Nixon & Haig on Vietnam War and Henry Kissinger

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We've got one real major decision problem, and that has to do with negotiating with you on the proposition that it will be taken tomorrow.

It worked out everything.

and would make major changes in his direction.

But when you get down to this National Committee for Reconciliation, which is the electoral committee, they're still very much hung up on the composition of it and the way the composition is described.

We have taken, and it's really the only new thing in our proposal, and agreed to a three-element composition.

against the NLF, a third force, and the GVN.

Phew, once that's fuzzed up to the degree that if we fuzz it up, we've got nothing different than we offered in January.

And I think we'll be damn vulnerable for a public tabling of the Northeastern region proposal, and we'll put us in a disingenuous position.

Now, Henry's convinced, and I share this,

The North is not going to accept the proposal anyway.

And in any event, we've got a good public presentation, if that's the way it has to go, which will further reinforce your forthcoming position.

So it's really a moot question.

Now, it would be a very outside chance that the North would accept this proposal.

It's a very outside .

We'd have an unhappy few, but the whole breakthrough would be such that, hell, he couldn't take us on on that very minor issue.

And he himself, in reality, can control the thing very effectively.

So on this single occasion, and I think Henry's right, I think we've got to override few and take this thing.

The stakes are too big now at this point.

The reporter forthcoming was the guy we watered down in the proposal.

He's essentially a media person.

One thing that has flashed in last night is a request that we authorize him to go ahead and do it.

And we'll tell you that there's a communication lag, and it's been one because of Henry's time in the state.

And we did send him on there.

It'll be a little question anyhow because they'll turn it down and then we're in good shape into seeing themselves by it.

This is the first time we've ever pulled one like this on here.

Yes, another one has got nothing to do with it.

I highly think so.

Way to pick up on that one.

We've seen a lot of things.

The problem is, at this present time, the situation is getting drastic.

We just realized how far we've come in terms of pushing.

American public schools and people give a shit here about us.

But our being four times as overpaid as my mom's, and I don't feel like he makes any sense at all about us.

He offered rather than...

I don't think people can get it.

There are a group of these way out left sons of bitches who don't get it yet.

They can make trouble in their control editorial lines and what have you.

The dynamite in that is the...

It's the... ...fragment of coal that you... Yep.

That's right.

That's what you said there.

Well, about that, it's not...

It's not really cool, but...

It's a good one, actually.

It's a good one.

Look, that's it.

It's dynamite.

See, if it gets out... ...it'll make any literal friends feel fine.

The government will be formulated based on the percentage of the vote, which has always been our position.

There's an effort to finesse their position.

And to get around this is a phony effort.

There's no question about that.

It's a failure.

Where I feel I'm quite likely to be very comfortable with it because I know I can control it.

But Henry, he should back him to the offensive.

My concern is not two, my concern is being a very strong domestic reaction to this country.

So I think it's a matter of slowly modifying his position.

I'm over two to one on this.

Oh.

That time has not passed.

I'm trying to encourage the wearer of the page and broke the whole pattern.

People will give it up on them.

They know they should.

I think there is.

This has to be the reason I think we should do this, not because of the American body politics, but because of the Chinese and the Soviets.

We can take the position with them now, honestly, because we've done something.

And we've got to keep those bastards alienated from Hanoi as they've been.

And see, Henry has told both of them.

We've all been taught how to do it.

They're being, remember when we went to China, we went to Russia.

We should look at that as well.

I guess it has that much to do with the Chinese and the Russians.

They may or may not have talked to the Nazis.

We'll hear what they have.

We'll get other reports they have.

We'll deal here with that.

I believe that's correct, sir, but I believe the thing that has changed the American attitude and that has enabled you to get this effective change is the fact that you did what you did in May and the Soviets and the Chinese really did nothing about it.

In other words, it was a proof that a strong action is the effective action.

And that's the kind of action that Americans should support.

Now, we've got to ensure that something doesn't happen on the part of the Chinese and the Soviets that would reverse the confidence of the American people that you've dominated those two in this exercise.

And that's why I think to maintain a good dialogue with the Chinese and the Soviets on this whole issue, that we've got to come in with something that is so new,

Yes, and there's a little bit.

We're all playing things.

We're miles apart, and we both, and I think they're under pressure for the same reason to do that.

Thank you.

I think they are.

We, the governor just had a, he's been let pants down on us.

We can't have anybody get into it.

Yeah, that would be blended with a whole range of things he's got settled with the Soviets that are really going to be helpful.

I don't know if he's got military tactics to use to target these groups.

We toughened that up to the point that they couldn't live with it.

So they just backed away.

But what he does have is the... How do you call it?

Your name is Jerry.

He has a conference session for November 22nd.

That's when he consulted with North Face this time.

It's all two of them, isn't it?

It's all on November 15th.

We've got the linkage between MDFR and CSE different times, but preliminary conference and final conference are set for both.

We have a lease agreement.

