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Conversation 774-003

TapeTape 774StartMonday, September 11, 1972 at 9:40 AMEndMonday, September 11, 1972 at 9:59 AMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob");  White House operator;  [Unknown person(s)];  Bull, Stephen B.Recording deviceOval Office
AudioNARA Description

On September 11, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, White House operator, unknown person(s), and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:40 am to 9:59 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 774-003 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 774-3

Date: September 11, 1972
Time: 9:40 am - 9:59 am
Location: Oval Office

The President met with H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman.

        The President’s schedule
            -Camp David

An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 9:40 am.

        Refreshments

The unknown person left an unknown time before 9:59 am.

The President talked with the White House operator at an unknown time beteween 9:40 am and
9:59 am.

[Conversation No. 774-3A]

       Telephone call to Chris Schenkel
           -American Broadcasting Company [ABC] sports
           -Munich, Germany

[End of telephone conversation]

       1972 Olympic Games in Munich
            -US – Soviet Union basketball game
            -Boxing

                          (rev. Oct-06)

-Diving
-Haldeman’s view
-Wrestling
-Rifle event
-US and Soviet Union basketball game
     -Controversy in last minute of game
     -Timing of last field goal
     -Fouling
     -Time calling
     -Comparison to other programs
     -Sports announcers view of controversy
         -Frank Gifford
         -Wilt Chamberlain
         -Coverage
         -Howard Cosell
-Boxing
     -Ray Seales
         -Bobby G. Seale
     -Black community
-American patriotism
     -National Anthem
     -Standing for American flag
         -American athletes
         -Shirley Povich
         -Howard K. Smith
     -Importance of national pride
         -Swimming event example
              -Life magazine
-Mark Spitz
     -Position
     -The President's attempted call
     -Possible visit to the White House
         -Henry C. Cashen, II
         -Charles W. Colson
         -Spitz’s coach
         -Donald Schollander
         -Spitz’s coach
-Miss America [Terry Anne Meeuwsen]
     -Haldeman’s view
     -Pageant

                                     (rev. Oct-06)

                   -Jews

       Watergate
           -Washington Post
           -Source
           -Martha (Beall) Mitchell
               -Guard's involvement
                   -Knowledge
               -Question of accuracy of story
           -Grand jury investigation of Watergate
               -Letter involved
               -Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI]
               -White House staff possible involvement
               -Grand jury indictment
           -White House public relations strategy
               -Clark MacGregor
                   -Ronald L. Ziegler
                   -Democrats' role
                   -White House involvement
                   -Policy line development
                         -John W. Dean III,
                         -Colson
                         -John D. Ehrlichman
               -Investigation
                   -Civil suit
                   -Congressional inquiry
                         -William Proxmire
                         -Edward M. Kennedy

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 2m 46s     ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

                                         (rev. Oct-06)

*****************************************************************

        Watergate story in Washington Post
            -Information from defendent
            -Dean's report
                 -Testimony before grand jury
            -James W. McCord, Jr.

Haldeman talked with an unknown person at an unknown time between 9:40 am and 9:59 am.

[Conversation No. 774-3B]

        Dean's report
            -Determination of source
                 -Alfred C. Baldwin

[End of telephone conversation]

        Watergate defendants
            -Baldwin
                -Mitchell
                     -Grand jury testimony
            -Central Intelligence Agency [CIA]

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 9:40 am.

        The President's schedule
            -Peter M. Flanigan
            -Meeting with Council on International Economic Policy [CIEP]

Bull left at an unknown time before 9:59 am.

