Conversation 771-007

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Because they're afraid that the state will find that he's an enemy.

And because he already had a lecture from Fiskel, that the basic problem should be settled.

Incidentally, there's no problem on that, is there?

I mean, you're right to turn down those requests because I don't have a fight with the U.S. or the Russians at this time.

We must stay out of it until after the election.

We need massive pressure.

But another thing that he told me is he said Mike Beltman called him this morning on behalf of McGovern.

the government wanted to go to the funeral in Israel.

And...

I'm not surprised.

But he wanted me to know that the Israeli government turned him down.

Good for him.

And Drapeen said, given what you have said about me, why don't you apply directly in Jerusalem?

So they applied directly in Jerusalem and got him down in Jerusalem.

Oh, he told them that, given what you said about me?

And if I didn't, he knows they've turned down.

Definitely.

Of course, that would be a grandstand play.

Or a candidate for office to go there.

Hell, if I were worse than you, you'd be just right to an extent, you know, to represent me to all the people, but bullshit.

They can't.

They look like pure politics.

Well, they won't let them come.

Well, they should tell you to go.

Well, with regard to the Mideast thing, well, I think, let it ride, and you think we're in the right position.

I think that I put this one down, don't I?

And I told him very strongly again that there should be no attacks.

He said he'd give me an assurance tomorrow he'd want to check in his room.

No attacks.

It may take a camp hour or so, but it's going to hit the turnoff.

Well, a camp, one can live with, but if they die, they say, oh, well, they could do this.

Well, they've got the capability.

Sure.

They could be that.

I mean...

Well, they wouldn't take Lebanon.

They might take Beirut and arrest all the leaders of the guerrilla movement.

Why is Lebanon harboring some species?

I saw where McGovern said we are.

and not establish relations with the EU.

George Shultz was in this evening.

He's going to come to see you.

He wants to give a talk following yours at the IMF.

I mean, that's standard, but he wants to lay out a concrete program.

Connolly is strongly in favor of this.

And I'm rather in favor of it, too, because we've gone out.

This would be the second meeting without a program on our side.

And you could introduce it by saying, George Booth will deliver our program in great detail, and I commend it to you and its attention.

You're for it?

I'm for it.

I know Russia is against it again, but that's not why I'm for it.

I think he's unfortunately going through one of these.

Well, he doesn't have any experts over there, so it's a goddamn thing.

Well, what he said this morning was exchange markets, but...

I think it would be...

except for you, to have a precise economic international program.

And Connolly, according to those who are strong supporters.

Oh, we're only having trouble today.

We're having trouble now.

We're having trouble.

The state had obviously planted a telegram for NATO to send back that our European allies are concerned about the trip, which cannot be true, because we talked to the British French instruments ahead of time without telling the state, and they knew all about it, so it couldn't be true.

And now Russia wants to send out assurances that I won't discuss MPFR, the European Security Conference, but if we get that assurance, we can make the announcement of the date.

In October.

They will be informed.

We're not going to make any.

I couldn't stop on the way back, but I... Jesus Christ, that does look like a...

It does look like a change.

Not in a million years would they protest.

We had the British.

We had Kirk Trent here.

We went through the whole camp.

Of course, what is the situation?

Who do we have?

It's Kennedy.

I'll tell you, we're never going to get to that situation again.

You've got seven more weeks of this.

I was going to tell you.

You have a good idea, though.

The little animal would like to be an ambassador.

Yes.

And he should be.

I agree.

And I think Bangkok would be a damn good place for him.

I would accept.

Because it's where he wants to go.

I would accept.

After all, his wife is lovely.

He loves the ties.

He loves Asia.

I would accept.

And I think having military men in good places that we can count on, you know, that he'll know the way he got his job, and he'll be loyal to us, and he'll take the state of America.

I think it's good.

Can't do it for the election.

I never cared for that ambassador there, you know.

That's good, buddy.

But he isn't ready anyway.

But I want you to, sir, I want you to tell him in private, sir, a few times, a few times, the day after the election, I am going to say, the day after the election, Henry, we will move on this fall, and we don't give a shit what our state says, and I believe you we don't care.

Doesn't that sound good to you?

I want you to imagine some other military people who've got these jobs.

I told Bob a minute ago, I had reached a point that I thought that I maybe could deliver his answers in another term, because he was so good to not six weeks, but it's not good.

The difficulty is, first of all, at this point, you might go with him for that, but the real problem there is that he won't clean up the State Department.

I want somebody to clean up the State Department.

State Department, and I haven't seen any candidate check for possible such a concept.

I'm sure he would.

I know most of them.

