Nixon, Flanigan & Bull on International Economic Policy and 1972 Election

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Thank you.

The council.

Yeah.

Suggested that maybe the 14 members are a little big, and that if we met at all beyond you and Henry and George Schultz and me, that a smaller group, maybe Andy Stein and

would be the right size.

And there's three things, it seems to me, that you might want to hear.

Apparently, they're not essential, depending on how you feel and whether it's a good idea to meet at this time.

One, Peters' report, including the trade business and break-down.

Two, Everly, who spent an hour with Tanaka.

And the third thing is that we're going to come to the crunch with the European community somewhere over the next eight months.

We can come to it any time we want.

They're being just as transparent as they can be about giving us the information that's necessary for us to say, look, if you're going to get together with Sweden and Austria and Switzerland, you owe us something.

And they're denying they owe us anything.

They won't give us the information.

We have these series of meetings.

We can come to the crunch whenever we want to.

My firm guess is that we wouldn't want to come to the crunch now.

But to the extent that you want to

consider the problems of a confrontation with Europe on economic matters.

We can review that.

And let me suggest that what I would rather, what I would like to do would be to take that as a sub-agent.

On the European side?

And we can get into it.

On the other two, I would rather not put it in that big a forum for the reason that

We want to see what, frankly, I don't want to get anything into the State Department hierarchy on the deal with the Russians.

The Japanese, I just can't tell Louie or whatever he has to say because I want to do something with him when he gets over here.

But the European thing has to be something where we're going to have to do a whole lot of things on his side.

We have to see what's left of Peterson.

We can talk to him and to Everly when they return.

But I just think that other than you and so on, you know what I mean?

Right.

Well, both of them are essentially political.

So the Japanese one has a lot of economic... Yeah, that's right.

But you see, I have to agree with him.

I...

I said we have...

In fact, we've got to keep Peterson talking.

I'm talking too much.

I just don't want to...

He'll naturally go ahead and fill in the statement.

But I just don't want to have a meeting where we're all sitting there and somebody gets franchised to go running around saying, well, we're going to do this and that with the Russians.

Because whatever we do with the Russians, we've got to do with nobody else in order to get the credit for it.

Whatever we do with the Japanese actually has to be done in Hawaii in order to get the credit for it.

Now, if you ever sit in front of that thing now, I have no problem with that.

If you ever run out of troops to stay, it'll never get to stay here.

They'll leave it all for the place, and then it'll go.

So I think we ought to just do it that way.

If you're a game, then I think it should be, frankly, a basis for a game of your smaller group.

All right.

But I do some, I have some good paperwork down there.

I think it's not a lot of money.

It is insoluble because they're taking our Atlantic system kind of for granted.

And whenever it comes up to a real hard question of whether they decide something that strengthens that or strengthens the community, they're making a decision on every occasion on behalf of the community.

Sure.

And somehow we've got to get them to understand that if they do it, not only are we going to get sore, but Congress is going to get sore.

Absolutely.

That's the subject I referred to here for a long time.

And to that point, I wouldn't let it be.

Again, I've been asking various people to work on this.

Whatever they do, it should be done on a confidential basis.

There's always a study paper in the rest so that we don't

Have it all fly around the press and the European press and the rest of the race and the elements that we're going to colonize.

And that's our, you know, that's our enemy fights we don't have to at this point.

I'm kind of concerned that unless Tamaka's playing a very smart game and Henry's people can figure that out, I'm concerned that they're not going to have anything big enough, hard enough, for you to really involve yourself in it.

We asked Henry's people though to go over there and tell them.

Yeah, well, we really wanted to go, but I guess they were very

though not quite as tough as the papers would have made it out.

Well, unless they do have something, we just won't talk about it.

We'll just be yanking around.

But we must get a bill done for it and then let it out about something of that sort.

No, I think nobody is expecting that to come out of the way.

On the other major area, which is monetary, George is setting up a small group and is doing it with, I think, very great

very great finance as usual and uh if we're going to do anything when the inf is here he's going to do anything what is it end of september 21st excuse me every two years out every three yeah in a way it's too many but then we'll have all of those foreign

Something that is soothing at the time, rather than something that is starting to grow up.

George wants that.

Right.

But there's not a position now.

We all know there's just a lot of potential crises hanging around, and we just want to cool them off.

They are so happy that we are being positive.

And we couldn't look as good now if we hadn't been tough before.

I think it's fair to say that the position has taken a hustle.

