{"conversationCode":"781-021","tapeNumber":781,"conversationNumber":21,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-781-021","startDateTime":"1972-09-18T16:52:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-09-18T17:00:00.000Z","startDate":"18-Sep-1972","startTime":"12:52 PM","endDate":"18-Sep-1972","endTime":"1:00 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"estimated","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Butterfield, Alexander P.;","description":"On September 18, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:52 pm and 1:00 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 781-021 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"OVAL","recordingDevice":"Oval Office","latitudeEstimated":38.8974,"longitudeEstimated":-77.0374,"chronCode":4,"chronRelease":"Fourth Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"10-Dec-2003","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 781-21\n\nDate: September 18, 1972\nTime: Unknown between 12:52 pm and 1:00 pm\nLocation: Oval Office\n\nThe President met with Stephen B. Bull.\n\n             The President's forthcoming meeting\n                 -Hugh Scott\n                 -Robert P. Griffin\n                 -Leslie C. Arends\n                 -Gerald R. Ford\n                 -Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger\n                 -John D. Ehrlichman\n                 -William E. Timmons\n                 -Kenneth W. Cole\n                 -Luncheon\n                     -Number of attendees\n\n                 -Charles W. Colson\n                 -Foreign policy\n                 -Gen. John Lavelle hearings\n                     -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.\n                     -Henry A. Kissinger\n                 -Political connotation\n                     -Bryce N. Harlow\n\nButterfield left at an unknown time before 1:00 pm.","filename":["781-021.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Butterfield, Alexander P."],"prevCode":"781-020","nextCode":"781-022","transcript":[{"start":1.22,"end":3.76,"text":"Just on the thing, Mark?"},{"start":3.78,"end":5.68,"text":"No, it's not."},{"start":6.08,"end":9.3,"text":"Who all will be there tomorrow?"},{"start":9.58,"end":12.04,"text":"Tomorrow's the four leaders."},{"start":29.64,"end":31.32,"text":"Scott Griffin-Aaronson, Ford."},{"start":31.34,"end":34.48,"text":"Scott Griffin-Aaronson, Ford."},{"start":36.14,"end":37.14,"text":"Weinberger Ehrlichman."},{"start":38.6,"end":39.56,"text":"Timmons Cole."},{"start":41.08,"end":41.48,"text":"Ford."},{"start":42,"end":42.8,"text":"Ford, bless you."},{"start":65.97,"end":66.65,"text":"earlier than I need."},{"start":66.67,"end":67.82,"text":"I mean, you should have one, but you have ten."},{"start":67.84,"end":70.77,"text":"I don't care who you ask."},{"start":72.89,"end":73.97,"text":"See if they really want another."},{"start":106.72,"end":108.9,"text":"They're not going to have anything in the Board of Ops hearing."},{"start":109.64,"end":121.1,"text":"I wanted to get a hold of them and see if they think they ought to have somebody there because of the LaBelle hearings."},{"start":121.98,"end":122.86,"text":"Then he could come."},{"start":123.74,"end":125.24,"text":"I'd have him rather than Henry."},{"start":125.4,"end":127.62,"text":"I used to bother him with this."},{"start":127.64,"end":131.95,"text":"Or the other possibility of, you know, tricking him, of being too good."},{"start":134.03,"end":137.15,"text":"see if they want to have a horrible situation."},{"start":137.17,"end":140.14,"text":"So yeah, political connotation."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon met with Alexander P. Butterfield to coordinate a forthcoming luncheon with congressional leadership, including Hugh Scott, Robert Griffin, Leslie Arends, and Gerald Ford. The discussion centered on managing the political implications of the ongoing General John Lavelle hearings and determining which administration officials, such as Alexander Haig or Henry Kissinger, should attend to address them. Nixon directed staff to assess whether legislative leaders required additional administration presence to navigate the potential political fallout from the hearings.","topics":["Congressional Relations","General John Lavelle","White House Staffing","Political Strategy","Congressional Hearings"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-07T23:31:53.198Z"},"topicSlugs":["congressional-relations","general-john-lavelle","white-house-staffing","political-strategy","congressional-hearings"],"audioDurationSec":145,"audioFiles":[{"file":"781-021.mp3","bytes":3492675,"durationSec":145.45,"bitrate":192098,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:57.945Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:44:32.285Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/781-021.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/781-021","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/781/conversation-781-021","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}