        White House staff
            -The President’s view
               -Staff cuts
            -Domestic Council
                -Size
            -Henry A. Kissinger's staff
                -The President’s view

                                      (rev. Oct-06)

           -State Department
                -Frank C. Carlucci
                    -Possible position
                -Kissinger
                    -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
           -John C. Whitaker
                -National Park Service position
                -The President’s view
           -Motivation of staff members
                -Washington DC environment

      George S. McGovern’s allegation
          -News summary
          -Secret campaign funds
          -Cover-up
          -US – Soviet Union grain deal
              -Press involvement
                   -International Telephone and Telegraph Company [ITT] analogy
                   -Teapot Dome analogy
                   -Press reaction
                        -Washington Post, New York Times
                             -Earl L. Butz

       The President's schedule
           -Camp David
           -Republican National Committee meetings
           -Vacation time
           -Sequoia
           -Camp David

       Congressional committees
          -Investigations
          -Taxes
          -Lawrence F. O'Brien, Jr.
               -Ehrlichman
          -Robert D. (“Bobby”) Baker

*****************************************************************

                                        (rev. Oct-06)

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 1m 42s     ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2

*****************************************************************

        The President's trip to Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania
            -Ehrlichman

Bull entered at an unknown time after 9:40 am.

        The President’s schedule
            -Flanigan

Bull left at an unknown time before 9:59 am.

        The President's trip to Wilkes-Barre
            -Ehrlichman
            -Public relations
            -Color press stories
                 -Beer drinker [Frank Vivian]
                 -Wedding [Catherine Pickering and David Conte]
                 -Picnic [Jill Garrett]
                 -Presentation of check [Wilkes College]
            -Carlucci
                 -Call to Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger
                 -Press coverage
            -The President's previous inspection of devastated area
                 -Press reporting
                     -Milton J. Shapp
                           -McGovern
                           -George W. Romney

        Watergate investigation
            -Haldeman’s forthcoming conversation with Dean

                                       (rev. Oct-06)