All of a sudden, they're pleased.

And we didn't do it, not as much as just quitting.

That's right.

That is important, though, to get that thing positioned so that if I say anything, I have something prepared that I can say that's right.

Well, the thought was, the original thought was that you wouldn't be involved to any extent.

I wouldn't.

But if we had a position that was forthcoming,

And these people are all just dying for a little American leadership.

At the last minute, we ought to rethink whether it might not be a good thing to posture you as a world leader.

Oh, yes, yes.

Why don't you do this?

You talk to George, or just say, look here, we can't.

No, but that's all we do is vote.

It's going to help the election.

Absolutely.

That's the point.

Absolutely.

And if it does put us in a world leadership position again, I will rip out the very answer.

The very answer.

Maybe the public doesn't understand it, but the governor says, I don't know anything about economics.

I guess I'll have to study it someday.

Now he's proving it.

He doesn't know anything about the world area, so you take that position as the

leader in the world of the monetary field, while they want to understand the substance, the leadership qualities, if it's good enough, if the response is good enough.

Okay, last thing, on the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, we put in a bill for 45 minutes.

They came in with a two-year veto.

Then you told Captain you wanted 35, and before he got up there, Pastore had gone back and taken your initial position.

So we've gone through.

It's been left at your initial position.

But Curtis is going to be the champion.

And there's Tom Curtis.

Henry Lomas is going to be the president.

We got hold of the nominating board.

We got hold of the policy board.

And we're going to change that thing around, and they're going to get out of all public affairs.

Not just the ones we don't like.

They're going to get out of all of them.

Unless the Ford Foundation goes ahead.

The Ford Foundation has to pay for it.

And then they have to ship it around by the mail.

We're not even going to let them use the distribution system for anything other than education and cultural, period.

That's what it should be.

But it's supposed to be.

But that'll happen.

One of these things, you're going to have to have another time to cut it.

So we didn't cut the budget for it.

I think we got where we wanted to be.

That's great.

I wanted to tell you, in the case here, in both your case and Henry's case, and Stein's as well, of course, we're going to make

all of the political stuff because there's just no use in borrowing the trouble that is

You can always ask your questions.

You can make speeches about this or that or the other thing.

But in terms of basically partisan kind of things or stuff that is pure politics, nothing is advertised.

Where, uh, you know, you don't live along with me because people thought they had to advertise the fact that you were raising money for Jews or things like that.

And, uh,

And so he goes to these dinners, he doesn't necessarily get right even with dinner, he's doing it in a certain way, but we'll do it.

Early on, he is in a slightly different position, slightly different, given the fact that he's so involved in virtually every staff, congressional fighting and all that.

And I don't know what is going to happen there.

He will probably

He is probably expected to be a little more inquisitive.

The international field, particularly, has to be kept somewhat bipartisan.

Larry can go around and raise a hell of a lot of defense things, and Rogers can defend our policies and so forth.

But in terms of just blatant political partisan activity, the international field does tend to rule you out.

So if you're not in political meetings, that's the reason.

That's the reason I keep you standing up.

And, frankly, Stein,

Of course, Steiner's side is right, too.

He's a close misattended tour.

He's had times where he went out on the bat and fired, and he shouldn't be.

He could go out and eat the press.

He couldn't affect that.

But in terms of going on and say, like, answering the speech of a government, he shouldn't do that.

That's not Steiner's job, you know, because he also can't be mean enough.

He can't be irresponsible enough.

Right.

If you answer an irresponsible speech with an irresponsible speech, you know.

And so I think it's going to be harder to do it, but I think you've got to realize that you've got to be.

People in that capacity, we just don't want to give them a target that is necessarily too open.

I understand.

That's why I'm sharing the international meeting.

I just want to gesture the same.

Don't miss it, because it's fun.

The gesture will be, as I said, you can go on the program and just make an answer.

Although we don't need much to do that yet.

That's the reason we're having a really good meeting.

But all of you, I guess they've got to let it, they've got to have you all participate.

I think when the White House staff is agreeing, I'm just speaking to your outsider contacts.

They have to be on a very personal basis, but not on a basis that becomes public.

They have to be together.

We can get up and make a speech on that.

I can get up and make a speech on international economic affairs and talk about what their program will do to jobs, what it will do to exports.

That's perfectly all right.

That's right.

Provided it's strictly on the issue.

Right.

No problem at all.

Yeah, that's good.

You can do that.

And also privately.