We've got about 90% of the trade package.

And a very good program for going on with next year's summit.

We had a very weird time.

This came from this guy, Victor Louise, or Louis, who is the Soviet spokesman.

Unofficial.

Writes out of the London Times, and he put this out yesterday.

It was an extreme overkill.

And so it triggered a lot of things.

And I've raised the next issue.

Henry feels that it's essential in order for you to get this.

The credit for all of this is that he has a press briefing on Saturday.

If we let it ride over the weekend, some of the stuff leaked from agriculture in terms of China, and I think some of the commerce people were looking on LendLeak.

Great.

Now, it couldn't have been held too much longer, anyhow, because it's in the official registry now.

These guys just had a tendency to go out and smell it.

We had to lend leases.

We had to come from Congress.

Of course, he would go see that Henry would settle his damn thing, and the credit would go to Henry and the White House and not the theaters, because he had done a hell of a lot of work.

I mean, testify the vote or discuss it with your... Well, now that you're talking about the president...

He killed the former president and my sister.

Well, I want you to know the problem, I suppose.

We've got a bad lot of peers in there.

That's what I suppose.

Roger's still trying to up the wall, huh?

He does, but he will.

Anyway, to a degree.

He will anyway.

I think we do have to brief this thing, or it's going to go out in a buckshot way.

There's been so much speculation.

Well, I don't agree with the brief, though.

I don't agree with the brief.

He would have briefed if he had a hearing to solve that.

No, Jim.

Those things will be announced in October.

I think he would brief the General.

We don't want to deal with the hearing.

No, no.

I think trade.

And there, too, we

got meetings laid on for here in Washington, which will culminate these things.

And there's a communique that's scheduled to go out today going to the communique.

Yeah.

And that's, uh, it's not a final character.

It's progress.

Major progress, is what it indicates.

And if it was still in that, that's essentially what it would be doing.

Yeah.

Well...

I think on this one, it would be dangerous not to have the briefing, because it's important for you that this thing is a White House presidential.

Right.

And the Russians, I think, is all right, because we don't have any major... Like the...

Here again, here he comes.

Thank you, sir.

Just to discuss what it was, uh, it was done in, uh, the discussions were held on the subject, uh, on CPSU, uh, depending on the review of Soviet-American relations, uh, exchange of views, or frankly constructive, uh, making international issues, uh, strong attention was given to issues related to European security policy.

I think he would indicate that major progress has been made and that there's a protocol that's laid in Washington that works out the details and in essence serves as a breakthrough in principle.

in the case of significant progress is made on several issues of principle in commercial relations between the broad and the broad.

Well, the other factor involved is that you don't deal with

I think, well, I think you get the credit whatever your government does, but I think it's going to be dissipated and not structured in a way that makes it look like another major presidential.

Yeah.

And you see, to start, it'll be the benchmark in which the momentum and all of the subsequent announcements in the month of October and all the solves and all the rest,

are directly attributed to you.

And I think that is important.

If that was so, I don't have, I think I'd like to have him.

There's not, so I don't think there's a chance.

This is a reverie fight.

Why doesn't he just bring Rodgers?

I couldn't have him.

That's the, you know, the last,

I don't think you should just put through that, sir.

I could tell you that.

No matter the fact, what I would like for him to do is just...

Exactly.

I don't know.

They gave us a note, which we took exception to, and this was suddenly because

Wait a minute.

There's something in there.

There's not one of them.

Henry, settle with me.

That's the part that I'm trying to make with him.

I don't want to pressure him.

That's it.

The problem I had with Roger is that he doesn't know how to do it.

Yeah, I'll get that and put it around the way that it is.

Well, what this looks like is that the Soviets handed Henry a note.

They took the initiative.

When Henry saw it, he took exception to something that

as a technical thing.

They said, we won't do this in a multilateral context.

And Harry said, no, we insist that the nations on the soil, they want to bring in every neutral and everyone else and get all that weight on their side.

And we said, no, our nation is who has troops and who soils the troops.

So the first focus would be on victory.

So he took exception and said, this can be portrayed to rise as a zone in the

Okay, they handed him this.

Neil handed it to Rod.

In fact, I'm going to send it over today.

Say, look, here's what they dumped on Henry's lap, and we want you to have this right away.

That's just good.

That's right, Jim.

Rod will advise the allies of what the Soviets did and the counter position that Henry took on it, the exceptions we took.

And this means that Rod is going to be

control.

He's handling this.

And I think he's going to be flakated on.

And where he will be upset, of course, is the fact that... No, I don't think this should be...

The fact that there has been, and I'm going to make this public, but he'll know personally that this has been a solved state agreement, and there's been a legislation agreement, and there's been a...

And I think, sir, his anger is always one of the definitely public things.

He doesn't care as much about substance.

I think you're right.

I think, too, that you're going to find him.

Every time.

But on the other hand, we've got to just take that risk.

It will, but it will also protect him.

It will protect the family.

