Conversation 763-016

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The problem with the waterway that occurred to me, I was thinking about it for a weekend.

Which is really more disturbing than the lighting.

The lighting is terrible.

The problem is the lighting is not appropriate.

But those restrictions on private industries and TV are going to have an enormous effect on jobs.

I just think it goes overboard too far.

If I have a wrong impression on that, I need to know what's going on.

Thank you.

Right.

The restrictions on industry are translated into a very heavy financial burden on industry.

That's right.

And would be a form of tax.

Oh, it's... Yeah, let's see.

Well, it's in a ratio of about 40 to 281 and 7.

Given the environment in relation to the other side of the plot, you're right.

Right.

You'd have to probably agree with that.

Well, if I were on the other side, I could see it.

I could argue.

But it seems to me what we come down to is responsible management versus big standards.

They'll talk about the environment.

They'll talk about caring about the little kids paddling in the dirty rivers.

And the fact that we're going to say, we've got a program for it, and we want to help read our operations.

We've got to frame this issue, and we're going to take our lumps on the emotional end of every one of these.

Somehow or another, we've got to get our guys out articulating our position, which is that those little kids out paddling in that dirty river all have parents, and their parents are taxpayers.

And the little kid isn't going to be able to even get to the river if his parents can't afford the gasoline driving there.

And if taxes keep going up and up and up, we're squeezing families right out of all recreation.

So there isn't any point in cleaning up the rivers if we're going to keep people from having a good time.

And payroll taxes, same thing.

So we just got to figure out how to put up a defensive barrage on this subject of this guy having his hand in their pocket.

We've got to have voters thinking of higher taxes by McGovern rather than bullshit by us.

McGovern is a crazy big spender with his hand in the taxpayer's pocket.

The president is a responsible manager looking out for the little guy, trying to make sure that the crazy big spenders in the McGovernite wing of the Senate don't steal him blind.

Most of the jobs that will be made here, this will cost jobs.

Right.

Strongly made.

Right.

Well, it's a tough one, and there's no easy way out of it.

That's right.

It's going to be a real PR battle to get this thing across.

It seems to me that at some point in the campaign, you're going to have to hit it head on.

And you're going to have to discuss dirty water, and how much you want clean water, and how much more important it is to have taxes under control, and argue the things.

And clean water.

You can have both.

Just like you can have defense.

We're going to spend a lot of money on clean water.

We have a lot of money on clean water.

Not as much, not as fast.

Well, it's a question of responsibility, which it seems to me is going to be an issue.

I mean, one of those across-the-board issues.

Sir, can you discuss this with the PR group?

Can you discuss that?

Yes, and also- Who's in that now in terms of PR judgment?

I guess here you go.

I was in Colson Senate.

I understand, but we've got quite a mix.

There's practical guys and PR types.

Scali is in it.

Around the table, there's Des Barker.

Ziegler's got a guy in there each time.

McGregor's got a guy in there.

His PR guy from across the street is in there.

It meets twice a week, and we talk about the presentation of these kinds of issues on about a seven-day time span.

Now, I've also discussed this with the political group, Harlow, McGregor, Mitchell, and so on.

And they're pretty unanimously down on the side of Neto for credibility in the fiscal tables earlier this night.

That's right.

But I think he's pretty well around now on it.

And the leadership.

I think the leadership's got to understand that a guy like Scott could fall off on a thing of this kind from sheer cowardice.

He's great if he can get a position.

His tendencies, his adult position, his tendencies are unfortunate.

He keeps saying, I have principles.

The rest of us aren't producing.

Yeah, I hit him on bussing the other day.

He says, well, John, so does Jack, but I have principles.

Yeah.

Bussing, I still think we're keeping that old, great sport.

What's the latest thing?

No change.

It's still bubbling along.

This is where the last time we talked.

Tomorrow, the Rules Committee meets on the moratorium if Calmer can count the votes.

If he hasn't got the votes, he'll defer it again.

In the meantime, will the vote in the Constitution Council come up?

No, I don't think it will, at least not before the convention.