I would stay out, you know, because I would stay totally out of any money raising.

I just don't do it.

It's just, it's a question of, I'm not sure, but it just isn't worth it.

These businessmen should be fired up.

They're hard to get.

I just stay out of it.

Because the people who get into it, their side gets into it.

history and the money raising side, you see he's never done any actually.

But what has happened is that that's over.

They make a speech and then they go ahead and knock him over for $100,000.

I thought it was kind of nice.

They had it at the university, but they only came in there about two years ago, and now we use that for a second.

Not until a few years ago.

Very, very liberal on that subject.

Very liberal.

I thought that was kind of a nice touch.

How about

Briefings of groups who, briefing them on the issues.

No problem.

Like, uh, Kendall's business group.

No, no problem.

As long as your briefing's on the issues.

Perfect.

No problem.

Good.

But then don't have to knock them over for money right afterwards.

No, these are, we want you to come.

Briefing?

No, no, no.

That's your job.

Just like it's Rogers' job.

You, uh, do what Rogers does.

Exactly.

That's what you are.

You and Stuyvesant.

You should agree.

Your business life and all the rest.

You and Christopher Stuyvesant.

As a matter of fact, I won't let her into any funerals here.

The only place where he goes and go a little bit further, will go further, is at E. Because we don't have anybody here who could otherwise do it.

Uh, he does do some breathing withdrawal, and he really shakes his skull out of it a little hard.

And, frankly, if we got, your field is not that, not that much oxygen, but there you, you could do it.

And, of course, Henry does his, but Henry's not on the record.

Well, they are.

Mr. President, did, did the, did the Blake family come from Whittier, and were they friends with this fellow who was

Blake?

Yeah, sure.

His father was... Let me read this.

His father was a private politician.

He was Sergeant Schreiber's DCM for a while.

Oh, sure.

He's a great Schreiber man.

Well, I hear that both ways from his friends around here.

He was an ambassador in Africa.

He is now.

Huh?

He is again.

Where the hell is he?

We still have him as an ambassador?

Yeah.

But his friends...

He was a harem on that, too.

Worked for him in the harem.

I worked with Stevenson at the U.N. His friends tell me that he was a Republican all through those years in the department.

His mother's name was Sarah Blake, and she was a very lonely woman.

And Frank Blake was his father, who was very, very close to her, married and all that much.

And a very nice family.

He's a very nice guy.

What do you think politically on the other side?

I mean, wouldn't you get some impression he wasn't?

Well, I'd kind of like to get a review of what, uh, what, uh, Sergeant Scharger was saying when he was your ambassador in Paris.

I mean, if we had a list of a few of the things he said, uh, but maybe Watson's a better guy to do that just to have a review.

Ah, I think so.

I don't, I don't think Blake would be, uh, going on the list now.

He's, he's sort of gone on the set.

I know, I mean, it's hard.

He's been with us for so long.

He's gone on the set.

Right.

No.

But Bill Rogers knows him awfully well, because we were running, we offered him, you know, the investment, and he went.

I recall.

And he acted like such a prick, and laid down conditions that Bill might have just called and said, we weren't going to do it.

He was really distressed.

And then Bill gave him the ax, and he said, Pastor, because Bill, well, this is his nature to be, you know, he's like so much, he's very tough, he has to be.

Why don't you just have a talk with him?

Say, look, what's your judgment of this fall?

Bill's a man.

You can see what we're talking about.

I said there's nobody that knows him better than Bill does.

We don't ask Bill to get into it, but Bill, I'm sure.

Your ambassador has filed a speech with the State Department at home.

They're all over the episode.

Be fun to see what that guy has to say.

About Vietnam.

Just get him on the record.

Bill is the guy that wouldn't have anything on him if it was.

But he's no good.

He's no good.

I do not estimate him as high as we know him.

Some of them can be crowded.

They ought to be crowded and so forth.

But basically, he is a, he is a, he has more than his share of really, he's certainly lived in some unchallenged

Terribly, terribly, uh, conceited.

Okay.

Terribly conceited.

He just, uh, had an increase of momentum.

You really know.

Dole did it right.

He had the one essential qualification.

He was willing to run.

Dan Dole.

Freddie, why don't you give Bill, uh, what was the, uh, I was going to call.

Sorry.

I just think we were talking in that, uh,

All right.

Yes, sir.

Thank you.

Nixon, Flanigan & Bull on International Economic Policy and 1972 Election

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on August 7, 1972

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