Well...

But Henry will put it in next week.

Henry's very sensitive to the locus of the tongue.

The point is, I think that the point is that we've got to not let our play here, because Roger doesn't necessarily love his credit.

If we give Roger's credit, we're done for the state and all that sort of thing.

We know what the state can't do and what it can't do.

But could I get a bond with that other school?

Yes, and here, this man, he should tell our allies what the Soviet position was.

That's just in the vicar role.

Oh, we've taken an exception on it.

Which, there's some substance in you that would drive the allies up the wall unless we get to what Henry had to do immediately, and it was to take an exception.

That, on that one, I'm surprised he's got some thermal mucus going into that, just because of some activity in it.

He's talking to me a lot.

I'm not sure.

But we've already agreed on that.

Agreed.

No, this is not on the Greek text.

This, all this is, is so heavy.

They've agreed to announce the security documents at the end.

They've agreed to, and to announce it, but that'll happen in October, and everything's structured right.

But that's not the way that that will get it around.

It doesn't stop anymore.

I agree.

but that roger he will not know roger will not know about the date resolve the date for the day no i think him i should say this is what they proposed and then you know they've discussed it you know they've taken his own assault without security but how did the security come back now well he leads us in a way that first they gave additional then they wanted to have

preliminary discussions in December and a formal conference.

I think we're going to have to accept it.

It looks all right.

And they proposed us work out a date for a joint announcement.

And Bill is going to take care of the preliminary details and the notification of the OIs.

We're going to have to be careful not to go too far and give the Russians a head on this thing, or it'll be a disaster for

At the same time, you can't claim that family history unless there's a zombie in addition to it.

Yeah.

Well, I don't think you can.

You see, Robert, the whole big crowd is going to be changed.

They're going to get it.

I'm not going to have that over there.

It's not going to be a compliment.

And that's the other problem.

When they burst out of there, you get it.

Well, would you not agree that it would be a good idea for us first to see Rogers first?

Yes.

Well, I don't know whether you want to...

I would suggest we see you first, but then you not, and then go meet you at the Rogers.

And we could do that, and you come in late Friday night.

Okay.

It would be about 10.30.

If you're at Camp David, you could go right up there, spend the night, and then go right to Joe Rogers the next morning.

Or I might be here.

I might be here.

Or you could wait.

I'm here.

You can't make me come up there and I'll be there.

And he goes up to Joe Rogers.

And then he goes up to Joe Rogers.

And we can convince Rogers by just telling him that he's going to see him as soon as he gets back.

I don't think they have any reason to come through.

I guess you're right.

But they have all the stuff that we're trying to get to credit.

And it's just, it's just incredible to be able to get the European security officer to get any credit.

I'm not sure about that.

I have no idea.

I mean, it's like that.

It's a mixed bag.

I don't think it's...

I'm sure I have...

Anyway, what do you think of it?

I'm not sure if we have ours, and I just assume here's the way it's working out.

Well, we've changed that line after the election, but... We all don't need to make a line now that we've been waiting for you to come in.

And our interest is politically clear.

That's what everyone realizes.

I just want to mention this once more.

I just want to mention that each of you is about to realize you don't know who you are.

And read those messages.

Read no left-wing liberal columnist stuff.

It's not me.

It's all their fault.

And maybe you've got an interview with them.

Maybe they're just picking on you.

Well, it's just, my only interest now is to get, you know, just as big a mandate as you can have.

And after that, through, you know, a box and all that, you called in with Mark.

You called in and talked to him about the change.

You're a serious doctor.

But I, but I, uh...

that I think we're going to have a right-of-way and we're going to be able to form the allies and come up with the objectives.

And I believe this is one of the things that we're already working on.

We're going to have to take a knee on the conflict and try to resolve the conflict, whether our allies are going to be able to generate instructions before we were able to.

The states are going to be able to do it.

That's what you're hoping, right?

And I actually hope that it becomes back and forth with us.

And I think that's something we're going to be able to agree to have a conflict.

That's the problem.

Well, it's not in the joint communication.

No, no, no.

How do you know that?

What does he still do?

He hasn't given me exactly what he's worked out in the service.

I'm sure it's joint.

I'm sure it's in a later date, so we have some time to figure it out.

In my view, it's there.

I think he ought to kill Roger.

So we want to now talk to him.

He can give an answer on the airplane's security line.

And then we'd agree to it.

Fine.

Not bad.

But on the airplane's security line, why don't we say, why don't we fuzz it up a little and say we want to screw around with it?

So that Roger's view has got a better language.

Otherwise, Roger is going to anticipate everything we want.

That sounds funny, Jim, unless there's something in there that you've not told me.

Nixon & Haig on Vietnam War and Henry Kissinger

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Also recorded on September 14, 1972

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Nixon & Haig on Vietnam War and Henry Kissinger

AI Summary

Audio

NARA Description

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Transcript (AI-generated)

Also recorded on September 14, 1972

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