No chance.

That's right.

Well, but we're living from week to week on that and a number of other things.

They're talking to Calmer.

Between the 1st and the 10th.

I think it's smart when he says he'll talk about the 1st, but we'll be lucky to get him out of here by the 10th.

He won't come back until the 5th or 6th of September.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, now I'll come to Luke Price.

Okay.

Luke Price really is a political decision, pure and simple.

I have yet to talk to Connolly.

And I have talked to Arthur, I've talked to George, I've talked to Herb, I've talked to the political group this morning, and I've been all around the horn.

But I think Connolly really has to give a service because of the kind of unique combination that he presents to you.

So I'm seeing him at 1.30 today, and then I'd like to put it all together for you.

My way of a progress report only, my feeling right now is that we are not as solid in the farm health as the numbers indicate we are.

The advice that the community gives us, that's right, and the advice that people are giving us, that we've had all the free kicks as a farmer that we're going to get, is probably sound advice.

And so whatever we do do ought to be with as much sensitivity to our farm bill problem as possible.

Now, that doesn't say that there is something we can't do.

ARCA comes up with a suggestion that I haven't checked out right now, which is that we look at profit margins.

and that we bear down there.

Oh, I couldn't agree more with that.

So that'll kick the market, they ask.

Well, they don't care.

They ought to help.

He says that's a way of getting at the same kind of people we're talking about when we talk about food prices, if what we're looking for is a political plus.

And that on the anniversary of the first year, we take a look and we say, well, it's been a good year.

Inflation's come down.

It's helped everybody.

But it's helped one group of the society inordinately.

And I said, well, Arthur, what do you say to George Shultz when he says profits are low and have been low and that really they're just beginning to get well?

Oh, he says, that's true.

But that doesn't matter.

He says, most people don't know that.

And he says, we're talking politics now.

The headline in the post this morning is unprecedented corporate profits.

So that's kind of the business pieces of this.

But then let me have a little more time.

Well, we've got to do it by day after tomorrow, I think.

We've got to decide.

Decide?

Yes, sir.

That's right.

Because we're getting some economic briefings together for the press.

We're in an all-day session here.

Who are the people that... Who's doing any of the analysis?

Well, you may not know the attitudes.

Well, Teeter's doing this raw data.

Burns has some reasons that he's doing it because of his contact with the bankers from Midwest, and particularly the smaller bankers.

And he feels, just talking to them, that there's a residual bitterness on account of the Hyatt saying and the median court saying.

But the Hyatt saying was about that boo-boo.

It was the saying, pure and simple.

Pure and simple.

Yep.

That Peterson thing.

Just no question about that.

Thank God it's not doing any credit at all.

No, that's right.

We wish to Christ we could have a boo-boo one day earlier.

Well, it's a situation where the law gave the control to the Secretary of Commerce, and he did it.

That's it.

It was a bad call, but that and the meat and pork quota thing and one or two other things, he wasn't specific on.

Well, you took account of a whole large group of people.

We looked at the effects on others, and we haven't realized on the plus side of the first, we've had our program of export, and so the amount of cart sales, they've been amazing.

And that's what we're trying to find.

And we're trying to find a way to do that.

Well, that's the call.

And I think that's really what it comes down to.

He had jumped off that thing.

I would not take the judgment of Arlo or Whitaker.

They're too close to him.

Yeah, they are.

Yeah.

What do we listen to, even though he's close to the closest?

His analysis is that while we made a turnaround in the last eight months, we aren't well yet.

Well, looking at the other side of the coin, I'll say to you again, I feel that that type of food prices, what's going to happen to them, that's the other part.

They're coming down, everybody agrees.

Yeah.

That it is all a deadline, everybody feels.

The meat price is coming down sharper than the others, but the other is flattening out.

Well, how about having them cut down on the wheat and the cod liver here?

Get them all in.

Dog on the headline.

Well, I can't pledge.

Maybe I have to do it myself, right?

These prices are going to happen.

Why not have a voluntary freeze by the, uh, by the, uh, by the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on

I don't know.