Haldeman left at 9:59 am.
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Did you see that?
Absolutely incredible.
We get screwed on a lot of things.
Boxing and diving, very badly screwed on.
And also wrestling.
And also after a guy had to take that right hit with his asthma medicine out of the rifle.
But the basketball then tops the ball.
What happened to you then?
I didn't have any idea that they were, they are in third division.
Or a timer, or a judge or something.
Well, that would be, I would have figured.
Well, God.
But hell, they went back and re-rented stuff, and there's just no way that what they say happened in,
Only one minute could have happened in one minute.
It had to have taken three minutes.
Therefore, the game has to have been over.
Then you had all kinds of other things.
Even when they gave the Russians three extra seconds.
I meant three seconds, not three minutes.
When they gave the Russians three extra seconds, they followed two of our guys.
The Russian guy going in for the basket knocked two guys to the ground.
I mean, as the coach said, two men don't just fall flat on the ground.
All guys did that.
All guys did that.
They all called here.
Even more so.
Absolutely.
Much more so.
And it was a complete fiasco.
On the minute, probably.
It was, he'd sit there watching me, he'd just get mad as hell, no, the other way.
Ross?
Yeah, Shanky, I don't even remember.
Shanko, whoever was describing it, I forget who it was.
It wasn't Shanko, it was somebody else doing it, I think.
Yeah, it was Gifford and Will Chamberlain, I guess.
But, uh,
game in the United States instead of in Germany?
Frank Everett.
Frank Everett was in our club.
Hard or so.
I saw Bobby Steele win.
I mean, I mean, Little Ray.
Ray Steele.
Yeah, Little Ray.
Sugar Ray Steele.
Sugar Ray.
That was what he was hard at.
Yeah, it did hand out to his heart.
Virgin Man Black did, I guess.
I don't understand what he did.
Well, did he on the anthem?
I didn't see the end.
I saw a fight.
I saw a review of the 400 meters on that, some of those fights.
Blacks behaving that way.
There's been a lot of good stuff, man.
They probably, probably the black attention, I'm sure, that they all were paying for behavior.
Well, that's, you know, they're debating now.
There's a high hand on the part of the Olympic officials.
Bullshit.
That they weren't showing disrespect.
Bullshit.
I'm not talking, our committee showed a, even Shirley Pogich's morning service.
of the committee, by God, the international committee, drew them out.
Goddamn, those Americans aren't going to stand up for the flag.
It was the UN after.
No, sir.
Thank you.
And then they're debating the nationalists in the Olympics.
But the debate is coming down very much in favor of the point that the nationalism is good, that it's a national pride and patriotism.
And it's how those are moving moments.
sensational picture in life of the little girl that won the big swimming event, beat the Australian.
She was there standing there, and the Australian here in this chair looking, you know, very serious.
And our girl just teared running down her face.
Cut.
Yeah.
Spitz, I'm trying to get a reading on it.
Well, I got a call.
Well, I don't, yeah.
I didn't know Chuck was racist.
You shouldn't yet.
No, he is, because he wrote his own letter, 11 November.
He what?
Chuck wrote a note on Cassius' mammogram, and all those conclusions.
Say, don't say anything, he's coming to the White House.
But what is the situation?
Well, what I want to see is,
His hero is not Schillinger.
Well, for Christ's sake, my gosh.
That's exactly the point.
Schillinger is our committee.
His coach, Javor, has said, call him.
You saw that?
I didn't see that.
Well, that's it.
That's the real reason I called him.
Javor says he's smart.
Well, he could be.
Oh, I think he is.
But I just want to be sure for Schillinger.
I don't know.
He is a little strange.
Yeah.
He's, uh...
She's a good Miss American too.
She's a good Miss American.
She's a good Miss American too.
She's a good Miss American too.
She's a good Miss American too.
She's a good Miss American too.
Do you think they've worked him over?
They seem to come out that they're going to hold something back.
It looks like we must know now who the leak is in that bucket.
I would find out.
We have to know.
The post story gives us the info.
It says he's the holy identity.
It says he was the, what is my convention?
Guy.
Guy.
I don't think that's right.
But I think, I don't know, ask.
Maybe, or they may have used him to deliver some of them.
I'll send it over to someone.
I read the article.
So he did not.
He delivered none of them personally.
He got them delivered to a car.
I don't think he may have known who it was going to.
In other words, it may have been.
Why is it the grand jury doesn't have it?
They would be calling in whoever it is.
Apparently, well, they didn't have it.
He called in for the rancher .
He said .
And nobody in the violence has been called for in the ranch area.
And nobody's going to get through, whether they .
I'll get it run down.
I'm asking for it.
the whole process of the ..
I used to still have it all.
A lot of them come out of it now, except that it's good to cut the .. Cut the damn story and then go with ..
So yeah, of course, we have nothing to do with ..
They're trying ..
They're trying to get the grand jury .. That's it.
Yeah, what?
Yes.
If you don't say it the same way he has, because there will be no White House involvement.
You don't say it.
We've said all along there's no White House involvement.
Well, the way I would do this is take the offensive and call on the Democrats and the Republicans.
You know what I mean?
There we are.
They've been charging them.
Oh, this is me.
We're glad this is over and so forth and so on.
