Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 778-006
Date: Friday, September 15, 1972 at 10:01 AM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); McConaughy, Walter P.; Haig, Alexander M., Jr.; White House photographer
Recording device: Oval Office
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/778-006

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:02] Hi there, how are you?
[0:03] It's a great privilege to have you again.
[0:07] I see you after 14 months.
[0:09] Yeah, it's about 15, I'm off.
[0:10] 14 months.
[0:12] Well, what's the matter?
[0:13] I said, I was two weeks before July 15th.
[0:16] And I called and they said it was June 1st.
[0:19] And looking back, I can see, Mr. President, you gave me some pretty good audience.
[0:27] You told me that.
[0:40] If I could reconcile and keep up that confidence and morale, I'd have a lot to work with.
[0:45] There'd be no change in our essential policy toward Taiwan.
[0:49] The mutual defense treaty would be maintained, so I'd have something to work with.
[0:53] So, with the benefit of hindsight, I'd say you gave me some pretty broad insight.
[0:58] Although, of course, my assumption then was that you had in mind more the relaxation rate, trade and travel.
[1:15] Tell me, how is, uh, how is, uh, what is the feeling in the government circles now?
[1:23] They, uh, they, uh, the GMO now, it's old.
[1:26] He'll, uh, he'll be 85, and I hope the next month, I'll have him recovered from his, uh, unfortunately, he hasn't fully recovered.
[1:34] He's, he's slowly complexing.
[1:36] There's pretty serious bronchial involvement he has.
[1:40] He did have, but, uh, he's still very, you know, the doctors
[1:46] We'll leave it covered.
[2:20] But still phenomenal.
[2:22] I don't think he has any chronic illness, no sign of cancer, of heart disease, anything like that.
[2:30] It's just this acute bronchial infection, which I believe the doctors are getting under control, but it has been.
[2:49] It's practically just a race.
[2:50] It shouldn't be 75 feet, six or seven.
[2:51] I guess that's about it.
[2:53] It needs to weigh quite a bit more than that.
[2:57] Quite a remarkable group of men, or two or three.
[3:00] They're in how long they lasted.
[3:03] There was Churchill, and of course Eisenhower, and de Gaulle, and Ednauer, and I guess you can kill you.
[3:13] I mean, who, of course, was afterwards.
[3:14] But all these men I've seen, they were very old.
[3:18] Churchill had a stroke.
[3:19] He was sharp.
[3:20] He knew what was going on.
[3:21] And then the others were just, man, head and arm.
[3:27] They all were good to the last.
[3:29] And Eisenhower was good to the last.
[3:32] And here this fellow was just amazing.
[3:37] I guess, man, it's easy to be the most terrible of all.
[3:49] But to have an even real physical charm as she has at the age of 70 is something.
[3:58] I'd say she's just as lovely and just as engaging and charming as she was the last time you saw her.
[4:14] And to turn on them and think of that period of the World War.
[4:18] When they were sitting in the Great Councils, you could see how much heat on them.
[4:22] Here they are sitting on Taiwan.
[4:24] Taiwan, of course, is more than three-fourths of the miserable countries that make up the U.N.
[4:30] But on the other hand, they know what they are and what they could be.
[4:35] God, they must burn their tails.
[4:38] It's just too bad.
[4:39] Too bad.
[4:42] Well, I think you've just got to give them the usual reassurances that we're caught in a tough battle.
[4:51] I mean, they were perhaps like, you can't say they're Japanese.
[4:58] I mean, you do this, you do that, and you try.
[4:59] It just doesn't work.
[5:00] We worked on it.
[5:01] We worked on it.
[5:01] We worked on it.
[5:02] We worked on it.
[5:02] We worked on it.
[5:05] We worked on it.
[5:11] Not the old, I mean, this would never happen to me.
[5:14] This is a little terrier.
[5:18] He's running around.
[5:33] That's what you have here, I assume.
[5:34] The other thing that's done, which the J-Law, who we really make some world terms,
[5:41] He said it has very significantly changed the world balance of power, as you know.
[5:49] It's had one hell of an effect on the Russians.
[5:52] He may see it differently than others, but that's been an enormous event.
[5:57] As far as people understand, he still has this profound distrust of the Russians.
[6:01] He's always trying to show them.
[6:13] And they're very appreciative of the fact that we have not gone anything like this far as the Japanese and other friends, former friends of theirs have gone.
[6:26] They do look to us in a lot of ways to help them out, keep some precedence in the National Financial Institutions.
[6:34] All of us are not directing them to not take a strong position on that.
[6:39] They don't have anything.
[6:44] I think it will.
[6:46] I don't.
[7:21] and with country after country, serving relations with them.
[7:25] If labor went to Australia, I think the next day the Australians would break the currency and establish relations with the mainland.
[7:35] Most of Latin America
[7:54] Thailand seems to be wavering a little.
[7:56] Joe and I went all out to roll out the red carpet for that ping pong team recently.
[8:04] So we're seeing the diplomatic war that has shrunk month by month, and it's difficult for them to get in any national conference.