Well, let's see if they want to turn him up.

You want to give him the ID?

Or you want to do the voluntary release?

Let me ask Conway how he reacts to that, because he's been in on so much of this jail-bombing.

Now, while we were at San Clemente, they jail-bombed this whole crowd.

Yeah.

And had them all in.

We had the IRS all over the backs.

They've been in there, digging around their books and so on.

But we have them back.

People have probably forgotten that they were in here until I came back.

John Schultz can't make any impact on this job.

He would have to.

I have to, et cetera.

That's the point.

Maybe that's time to use the big gun.

Maybe we use the big gun now.

Or harvest to a team.

So then, particularly, if you're going to get out of it, I'd maybe wait until after the CPI comes up.

And I was just like, we should be up.

How about this?

How about on the 15th?

kind of a year-end report, and then you go into a side room where these guys all are, and you say, now, man, see, for the first year, everybody in this country has done their part.

There's just one area that's out of line, and it's you all.

Now, what are we going to do about it?

What are we going to do about it?

And they'll all say, well, we're going to do this.

All right.

There's pressures.

You should rehire something to be done.

You should do it yourselves.

And you can say the construction is to be done.

Now, they were our worst problem a year ago.

They assembled themselves.

They worked out their own mode of procedure.

They had done a lot of bleeding them.

And I've got a man here in the next room who is going to be the John Dunlop of the food industry.

And I'm just going to leave you in this room with him.

So you don't get yourself sorted out.

I don't know, he might be somebody, some academic or a retired businessman or something.

Well, he's on the farmer end.

You've got to get some guy who straddles the whole thing.

But, in the same sense that you have a construction industry stabilization committee, you have a food industry stabilization committee.

Well, see, there again, he's in the toils of the retailers.

He's at their mercy.

It would have to be a guy, sort of a Dave Packard type.

Wow.

He's pissed on the construction industry.

Yeah.

It would have to be a guy that didn't come from the industry.

who had credentials, maybe a retired business manager, former ambassador, or somebody of that kind who got a lot of balls, and who could knock their heads together and say, okay, our goal here is to keep these prices down.

Now, how are we going to do that?

Can Rob Snow do more than he's done?

Is it just on his nature to pay for things by cheating people around?

Let's ask that question.

I don't know.

I just think there's actually a more steel in the attacks.

Let's face it, it wasn't Conley.

Of course, he was a big name, but also Conley was one hell of a cutting edge.

Yep.

Charles was not a cutting edge, let's face it.

Well, I don't know how this industry stabilization thing might go, but it's certainly an action step.

Rather than that, it is spent by the vicious guy and the labor guy.

Oh, sure.

They have to cut across.

They have to start with the farmer.

Go from the farmers through the processors and the jobbers and the retailers and the whole apparatus and the labor side of all of that.

But we think the meat prices will begin to...

They have begun.

They're down $3 a hundred.

Not yet, but they will.

They will.

These backers, these Jews, do not turn that back.

Their margins are small.

They've had a letter.

And the letter says, we know the price has come down from the farmer to the packer.

An IRS agent will be calling on you.

We are concerned about this passing through to the consumer.

Yes, it's in the apparatus to get up.

But the IRS agent is going to come around.

lean on these guys.

We did that in preference of calling back because they've been here just in the last two weeks.

Alright, good.

We'll talk about it.

I'll be ready.

I can't, I can't frankly do a hell of a lot more after this week.

Right.

Because then I've got to do the final work right then.

So I spent that week as dead.

I mean, I'll go out and, you know, make little announcements around it and so forth.

But I can't get into the law, you know.

We've got the Wilkes-Barre thing also on the pan for you at some point.

I know that we're sending out over your name to Romney, telling him to get his ass up to Wilkes-Barre and get the thing straightened out, because we don't want to send you in there and get you planted on by a bunch of irate people.

But that's possible.

I'm not sure that we're sure at this point.

I think we'll get to it.

Well, it's screwed up in a sense.

They've hired a lot of local people who don't know the answers to all the questions.

