Nixon White House Tapes ›Tape 781 › Conversation 781-022

Nixon & Jackson on SALT and U.S.-Soviet relations

Monday, September 18, 1972 · 1:00 PM–1:09 PM ET · Oval Office ·9 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Jackson, Henry M. ("Scoop")Conversation781-022 onTape 781StartMonday, September 18, 1972 at 1:00 PMEndMonday, September 18, 1972 at 1:09 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 781-022 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Senator Henry M. Jackson met to discuss legislative strategy regarding U.S.-Soviet relations and the pursuit of a supersonic transport (SST) program. The two leaders strategized on how to manage the House Foreign Affairs Committee to ensure support for SALT Phase II and potential Mutual and Balanced Force Reductions (MBFR). Additionally, Nixon solicited Jackson's long-term cooperation in finding a way to revive the American SST project following the 1972 election, arguing that current staff attitudes and the abandonment of the project were strategically shortsighted.

Audio

Download MP3 · 12.0 MB

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

Download transcript (.txt) ·JSON data · Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).

Yeah, I guess one of the things, there were two things, one personal and one congressional.
First, my daughter was most grateful for how nice you were to her when she was up at Seattle.
We always had to stand up for our gals.
The other thing is that
just right along as far as we're concerned, and will enormously help us in the phase two.
We took, we are taking, as you might imagine, a very hard and realistic line on this.
Well, absolutely, and that was huge.
Obviously, we pointed this out.
Because the phase two is more difficult than phase one.
Because phase two is going to go to the very heart of the whole deal.
And also, Scoop, when we get the MPFR, that one, of course, the Europeans are all panting for it.
But I haven't yet received any proposal which doesn't weaken us against them.
Are they?
All right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Who needs to be talked to on the House side?
Yeah.
We can certainly, we can control the Republican leadership.
I just tell them, let Aaron, Aaron, he's probably on that committee.
All right.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
He's great.
Great.
Well, you know, he's a rock.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, there was the thing at the beginning when they had that hassle and they tried to say that, you know, we weren't getting the right signals and all that stuff.
Of course, we knew exactly what was going on, but we had to
on the House thing.
How about the Senate conference?
Oh, oh.
Fine.
Right, right, right, right.
So if you have a conference, I got it.
Well, I'll just tell our people then to work on Morgan and his group and avoid a conflict.
Okay, I've got the signal.
I'll put it to them.
Thank you.
Well, we're trying to do our best.
Matter of fact, I was...
Because, uh, we, uh, you know, have always been actually, you know, uh, uh, it's definitely, I, I have one other point that I wanted to raise with you that, uh, that is for the future.
Uh, and this is so, so, uh, I've been raising hell around here.
I don't know if I can do anything, but I know people that we can sit by, even though it's far down the pipe.
after this election and not go forward with an SSG.
I don't think we can.
I don't want to raise any hopes for people to follow the press.
But let me say this.
When I see what the Russians are doing, when I see what the French are doing, even though we know they're far away and all that sort of thing.
But if we're going to do it, I just think that this is one time.
And I think if you, I just feel that we've got to find a way to relight that.
If you've got any ideas after the election, I'd like to hear them, because I think one of the greatest mistakes we have made was to drop out of that race.
At least that's my feeling.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What do you mean, the staff?
Well, basically, the point is, yeah, they aren't there, for God's sakes, to meet with the, I mean, the point is that they would be cutting Johnson's throat if he were here.
They would be cutting Truman's throat.
Yeah.
It disarmed the United States in a lot of ways, which, of course, we can't do.
You know, one thing I've got to say is that one guy that was doing a superb job was George Mayo.
Gee, he was just cutting the hell out of me.
But, but,
he understands it he understands it you know he uh i of course yeah well another thing he knows what's the level of what's uh what's up here and he's talking george shawson boy he's got chapter verse and these things and you know it's it's it's not a question of basic loyalty it's a question of just naive attitudes about this stuff and if any of the members believe you remember talking
They'll send us a hydrofoil, and I'll give them a catalog and all that.
But then things aren't determined on the basis of friendship with such people.
As you know, these other policies say, hell, they're determined on the basis of power.
It depends on who's going to do who then.
That's all.
Oh.
Yeah.
He says it's really terrible.
See, and I've got to keep our people from busting out, but it's a very weird right now, but if you could privately do some thinking on the SSP thing, I'm going to, I'm going to read like that.
I told George Shultz and I told Weinberger and Ervin, and I said, I'm going to do it.
Of course, I don't need to convince Ervin.
He was for it anyway.
But the point is, from the standpoint of the United States,
They're getting out of the business.
It's just foolish.
Yeah.
Right?

NARA Description

On September 18, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry M. ("Scoop") Jackson met in the Oval Office of the White House from 1:00 pm to 1:09 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 781-022 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 781-22

Date: September 18, 1972
Time: 1:00 pm - 1:09 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President talked with Henry M. (“Scoop”) Jackson.

             Tricia Nixon Cox's trip to Seattle, Washington

             US-Soviet Union relations
                -Negotiations
                     -Henry A. Kissinger
                -Interim agreement
                     -Startegic Arms limitation Talks [SALT]
                          -Phase II
                              -Administration position
                -Mutual and Balanced Force Reductions [MBFR]
                -House of Representatives
                     -Dr. Thomas E. (“Doc”) Morgan
                     -Republicans
                          -Leslie C. Arends
                     -Foreign affairs committee
                          -William S. Mailliard
                     -Senate conferees
                     -Possible administration actions
                          -Morgan
                              -Conference

                                         (rev. Oct-06)

            The President’s schedule
                -Washington

            Supersonic Transport [SST]
                -The President’s view
                    -1972 election
                -Boeing Co.
                -Soviet Union
                -France
                -The President’s view
                -White House staff
                    -Lyndon B. Johnson’s administration
                    -Harry S. Truman’s administration
                    -George Meany
                         -George P. Shultz

            US-Soviet union relations
               -Leonid I. Brezhnev
                   -Kissinger
               -Gifts
                   -Hydrofoil
                   -Cadillac
               -Power

            SST
                  -Shultz
                  -Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberg
                  -John D. Ehrlichman
                  -The President’s view
                  -1972 Olympics

Also recorded on September 18, 1972

  • 781-018 12:51 PM · 22 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at 12:51 pm.
  • 781-019 12:51 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at 12:51 pm.
  • 781-020 12:51 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Capt. Surayute Nivasabute met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:51 pm to 12:52 pm.
  • 781-021 12:52 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:52 pm and 1:00 pm.
  • 781-023 1:09 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at 1:09 pm.
  • 781-024 1:09 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at 1:09 pm.
  • 781-025 1:10 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and William E. Timmons met in the Oval Office of the White House from 1:10 pm to 1:12 pm.
  • 781-026 1:12 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 1:12 pm and 1:25 pm.

All 44 conversations from September 18, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 781-022, September 18, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/781-022 (accessed September 18, 2026).