's right.
I've had other questions.
But someday this thing's going to catch up with me.
I've told the Chinese about the Soviets.
Because I figured it'd be better not to.
And I won't ask their reaction.
And they came back within three days, which is a good record.
But I couldn't see them.
They won't be seeing my dad tomorrow.
So I'm going to... We're going to be out tonight, huh?
Tomorrow afternoon.
Just for a couple of more reasons, I'm saying.
Or there'll be one, but you can't say.
But since we won't accept the Soviet version, any improvement we can then sell to the Chinese is heavy.
The strategy without the Chinese is smoke.
And the second thing is the Germans have asked me about resuming a part-time job with my relations with China, and that's my views.
Others came from far.
So I'm going to be far double-talking after the TKZ to the Russians, but I won't look.
You see, I arranged for Trudeau to go there.
I told him, don't invite a socialist, invite a Christian Democrat.
See, I figured if we can give the Christian Democrats another communist country to play with, that the Russians, that splits the Christian Democrats from the socialists and the Christian Democrats on the side, I think it
and he can be a Christian Democrat.
And that way, and it makes the Chinese people, we are useful to them.
What I'm going to tell the Chinese tomorrow, if I'm going to talk to them, I'm going to say, look, here is our strategy.
We are convinced that in a pact around 74 and 75, we will not let you be defeated.
On the other hand, the only way we can do this
And then I said, there's only one man in America who can carry out this strategy.
And that's the president.
And I think it's time for you to consider whether that's a good idea.
I'm sorry.
It's not a good idea.
It's just so right.
Dad, you know, they ought to help us, shouldn't they?
They don't make it that way.
Well, you know what they...
Have a depressing effect on the narcos and me.
Do you think it has?
Oh, I've had a cable from Duncan.
And he said this is the best hope that he has made for us.
It's a massive problem.
He said it's like that.
He said we can't show it yet.
He's gorgeous that I grow out of it.
Oh, listen.
You're going out there.
The best...
Right.
NARA Description
On August 3, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Alexander P. Butterfield, Henry A. Kissinger, Stephen B. Bull, and the White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:12 am to 11:37 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 760-014 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 760-14
Date: August 3, 1972
Time: 11:12 am - 11:37 am
Location: Oval Office
The President met with Alexander P. Butterfield.
The President's schedule
-Adm. John S. McCain, Jr.'s retirement
-Retirement ceremony and dinner
-Location
-Hawaii
-Timing
-Possible message
-The President’s possible attendance at retirement ceremony
-The President's forthcoming meeting with
Japanese leaders
-Possible presentation of award
Henry A. Kissinger entered at 11:15 am.
Stephen B. Bull entered at 11:15 am.
The President’s forthcoming meeting
-List of attendees
Bull left at 11:15 am.
The President’s forthcoming message to McCain
-McCain’s retirement dinner
Butterfield left at 11:15 am.
Administration policy
-Debt ceiling
-Melvin R. Laird’s forthcoming statement
-Kissinger
-John D. Ehrlichman
-Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger
-Laird’s support for the Administration’s policy
-Ehrlichman’s previous statement
-Today Show
-Laird
*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 6m 57s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
*****************************************************************
Clare Boothe Luce
-Previous telephone call to Kissinger
-Possible Presidential event at the East-West Center
-Effect
-University of Hawaii
-Possible opposition to event
*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 3m 43s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
*****************************************************************
The President talked with the White House operator at 11:33 am.
[Conversation No. 760-14A]
[See Conversation No. 28-50]
[End of telephone conversation]
Bull entered at an unknown time after 11:33 am.
[Laird’s forthcoming statement on the Administration’s debt ceiling]
-Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
-Ehrlichman
-Laird
-Ehrlichman
Bull left at an unknown time before 11:37 am.
*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 2m 6s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
*****************************************************************
The President’s forthcoming trip to Hawaii
-Possible reception
-Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon
-The President's previous trip to the Soviet Union
-Compared to Adele (Langston) Rogers
-Wives of Japanese officials
-Possible event with Luce
*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 26s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
*****************************************************************
The President’s forthcoming trip to Hawaii
-Forthcoming message to Kakuei Tanaka
-Participation of wives
-Mrs. Nixon
-Rogers
People's Republic of China [PRC]
-Soviet Union’s proposed nuclear nonaggression treaty
-PRC reaction
-Kissinger’s forthcoming meeting with PRC officials
-New York
West Germany
-Possible establishment of diplomatic relations with the PRC
-Egon Bahr
-Soviet Union
-Kissinger’s view
-Gerhard Schroeder
-Socialists
-Christian Democrats
-Socialists
-PRC
Kissinger’s forthcoming meeting with PRC officials
-Soviet Union
The White House operator talked with the President at an unknown time between 11:33 am and
11:37 am.
[Conversation No. 760-14B]
[See Conversation No. 28-51]
[End of telephone conversation]
Kissinger's forthcoming meeting with PRC officials
-The President
-Vietnam
Vietnam
-PRC
-Soviet Union
-North Vietnamese
-Telegram from Ellsworth F. Bunker
-North Vietnamese offer
-Kissinger’s forthcoming trip to Saigon
-Announcement
Kissinger left at 11:37 am.
The President left at 11:38 am.Also recorded on August 3, 1972
- 760-010 10:42 AM · 28 min — President Richard M. Nixon, John S. D. Eisenhower, David R. Young, Jr., and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:42 am to 11:10 am.
- 760-011 11:10 AM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 11:10 am and 11:12 am.
- 760-012 11:10 AM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 11:10 am and 11:12 am.
- 760-013 11:10 AM · 19 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 11:10 am and 11:12 am.
- 028-050 11:33 AM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 11:33 am.
- 028-051 11:33 AM · 15 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 11:33 am and 11:37 am.
- 028-052 11:33 AM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 11:33 am and 11:37 am.
- 760-015 11:38 AM · 51 sec — United States Secret Service agents and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 11:38 am and 11:41 am.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 760-014, August 3, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/760-014 (accessed October 1, 2026).