And so it's frustrating.

The guy comes in and he says, how do I get my hot water heater replaced?

Do I get any federal money for doing that?

And the guy says, Jesus, I ain't going to know the answer to that in just a minute.

I'll try to find out.

He calls around and says, Jesus, I don't know.

I can't find out.

I'll have to get back to you.

And the guy goes stamping out and says, well, what the hell?

The federal government should go in there with a second question.

There's a lot of that, and it's finally escalated to the point where the mayor is saying, get these feds out of here and we'll run this thing by the city government and we'll do a decent job.

It didn't do any good meeting with the mayors.

Yep, just as good.

Got a lot of PR up in Pennsylvania, which is now being eroded by this kind of stuff.

He's got to go up there and take the heat and get the thing straightened out.

He's collaring for more employees for HUD to service mortgage guarantees that are badly backed up.

He's getting a lot of heat from the Mortgage Bankers Association.

So he's got a budgeted deal in here.

He wants 700 more employees.

I want you to pass the word this morning that that whole thing is held up until we get Wilkes-Barre straightened out.

And, uh, so then, uh, Captain, I don't... One of the parts that I, uh, will raise, uh, which, uh, when, uh, Bob gets back to work...

If, if he doesn't have to do this to get Bob the hell out of there...

Well, he's got, he's got guys who can, they can worry about who these people can do that kind of stuff.

He's got a pretty good judgment and Bob can look at it at the high level.

I think, frankly, you soak up a tremendous amount of Bob's time.

That's right.

just about office time.

And if he's going to take on a thing of this kind, then he would have to be the creator of... Well, I will at any event, because I've got to start talking as I have recently to more people.

That's right.

People that are, I mean, I'm going to have to talk to Colin.

Yep.

He's up whenever he's here.

I see him twice a week.

Right.

Very important.

Well, Alex can handle nuts and bolts staff sub.

And free Bob up.

Um...

to an extent, I think, greater than we're used to.

I think Bob could give Alex Rudy the schedule.

Yeah.

And pull Bob off of that.

Bob, I don't think Bob, without commotion, he's better at it.

Yeah.

But I can work it out.

It's a question of agreement.

And I don't think Bob wants to give that up.

I'm sure.

I stressed some of them.

I said, leave it to the bull.

I'll talk to the bull about it.

We do it better than Bob.

And he's not better, but he's got the time for it.

I think Bob is... Bob should get on the schedule.

He's sensitive to your needs and likes and dislikes, things of that kind.

He should work with it.

But at the present time on the schedule, I see no reason why Steve Boal

Or Chapin, or...

This guy, Dave Parker, who does your scheduling, is a nice young kid who really is in the middle of it and could back Steve up on something of this kind.

Or Alex, or whoever you find.

I think Parker's the man.

Parker's the man for another reason, too, since he is doing the scheduling.

I think what we'll do is...

It shouldn't be Alex, because Alex, as I have the experience of political judgment, he is excellent at carrying out and so forth.

And of course, he's dealing with Narcos and all that crap, you know, getting the paper done and so forth.

But maybe what we ought to do is have Parker come in.

Then I start talking to Parker directly with him on schedule.

Well, now, I see one drawback with Parker, and that is that he won't argue with me.

He'll, he'll, he'll...

In other words, if you say yes, then it'll be yes.

If you say no, it'll be no.

And he won't come back at you.

And I think in a particular case, if you want to get him to take it, you want somebody to talk it through.

Yeah, we first of all, that's very easy because he'll say, well, he'll understand what the argument is.

So I think, actually, Parker's bright as hell, and he's effective.

And I think if we were to approach him on that basis and say, listen, I want you to talk him through it.

What's your suggestion?

And a lot of us can do that.

I can say, what a place it was.

And he used to go around and check with the people.

Oh, he does anyway.

He does actually say, we all know how to influence.

It's a bad idea.

He does that routinely everywhere.

And when Bob used to decide that he's usually drawing on what a lot of people around here say,

Yeah, I think Parker's judgment would be better than Chapin's on that.