There's no White House involvement.
We've said it.
We've told it to people and we've said it.
I just kind of think I'm getting the line.
We don't, the intention was not to go too far on the offensive.
Well, because you're still pushing against the civil suit and the stuff the
in public when Procter & Kennedy sold him.
Who was talking?
I don't know.
There's no point in anticipating.
I'll find out.
I guess it was from reading the story, because he listened to the phone.
He talked to the grand jury.
He delivered such cordial.
Yes, it was.
has a deep cognitive identity design.
Who is it?
Baldwin?
I see.
I see.
Okay.
No, he's the, Baldwin's one of the five.
He's the, is he here?
Yeah.
Well, he did work for Mark with that, so that's part of history.
He was assigned to Mark.
But he knows nothing, and everything he does know has been told to the grand jury.
In fact, whatever he's given the Democrats can't go beyond that he doesn't know anymore.
He may have made up something.
Why are they talking?
That's just Dean's message.
I will not.
He must love fire.
He's the kooky guy.
He's the other CIA guy.
No, that's not right either.
and see how you can be here.
If I have to, you know, five minutes or ten seconds.
Sure.
Thank you.
Do you really see what all it is I'm saying?
I really mean, God, you've got the son of a bitch right down to the core.
And incidentally, there can be no, you're right about the domestic counsel.
It's much too large, much too large.
There are too many people, too many people looking at this, looking at that, looking at everything else.
You know, I'm just making paperwork for other people.
The same is true of Henry Stein, way over Stein, way too.
is that we're thinking of these as simply being the top guys or just being the stablers and just kind of getting their approach.
You know, if you've got the agency, you just have to follow us to pick it up.
That's exactly it.
That's really going to be his pleasure.
Carlos, you want to go back to state?
Henry's advice on people is very bad.
He's taken in by intellectual brilliance.
And also what's the thing to do in the establishment.
Oh, sure.
He's a very confident, follow-through kind of guy, but not particularly creative.
He's great out there.
He loves the park.
We don't have to put these people at all.
A lot of these people are going to come back.
Sure.
Just the difference between our crowd and the other people and the others.
Our people want to get home.
A lot of people can afford to have college.
And would rather they don't like Washington for the sake of Washington.
They don't like government for the sake of Washington.
They really don't.
There's a hell of a difference.
The, uh, the power, the only thing that the MacGyver client is yacking about, I mean, is what I saw.
It's nothing much there.
It's pretty little things.
Well, he had a big blast on grain dealing.
You know, they were supposed to really bust things up and make a scandal since IT&T and Teapot Dome and all that stuff.
And then just the press didn't buy it, which is kind of interesting.
A few of them gave a little ride.
must defend this president.
I reached out and I said, yeah, Christ, they should never defend the tank, tank, tank, tank, tank, tank.
No, let's really, let's really hit the tank.
The thing, you know, what if it's lying out and made that believe?
Yeah.
I'll be pushing, shaking their damn heads and farting around with them.
It'll take an hour and a half to two hours.
No, 300.
50, 100, 150.
All the hangers on.
You got to fill up one seat for dinner and then come back.
It's a quiet Tuesday night.
I don't think you were going to chant David.
No?
Very good.
What do you think?
You can talk better than David.
And I'll be there.
Tuesday afternoon.
What is the game plan in terms of what we do?
Like I say, it's worked out.
It's true.
I will respond.
We've got to review it now.
Yes.
And deal with these things.
You see these committees, and I want to show you how important it is to win the Congress.
To win the Congress, you need to control those committees.
Investigate.
Anyone know we can rush out and investigate some of that and have some, you know, stir up some stuff?
We could, yes, but we haven't done any stuff.
I bet you competent people wouldn't be anybody that could take and stir up that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, all right.
Oh, yes.
I think it's because they've got them.
The Jews, the evangelicals, and I heard the Jews are coming.
I don't know if you can do it.
No, it's part of John's reason.
We had had an open and present all day.
We lay out there.
We lay out there.
He had it.
The story of the guy with the champagne beer, the story of the Italian wedding, the little black girl with her, the little black lady with her picnic.
Those three came through, and all the stories came through, and the wedding thing was just spectacular on the radio.
the check to the college.
And this morning, saying, the coverage up there is just very well expected.
It's unbelievable.
He's just ecstatic that he says, now we've been hammering away.
This is the breakthrough.
Now we can really capitalize on all this stuff.
And interestingly enough, which surprised me, the press
pretty generally played as Nixon returns to the devastated area in Elk Grove.
In other words, where I thought we weren't getting any credit for that first trip at all.
But his play is a return.
And Schaaf has helped, I think, because he's blasted you for coming in without notifying the governor.
You went in and did something about it.
He screwed around, and he's come out looking like a pretty cheap political candidate, trying to play his things, I think.
Your point is, in making a schedule, the water getting in is this weak.
I've got to ask John.
← 774-002774-004 →