Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 786 › Conversation 786-011
Nixon, Haldeman & Bull on Personnel management and Budget cuts
Monday, September 25, 1972 · 10:48 AM–11:00 AM ET · Oval Office · 5 min
AI Summary
President Nixon, H.R. Haldeman, and Stephen Bull discussed personnel management and potential budget cuts for various government agencies. The President expressed a desire to significantly reduce the budgets of policy-creating agencies, such as the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency, by 50% through attrition rather than layoffs. They also touched upon personnel management within the White House itself, specifically regarding lower-level staff like stenographers and waiters, contrasting it with cuts at higher levels.
- Personnel management
- Budget cuts
- Arms Control and Disarmament Agency
- Policy creation agencies
- Operating agencies
- White House staff
- Attrition
- Government agencies
Audio
Transcript (AI-generated)
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How do you think of the, uh...
The election they had.
I would certainly, it's a new one, it's what it holds, that's fine.
I would certainly know, be sure to go to the rest of these people who've done this goddamn thing.
I mean, that's something that, frankly, with Eisenhower, Bob, they did it one time, and I remember the sons of bitches didn't come in, they never got a picture.
You know what I mean?
You can do them all here.
You could have Tyler in every morning for breakfast and every other night for dinner and he'd say, why don't you ever have me for lunch?
That's just John's stock and trade.
It's his way of working.
It's to keep the kind of man that he is.
Keep the medieval treasure.
But you also do one other thing.
In the study of agencies and so forth,
There are a lot of little things that are stuck in the cracks that we don't know about that I want the boys to get at.
One is the emergency control agency, which is Jackson Creek.
I told you.
And that budget, that is $9 million.
So there's a lot of people.
First, I've got to know how many people there, and I really want to know, are appointed by me or the Secretary of State or the Acting Director.
In other words, how many are subject to
Second, then it's like the CIA, that none are subject to change.
Then what we do is we, of course, will cut the son of a bitch in question right down to the nut and not allow any jobs to be built and so forth and so on.
What I have in mind is that a number of these agencies like that, we can have it double-stranded.
We can have it delivered.
We can have it, say, at 50%.
say we want to cut a 50% by, not by ripping, but by simply not replacing.
And then where it's like, maybe not Social Security checks, we don't have any checks.
See my point?
We know there are differences.
Where there's a curve, in other words, where it's a think tank, basically, a policy-creating thing, there should be a 50% cut.
Cut the son of a bitch to the heart.
Where it's basically an operating agency.
then maybe it requires a few more.
Although even there, I think if you cut down some of them, they do while they're outlawed there, you can make efficiency use.
Our problem is, at the moment, you've ordered the cups, and I noticed this when we were at Weyberg's, and what happens is that the vacancy hits,
cut the operation, and those people that are on the creative side, we want to get the, and it's the creative side that we want to cut.
So, if you could start with that, that would be helpful.
What do you think?
Absolutely.
That is what I'm talking about.
You think he understands your...
Yeah, but I think we've got to end this.
You see, look, every now and then our department, we've got all the other people that grab your meeting.
Well, here's what you would do in the White House.
I can assure you, you would say what they would do.
They'd say, well, we'll cut the numbers, the monitors, and the number of the waiters.
And Matt says, that doesn't matter.
You may need more monitors or more waiters, but they'll leave a lot of people at the higher levels.
Right.
Right, right, right.
NARA Description
On September 25, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:48 am to 11:00 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 786-011 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 786-11
Date: September 25, 1972
Time: 10:48 am - 11:00 am
Location: Oval Office
The President met with H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman at 10:48 am.
Haldeman’s schedule
-Staff meeting
The President's schedule
-Photograph opportunities
-Robert J. Dole
-Dwight D. Eisenhower
-John G. Tower
-Texas
-Possible ambassadorship
*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 6m 50s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
*****************************************************************
Personnel management
-Arms Control and Disarmament Agency [ACDA]
-Henry M. (“Scoop”) Jackson
-Budget
-Appointments
-The President’s Secretary of State, director
Central Intelligence Agency [CIA]
-Budget cuts
-Policy on cuts
-Reductions in Force [RIFs]
-Social Security check makers
-Policy creating agencies
-Operating agency
-Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger
-Agency heads
-Operating branches
Stephen B. bull entered at an unknown time after 10:48 am.
The President’s schedule
Bull left at an unknown time before 11:00 am.
Personnel management
-Policy on White House cuts
-Stenographers, waiters in mess hall
-Upper level
Haldeman left at 11:00 am.Also recorded on September 25, 1972
- 786-005 9:56 AM · 13 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:56 am to 10:10 am.
- 786-006 10:10 AM · 22 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 10:10 am and 10:27 am.
- 786-007 10:10 AM · 25 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 10:10 am and 10:27 am.
- 786-008 10:10 AM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 10:10 am and 10:27 am.
- 786-009 10:27 AM · 12 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:27 am to 10:44 am.
- 786-010 10:44 AM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 10:44 am and 10:48 am.
- 786-012 11:47 AM · 17 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 11:47 am and 11:49 am.
- 786-013 11:49 AM · 9 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Michael N. Spirtos, William P. Tsaffaras, William G. Chirgotis, Gustav Coffinas, George J. Leber, Thomas C. Korologos, S. Steven Karalekas, Stephen B. Bull, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:49 am to 11:58 am.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 786-011, September 25, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/786-011 (accessed October 12, 2026).