I think Chapin is a better operator than Parker.

It's perhaps better, it's more balanced.

That's the way I'll judge that.

Chapin's curve is also the idea of that.

But he's not really the, what you need is a

If Bob had the time, he'd be the ideal guy to set the line.

Well, sit down and see that it's done.

Yeah.

Well, he'll draw on the people who need to have an input.

Because you see, this has to be done every day.

Have you set up an agenda for that?

That is the best way to do something.

If we're going to have a leaders meeting or a cabinet meeting,

The agenda is so important on that, as far as waste of time and so forth.

I made a couple of notes on this one, which is why I'm here.

I'm here for Christ's sake, rather than having this job.

No account of how bad the budget situation is.

Tell us how much the very budget is going to cost, and I'll make a point.

which they actually wouldn't have thought of.

But, you know, they've got it.

What I mean is that I feel that Alex started talking to Tim, which he's done, and coming in and saying, well, here's a suggestion for leadership.

That's the most important thing.

And then what do we want them to say afterwards?

That should all be on.

That's the big part.

Right.

What do we want to have come out of this meeting?

The same with the cabinet thing.

I think that sort of decision should be one, frankly, that even on that, Bob really ought to, rather than on that, Bob really ought to have a meeting.

I mean, Alex should simply be the guy to carry it on.

Bob should have a meeting, but maybe Jim is huge and happy.

And, uh, you sit down and say, well, now, my, you know, what the hell do I do when I come out here?

You might have closed this down, too, because it's going on page.

But, but, but you see, it doesn't, I think we treat too cavalier a fashion.

Our taste, that's, it'll stand.

You know, they sent me a whole paper of these and all that.

That's, you know, well, listen, you know, well, I understand that.

But, again, it's a nice story.

I think that's, in other words, delegation of duty that is not at its best, because it is an algae-strong point of depth.

It's a curve to carry it on.

And we'll learn in the next time.

You know, it takes a hell of a lot of time to know what you know and Bob knows about this sort of thing.

And, uh, the, uh, you gotta get the balance, the judgments and all that sort of thing.

They don't, well, most people don't really understand it.

I think that's probably timely.

If we have our lines set so that they go out and they hit this white paper, I think that's fine.

He's got Stein.

Well, that's fine.

But I think there has to be a kind of a nasty political angle to this that Stein won't peddle.

And they're getting a lot of facts and other actors on my part, so they keep that in the helm of their budget.

And let me put it this way.

We've got to quit making these goddamn things a million years educational.

They're going to be educated.

They're really...

They're there to be positioned.

You know, we ought to have, we ought to get a big board and paint on there what George McGovern said about how he doesn't understand economic things.

Just so that that's sitting up there when they walk in.

Well, we will find ways to get Bob to, in terms of his time, I would say the amount of, there's one area where he really can't get on the next line.

Because I've thought it through already.

I know about mine.

I have a pretty good idea as to where it's going to be going.

And Marker would come in and say, we've got a great idea this week.

Let's talk about it and see.

And then we have to call somebody else in.

But Bob shouldn't have to be.

going through it, take part in it in time.

That's right.

Well, the more minutia that Bob can get out of worrying about, you know, the operations.

Yes.

Like, should I go to Florida?

How about going to the Eastern Shore?

He can get some things like that.

That isn't necessary.

I can go full, you know what I mean?

I can say...

Or you can get the military and say, look, we've checked all this stuff with the Secret Service.

Well, we just got to use people like that, John.

You get those fellows in, if you hiccup, they'll do it.

With Bob, he'll give you a little fight on some of this and help you to reason it through as a second guess.

So I think that's kind of important.

I think if you tell him to, he will.

He's a good, tough kid.

He's young, but he's right himself.

He's done it enough, but he must have a good, he knows the moves.

The best guys I've got around are the guys who give me an argument on stuff and who make me think and prove.

They're very good with that.

As far as the precedence is concerned, what we do with the rest of the mountain sailors is the best.

I like to get Clyde in and the rest of it.