Yeah, but Conley would have, my operation would have to be dismantled.

That couldn't possibly coexist.

I mean, that would mean so much.

Yeah, and that's what I, I mean, that's one possible

Well, no question.

No question.

That's all it shows to me.

you know it's very hard to find people that are loyal and bright saying I'm supposed to come home and I said they have good hearts and lame brains liberals they have good brains and bad hearts true really vicious bastards and he says that the

Jay Lovestone, who's fighting in Missouri, really thinks McGovern is an evil man.

He says he's sort of a dedicated evil man.

That's what I've come to.

You just feel that.

Lovestone, as you know, and he thinks, Henry, that he is being banished by left-wing money outside the country.

He thinks, don't put it past the Russians.

And I don't either.

I wouldn't.

You know, the communists could play both games here.

That's what I think.

No, I can't let him send it because we can't keep it.

But I may say nothing to that effect.

No, we will follow our judicial policy that nothing involving Europe will be agreed to without consultation.

Without keeping full briefings?

Full briefings and through a full consultation.

Nothing affecting Europe.

As was the case in the President's trip.

Because he doesn't realize yet that I'm going to raise the trade issue.

What the hell do you think I'm going to raise?

What he'd like to stick me with is Vietnam.

I just think it's going to...

If we can have... You can have a trade thing.

we can have trade, maritime... Now, on the European security and the other thing, how do we position that so that there we can say Russia is facing an extent by having, how do we have a service?

Well, at the European security conference, this is how it turns out.

They had proposed November 22nd for the preparatory meeting.

We would accept that, except that they have refused to accept the MPFR meeting.

So,

I could come back and say they have now agreed to set a date for the SBFR meeting.

Would you tell that to Rogers?

Yeah, but he could handle it as diplomatic channels from then on.

That doesn't get the date set yet.

That just means now I think we should do it so that you get the credit for it.

Sure.

So that they can't leak it as a result of their masterful diplomacy.

They've got this deadline broken.

At this stage, I don't want to get the credit for it.

Then we can tell the state, and I will follow it on from there.

I don't have to do anything then.

It will take two weeks.

We don't think we can get a letter from Gresham on this respect to me.

Sure.

How about a personal message?

A personal message from Gresham to me, and I'll just pass it on.

Sure.

Then we wrote it at our level.

Well, that's what I mean.

Why don't we have it done that way, a personal message?

it doesn't have to be true is it we have a good basis for it beam was in there he was turned down I'm over there I'm not inventing anything new I'm having freshness something that all NATO allies have already been informed of all I'm asking him on your behalf is whether he will accept something that all the allies know about that

They have refused when Dean came in.

So when they say, yes, we are only at the point which every ally already, if they had accepted it three weeks ago, this wouldn't have been necessary.

That, in turn, will get the European Security Conference off the ground.

So we get two for one.

But just set it up so that there is a way that I've got a piece of paper I can publish.

Have you taken over and said, here's a message

But I'd like it so that you get embedded for it.

I don't have to.

You bring the piece of paper back, that's my point.

And then say, right after we talk, give us this piece of paper.

Fair enough.

Yeah, that's fine.

You know, one thing that I think you've got to realize

I don't care how the election comes out in terms of the margin, if you want to vote, we are going to clean the government and House, and State, and the Senate, and the whole bunch.

Now, there isn't going to be any partying around.

We're not going to accept anything to do with these people and the screws.

And I think, Mr. President, you ought to organize your administration so that you can be physically comfortable.

It isn't right that...

I mean, the decision makers.

And what is this?

Exactly.

And whatever I stand for, he stands against.

The dissension, if the dissension is about a concrete issue where somebody says let's do this and somebody says let's do that, then you can rule.

But right now, seven weeks before, eight weeks before the election, it doesn't matter.

The public positions of everybody are fixed.

He can't do much for himself because it doesn't make any difference.

He's running for re-election.

You are.

I'm not running for re-election either.

So that...

That should be the only way to face it.

Look at that poor Rusk down there in Georgia.

Now when Rogers leaves this government, Rogers can go any place he wants in this country because whatever happened, the problem succeeded.

That's right.

You see, he has been part of the winning show.

It doesn't make any difference whether he did it or not then.

And he was an infinitely worse secretary of state than Rusk.

Oh!

We don't have that.

That's what I'm expecting from your point.

What's your point?

You just got to understand.

It's been interesting that Hollywood Party was really an unbelievable public relationship, sir.

I was at a party, at a huge party, the other day on Saturday night, where the people were using, having been at your party, you know, and they were gone.

Got it.

Great.

We have to do them, but just once.