[8:15] We've had a problem with our endangered species conference, our own conference right here in Washington.
[8:21] We wanted them there, we invited them, but it turned out that
[8:25] of the critical countries, including the African countries, the home of most of these endangered species, wouldn't even come if the Republic of China showed up.
[8:33] That's the dilemma we're up against.
[8:38] One way or another, I think we've got to try to prevent that total isolation.
[8:42] But they're showing a lot of heart.
[8:44] They wouldn't give up even if they are totally isolated, except for us.
[8:48] They're still trying to make a go of it.
[8:50] In a lot of ways, they are.
[8:57] exports for the first six months of this year are up 38% over the same period of last year.
[9:06] They're showing great resourcefulness in finding ways of increasing trade, even with countries that have broken with them.
[9:12] Canada is one example.
[9:14] Canada was one of the first to break this wave.
[9:17] They've increased that trade substantially with Canada.
[9:21] And that trade with Western Europe is going to happen, even though Belgium broke with them.
[9:25] It was hard to turn it back in.
[9:50] economic development on a major scale without inflation.
[9:54] I've told them once or twice, half in jest, that I wish they could teach us something about that.
[9:59] Of course, the secret, though, is that they've got a disciplined labor force that doesn't strike and works like jury.
[10:09] Gradually, their benefits are increasing, but not head over heels.
[10:14] It's on a very controlled basis.
[10:28] It takes, I guess, in a sense, a sort of semi-authoritarian society to put that over.
[10:35] It just couldn't be done here the way they do it.
[10:39] They have all strikes, for instance.
[10:44] But it works for them.
[10:46] Tsang Chin-po, I think, is doing very well.
[11:03] And he would be the titular head of the government to, if anything, come to the GMO during the present six-year term.
[11:11] But even during that period, although he'd be the front man, he would have some real power and status, too, because he's a very considerable man in his own right, you know, a man of real stature.
[11:33] time in fiscal matters.
[11:35] So he still has a real substantive role and the titular role to be the front man.
[11:44] But Chang Ching-po has all the reins of power and he would be running things, but in close concert with Xi Jinping, they get along very well.
[11:54] So I think there'd be continuity and stability if President Chang's time should come soon.
[12:01] I don't anticipate that
[12:05] And it's a great feeling of warmth for you as the chief of our state, and personally for you and Mr. Nixon, and President and Mrs. Chalmers.
[12:23] Last time I saw him, which was some months ago, I've been in this country since late July, but he reiterated in warmest terms how I regard
[12:36] The tragedy is that we have to be here when these historical forces work against us because we were waiting to do it otherwise it would be done.
[12:51] You can see where we are.
[12:53] And because from a personal standpoint, they're among the great people in the world.
[13:01] And they've been personal.
[13:11] You did the right thing as one of the great creative masters
[13:54] of your policy is that it is really respectful of the domestic criticism of our China policy.
[14:03] It just hasn't been...
[14:25] New York Times has taped it off on criticism.
[14:31] Western Post even.
[14:32] They put a cover on that.
[14:34] That's something.
[14:35] I believe they see that.
[14:39] And my good access to the warmth which I've received and just a close personal empathy is unchanged, as you recall in all this.
[14:51] Well, we are.
[14:52] I take no credit for that.
[15:00] bitter pill because they know how I feel about the folks that are personally in their philosophy of government.
[15:10] But we had to do this for very basic national security reasons.
[15:17] And if you could just continue to reassure them, that's a tough post.
[15:30] on the average for an investor to stay at one post, but if you want me there a while longer, I'm certainly willing to stay a while longer.
[15:41] Yeah, you can plan to stay a while longer, because it wouldn't change anything now that we have an accident.
[15:50] You're one of the few people in the Forest Service they trust, and with good reason.
[15:56] Well, I find it's even better.
[16:00] They know that I haven't gone native there.
[16:05] It goes without saying, it's my own country, first, last, and always.
[16:23] Well, we should, well, thank you.
[16:24] They're great people.
[16:27] They're great people.
[16:29] Yeah.
[16:33] I'm going back to my shelter.
[16:37] I miss you.
[16:37] I miss you.
[16:39] I miss you.
[16:40] I miss you.
[16:42] I miss you.
[16:43] I miss you.
[16:44] I miss you.
[16:45] I miss you.
[16:46] I miss you.
[17:03] Well, you can tell the captain of that ship.
[17:07] I took President Wilson from San Francisco to Numea to the Caledonia in 1943.
[17:15] That's right.
[17:15] Well, well.
[17:16] We had 3,000 on that.
[17:18] And I went over as a lieutenant to the junior grade officer to the Numea to the Caledonia.
[17:29] President Wilson, how's that?
[17:30] All right then.
[17:37] And so that's for you and the gracious lady.
[17:40] She never forgets your kindness in saying that she bears a slave.
[17:44] I remember this.
[17:46] She really cherishes that conviction on your part.
[17:52] She's a great person.
[17:54] And enjoy that 18 days.
[17:55] Obviously, you don't get seasick.
[17:58] That doesn't matter.