Clyde is so flabby.

Every time I do that, I just think, Jesus, why did I call him in?

Do you find that?

Well, he's a bird.

He hangs on you, you know.

He tends to pass his troubles to you instead of taking your troubles and solving them for you.

Yeah.

He's straight arrowing.

He tells us to get into bullshit and says, I don't think you ought to do it.

I think you ought to do this in front of time.

The difference in working with those two guys is just night and day.

Yeah.

You could have never run the solver supply.

No.

But we'll have, I can be the same for that.

I can use Alex basically in all the personal scheduling.

The only thing really that you need partners for is basically scheduling for long range planning events.

Let's just get into one.

What if the problem involves what we do and why we arrive at 8 or 8 a.m. and meet with the good and clarity reception for 150 people or when we arrive the next day or whatever?

Well, you're not just talking about scheduling in a logistic sense.

You're talking about political judgment.

That's right.

And I think you ought to take Bob's advice on the politics of that.

In other words, the basic concept, is this just a trip for foreign affairs, or is this a trip where we're also going to do political things?

And then we should get Parker to decide.

Parker can do this.

Parker can take advice.

Bob and me and anybody else who's campaigned Hawaii or knows the lay of the land there.

And then he can come back at you and say, well, look, here's a tentative proposal that I've developed.

I want to get your reaction to it.

The first day we do this and this and this, and you say, well, I don't like that, or I don't want to get any requirements, or whatever your reaction to it is, and...

That's part of his staff work before he comes back.

Yeah, basically.

Part of it.

Bob said part of his job is to run the attack, counterattack thing.

It's my role.

Sure.

But part of the role is something else.

Well, I see.

I think we can pull a lot of this off.

We can have Alex be the person.

So Alex can pull between.

There's anything like what I'm going to go with or I'm going to go to camp for the night.

These are things which Bob gets to all these things.

He said work for Bob, don't keep him informed.

Well I don't want him to work for Bob.

What we need is a commander sitting there just thinking about these matters.

And Bob has also done something else, he's immersed himself in the polls.

So he's going to, he understands this.

far better than anybody else because he's immersed himself in the issue of polls as well as the others.

He studied it all through.

He doesn't easily move by any crowd.

So therefore, his judgment might be something a hell of a lot better than anybody else's.

I think so.

At the same time, I hate to see you lose his talents in terms of the overall scheduling

on the campaign side, I think that's where Parker will be weak, because he's never had any campaign experience.

He doesn't know the country.

And it seems to me that that is consistent with this other thing that Bob would be doing, for him to have primary responsibility for the campaign scheduling.

Well, that's based on the next two weeks of the convention.

That's right.

Parker can handle that kind of stuff.

Oh, sure.

Sure, that's execution.

That's right.

But it comes down to a question of, say, the first week in October.

Do you make a swing to the west?

What kind of events should they be?

Yeah, those kinds of things.

It seems to me that's where Bob comes in heavily and has to... Yeah, but if he comes in heavily there, John, the question is

I don't think it needs to.

I know, but I think he can do both and do it well.

I think if you have to work it out with Parker on those kinds of swings, we're really throwing away a valuable resource.

Because Holloman's been at that for so many years that he just knows it's there.

Well, we can feed him substance, if that's what he wants.

all of that that he needs.

You know, I say to Melody, in terms of saying, gee, what should we do in the counter-contact?

Well, he can't just say that, throw that out to one of the boys in there.

No, that's right.

Everything needs a second man.

An executive officer.

What is Chamberlain doing?

Oh, Chamberlain's up.

He's doing a lot of special events planning, and he'll be doing campaign planning and that kind of stuff as home as deputy in that end.

He's being called.

Well.

I don't know who all he's got there.

Well, he doesn't have any.

I don't see he doesn't have any.

People say he's the quality of a crow there.

But you could have people like Crow.

I can loan him somebody at that time.

Yeah.

And maybe he can have any one of those guys he wants.

I should ask, what is the decision on Ancreas and so forth?

The decision was for him to go ahead and make his announcement.

We ran it around through Dean, and Dean says, well, if he does, he's going to incur gift tax.

I wonder if he knows that.

And so they were checking back.

Clark was checking back with him over the weekend to see if he could be positioned to say he gave several committees to avoid the gift tax problem.

And I haven't picked it up yet this morning.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, I don't know.

I don't know, but that's the worst he'd have to do.

But anyway, somebody was working on it over the weekend to get him off the hook on that, and I haven't picked it up yet this morning as to what happened.

Yeah.

Well, it's good that he's willing to try to play for me.

Yeah.

Well, I guess he's got not much choice, does he?

In what sense?

It wouldn't come out.

It wouldn't come out one way or the other.

There's no way to get a handle on Mr. Hughes.

He's got to be at least reasonable, isn't there?

Does anybody know him?

Talk to him.

Which Mr. Hughes?

Sam Hughes.

Oh, Sam Hughes?

He's thinking he can always kick us on this.

Of course, he's been hurt, too.

I don't know how to get at him.

I've given that a little thought in the past.

I guess there's nobody around here that knows him.

Really well.

Right.

No, not really.

Not really.

So much for that.

But he can't put it out because of the given tax claim.

About the given tax, is he supposed to pay it the day that he gives it?

No, no.

No, it doesn't do until, you know, next fall or something.

So he's going to report it then?

Why doesn't he just say that?

Well, one of the reasons these guys give any cash sub rosa is to avoid that problem.

But in this case, he says, well, sure, but he's smoked out now.

Now he's got to pay the tax.

I would say that's an easy cost.

I'd rather do that.

Maybe they don't give the tax.

Yes, that's a good point.

Why did you give it?

Well, you didn't give it.

Anyway, that's what's slow.

One of the problems, of course, he's got is that I refuse, and of course I will not change on this, to see any errors before the election.

And I refuse to call any errors before the election.

I used to do it with 16.

Everybody thinks because he did it before, he should do it now.

I can't do it now.

I mean, it's just, I don't know.

I don't know.

He's doing all right without that.

I don't know.

He's getting big, substantial guests.

I don't know what to do with him.

He said, you know, yes, something turns up when I get her.

I said, he got a call from the president of Jesus Christ.

He looked at it and said, it's all English.

Oh, yeah.

I don't know.

It seemed to be a strange sort of thing.

I don't know what the Christ guy was doing.

I don't know him.

I don't either.

Mitchell said he was very bright.

He was very catapulted.

But I don't know where he held this guy.

I think he came with that sort of thing.

You know, there's just a lot of money flying around this town.

He called a guy at the post office who is in the financial end and had this guy call one of the banks and arrange a loan for a third party.

He used to work with him.

Right.

Well, he should have been fired.

I think so.

I think Evans handled it beautifully.

Nelson, we cannot use any contacts when I've got the national committee.

The government, that's what Guy Kehrsen said was about.

We took him on that.

But God damn, how does a nice guy like this?

I don't remember, but I may have done it.

Have you ever had it?

No.

Never heard of me before, matter of fact.

I just...

Thank God we know what the bargain scheme sounds like.

Yeah.

Evidence is no witness.

Jesus, I don't understand.

I never understand the theory.

I just don't understand what the Christ would be.

No, they can't get away with it.

It's sort of a free lunch atmosphere, you know.

And this money comes floating in over the transom, and that's just great.

If you don't handle the end of this thing that way, John, how else can you handle it?

Well, he may be, he very well may be able to justify the thing on the basis of $4,000, $6,000 gifts or something of that kind.

I don't know.

Oh, yeah.

He's a bad man.

Well, it's a matter of time.

I think he brought on a hundred girls.

Yeah.

I have the right question.

Well, I don't.

He's probably great enough that he can figure his way into this one way or the other.

And when he's, you know, so I'm a savior over here.

I'm going to have to get over to see Connelly.

I see I'm going to have to get over there a few minutes after that.

So it's probably what this tells me.

I'm on my way.

Yeah, I am.

It's 1.30.

Thank you.